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 | nhnewt
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2002-03-14 36326
I am looking for the least expensive tractor to do the following: Clear snow on 200' driveway, mow 2-3 acres - some slopes 3:1 or steeper, landscape a new large yard, dig for electric and water lines in sandy loam soil. I would appreciate input on minimum tractor requirements.
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-14 36329
For all except the trenching, I'd look for a used Kubota Compact. Minumum of 16 HP at the PTO. I'm saying Kubota because they have a lower center of gravity. Definitely want a FEL with the machine.(I own a John Deere 670...I have similar requirements to you...but I got a really good deal on the tractor)
As far as trenching....rent a dedicated machine for this when you need it (just plan it so you can do all your trenching work at one time. If you buy a tractor that can handle a trencher, it'll be too much equipment (read $$$'s) for your other needs. Also, when I mention trencher, I'm assuming you are just going to lay water lines (copper or PVC) and electrical lines. Waste lines would need a backhoe. ....
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| nhnewt
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2002-03-14 36331
Thanks for the advise. The only thing is that I love the idea of having a small hoe. Not just for the utility work I need to do, but also for digging around stumps, holes for trees, maybe even setting stones in a stone wall (Lifting with a hoe is against the rules I know, but it comes in handy sometimes. Is the cost of the BH the limiting factor? Or is it that a much bigger machine would be needed? ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-14 36332
Well, you asked for the least expensive tractor. Adding a backhoe is adding dollars.
I don't have a 'hoe for my 670. You can get them, but I've no need for one. And they make the tractor very top heavy. Don't get me wrong, there are projects for which I could use a hoe, but not enough to justify the added expense. Cheaper, over the long term, to rent or contract out.
I bought my tractor to mow and snow plow primarily. A bigger lawn tractor could easily do the mowing. A smaller plow hooked up to my pick up could have done the snow pushing (maybe...we didn't get much this year, but PA gets some whoppers every few years!). But the combination of work, plus the versatility of the tractor (plus..I wanted one!) made the Deere the way to go...
My first choice, for my needs, was a Kubota BX2200. Just couldn't go the 12K dollars, unless I wanted the added expense of a divorce!
Try http://www.machinefinder.com for prices. See what you can afford and what most suits your needs. ....
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| nhnewt
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2002-03-14 36337
Thanks for the input. I may be building a house soon, and I almost have the cost of a tractor justified (in my own mind), by taking out the cost of some of the site work I would have to pay someone to do. I would rather not hear any arguments the other way, because I have always dreamed about owning a tractor. If anyone could offer more input as to which model would best suit my needs, I am open to suggestions. From what I have read here, I am thinking a B series since I need a back hoe also. Any thoughts? ....
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| Jason F
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2002-03-14 36339
I have a b2710 and love it. 27 HP engine, can take a 7.5 foot hoe and a 60 ' loader. can use a 5 foot bruch hog or mower. I have about 70 hours on it and it is great...... ....
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| nhnewt
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2002-03-14 36340
Jason, sounds like the B series may be what I am after. How are they when it comes to mowing both lawn and field? ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-15 36380
Hey nhnewt. I have a Kubota B7500 with hydro tranny, FEL, 54" belly mower, and R4 treads. Tractor has 21 hp and 16 at the PTO.
I have had the tractor about 1.5 years, and right now the hour meter is at 181 hrs... and so far it's never let me down. I don't have a hoe for it, and am not sure I would bother getting one... tractor seems awful small for that type of digging, although in sandy soil I suppose it would work quite well.
I have pulled a 5' box scraper, actually did that yesterday for about 6 hours, and it lugs right along even when the box gets full and starts pushing dirt against the rear tires. Always seem to run out of traction before I run out of engine power.
Also used a rear tiller on it, but can't remember what size, 48" I think... definitely not smaller than that, and it ran it fine too.
SNOW: my driveway is only about 100' or so, and I can't justify buying a plow or blower for such a small area, so I just move snow around with the FEL. Works pretty good.
TIRES: opted for the R4 industrial treads as kind of a "middle ground" between turf and ag... I am happy with the choice, but I do have to be careful mowing when it's wet to not make sharp turns... of course even turf tires will scuff a little on a sharp turn in wet grass. And as far as mowing goes, it's hard to even compare it to what I used to mow with... a little craftsman garden tractor... it's smoother, quieter, and more than twice as fast.
I originally wanted a gear tranny until I drove a hydro, and now, I doubt I would ever own a gear drive tractor. The hydro is the best thing since sliced bread if you ask me. All in all I would have to say that it is the best purchase I have ever made. It will more than pay for itself over the course of the 5 years of payments, and I will probably have the tractor until I retire.
It's a rugged built little piece of machinery, and I am not afraid to USE it and USE it hard. One possible drawback is hydraulic strength... seems like the loader could have a little bit more umph, but then again if it had any more folks would probably be flipping B7500's over left and right. I suppose I would have bought a B2410 or a B2710 if I wanted to spend more money, but now I am glad I didn't as the B7500 suits my needs just fine.
Sorry this was so long, hope I helped a bit. One more thing, it was my dream to own one too, and the reality of owning one is better than I had ever dreamed... sounds cheesy, but it's true.:) ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-15 36381
Duane, that was a great post!!!
The B7500 was the tractor that put me on the search initially. An acquaintance of mine had borrowed one from his father for a bit of work.
My 670 is a gear tractor. They're OK, but mine is a single stage clutch (PTO stops when you depress the clutch). I'd rather have had the dual stage clutch or hydro. But the JD 670 I've got was such a nice machine for the price...couldn't turn it down. ....
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| nhnewt
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2002-03-16 36402
Great input!! Are you in sales? Well, I went up to a dealer and played around on a B7500 today. I tried out the backhoe on one, and it convinced me not to invest in a new one. $6k they wanted for the hoe, and it just wasnt fast enough for me to spend that much money. Roy, I see what you were saying. I will rent a small crawler hoe when I need to trench for water. The next decision to make is Hydo or stick? I didnt mind clutching it, but I can see how the Hydro would be slick. ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-16 36404
Personally, I'd go for the Hydro. It'll cost you more..but I reckon it's worth it.
Now, except for about 15 minutes on the B7500 I mentioned in an earlier post, I'd never driven HST (well, my Wheel Horse was a hydro, if that counts).
The HST will cause a minor (1-2 HP) power loss, but not having to stop, clutch, shift is value added.
Don't get me wrong, I love my little 670 (can ya really love a piece of equipment??), but the honeymoon is over. I'm noting things that I wouldn't do, if I had it to do over again. I did drive a few HST models in the dealers' lots...but that's not using the machine.
However, she's (she??) mine (check out the pic...wifey's on the seat) and she'll last me for quite a while to come.
Good luck in your final decision!! ....
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| nhnewt
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2002-03-16 36406
Nice ride, I always like the look of a deere. The more I read and learn, the more it sounds like hydro is the way to go. The extra 2K is just hard to swallow. The sales guy was definitely not pushy, but he did say no one ever comes back wishing they had bought a gear tranny! I have a little time before I need to decide. Maybe I'll research the archives on this one. ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-16 36411
Roy, it is true that a hydro tranny is not quite as effecient as a gear tranny, and that you lose a hp or 2 over a gear, but remember this: when running a pto implement like a rear tiller, the operator has the ability to fine tune the ground speed if the implement starts bogging the engine. For example, lets say your tilling along when the soil sarts getting a little damp, and the engine starts to bog, well, with a hydro you simply just let up on the pedal a little to slow your ground speed and voila... engine tachs back up. With a gear tranny, you might find yourself either going too slow most of the time, or going too fast and bogging the engine more than you would like. A hydro, though less effecient in terms of hp input/output, can often make up for that one or 2 hp loss with it's infinite adjustability.
This is just my two cents again, but honestly nhnewt, if you can somehow figure out a way to swallow the extra 2 grand for the hydro you won't ever regret it... The hydro benefits you by giving you a live pto... keeps your implement running when you stop the tractor. Not to mention it makes loader work, and just about any other type of tractor work, a little easier. Don't get me wrong, having a gear tranny doesn't limit the things you can do with your tractor... it just doesn't allow you to do things as comfortably. Sort of like the difference between driving a luxury sedan and an ordinary passenger car... both get you from point a to point b.
One more point. Whichever tractor you decide to buy, it's possible you'll have it long enough to give to your kids someday. I have heard these tractors will run 4000 to 6000 hours before they need an overhaul. Sometimes a bitshorter or longer depending on how they are used. That's a hell of alot of hours considering you probably won't put 100 hrs per year on it. Do the math... that's 40 to 60 years. With that in mind, the extra 2k doesn't seem like all that bad of an investment.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask; I'd love to help. And no, I am not in sales... right now I am an unemployed tool and die maker, but if you know anyone who needs a salesman... lol :) And by the way Roy, we're MEN... of course we can love a piece of equipment! ;) ....
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| NHNEWT
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2002-03-18 36472
Wow, this board is a great way to learn. The combined knowledge is invaluable. Now my next question is what size tractor I will need. If I can seal the deal on this property, I will have about 2000 cy of material to spread around. I will probably hire someone to strip the topsoil for me, but I would like to use a tractor to backfill, spread out the fill and what not. Am I asking too much of a B7500? Would I be better off with more horsepower? the way I see it, either I get a smaller tractor to handle the mowing, snow removal, and light landscaping, while renting a larger peice of machinery to do the bulk work, or I get a larger tractor, take a little longer to do the construction work, and hopefully end up with a machine that is not too big for my 3 acres of dry land.
Any input from those who have tackled major earth moving would be appreciated. ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-18 36475
You've actually got two choices:
Buy a bigger machine now, do the heavy work, then sell or trade for a smaller machine for your day to day operations.
I think you'd lose money on that, if it's the way you go.
Buy the smaller machine (B7500, JD 4100 or maybe a New Holland TC Boomer..or a used machine) that will be suitable for your long term requirements. This is the way I would go...
NHNewt, you know your budget and your goals for a tractor. With 2-3 acres and about 200' of drive way, you're not going to need a real big tractor.
So, you seem most interested in the B7500. Reckon that's the one you'll end up buying (although if you've NOT looked at the JD 4100 or New Holland Boomer series, you ought to look at them before you buy the Kubota). ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-18 36479
I would agree with Roy, you will probably end up buying the B7500. I have 4 acres, 3 of which I mow, and it's the perfect size for me. Heck I wouldn't be afraid to take care of 10 or 15 acres with it.
As far as size goes, don't be afraid to step up to any of the bigger B series tractors if your budget allows. I don't really think any of them would be too big for you. You would notice a great deal of increased loader strength with the bigger B series tractors, but I reckon you wouldn't notice too much in mowing times... all the B series tractors can handle a 60" mower deck. ALot of people have found that you can do basically the same thing with a smaller tractor, it just takes a little longer.
I have done alot of loader work that is probably similar to what you are going to be doing... Moving loose materials that were piled up by a larger peice of equipment. I once moved 54 ton of fill in under an hour. Granted I didn't have to move it very far, but that's still quite a bit of dirt. I am even able to dig pits to bury rocks and debris with the loader. My soil here is very sandy, and with relative ease I can scrape up the topsoil and dig a ramp down into the ground 5' or 6' deep at the end.
To sum it up, I would tell you to buy the biggest B series tractor that you WANT to afford. None of the B series in my opinion would be "too big," (except maybe the 2910) and the extra umph would be a nice luxury from time to time. On the other hand, you probably don't NEED a bigger tractor and I would warn you that you shouldn't think that you would be dissapointed with a B7500... from what you describe you will be doing, it sounds to me like it would be the perfect choice especially if you want to save some dough and get that house done a little quicker. Hope I have helped. Feel free to ask more questions if you need.
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| JimTN
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2002-03-18 36481
I just bought a Kubota B2410 HSD with FEL and Befco 5 foot flail mower. Did quite a bit of research before making my selection. Looked at the brands mentioned in previous posts. Also considered comments from this forum and Machinery Forum.
My advice - I picked Kubota (you compare for yourself); selected B2410 over B7500 for slightly more horsepower and position control on 3ph while staying with virtually the same size overall. B2710 is larger, heavier and more power for very little more money. B2710 is just too big for me. Carefully compare the specs of the tractors you consider. Select the one that best fits you now and your best estimate of your future uses. You will be wise to rent the backhoe or trencher when needed.
Like some others, I too do not really need all the tractor that I bought BUT I wanted it. At 69 I can claim 'second childhood' and buy my own toy. I expect my son or grandson will use it before it wears out. Therefore a reasonable "investment".
Best of luck with whichever you choose. ....
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| NHNEWT
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2002-03-19 36488
To put my earth moving into perspective, I calculate that I will need 2000 cy of material to get my leech field built and the house backfilled. At 1.5 ton/cy, that translates into about 3000 ton of material. Regardless of which model I purchase, the biggest factor will be how close can I get the fill dumped to its final position. I am thinking that based on my finial needs, I would stick to a B2710 or smaller. If I go new, probably be a 2410 or 7500. If I found a good condition used 2710, I would consider it.
As with most decisions in my life, this one will probably be based on my mood at the time of purchase, and what seams like the best fit at the time! Thanks for all the input from all! ....
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| MrP
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2002-03-19 36500
NHNEWT,
I don't know if you bought a tractor yet, but I just listed my L3410 HST 4WD for sale. It has less than 160 hours on it and comes with a 72" mowing deck. Check out the classifieds.
This tractor would seem to do everything you wanted and have room for growth. ....
Link: 3410 For Sale
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| NHNewt
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2002-03-19 36503
Thanks, I will keep your machine in mind, but I will not be buying for another 30 days or so. ....
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| Morgan Wright
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2002-03-19 36507
I was looking at a new B-7500 Kubota with gear tranny and they were asking 11,800 for it new, and right next to it sat a 12 year old B-6200 Kubota for $5,500. The difference is, the B-6200 is 16 hp at the engine instead of 21 and of course it's a little rusty and comes with no warrantee. But it's half the price of a new one. It comes with a front loader and wheel weights.
What does anybody know about the old B 6200? Was it reliable? Is it worth it? It has 700 hours on it, but I don't know if it's "gone around the dial" a few times because the dial maxes out at 999 hours.
It was made in 1988 and the B-6200 series was made from 1982 to 1992. Everything works. He says it's comparable to the modern B-7400 because of the 16 Hp and manual steering.
Should I buy it? Or should I go with the new one? ....
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| Morgan Wright
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2002-03-20 36513
Oh yeah, the B-7500 had a front loader, so they both have the same equipment, the price comparison is $11,800 for the new one vs $5,500 used. But I should really be comparing it to the B-7400 because they are both 16 horse at the motor. I wonder how that prices out.
So, was the B-6200 a good tractor? ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-20 36519
I have never seen a B 6200 Kubota before, but I would suggest that you would be hard pressed to find any kubota that wasn't a well built piece of machinery. If it runs good and it's not all beat to heck I reckon it would be fine. Now it's up to you to decide whether you WANT a new one or not. I THINK a similarly equipped B7400 would run you about 10,000, maybe a little less, but don't go by that... call a dealer and find out for sure. I spent 13,000 even for a B7500 with hydrostatic tranny, 54" belly mower, LA272 loader. Plus tax of course. From what I have seen here on the board, that was a very excellent price.
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| Steve Mahler
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2002-03-20 36530
I have a B6000E which is the predecessor to the B6200. I love my tractor, but for moving around dirt, it is kind of light. You should go to tractortips.com and compare the weight of the 6200 to the 7500. I find myself spinning tires alot when trying to move serious fill with my back blade. Certainly a stout machine, though.
Good luck ....
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| Morgan Wright
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2002-03-20 36531
Yeah you got a good price, they wanted something like 13,500 for the 7500 with hydro tranny in New York.
The 7400 is not any cheaper than the 7500 with gear tranny because the 7400 doesn't have the gear option, you have to get hydro tranny only. So that brings the price up again even though the 7400 gives you much less tractor than the 7500.
I'm going to buy the used B-6200 in about 1 hour. I will never find another used Kabota this cheap. If the power is low because of the 16 horse, I'll just live with it. If I can't stand it, I'll use it for a trade in at a different Kabota dealer when I get more cash.
Thanks Duane ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-20 36532
Sounds like a plan Morgan. You can generally get your money back out of a used piece of equipment if your not happy with it, unlike buying ANYTHING new. I bet you'll be happy with it though. Good luck with it, and let us all know how you like it. ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-20 36535
According to TractorTips.com, the B6200 has 15 HP and 12.5 at the PTO.
The only thing I've read about them is the cooling system is gravity fed . I guess this means there's no waterpump. Rather that's good or bad...dunno! No experience with 'em.
Morgan, you might want to do a search on the CTB to see of any potential problem areas. ....
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| JimTN
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2002-03-20 36548
Salesman who I bought my Kubota from has model with gravity cooling (no water pump). He told me that he has to be careful to keep the radiator screen and radiator clean at all times. It is almost that he cleans the screen when he checks the oil. If in conditions of much chaff from high weeds etc. he may have to clean more than once a day. He said that if kept clean it does fine, but he did reccommend getting model with water pump.
Just be careful and enjoy your purchase. ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-21 36592
Open mouth... insert foot... I am really sorry fellas, but I have been telling people I paid $13,000 plus tax for my B7500 hsd, loader, and mower deck, but that's not correct. I actually got the papers out tonight to see just what I paid to find that I actually paid $14,000 plus $840 PA sales tax for a total of $14,840 out the door. The $13,000 was what I financed after the down payment. I guess I was so excited to get my tractor I didn't even pay attention to how much I paid. Anyways, I still think that was a good price, and I am sorry for accidentaly misleading anyone. ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-21 36598
Duane, you're in Pennsylvania? Where abouts?
I'm in southern York County...
Just curious... ....
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| Duane
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 53 Western PA
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2002-03-22 36620
Hi Roy... I live in Southern Crawford County. I bought my tractor from :
Greenhill Farms
28361 Highway 77
Cambridge Springs PA 16403
Nice people to deal with. ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-22 36622
As mentioned, I'm in southern York County...Windsor Borough, to be exact.
Picked my Deere up at Southern York Turf and Tractor.
They cut me a nice deal on the 670 (600 hours, included two new front tires and a Befco 5" finishing mower) for $8500.
I'd definitely deal with them again...even though Kubota's got me started looking, green is cool too. ....
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| morgan
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 126 Albany, NY
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2002-03-23 36669
After I bought my B-6200 with gear tranny for $5,700 I saw a B-6200 with HST for $5,500 in better shape.
Why does that always happen? Same reason you meet a beautiful woman right after you married the plain one. ....
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| Roy Jackson
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2002-03-23 36670
Well, Morgan..welcome to reality!!!
Listen, ol' buddy...it's like when ya buy a car..new especially...you're proud as a peacock and braggin'...but some dern fool has gotta say "Well, I coulda got it for ya cheaper". We've ALL heard that, haven't we?
You made your deal..you like the tractor ya bought. Enjoy it! Monday morning quarterbackin' never helps NOBODY! (Except when you're ready to buy your NEXT tractor!) ....
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| morgan
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 126 Albany, NY
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2002-03-25 36698
I just figured out a cool ploy to get the best price possible. Go to one dealer and get his lowest price. Then go to another dealer and get his lowest. Then go to the guy with the lowest number and tell him you just bought one from the other dealer at XXXXX and he will say, "You paid HOW MUCH for it??? I could have sold you one for YYYYY" and then tell the guy, "Yeah, well I needed two anyway, I'll buy the second one from you for YYYYY."
I also figured out what to do when you meet the beautiful woman after you already married the plain one. Just make sure you get your wife's permission first or she'll kill you. ....
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