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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2006-08-22 133589
We had our equipment at a location away from our local dealer. Needed an air filter due to the dust bowl we were working in,... and a reminder on this forum a couple days ago. We were going to be changed $82 for a $31 air filter at a Kubota dealership. When I questioned the dealer why they were trying to chanrge so much for the filter, he said it was because we didn't purchase the tractor from him. They refused to sell it to us for a reasonable price.
We transport our equipment to wherever the work is. It is unbelievable to think we could not get a simple service part at a reasonable price from any Kubota dealer. This is rediculous!!!!!!!!!!!!. If the price is a little higher because they didn't get the purchase, that might be understandable, when you are in a bind. But a 250% overcharge isn't within any kind of reason.
Still fuming and venting.......
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 | dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine 
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2006-08-22 133590
That is ridiculous, the $31. is probably already 200%. Let the other TP users know who the dealer is so they can Boycott them.
David ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan 
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2006-08-22 133591
Beagle is it possible the higher price is "list"? If it is then that is perfectly legal and ethical. The lower price, is that an "equivalent" competitor's price? I find it curious the disparity between the prices you quoted.
I ask for discounts which are usually 10% at a dealer whether I have an account there or not. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-22 133593
I did some homework, made some phone calls, and was quoted 3 other prices between $31 and $34. I called our own dealer and others.
As we were at the parts counter, a customer purchased the exact same filter (PN 6C060-99410) for $34. Checked it out on Tractorsmart also, same price.
Like I said, we've seen disperity before in pricing between dealers, but nothing like this. The filter was purchased and returned. It's during the return that I saw them sell the exact same filter to a customer for the right price. When I questioned why he sold it to us for 2 1/2 times as much, he said we didn't buy the machine from them.
If Kubota expects owners to be able to use their equipment commercially, they need to have a policy that allows you to get service parts at a reasonable price from any dealer. Who knows where you would be when a need arises.
This whole thing is a matter of principle. Still feel that twisting action coming from my rear end. Waiting to hear the snap..
Still venting..........
beagle ....
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 | Gearhead
Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 75 SEVEN mILE OH 
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2006-08-22 133600
I work at a dealership and we whopuld never do anything like that or atlest i whouldn't. If i was you i would try to call up kubota and report this, because that dealer needs not to be in business, gives the rest of us a bad name. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-22 133601
Already reported it. Awaiting a response from Kubota. If I don't here from corporate, I am going to contact the district representative, and see if he'll deal with it.
We won't stop until I get some kind of an answer.
beagle ....
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 | SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2006-08-22 133603
Now you have a plan. Their dealers should be tied to the main corp. with a min. mark up on parts and service. Car dealers in the states used to do the same thing years back. wish you luck. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-22 133604
Thanks, ...by the way, how did the bridge project turn out. We've been so busy this summer, I lost touch for a while. ....
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| SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2006-08-22 133608
Your plan is a good one but a little more than I wanted to invest for timbers. I have a 3hp lawnmower on the island and a boat. Annbush seems to have gotten the contract with her idea for the timebeing. Things may change at any time and the timbers may appear maybe my wife will get a raise. I will post any advances. Glad to see you back sorry you had such a time with the filter most companys think they have you hooked. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-22 133609
A very practical solution on the bridge, but not nearly as much fun.
We will get some satisfaction, somehow, over the filter fiasco. If we treated our customers like that, we wouldn't have any problems, or customers. Being taken advantage, or even the attempt at it, is a tough pill to take. Leaves you feeling violated.
We all take stupid tests every day. Some days we pass, and some days........ ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-08-23 133621
Beagle,
I think I see the same with local Kubota dealership at least to some degree.
I agree with this being dumb.
....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-23 133630
The friends that I know that are dealers stated that they made their money off service, parts and used sales. On the sale of tractors they were just trying to break even. This being the case it seems ridiculus to try and discourage business no matter where it comes from. I guess I would be trying to develop any customer into a steady customer, not trying to push him away.
The local NH and Case dealer was like this, but his business slowly dried up and he sold out to Martins in Aliceville. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-23 133631
I completely agree with the concept of a customer getting a better price on parts if they purchased the equipment from that dealer. What I can't get my arms around is a dealer charging 2 1/2 times list price to someone who is in a bind because they happen to be working away from where their original dealer is.
That's plain wrong....... and needs to be stopped. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-08-23 133633
beagle,
Just wondering if the state you are in has anti gouging law and if so would the come under it? I have only heard of that being used with such as natural dissaters but it might come into play. You could probably check with their attorney general office of that state.
I really would hope it would concern Kubota.
You may have said and I missed it. Just how did they know you did not buy the machine there? ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-23 133636
When I sold parts for OMC, Honda and Volvo Penta we had one price for everyone. If the person was a good customer and he had a large parts bill we would give him a break the price, but this was normally discounted from a large repair bill.
I guess I could see charging the walkin list and then discounting for the regular customer. I think it is counter productive to surcharge the walkin customer 250%. Most of us will question the ethics of the dealer if we find out he is gouging us. I doubt many of us would return to the dealer for a major purchase if he is gouging us for parts. It is certainly counter productive and he is likely to fail.
That being said the local Chrysler Jeep dealer is motoring along without much problems. I am not sure he will gouge me but he is really only interested in servicing the old time residents. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2006-08-23 133640
Peters; We had a Dodge dealership that was generations old with a good reputation in a nearby town. All the older generations died off so it was sold to a real slickster, you talk about a gouger, he was the king. I walked out a couple times on a parts order. Needless to say he did'nt last long, it took the current owner quite a while to get people back but I think he is doing OK by now. Frank. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-23 133643
They knew we didn't but the machine there because we weren't in the computer as a buyer. We were in the computer somewhere, because when she looked at our card, we were already in the computer. The owner of the dealership, who I dealt with when I returned the part, told me we were "overcharged because we didn't but the tractor there". He also said I would be treated the same way anywhere, so I may as well pay him. We bought the same filter at 'list' from another dealer, even though it wasn't our own, without anyone asking any questions.
Let me go on record, we have nothing against the dealer we bought that tractor from. Very fine and good people. We were just a long way from them when we needed the filter. ....
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| SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2006-08-23 133645
You should have given the local who bought the filter 5 bucks to buy you one then give the dealer the one finger saulute through the window.
Sorry thinking out loud ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-23 133647
Ya, it would be like the old days. Waiting in the parking lot looking for a buyer. .....Who would have ever thought it would some day turn into a buyer for an air filter.
Good God, what a world. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-23 133650
I am not sure what planet the dealer is living on. Certainly my local Kubota dealer will not treat you like this.
Sounds like a bag store that deals with fine Scotch and Cuban cigars for exclusive clientele. Next thing you will need the special knock on the door to be allowed in to view the Kubota parts. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-08-24 133661
beagle,
Don't think you have given any indication where the dealership is you were overcharged by. Could he be in an area hit by disaster and has no sales of equipment and just makig it on doing such?
Not saying that is right, just wondering.
What would happen if an employee of a farmer/construction company who has no real idea of the owner's name were to got pick up parts? He goes in needing parts for Mr. Bob or Mr. Smith, for his tractor. And he does't know the first or last name as the case may be. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-24 133666
Ken, I haven't experienced the price gouging you mentioned. In fact, some prices in a lot of cases for tractor/equipment goods haven't really spiked upward. Some have admittedly been to busy (lazy?) to update their prices. Early on there were reports of out of staters buying generators and selling them for double. He was jailed and his gens. forfieted (betcha the sheriffs got 'em stashed). Dirt prices have doubled and rpled bt are no where near what we pay up north. Concrete has doubled. Still a lot of MS-resident contractors ripping off their kin folk though. ....
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| SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2006-08-24 133671
That kind of gouging was wide spread after Hurricane Hugo hit Charleston SC. Most of the contractors were comming along and putting a piece of plastic on the roof, getting the owner to sign a contract for $200. then they would go to the next house never to be seen again. People were desprate for help. I worked for 2 months on my place, and 4 neighbors homes. City slickers they did not have a clue how to take care of themselves. Two neighbors were ready to work (on their house) the other two sucked. I could not let their wives and childern suffer because dad was a numbnuts.
One of them had expressed concern that I owned guns, and he did not feel comfortable living close to me. He was the first one at my door after the hurricane wanting to borrow one of my guns. I told him to yell real loud if he needed help and I would shoot in that direction, DUCK!!!!!!! ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-25 133685
The only two disasters that have hit Michigan recently is losing to Ohio State last year, and the Automobile industry. We are all suffering the same from both, and niether would be an excuse for trying to take advantage of a customer.
I didn't have an Ohio State tee shirt on at the time.
beagle ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-25 133697
I was contacted by the Kubota Regional Sales Rep today. Professional guy that seemed professionaly concerned about what happened. If nothing else, they did repsond quickly to the complaint, appologized for the way the dealer acted, and said they would make sure the matter is taken is taken care of.
Got the filter for $31.
Life's good once again........for now. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-26 133699
Even at $31 each I think we're still being gouged. Years ago I worked for the supplier that made GM's convertible top systems. They had a problem with the '89 Camaro tops coming loose at high speeds. We "sold" our internal Engineering Sales Division a new, cast-stainless steel latch at 100% markup of $28 each. It was then sold to our internal Warranty Department who marked it up 100%. Then had to be "sold" to GM SPO (Service Parts Organization) which marked it up another 100% who "sold" it to the GM warranty guys who sold it to the GM dealers. The final price at the dealer was $429 and change for a $28 latch.
My point is so many "people" have their hands in the cookie jar. But that doesn't matter as long as they make a profit for doing absolutely nothing. But it's we the consumers who are paying outrageous costs.
Back in '03 I needed an air filter for my '03 Dodge Cummins. Only the dealers had them on the shelf for $30 and only one aftermarket maker was making them. My local Napa dealer wanted $64. I bought two from the dealer. Too many hands in the cookie jar. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-08-28 133728
We've run into this lots of times ourselves too.
I can remember being out of town doing a big build-out and sending a kid into the nearest dealer to get a pair of quick disconnect fittings for a rear remote line, one split open like it had been overtightened, bad metal I suppose, and Iwas going to change both just to be on the safe side, and a gallon jug of Super UDT since the split fitting had sewed fluid, and changing the fittings would lose even more.
He came back grumbling about me not giving him any money and luckily he had his Visa card with him, I jokingly said if he didn't drink so much he'd have $20 in his jeans!!
I was shocked when he handed me the receipt from the local Orange store.
2 Pioneer male fittings ($38.95 each) $77.90
1 Gallon Super UDT $62.95
For a grand total of $140.85 for two $5 fittings and $20 worth of hydraulic fluid.
I called the dealer, and he was very polite, but also very firm that was his list price and that was what he was charging me. I explained that it might not be very good for his business, and he couldn't care less, since I was "not from around here".
A few weeks later I got a call from the greens-keeper at that same course, it seems the Orange dealer had dropped by to see if there was any equipment he needed. The greens-keeper told me he just smiled and said he had already purchased everything they needed. When the dealer asked why he had not even been invited to give them a price, the grounds-keeper said he just told the man he was way too expensive, so no use wasting either ones time. The dealer was confused and wanted to know what gave him the idea he was so expensive?
The grounds-keeper said he just smiled and slid a photocopy of my $140.85 bill across the desk.
He said the dealer didn't say a word, just got up and left.
What goes around comes around.
Best of luck. ....
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 | oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-08-28 133736
I remember giving fittings and such away when I worked for the dealership. I still have a whole box full. The best thing you can due in a situation like that is to say go find a corner and f--- your self and walk out. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-28 133737
Tony, I'll give you my address to send them fittings to LOL
Where ya been lately---haven't seen your posts lately. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-08-28 133738
It is not the same that happened to get this post started but here's something we do that many dealers don't have the option to. It might help Murf a little but even that sounds like someone isn't watching the hen house and things are getting carried away. With the different major lines we sell could you imagine the same bearing just with different boxing more then tripling in price! It is the same part number by brand! We are all the time sorting common parts and pricing to get the best buys to keep us competitive in the market place. We don't go to aftermarket parts to do it unless the factory ones are that far out of porportion on the price as often the difference is the quality of the part and we've had enough trouble with that. There are times the aftermarket parts are the best way to go or the only way to go. I've heard of different prices for different customers, sometimes by hand written invoices and sometimes just built into the computer system they are using. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-08-28 133747
Art, I've tried this myself the odd time just for S___'s and giggles.
Look up a Pioneer 1044 (standard rear remote type) male fitting as a 'Bota part number, I bet you the Official Orange price will floor you.
The sme is true of a bunch of stuff, and NOT just in Orange packaging either.
Best of luck.
....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-08-28 133748
The local Ace hardware sells male Pioneer fittings for $5.49. I used one on my dump trailer. The JD dealer was asking $7.50 for them. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-28 133753
Murf;
Think of the cost of shipping it to Japan, labelling it and shipping it back. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-08-28 133756
Murf they are different by models but in this case it is good to have various suppliers to keep the prices in check. We often offer both the brand and price points. I haven't seen to many companies yet that are the lowest on everything. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-28 133758
Keeping these posts in mind, today I thouight I'd due some routine maint. on my NH skid SS and CUT. Boy did I have a wake up call. Went to the local Carquest; SS Oil filter list was $55.92, my price $26.16, CUT air filter List $66.85 my price $31.11.
Got back home and went to the Messick's Tractor web site for price comparison (Oneace's old employer) and my jaw dropped---they were much cheaper for everything by about roughly $30 total for the $122 I spent at Carquest---and were CNH parts not aftermarket. Sure I would have to include shipping but that still wouldn't even come close to the after market plus saless tax. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-28 133759
This whole thing has really sent our radar spinning. I have done more price comparisons since the air filter fiasco, and the results are amazing. It turns out my dealers prices are 30% higher than we can get parts for at dealers that we haven't bought equipment from. Of course, them there's the idiot that tries to sell it for 250% over list.
My father worked for GM Service parts for years, purchasing and pricing service parts to be sold to the dealers. I wish he was still here to ask him what the proces was. ....
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 | AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2006-08-29 133768
I dont find any of this suprising. Businesses mark up goods to different degrees depending on the environment they find themselves in. Different goods get marked up at different rates all the time. Our company sells some nutritional products at vastly inflated prices (it's embarrasing to see the markup on those items) but they cross-subsidize those products we sell at very little profit and some we sell at a loss. I am sure those of you who run your own businesses do the same - certain items make huge amounts of money, others it's barely worth doing - some you you loose money on but do them anyway (you know why you do). The price of a widget has very little to do with the widget itself, its a function of others who are selling widgets close by, the amount of widgets you sell, the losses you are incurring on some non-widget items, the time spent selling the widget and all sorts of other factors. Of course we could spend all day sourcing the cheapest widget for each item we buy but in the end we will have spent a heck of a lot of time identifying the price matrix for our basket of widgets and subsequently managing our purchases and it all changes tomorrow, so we pick a few businesses we like doing business with and agree (implicitly) to get great bargains on some widgets and get screwed on others. We have all heard posts on this forum where someone got a great deal on XYZ, guess what those filters paid for it. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-29 133769
Ann: Sadly you speak the truth in the retail world. And that's where this discussion diverges because it's like we're fighting City Hall.
Again, sadly, we're the guys that use the stuff---where the rubber meets the road. In the contracting world I've been told by my clients on many occasion to "just go ahead and do the job" at a much lower profit margin or even at a loss. And they try to cushion the financial blow by saying "I'll take care of you NEXT time".
Well, NEXT time never comes. And because NEXT time never comes, that sets a precendent and the customer refuses to make good which keeps prices low, so low that the contractor can't stay in business. Sort of like when a friend pays you back for a loan he had out for a long time---then borrows even more from you this time.
Years ago when I worked for a supplier to Harley-Davidson making their chrome parts, H-D would routinely make us take at-loss jobs just to keep the break-even or minimal-profit work. There comes a time when you just can't do business this way. And in fact they are out business. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-29 133773
It is one thing about the inefficiencies of the distribution system. In Japan there are many layers between the manufacturer and the customer. Walmart has made money by stream lining their distribution chain and at times squeezing their suppliers. Like Art states there are certain items in any parts list that are way overpriced. With thousands of parts I am sure the inventory and parts manager at a manufacture is not staying up nights checking prices vs the competition. I am sure there are items that are their gravy train.
Honda's strategy in the bikes in the early 70's was to sell the bike at a loss and then make the money on parts. You bought a bike for $1100 and then the mirror for the bike was $50. Basically all the parts were outragous, but those that were likely to be broken were more so and they changed bolt size, pattern and part design every year to stay ahead of the jobbers.
As a poor grad student one year I rebuilt a power assisted stearing rack for an old car. I priced the kit at the dealer for $150 and then went to the seal shop and bought the required seals for $30. Naturally if you are in outer Mongolia or North West AL you can not do that, but it gives you an idea what they charge to place the seals in a bag.
The other question Beagle brought up is the dealer essentually sizing up the pigeon at the door and setting his prices accordingly. This is like the small venders in the tourist markets in Mexico. You ask the price and they give you an inflated value. Then you work to a price which is fair. Naturally in this country we normally have a set price on the shelf and in most states the vender must sell for the marked price. When the vender triples the price for the pigeon walking in the door this is normally considered fraud. In many states this would land someone in jail. Consider the contractors selling siding to the older widows. I guess the question is why does Kubota allow this practice? Why does the state allow this practice? I wonder if the dealer is a member of better business. It might be good to contact the local better business. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-08-29 133774
I've found the BBB to be useless, maybe worse than useless. In Arizona I once filed a BBB complaint about an auto dealer repair ripoff. They turned the complaint over to the Arizona Automobile Dealers Association to handle. Guess which side they were on. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-08-29 133776
Art, I know exactly what you are saying, and I have to agree.
My problem though is when any business uses a higher priced example to steal from a customer.
In my case I went to the dealers shop and saw the box on the shelf the parts came from, it was an aftermarket (jobbers) box, on it next to the jobbers part number was a hand-written number, I recognized that number as the 'Bota part number off my invoice.
So what the dealer was doing was buying aftermarket parts, and selling them, part number included as "factory" parts. In fact the factory part IS a Pioneer fitting.
However, lets just say Kubota was NOT impressed that he was selling 3rd party parts as "genuine Kubota" parts.
Parts are a good source of revenue and profits, no question, but if a business is so desperate for profits that they try to make $100 profits on $20 worth of parts, that's a 500% profit margin, they likely shouldn't be in business.
Best of luck. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-29 133777
KW: I'm glad you said it first. What other organization can a business pay to have them be on their side. People are misled to thinking the BBB is there to serve them like the police. They're not. It's sort of like paying your ex-wife to say nice things about you to strangers. ....
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| rgpbeme
Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 55 Eureka Springs AR
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2006-08-29 133779
I get my air ,oil , fuel, hoses almost anything that is a expendable at my local NAPA autoparts store. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-08-29 133780
Murf, that's not the way it's supposed to be. We normally do offer both depending on time and the customer as some will only buy the original manufacturer unless being sold the part for the price. There is no way with out a lot of work to stay on top of all the pricing all the time, after all our government is us and look at what we've paid for hammers and toilet seats! Their are a lot of dealers that price by the manufacturers books it doen't mean that they are the lowest. It's still best to just be up front, there are many costs that the dealers never had before from the manufacturers that are taking their toll on the profits from not only parts but sales to but we should put them where they belong. We have a Napa next door and many of our prices are lower then theirs so it is wiser to check for the best in quality for the dollar. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2006-08-29 133781
I was assured by the Regional Sales Manager that this type of pricing and customer treatment was not supported by the orange corporate people. I didn't get an absolute answer on what they would or could do about it.
Since I was treated fairly at another dealer, I'll let the forces of a free market system and whatever the orange guys come up with to take care of the rest. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-08-29 133782
Since this has gotten so varied,
BBB gets paid by the business that are members to give reports on their members. They are in business just as any business is to make money. I have seen at least one insurance company that got great BBB reports on when the industry knew there was all kind of problems with them.
I have found one local tractor shop to be very competitive to TSC.
Found simple light bulb at the local Kubota to be 4 times the price on same bulb as the other tractor shop and a parts store.
Yet filters for my Kubotas are in line at the Kubota dealership, as good as any parts store. So, I guess you just have to pay attention. ....
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| AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2006-08-29 133786
Caveat emptor! ....
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