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gene13
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15 ky
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2005-08-24          115390

I've been using Kubota brand engine oil for my L3130 diesel,
is there a better oil I should use? such as a synthetic Mobile 1.


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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-08-25          115394

I use the Kubota 15-40 year round. My L3130 has 775+ hours (in 2 years) with no problems. Stick with it, keep your receipts for filters,oil etc. If you do have a mechanical problem, you will be less likely to have warranty problems.
bliz ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-25          115401

I use Rotella T or Rotella T Synthetic in everything I own. The Rotella T Synthetic is 5-40 and will provide the same engine protection as 15-40 but will work better in cold weather. It is about $13 per gallon at Wallyworld. ....

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taheide
Join Date: Oct 2004
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2005-08-25          115411

I second the Rotella T considering I also have an F350 Powerstroke. I do a Blackstone report with every oil change on it and get back very good results with high change times of 8-9K miles each change. I use it in the Bota and have not had any issues with starting in any weather, I alway get pressure quickly. Considering how smal the oil quantity is, Synthetics arent that bad an idea. For a large diesel like the stroke, synthetics are a waste unless you have a bypass filtration system where you can get good filtration to get the soot out. So far I havent found a reason to spend the extra cash on the filter system, nor the extra expense of synthetics in the stroke, just cant justify the cost when I get back excellent results using dino Rotella T. OTOH, Last oil change on the Bota I ran mobil 1 0w30 and I am about due for a change and will do the blackstone on it to see the results. I havent used the tractor much this year, maybe 7 hours max, so the mobil one was a good idea since it holds up much better than dino when sitting. In my Crown Vic, I use Mobil 1 0W30 as well and go 15K between changes with swapping the filter out every 5K and I get good results with that as well. I dont know how well the mobil 1 holds soot in suspension though, so next change on the bota will be Rotella T. I just ran out of Rotella and had 4 quarts of Mobil one at the last change. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-08-25          115414

Not all synthetics carry a diesel rating. Mobil 1 and Rotella are two that do. ....

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taheide
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 127 Capron IL
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2005-08-25          115416

Also not all Mobil 1's have a diesel rating either. The 0w30 just happened to have a matching rating on it. ....

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Art White
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2005-08-25          115454

Ah, let's see, most car's that are diesel are figured to run at 1/4 throttle and 1/4 load and most diesel trucks are figured to run at 1/3 throttle and 1/3 load and most tractors run at? Uh! Now what generic oil will give the best life in a tractor? ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-08-25          115462

I use John Deere 15W-40 Plus 50 synthetic blend in my 4410 and Cummins in the Dodge. It is made for Deere by Chevron. I buy it by the 55 gallon barrel so the price came to about $1.38 a quart at the time but I think the days of those prices from yore are gone. ;O) Very good oil the works well all year round. I did try the Shell 5W-40 Rotella T synthetic this last winter and also found it to be a very good oil. The folks at Shell sent me a case of 6 gallon jugs of the 5W-40 Rotella synthetic for bringing a packaging production problem to their attention. I guess I will be using the Rotella again this winter! LOL! ....


Link:   Plus-50® 15W40 Synthetic Blend Engine Oil

 
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denwood
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2005-08-25          115463

I have an 05 VW jetta TDI and it came with synthetic and can only use synthetic if you want your warranty. They told me there is a "zero" wear tolerance for something. I guess it is the cam running the injection pump? The oil is made in Germany, but is brand named. 10,000 mile oil changes too. I have run Amsoil synthetic for years at extended drain in many things. I even use synthetic 2 stroke oil at almost 100:1 ratio in all the 2 stroke stuff I own no matter what it calls for. ....

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beagle
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2005-08-26          115470

We use Kubota or Rotella-T 15w40 year round. Tried straight 30 in the hot weather, but didn't like the may the machine sounded. Stayed with the 15w40 since. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-26          115479

Motorcycles and ATVs are probably harder on oil than any other vehicle that I know because the same oil is used in the transmission and the molecules get continually sheared to shorter lengths. Multiviscosity oils are made by taking a base oil (first number in 5W40) such as 5W and then adding modifiers (thickeners) to make it perform like 40W oil when the engine is running at full temperature. This oil will act like 5W oil at freezing temperatures when straight 40W oil would be like syrup.

Motorcycles don't do particularly well with conventional (S rated) oil, but they do quite well with diesel rated oils. The reason is that diesel oils have extra solid lubricants like zinc and moly to protect the engine at startup. Synthetics have better film strength and hold on to engine parts for a longer period of time. So, they protect an engine better at startup.

When a motorcycle or any other engine for that matter uses oil, the long chain molecules that get sheared from use change the upper number (40 in my example) so that the oil will tend to get thinner and thinner with use. Thinning and contamination are why we have to change oil at regular intervals. Thinner oils help with cold weather starting, but are much worse for an engine at operating temperature. Synthetics are designed from scratch to be multiviscosity and respond differently. That is why big 18 wheel trucks can get by on 50K oil changes when synthetics are used and you can go to 15K intervals with your car on Mobil 1.

So, compared to a motorcycle for oil, my tractor is like a walk in the park. But, I use only synthetic oil in my stuff because it is a lot cheaper than an new engine. I don't run extended change intervals because with a tractor or off-road vehicle contamination is a problem and so I change oil at the recommended interval even though my oil may be useful for a longer period.

I have raced motorcycles/cars in the Baja 1000 and I rode open class racing bikes in the California Desert. I have had good success with synthetic oils in the worst possible conditions. I use Shell Rotella T synthetic when I want 5W40 and Delvac Synthetic when I want 15W40. Either is good oil and I have never had an oil related failure except on 2 stroke engines.

If you choose to run extended oil change intervals to save money, put on a new filter at the oil change interval and bring the oil to full level. Oil filters will only hold so much grit and soot. When an oil filter plugs with particles, it bypasses the oil and does not filter the oil at all. Do not use permanent (metal screen) oil filters as the only oil filter; they do not filter fine micron particles and plug up.

Sorry for the long detailed post, but this is not a simple subject. Your opinions may differ. Mine are forged from thousands of miles of racing in the worst conditions. ....

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DRankin
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2005-08-26          115480

I like it. Very informative. Thanks. ....

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kwschumm
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2005-08-26          115481

Yes indeed, very informative post. Thanks. ....

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taheide
Join Date: Oct 2004
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2005-08-26          115483

Good post. One thing to keep in mind on Diesel engines is the soot factor that you dont get with either 2 or 4 stroke gas engines. With that in mind and using a bypass filtration system, you can go the extra miles between changes with synthetics, but using a stock filter system, the soot buildup in the oil whether synthetic or dino will cause shorter oil life, so the added cost of a syn in a diesel IMO isnt worth it. My tractor gets changed by the book, my truck gets changed when I get the time since it is a daily driver so going over always happens. The blackstone reports are the key to knowing if I have gone too far, and so far, 8 to 9K changes on dino are working quite well. ....

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tsterkel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 45 Texas
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2005-08-26          115484

I am a synthetic enthusiast, I use 5w-40 in my diesel cars bu would recommend 15w-40 on all non-turbos. This would be
Shell's Rotella T "Synthetic", Delo, Delvac 1300,

watch OUT!
IF you do not clearly see one or more of the following Diesel Specs on the label, you should NOT buy!

"CG-4" or "CH-4" or "CI-4"

I am not certain if any of the 15w-40 Mobils meet these specs. (Mobil Truck and SUV does)

....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-26          115486

Delvac is Mobil's diesel oil. As far as I am concerned the newer S ratings for gasoline engines are more about politics, CAFE milage standards and much less about lubrication and vehicle life. I think that the current standard is SJ, but IMO this oil is not as good as older SG. Oils marked with EC for energy conserving sound nice, but they are generally lighter oils and do not protect the engine as well. Diesel oils are rated with a C rating and the big fleets use Rotella, Delo, and Delvac. I don't have anything against Amsoil, but I can buy the three above at most Walmarts and all truck stops.

You might want to ask yourself who might benefit if you use a poorer oil in your vehicle and if there is any political pressure on the manufactures to use less than optimal viscosity oils in cars and trucks that must meet federally mandated milage standards. What do you think that they would recommend if a useful life of 300K miles was required by federal standard?

5W40 and 15W40 preform nearly identically in the engine that is at operating temperature. 5W40 is just much thinner at freezing temperatures and better for starting in cold weather. 15W40 has no benefits over 5W40 except that it is cheaper to make and sell. The point of this is that you will not hurt your engine with 5W40 if the manufacturer calls for 15W40. 5W40 will be thicker in a hot engine than 10W30 and will be easier to start in cold weather. Thicker oil does decrease fuel milage by a few percentage points, but protects the engine better than thinner oils.

One final note...Selecting synthetic oil is simply my choice. If you change your oil and regularly run your engine so that the oil does not drain down off the parts, then synthetic oil will not provide you with measurable benfits over distilled dinosaur juice. But, if you might let your engine sit for a week or just want that extra bit of protection, then synthetic might be for you. I just don't spend all that much on gallons of oil to worry about the cost. And, I get pretty irritated if I call on a piece of my equipment and it is broken or fails to work properly. Synthetics don't break down as quickly and they do handle engine contamination better, but they don't provide huge differences in engines that are running. They provide their benefit in the first few seconds when a cold engine is started and before the oil pressure has fully stabilized. This is when much of the wear on the engine takes place. ....

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tsterkel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 45 Texas
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2005-08-26          115490

AC5Z0, excellent points all around, and very well explained.
As I indicated, I only buy CI-4 diesel rated, but acknowledge that CG-4 and CH-4 are likely excellent for tractors.

As for Amsoil, I am uncomfortable with it as Amsoil refuses to get it out for formal external testing. ....

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091755
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 143 brantwood wisconsin
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2005-08-26          115495

gene13
I pretty much use Shell Rotella in everything I own
I dont care for synthetic's either.
Dont see the need to change what has worked for
me for over 20 years.
I am sure Kubota's oil is fine. I just dont see
using something that you replace with something
that expensive. I change oil every 50 hours or
sooner

doc ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-08-26          115498

Are you one of those guys that refuses to buy a microwave because a toaster oven has worked well for the past 20 years or the guy that refuses to get a cell phone because the pay phone works so well. Just kidding doc, I can see both sides of the argument. A maintained cut engine will outlast the rest of the tractor, the same can be said of diesels in many cars and small trucks. Not quite as true for big trucks and tractors/equipment. New tech. requires improvements and that is what synthetic is. Besides less wear, it uses less oil and maintenance time with extended drains, good for us all. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2005-08-26          115501

I pulled the heads on a gas engine with over 100k miles on it that has used synthetic it's entire service life. The engine was sparkling clean with zero wear on the cams. I mean zero. You could still see the machine marks. I was sold on the spot and use nothing but synthetics in any engine I care about. ....

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taheide
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2005-08-28          115542

I can say the same for Dino. I had a Ford 5.0 that I had rebuilt to specs, ran it for almost 300K on Castrol GT 10W30 oil only and motorcraft filters. The car it was in rusted out to the point it was no longer safe so I yanked the motor and dropped it into an 85 Grand Marquis which required swapping the intake and oil pan. While I had the pan off I plastigauged the crank. No wear at all after almost 300K on it with Castrol. The crosshatching looked as good as when the engine block was first received from the machine shop, the valley was spotless, didnt even have that brown tinge, and the oil pretty much stayed clear between changes, never had it go black, just a dark brown, and I drove it hard. What it boils down to is use a good oil, whether dino or syn, you will get good results. ....

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kwschumm
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2005-08-28          115544

Hmm. My experience with Castrol dino oil was good but not that good. I always used Castrol prior to switching to synthetic and those engines always had some carmelization and wear. The design of the engine lubrication system plays a major role in this I'm sure. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-28          115559

There are more variables in the life of an engine than just oil. For example %max power operation, storage environment, storage time, difference between environment and operating temperature, duration of trips...the list goes on.

My old beat up pickup has only taken two trips over 1000 miles. One was the 1993 Baja 1000 and the other was the 1994 Baja 1000 as a support truck. It has also made trips into the California desert and Death Valley. Other than that, this vehicle usually makes trips of less than 15 miles. It is a 1992 K2500 with a 350 V8. It has always run Mobil 1. It has 93,000 miles on it, so you can tell that it does not take long trips. It has sat for a month between starts. It does not use any oil. I change oil at about 4000 mile intervals and the oil only takes on a slightly browner tinge between changes. Other than changing filters, fluids and doing normal maintenance it has never required significant maintenance.

This truck has had hard trips, short trips, periods of storage, outside storage, and has even occasionally been attacked by pack rats. Except for living in a moderate climate, this truck has not had an easy life.

Every now and then I keep thinking that I would like to have a new truck, but like a comfortable pair of old shoes, this truck has nothing wrong with it.

I believe that this truck's longevity is the result of proper lubrication with synthetic oil. This is not my only such story. I also had an 82 Toyota that went through several Baja races as a support truck and as a professional guide vehicle for Adventure Treks in Baja. It ran synthetic engine oil. I had to rebuild the transmission at about 60K miles but the engine was fine. This truck was sold in 1992 with about 150K miles on it to someone that wanted a truck to run in the 1992 Baja 500.

I also have a 1969 Class V Baja Bug race car. I don't have an odometer on it, but it had 150K on it when I took it out. This engine has run on synthetic since the rebuild at 150K. I also replaced the oil screen with a full flow oil filter. This vehicle has been highly modified. Right now, this vehicle is stored, but aside from putting new oil and battery in it, it should start and run. I know my way around an engine.

I also had one of the original Mazda RX7s. Its engine was marginal at about 100K miles. I have also had an Olds Delta 88 custom, Olds 442, and other cars that have never made 100K miles before engine rebuild. None of these vehicles ever used synthetic oil. Same driver, but very different results with synthetic oil.

New technology vs Old. My dad always bought bias ply tires. Not just that, he would buy the least expensive bias ply tires. It was an annual ritual to buy new tires. There were radial tires available, but we never bought such expensive tires. When I got my Olds 442, I wanted better tire performance. I used the car as project vehicle in my Automotive Engineering classes. I made that car handle as well as being very fast. It had radial tires that cost probably 3X what the bias ply tires would cost, but they would last 5X longer and improved handling. The only bias ply tires that I have bought since then are for my wheelbarrow.

You may use synthetic or not. Other than cost, I know of nothing that is superior about non-synthetic oil. If you are worried about the cost, then there are also so called semi-synthetic oils. These are oils that are engineered from dino juice feedstock and they are better than the simple purified mineral oil. Some synthetic oils are really semi-synthetic oils. They are very good oils, also. It is your choice.

But, like Ken, I am sold on synthetics. I know where conventional oil will work, but that pattern does not fit how I use my vehicles. ....

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gene13
Join Date: Nov 2004
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2005-08-28          115568

Thanks guys for all the input!!!
The one name that came up the most was, Rotella T Synthetic,
it seems to be the most popular, therefore I've decided I can't go to wrong with using the Rotella T Synthetic 5w 40w.

Is there a better oil filter than the stock Kubota filter?? ....

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taheide
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2005-08-29          115576

It's best to stick with the Bota filter, I have yet to find a decent aftermarket one. Stay away from Fram, I have heard nothing but bad news on that brand of filter. They use a cardboard spacer on the bottom of the filter that has been known to fail. THere have been many threads on another board I go to regarding diesels and Fram filter discussions are always coming up and 90% agree that the filters are not worthy of a diesel. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-29          115577

I agree about Fram being one of the worst oil filters. They are probably OK when new, but they tend to fill up quickly and bypass dirty oil. They also use a cardboard endcap on the filter element instead of metal like most other filter manufacturers.

I prefer WIX filters. NAPA auto parts sells WIX filters as their Gold line of filters. I have switched over to using the NAPA filters and I am very happy with them on my NH tractor. Purolator makes some good filters if you can even find them but I prefer the WIX construction. Purolator ties a string around the element during manufacture and I don't like the idea of that string touching the filter media and possibly wearing a hole in it, but I have never heard of this being a problem with Purolator.

OEM filters are generally pretty good. Avoid Fram and most of the in-house brand filters that are discount priced. Don't extend the time on filter replacement even if you extend your oil change interval with synthetic oil. ....

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taheide
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2005-08-30          115630

Yes, WIX are good filters. I believe they are made by the same manufacturer of Motorcraft and Puralator filters. If you can find a Motorcraft filter to fit the tractor, by all means use it. Since my cars and truck are all Fords, I use nothing but Motorcraft. I will check on the WIX for my Bota though. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-30          115660

WIX and Purolator are different manufacturers and manufacturing methods. I don't know about Motorcraft. ....

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Art White
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2005-08-31          115705

Gene, many years ago when the Detroit Diesel was popular the truckers all loved Rotella. They said there was no reason to buy good oil as they were just going to throw it on the road. It is available easy but is far from what I feel specs out good. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-31          115718

I can assure you that Rotella, Delo, and Delvac are all superior to standard S grade automotive oils. There are specialty oil manufacturers that will produce high quality blends in S and C grades. I don't know how branded Kubota, JD or NH oil compare in that regard. I am sure that they are good oils or the manufacturers would not support them. But the availability of the Rotella, Delo, and Delvac is better.

Don't confuse Shell Rotella T and Shell Rotella T Synthetic. That is like comparing conventional oil with Mobil 1 or Amsoil. Rotella T is a very good oil, and the Rotella T Synthetic is a great oil. As I said previously, I use it in everything I own. (not just diesels) ....

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ejkessler
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2005-09-10          116195

All of the information with these posts has been very helpful and informative. I have a '97 powerstroke and a bx22. I have started using Amsoil in all my cars and truck and Mobil 1 syn. in all my gas small engines. Maybe it is just my imagination, but when I switched from the Rotella 15w40 dino to the Amsoil 15w40 I believe the engine feels like it runs smoother. I drive about 7k a year and the truck sits for a week or two at a time. I am planning on changing the filter on the truck every 7k and the oil after 20k like Amsoil recommends (if it screws me up I'll let you know). The synthetics are considerabley more expensive, engine repair or replacement has really gotten expensive. It only makes sense that technology would provide an effective advantage if possible. I did want to ask if the Bota oil is fully synthetic or not. I went out earlier today and bought the 5w40 rotella synthetic as recommended earlier. I still have enough Bota oil for another change and was interested in knowing the difference. ....

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Chief
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2005-09-10          116198

I would be very hesitant to run any oil that long in an internal combustion engine without a bypass filter or a spinner filter, especially in a diesel as the soot suspension characteristic degrade over time. An oil filter will not remove soot and other contaminants. Powerstrokes are more sensitive in this area as the anti-foaming additive package is not designed to go that long without being changed. At least be sure to take oil samples and have them evaluated. Just my 2 cents worth. ....

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ejkessler
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2005-09-10          116200

Thanks for the reply. Where do you usually go to take an oil sample to be tested? I am definitely interested in following up with this on a regular basis. I am going by what the Rep at Amsoil said but regular monitoring would seem to be in order. ....

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Chief
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2005-09-10          116210

Blackstone Oil Labs seems to be who most people use. Best to change the oil at specified intervals but extended oil change intervals can make sense in larger fleet over the road trucks and other fleet vehicles. Amsoil makes good oil but there is nothing magic about it. Use a good oil and good filter and change when called for and you can't go wrong. I like Fleetguard Stratpore filters. ....


Link:   Blackstone Laboratories

 
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taheide
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Posts: 127 Capron IL
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2005-09-11          116218

"Powerstrokes are more sensitive in this area as the anti-foaming additive package is not designed to go that long without being changed."

99 and up this is true, the older models have an injector pump that isnt as sensitive to foaming. The newer engines have injectors that are fired using oil pressure, not a pump. The injectors are in the heads along with the fuel rails. Oil runs in the heads to each injector via a high pressure oil pump. If the oil starts to foam the pressure drops and the injectors fail to fire. Real messy too. If you are going to waste money on amsoil then by all means put a bypass system on, otherwise you arent getting any better protection than with Rotella T. Also Always use a Motorcraft filter for the Stroke, there are no other filters that are as effective for the Stroke than Motorcraft. I would think twice before using an unrated oil, no matter what the company that sell it says, in an engine that costs $10,000 to replace. ....

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BEST ENGINE OIL TO USE

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2005-09-11          116222

Good point on the oil for the power stroke engine by Ford or Navistar depending on which application. That's why I won't recommend oil or a filter that is designed for diesel trucks and cars for the full throttle full load use of tractors! When spending the money to buy what is thought to be the best equipment we can afford, why don't we first look at who makes a product that we can abuse day to day and can get by the longest on the cheapest oil and filters! Who knows, it still might be the same equipment or? I do believe in oil samples but if they don't know what the oil consists of to begin with then you may draw alarm for nothing. ....

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