Go BottomB7500 and tires
 | Bo McCarty THE BO-MA
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2001-05-28 28688
Seen a B7500 in action Saturday on my way to MC a show so I had to turn around and chat to the owner about his Kubota, wow, Kubota should give him an endorsement deal he loves his B7500. Now I'm way over 95% sure I'll be buying the B7500 after seeing it in action mowing a steep, uneven hillside yard.Tires. What are they loading tires with? I'll demo a B7500 this week and I was thinking the dealer said they used calicum in the tires, but the guy I visited with said go with antifreeze and water since the calicum eats the wheel. Bo
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| I just put winshield
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-01-05 34299
use winshield washer liquid it works great and low cost
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-01-06 34315
As far as I know, many people who use CaCl use tubes in the tires. The CaCl doesn't touch the wheels unless there's a leak. Even without tubes, CaCl doesn't exactly eat the wheels.
Many people do use windshield fluid. Methanol based fluid can make an explosive air mixture inside the tire. Some tire shops won't work on a tire that is loaded with methanol.
It seems like any alternative has problems. It eats metal, sterilizes the soil, poisons pets or explodes. And, dumping any of the stuff gets the envirocops on your case. Propy based anti-freeze doesn't have many of these problems. It's problem is cost.
My solution was not to load the tires and depend on an implement for ballast. Well, that's not problem free either when I want rear traction for using my box blade. That problem is that wheel weights are expensive and pains in themselves.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-01-06 34324
Tom makes a good case against the use of alternative solutions to provide ballast. Calcium chloride and water is the industry standard and any big tire dealer should be able to provide the service. As I understand it CaCL and water is the cheapest, safest, heavy solution available. My tires came with tube anyway so it was no big deal to fill the existing tubes. If you live in a fairly flat area, wheel weights and other methods might serve well, but if you are going to use your tractor in rough hilly terrain then consider the fact that the liquid filled tires get the ballast all the way down to the ground where it can exert the maximum leverage and stability. As far as using food grade antifreeze (the stuff you would use in your RV fresh water system) I see two big problems. First is cost, at 3 to 4 dollars a gallon it is much more expensive the CaCl and water. I think I paid 85 cents a gallon for my tire ballast and that included the labor. The other issue is toxicity. The last time I spilled some RV antifreeze on my lawn it took 3 years to grow the grass back in that spot. When it leaks, and you know someday it will, it will sterilize your soil for several seasons. Bottom line: assess your geography and use. If you are operating in rough rock and roll terrain I would recommend liquid filled tires. If you are operating anywhere other than Fairbanks Alaska, I would recommend Calcium and water as ballast.
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2002-01-06 34326
Mark, I guess different preferences is why they have different products. You mention spilling antifreeze and grass not growing back for 3 years. Well, I had the same experience with calcium. I don't even know where you could find the stuff in my area, and no one that I know would even consider using it if it were available (although it's obviously popular elsewhere). But a neighbor bought a used tractor that came from Minnesota and didn't know it had calcium in the tires until one sprung a leak. He was right across the road, so he drove it right up in front of my shop building with a pencil sized stream running out. And like you said, it was 3 years before the grass came back. And he's also had to replace the wheels after they rusted out, but of course the tractor was about 25 years old, so I don't know how long it took them to rust away. About the only thing I know for sure is that there will never be any calcium in a tire I own. LOL ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-01-06 34327
I hadn't thought about Calcium killing the grass but now that I do think about it, I realize it is pretty saturated stuff and like any salt it will affect plant life. At least Rover and Barfy are not attracted to it as they are to all types of antifreeze. They think they have died and gone to heaven when thaey smell the stuff and in most cases they do. I still would rather have the stability offered by liquid filled tires and calcium provides the fewest drawbacks of any of the fluids listed so far. ....
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| Dirt
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 7 SW IN
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2002-01-06 34329
How much weight as fluid is suggested for a B7500 w / R4 tires? How high should the fluid level be in the tire? ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2002-01-06 34330
It seems like the subject of fluid in the tires is always interesting. I think that I learn something each time around. I don't think there will be any difference in traction whether the weight is in the tires or in the form or weights closer to the axle, but there will be a big difference in how long it takes to accelerate and stop. Not that tractors do much of either one, but anyone who does a lot of high speed stop and go driving with their tractor :-) would probably prefer the wheel weights over the fluid fill. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-01-07 34333
Guess I forgot to mention beet pulp--I've heard of people using pulp for tire loading. Don't know what might be done to it so it doesn't ferment or something. In that case, it would keep your tire pressures up as well.
Some fine points I've heard are that the CaCl mix is slightly heavier per volume than others and that loading lowers the tractor's centre of gravity slightly more than weights. However, these differences may be more theoretical than practical. I've also heard that loading can distort tire treads at ground contact which reduces effects of the added weight. Again, I don't know how much is theoretical and how much practical.
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2002-01-07 34339
Tom, the beet juice or pulp has a brand name of RimGuard, I believe. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-01-07 34341
I think that the standard rule of thumb for any type of liquid fill is to rotate the assembled tire and wheel to the highest level that the air valve will achieve and fill it to that level. The rest of the space is pressurized by air, as you would normally do. You then must only check the air pressure when the tire is rotated with the valve at its highest point. Beet Juice? Really? At what temperature does it freeze? ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-01-07 34342
The rims and tires that are being replaced on tractors are normally 25 plus years old many over 40 years. When you take a 55gallon drum and put 50 gallons of water in it and then add three 80lbs bags of calcium you have to have more weight than any other solution. There is no heavier liquid available. There is nothing any cheaper. I would like to see nothing used but often trying to balance a tractor to make it work and working with cost constrants it is the only viable means. With the pumps we use we can fill totally full making it hard to balance the air pressure in the tires. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-01-07 34345
I had a couple of thoughts on the benefits of liquid filled tires and why Bird and some other folks might not find them very useful. The tires on my Toyota Tacoma pickup stimulated the thought. I have a set of studded winter tires that are rated at load range ‘C’ and had I known more I would have chosen a different tire. The problem is that although the tires are the proper size for the truck they also fit the biggest SUV’s on the road that can easily weigh twice as much as my truck. As a result I cannot take enough air out of the tires to get the outer row of studs to make contact with the road. I am quite sure that a 7000 lb. Ford excursion would have no such problem. So the thought that two such different vehicles had the same footprint on the road got me thinking about the current thread on liquid filled tractor tires. Here is the premise: Little tractors like my 4100 have larger tires in proportion to their weight than their bigger cousins. For example Deere says my 4100 weighs 1565 lbs without attachments. The 4200 weighs 2675 lbs and the 4300 nearly doubles the weight at 2900 lbs. Yet the 4300 does not have twice the footprint or more to the point, twice the tire volume as the 4100. I estimate that each of my rear tires holds about 7 or 8 gallons and the fronts about 2 gallons each. My calcium filled tires are adding nearly 10 percent more weight to my tractor. The 4200 has just slightly larger tires and comes out of the box 1100 hundred pounds heavier. I don’t think that you would get the same percentage increase in weight or stability by added liquid of any kind to the tires on the 4200 or larger models.
I think the law of diminishing returns is working here. Smaller machines derive a far greater benefit from liquid filled tire than do larger machines because the tire volumes do not increase at the same rate as the weight does in succeeding models. What do you guys think?
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2002-01-07 34346
Mark, I think you're right. I DO have my rear tires filled with water and antifreeze to the 75% level; just no experience with the beet juice. And I'm running 12 psi in my rear tractor tires and still don't get a full footprint because the B2710 just isn't heavy enough. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-01-08 34359
My impression is similar to what Mark says, and that is what is intuitive for me. However, there is an assumption that the relationship between weight and traction is linear (one increases at the same rate as the other). I'm aware that the relationships of many things in nature aren’t linear.
I don't know about the relationship between weight and traction (defining traction could be a trick in itself I guess), but I'll stick with my intuitive sense until I hear differently. Maybe somebody closer to basic physics that I knows the answer.
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