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 | redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21 Western New York 
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2006-07-18 132344
Hi;
I am looking at three subcompacts, the Kubota BX2350, The NH TZ25DA, and the Massey GC2300.
I will be cutting about 2 acres, blowing snow, and some occasional FEL work.
I am wondering what others think of these tractors. I also wonder if people think that the reverse air flow in the Kubota and Massy is as big of a deal as it seems to be (good idea, but not a deal killer?)
I like the Massy so far, they haven't gone to plastic, but hey, plastic doesn't rust...opinion?
There are other reasons, it seems to be the strongest hydraulic system, and it is designed to operate at a lower RPM than the Kubota (2800 vs 3200), not sure about the NH. Also, it looks like the turn radius is tightest with Kubota and Massy, not sure about NH (can't find spec).
So, the Massy is the most expensive of the three. I would welcome anyone's opinon on any of these three machines
Thx
RR
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2006-07-22 132504
I sell two of the brands that you are looking at currently and had the third a few years back and dropped the line. Not all brands are created equal! I don't care what you might have been told! There are performance differences and there is reliability differences. Why can some move a loader faster and lift more with a smaller pump? A better system with less restriction is a good start. You ask about the engine RPM and the difference, today you can buy cars that turn 9000 rpm with out trouble do to the quality of the metal used! This is the same as with tractors and trucks! Many of the engines that have lower factory RPMs can't handle a higher RPM do to the lack of quiality metal and finish to do so. To turn a higher rpm might also mean the engine is built to a higher quality as they normally are factory balanced like car and race engines. There were tractor engines that when rebuilt at a 4000 to five thousand hour interval that the cranks were worn egg shape because they were built of soft material and would need to be removed for turning or replaced even with out ever having a problem with a spun bearing or lack of lubrication. There are also tractor engine crankshafts that have gone over 30,000 hours without having to be removed from the tractor when being rebuilt. There are differences for sure for a dealer, some tractors need more after sale attention because of poorer quality of attention at the assembly plants just like with cars or anything else. ....
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| redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-07-22 132532
Hi;
you have raised some very good points, but me not being intimate with these tractors for years cannot make determinations based on this to steer a purchase.
Sooo...Have you any thoughts one which machine you feel is engineered approriately for the jobs that I mention? I don't need bells and whistles, just a tractor that performs the tasks with ease...
Thank you;
RR ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-07-23 132553
The Kubota for your jobs would work fine. You might also look at the 18 horsepower. ....
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| ihookem
Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 49 Allenton, Wisconsin
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2006-07-23 132555
Redrum, Art likes Kubotas the best for small tractors. (I read Art's profile.) Got you on that one Art. By the way nice part of New york you live. I have been all around that area. My dad got drafted to the air force and ended up meeting my mom in Utica. They are there now for a reunion. Also, glad to see you like Kubotas the best. I got a 7510hst last fall and I can't imagine 21 hp. doing more. By the way, how many hours can I expect before an overhual? 30,000 hours seems unbelievable. ....
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| redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-07-23 132556
Thanks Art and Thanks for the comments on my area. It's home and always have been. Utica is quite a bit east, pretty much central NY. I am right near the lake in the snow belt, soooo, you see why snowblowing is a big deal...
My only complaint on the Kabota's (this year's BX) is that the single hydraulic pump has a primary diversion for the PS in idle. So, yiou have to run the motor speed up just to raise the mower deck. But, you can steer it with a finger. A minor annoyance, but the others arent like this.
RR ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-07-25 132589
redrum,
As to your complaint on the Kabutoa's hyd pump, do you really run at an idle using the steering and lift?
As to Art's comments on brands he knows much more than I ever will but appreciate his comments on RPMs and such very much. I had the lower RPM advantage argued by a Massey Fan to the higher RPMs on my orange tractors. But I see more and more oranges and less of those red ones, even in the fields. My borther has a Massey with about 8 or 10 hp more than my Kubota M 6800. My Kubota will pull as much and out handle the Massey and it sure is more comfortable in operation. ....
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| redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-07-25 132622
Hi;
I simply am stating a change to the 2006 Kabota Subcompacts that has the dealers around here hearing complaints. With the 1850 and the 2350, they change the system to steer nicer, but simply lifting the mower deck requires you to jack the engine.
My Kabota dealer has told me that he has had a few that have traded on '05's and are unhappy with their '06's for this and other reasons. Again, I only know about the subcompacts that I mention. I can't speak for your machines.
Just because you see more orange, doesn't mean they are better. They sure might be, or their mareking campaign, incentives, or pricing might be better...
Since we are pro Orange, and I conceed on Red, any thoughts on Blue (TZ25DA)?
RR ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-07-26 132627
redrum,
Just because you see more of one brand in an area than another as you say could be many reasons. All you said can be correct. But quality is a very real one that often makes lasting impression over time. I do know who makes their own machines, who makes some of their machines and who makes none of their machines. It is very true any and all companies will goof.
Just in case I confused some on the red machines, Case is very well on the farm in my part of the world with dealerships being 30 and 50 miles away.
You will find those here who think very highly of any brand you want. Often we all prefer as earhtwrks said, "the devil we know". ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-07-26 132628
Around here I see mostly green, probably because the green dealer is superb and the orange guy has about the worst customer service imaginable. The dealer makes a huge difference. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-07-26 132633
ken,
"The dealer makes a huge difference."
How often have we seen that posted? The reason is because it is so true. If you don't like the dealer, you probably will not like the machine. ....
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| redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-07-26 132697
Thanks guys for everything...
I got offered a deal on the NH TZ25DA which the others can't touch. In fact is it $1400 less than the other NH dealer for tractor MMM, FEL, F Snowblower.
It is also from what I consider the best dealer that I have come across, and I have good words on their service.
Then you throw in 0% for 4 years financing, I just can't justify Kabota (hated the dealer), or Massey...
You all have been very helpful, I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but soon.
Thx again...
RR
....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-07-27 132701
I do hope you have good success with your tractor. Now about Kubota and the idle and hydraulics. For some things it is fine at an idle and yes I have my frustrations with it too! I do also respect it for what it makes the operator do! Thru the thirty or so years of selling hydros and servicing hydraulic systems one of the biggest problems with them is oil starvation. The causes are plugged filters, lack of oil or RPM's while operating under load! I hope you understand that they do try to build their tractor for everyone including the novice and this does force the operator to NOT operate at an idle and starve the pumps prematurely! We could say the jury is still out for some of you, but the trial is over in my mind from past experience. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-07-27 132702
Sounds like a good choice. ....
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| goodboots67
Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4 North Carolina ( mountains)
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2007-01-31 139376
Hello RR I am a owner of a new 2350 kubota 23 horse power 3 cylinder diesel. I have a front loader bucket,54 inch mowing deck,rear scrape blade,tiller, and a fully enclosed curtis cab soft doors with full windshield with wiper blade. My next purchae is the heater curtis makes run through my radiator with 3 fan settings. No complaints with this tractor at all. Does every thing I need it to do And more. Very good machine as well as a number one Warranty.
goodboots67 ....
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| goodboots67
Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4 North Carolina ( mountains)
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2007-01-31 139377
Hi again:
Not sure what you are talking about when saying jacking motor to raise mowing deck, Mine seems to work very good. Unhooking it is a breeze too. 2350 kubota. Have a good day.
goodboots67 ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-02-01 139457
Just another small point as far as the three point hitches, Kubota has raised there hitch so it will accept the many of the cat 1 attachments so some money can be saved on the cat 0-1 that is nearly a must on most subcompacts. RR I'm sorry the Kubota dealer didn't work out for you. ....
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