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 | ONTARIO
Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 19 Sudbury, Ontario 
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2007-03-19 140552
Can I dig with the hoe in the winter time?
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2007-03-19 140553
When the ground is frozen it's hardest just to get started! After you make a hole for the bucket to go in then it's easy to pull up after digging under the next bucket full. ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-03-20 140573
Ontario I'm across the river from you. I was asked to dig with my medium sized backhoe and will never do it again. I ened up ripping out the entire bottom end of the dipper stick pivot mount trying to help a neighbor ($400 fix and made $200 whoppeee!). It's more than just making a starting hole. Every bit of work goes into breaking apart the frost--which is like trying to break concrete--in fact concrete is easier; at least the concrete slab will eventually end. Frost is everywhere. If you MUST dig, get a frost tooth (a single blade or tooth that replaces the bucket. Use that to rip the frost. But again it will be like concrete. A big backhoe may not have any problems, but if the relief valve comes on while digging--- give it up. It will be warm in a few (weeks? months? :))
What are doing that you need to dig now? ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-03-21 140583
ONTARIO; I've used a frost hook like EW spoke of in emergency plugged up sewer situations in the winter. A frost hook will jerk a hoe around worse than most anything else you can do with it. If you can get by till thaw or use what they call a grave warmer like they use at the cemetary during the winter to thaw the ground your hoe will last years longer. Best of luck. Frank. ....
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| 8x56mn
Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 167 Watkins Glen NY
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2007-03-21 140584
Well if you must dig a hole, what we do on jobs where we caqn/t get a big hoe in is build a tent out of plastic sheeting over the area you want to dig and rent or buy a salamander and blow air into the tent, leave a vent hole and you would be surprised how quickly it it soften up. The frost will just suck up going for the heat. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-03-21 140585
here in central NY depending on if it had been cleared after the cold set in we have very little frost in the ground. If it is under a foot and you can get a good starting point I'd go do it depending on the Kubota you have. That doesn't mean a BX can do it. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-03-21 140588
We have about 18" to 2 feet of frost here south of Detroit. A frost tooth is good for scratching through the frost to make a starting hole and then to leverage it up in chunks. The biggest thing is starting a hole. ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan 
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2007-03-21 140590
Here in mid-Michigan, the frost never got beyond about 3-4 inches thick. I think that is the first time ever. We had warm temperatures, then had snow cover before the cold temps came in. The snow insulated the ground.
I always counted on a good deep frost which causes the soil to heave and loosen the ground, softening it for ease of root growth in my garden and farm plots. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-03-21 140595
No digs about geography here, but ONTARIO (the member) is about 500 miles north east of Detroit.
He is approx. 175 miles due east as the crow flies from Sault Sainte Marie for better reference.
His big problem will not be frost, although at this time of year it IS a serious issue, the problem will be something called the Cambrian Shield, which is part of the exposed crust of the earth.
Best of luck. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2007-03-21 140596
Murf:
Point well taken. I assumed he was just across the border or part way between here and Toronto. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-03-21 140598
My bad. I should have looked first; I wrongly assumed he was talking the part of Ontario I'm familiar with---you know the suburb of the US the other side of the river. I suppose me brain is still sun-toasted from the southland. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. :) ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-03-21 140605
No biggie, our geography confuses people from all over the world, not just from south of the border. It makes me giggle when I hear a Texan talk about how big the state is.
Some quick facts about Ontario;
We have an island in Lake Huron, it forms part of the barrier between the lake and Georgian Bay, which is only 146 square miles smaller than the State of Rhode Island.
The longest east-west distance in Ontario is 1050 miles, the longest north-south distance is 1075 miles.
Ontario is 415,598 square miles in size, by comparison, Texas is 268,601 square miles, which means Ontario is 1.5 times it's size.
If you go the same distance south, FROM the south tip of Ontario, as it is from the south tip of Ontario to the north tip, you would be in Fort Meyers, Florida.
If you do the same thing but using the kitty-corner (diagonal) measurement, you would be in the Cayman Islands (south of Cuba).
BTW, Ontario is not even the largest province in Canada, Quebec is, and it's
Finally, if you look at distances and areas of Canada as a whole, it gets pretty staggering, as just a single example, we have some big lakes (not great lakes) in Canada, one is called Great Bear Lake, it is 11,878 square miles in area. To put this in perspective, you could put 7 Rhode Islands in it, and they would all still be islands!
Or, you could put Rhode Island, Delaware, Connecticut in it and still nearly have enough room left for Puerto Rico.
Best of luck. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-03-21 140607
Murf, are you making an offer on those states? Could you not accept one or two more? ;)
Oh I hope that is not P & H. kt
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 | AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2007-03-21 140615
One of my favorite quips:
Notice on a wall in a bar in Anchorage:
To all our Texan patrons, if Alaska was cut in two Texas would be the THIRD largest State.
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-03-21 140616
Kenneth, we'll take it under consideration, but you must take Quebec as a down payment. ;)
Ann, I LIKE that one. I'll have to add that to my favourites list.
We have one up here about the Texan bragging about how big his state is, and a guy from Toronto says "we used to be a big place too, but we gave a little over half our territiry to the French, now we're only 1.5 times the size of Texas, we used to be 4 times the size of Texas"........
It really shocks people when I tell them it takes me 21 hours of non-stop highway driving to reach the border with the next province.
Best of luck. ....
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 | bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2007-03-21 140625
Murf,
I just can't resist to comment about the 21 hours it takes to drive across Ontario....I once had a pickup truck like that! :)
Brian
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| ONTARIO
Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 19 Sudbury, Ontario
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2007-03-23 140694
You guys were right!! tried to dig in my mini garden today could not break up the dirt. Had it on the lowers RPMs possible because I still suck at moving all the peices, all you Experts would have a good laugh!!!! ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-03-24 140713
By "dirt" do you mean "frozen dirt" aka "frost"?
And now... you are an Expert.
Yup, it's as simple as "been there, done that" or in your case "couldn't do that" LOL. ....
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