Go BottomHST vs GST on L2800
 | hollands
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2 NC 
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2007-05-08 141930
I am planning to purchase a L2800 4x4 with FEL and wanted to see the pros and cons of HST vs GST on this model. I plan on using the tractor for moving dirt, bush hogging, tilling, digging, and small grading work. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2007-05-08 141939
You can only get the hydro or gear on a 2800 and the hydro is the way to go because of the PTO. ....
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| hollands
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2 NC
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2007-05-08 141940
what about the drop in PTO hoursepwr doe to the HST? ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-05-08 141942
Hollands; The drop in PTO horsepower will be little if any, the power to the PTO doesn't go thru the hydro unit. Frank. ....
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| tazz01
Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5 louisiana
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2007-05-08 141947
I have the L2800, 4WD,FEL.Mine is the gear drive.I am very pleased with this set up.Plenty of power.I use my L2800 doing many of the same chores you mentioned.The L2800 geared does them very well. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-05-09 141955
I know what the paper says about the hydro's pto horsepower loss. The field work will tell you different if your tasks are using the pto! The flexibility of the speeds will get the hydro's work done faster! Been there done that for over forty years, I'm not saying that is the case with pulling a plow or a disc all day. The hydros have been an excellent unit and I've actually pulled with a hydro what a gear drive couldn't. The plus of the hydro would be that you don't need the clutch to stop the tractor to change gears which would stop the PTO. ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-05-09 141969
Like the saying goes: "You don't miss what you never had". That said, if you try a hydro, you'll never want to go back to a gear. A hydro will make the work seem like fun when you can increase your productivity by double. And it doesn't tire you out shifting, clutching, and throttling--and still trying to steer.
I have pulled over 15,000 lb. (fully loaded 5yd dump trailer or a fully loaded bobcat/equipment trailer) with my 33hp NH hydro. It hardly knew it was there.
Frank: Don't know about 'botas, but on my NH, the power from the engine goes through the hydro pump shaft, then through the trans to get to the PTO (according to the Service Manual) ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-05-09 141971
The only time I like the gear over the HST is in a field. Then mainly with a sprayer due to keeping ground speed fixxed. For such as cultivating, cutting with any kind of mower, blade or rake work the HST is hands (or is that foot) down better. kt ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-05-09 141972
Kenny. Kenny. Kenny, take a listen son:
I control ground speed with a little creature feature called "cruise control". Set your range, throttle, press the "go" pedal, attain the speed and toggle the cruise switch. To turn off cruise, simply toggle off or touch the brakes. Voila! (that's french for "look Ma, no hands [or feet])
Whaaat? Yer Deere don't have that? ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-05-09 141973
EW; I should have been a bit more clear with my statment of the PTO power not going thru the Hydro unit. There have been different ways of doing this. Some had a PTO drive gear on the shaft between the engine flywheel and the hydro pump that drove a gear to power the PTO, Some like Deere have the power to the PTO go thru the center of the hydro pump with a solid shaft that also spins the hydro pump, then the PTO drive shaft is splined on to it at the rear of the pump unit. The hydro motor is offset to allow room for the PTO drive shaft to go past it to the rear unit. The only thing I've ever known the hydro units themselves to power in any tractor is the drive wheel assembly. I had decided to hold my comments on the gear/hydro drive issue, some of you already know my staunch devotion to gear drives. But EW, double your prodution? If my wife had a new Lexus, which she doesn't. But lets say she did, we will put your blue hydro beside my green 12/12 power reveser on identical loader shuttle duty for a half day run, Dirt, (packed or loose), Snow, (any kind), in the mud, on sand, on cement, you pick the material and the conditions. If you move 10% more in a half day run I'd guve you my wifes new Lexus, if she had one. You name the time and place. Frank. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-05-09 141975
It wasn't too many years ago that 130 pto horsepower or 140 to 145 engine horsepower tractors only had 12 to 15 gallon hydraulic pumps! These tractors ran loaders with 3500lb capacities and more. Today that same tractor would have about 25 gallon pump!!!!
Now when we run a hydro we loose some horsepower from running a pump and using a hydraulic fluid to help drive but how much do we need with an appropriate driver and some time. Many new tractors are coming out with a variant of a hydro in 100 plus horepower farm tractors. Yes they burn more fuel and they loose some power but they are selling.
It's hard to find someone that can't run a hydro, now a gear drive that could be a different story! ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-05-10 141978
Art; You are right about the hydraulic flow of fairly recent tractors, I just looked up an IH 1486, specs. show 12 GPM flow. The last new farm tractor I owned was a Deere 8410 W/optional 42 GPM pump and 4 remeotes. I'm not too familliar with companys other than Deere's "Fendt Vario" type transmission. Altho not a true hydro drive, they incorporate some orbit motors to change the ratio of the planetaries. I drove a demo. 7820 pulling a deep ripper in cornstalk ground which at that time was only available with the "Vario Drive" type transmission. It was neat, push a botton, the computer took over, it adjusted the engine RPM's, the transmission ratio, for maximum fuel effeciency. An operator with little training could run it without fear of them overloading the engine by not down shifting under heavy load. Neat, you bet. More fuel stingy than a gear, Deere literature says so. High priced, You bet. More reliable than gears, time will tell. Frank. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-05-10 141989
Frank not for nothing but they are not fuel stingy with any variable drive and pulling a subsoiler they are at the worst, with the most production out of PTO work just like a hydro. We have those trannies to thru the Styr line from europe but I don't see them coming here to soon nor do I feel a real need. With a powershift trans like what we have and the end of row function which shifts up and idles down for you just with raising the implement driving is easy. With GPS for exact row spacing for planting or even for tillage it makes it hard to goof up and kind of makes farming fun! At least for the first couple of hours in the seat anyway! ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-05-10 141992
Frank---my bad---by "doubling production" I meant in the arena of let's say a homeowner moving a pile of dirt from point a to b requiring numerous back and forth motions, or mowing with the same conditions---not straight-line, straight forward stuff like farm work or regular uninterrupted mowing where there is very little or no back and forth manuevering. Hope that helps.
When can I pick up the virtual Lexy? ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-05-10 141994
EW; Sorry, I could'nt restrain myself, I just had to jump on that one. but I did confine my challenge to the only place I could seriously challenge your hydro. I do fully agree that in 99% of all other situations you will get more done in less time. I'll make my next statement in kind of a whisper tho. BUT #^%*&*^%$#%, I STILL LIKE GEARS!!!!!!!! Oh, the virtual Lexy, I'll break it gently to the virtual Mrs. that the New Lexy, I just lost in a poker game, she will virtually understand. Frank. ....
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 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
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2007-05-12 142029
Frank,
I like the gears as well. I grew up running an old Minneapolis U tractor, with gears and a hand clutch. A few years back, I puchased a small tractor with a gear transmission. Recently, I puchased my first Kubota with the hydro drive. I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO GEARS, much as I love them.
When blowing snow, or when making many direction changes, such as when mowing or using the loader; there is nothing better than the hydro drive. And yes, I can easily double the work done by anyone who uses a gear tractor for these chores. I know, because I've done it both ways.
Cleaning out the calving pen using a gear drive tractor, would be a royal pain in the hind quarters. I'll use the hydro. And if you get on the hydro drive tractor, I'm willing to bet that I'd never get you off of it, short of knocking you off of the thing with a bat. hehehe.
If you want to plow 640 acres, the gears won't make a bit of difference. You set the thing and forget it. But try driving a stick car in a traffic jam, and you'll soon begin to appreciate the automatic transmission. Same goes for the hydro tractor.
The hydrostatic transmission is the ONLY way to go, unless you are driving your tractor in a straight line, and in the same direction, hours on end.
The hydro makes a regular tractor as close to a skid steer tractor as one can get, yet you still have the 3pt, PTO, and mowing capabilities that the skid steer tractors don't have.
Joel ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-05-12 142031
Joel, many of the newer large farm tractors like the 8310 deere that Frank made mention of have some really nice features that make them really easy to drive. They do have hydraulic shuttles that came into the large farm tractors in the early 90's for most of the industry. Today they do have some nice features like end of row functions that do everything for you.
The compact tractors are a fit all, they mow lawns, replace skid steers and TLBS if equipped, act like large ag tractors when needed, and of coarse replace the old wheel barrow. A well equipped compact tractor is like a swiss army knife for a home owner in the yard! ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-05-12 142040
Joel; I see you are from the great state of North Dakota, been there a few times have some good friends up there, all of them 100% Kraut, just like me. You know you can always tell a German, but you can't tell him much at a time. Any how my love for gears, I grew up on "H's" and "M's", one neighbor had Moline tractors, a Z a U and a Standard tread G. took a good M to keep up with the U, but I did'nt like sitting three ft. behind the rear axle down in the dust. As a teenager I drove grain trucks old enough they did'nt have sycncromesh, so I had to learn double clutching, this was before I was old enough to have a drivers licence, but the cops never bothered us, I wasn't the only kid who did that back then, long as you drove right they never said anything. I bought a new Farmall 656 gear drive in about 1965, my Uncle bought a new 656 Hydro in about 67 or 68, it was great for PTO work on the baler, but did'nt have enough power for the Fox chopper in good corn. In heavy tillage that tractor sure kept the gas man busy, Uncle soon traded it. In 73 I got my first Hydro combine an IH 715, had hydro combines till I retired, last one was a 9610 Deere. hydros were wonderful in combines, but drive wheel power needs were secondary to the power requirements of the seperator, so the infinite speed ability out weighed the power loss of the hydro. I've had a bad right foot for a couple years, that I have great hope will be corrected by the Doctors at Mayo Clinic later this summer. With a bad right foot my 12/12 Power reverse Deere is much easier to operate being I hardly need to use my right foot. This past December I bought my first pickup with a "Marshmallow Box", I traded in my 04 Silverado gear, If it had'nt been for the bad foot I would have bought another gear without queation. Nuff from me. Frank. ....
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