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 | Kevinator
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4 Louisiana 
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2005-01-02 103335
Buying a new L 3830 with 723 loader and want Kubota backhoe. I had rear hyd installed. Which hoe would be better (BL4690B or BH90. Is the BH90 hoe cheeper since it is not self contained. My dealer is trying to sell me the smaller BL4690B hoe, but I was thinking since I have rear hyd go with the BH90. Is this hoe to big for A L3830 Any help before I buy would be greatly app. Thanks,Kevin
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2005-01-03 103340
I don't waiver in my response, BH90! Don't hesitate well, better built machine. The BH 90 uses a frame mount simuliar to the L-48-35-39 and the B-20-21 hook up. Does that say anything? To the second part of the question, yes it is large enough for it. ....
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| Kevinator
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4 Louisiana
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2005-01-03 103351
Thanks for the info. How hard is the BH90 to mount and remove. I use my tractor with 3 point hitch att. does the lift arms have to be removed to put it on.Just trying to see the difference in the two Kubota hoes, since my dealer did not know. I want the bigger hoe if it is simple to remove so I can mount my other attachments. Thanks,Kevin ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2005-01-03 103372
I don't do it that often to help much but it can be done the first time in less then ten minutes and after that it seems to be around five minutes with knowledge of the pieces and the proper placement of the pieces. The chassis frame work makes it so much stronger to work with. ....
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| bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2005-01-05 103538
I had the same questions and choices when I bought a BH for my 3130. I chose the BL4890 on my dealers advice and because I would be switching from the hoe to 3 pt implememnts often. I also liked the self contained pump better than using the tractor pump. If I had to do it again, I would choose the BH90, not that the BL4690 is a bad BH. The BL4690 is everything I expected and more but I would really appriciate the extra reach and sturdyness of the BH90 and I dont switch back and forth between implements as much as I thought I would. Im still a fan of a PTO pump though. ....
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| Kevinator
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4 Louisiana
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2005-01-05 103610
Thanks for the info. I will get the BH90. Is $6525.00 with a 16" bucket plus tax a good price. ....
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 | dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-01-07 103761
That is a good hoe and it sounds like a competitive price. In my experience, there is no good reason to get the PTO hydraulic pump for any modern CUT. Your tractor has excellent built-in hydraulics and you should be able to operate that unit at little more than medium engine speed.
Adding the quick disconnect hoses is less expensive and more flexible than paying extra for PTO (self-contained) hyd. pump. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2005-01-07 103789
The other good part of it is it keeps the oil in the system as fresh as in your tractor. We from time to time see the contained system ruined from moisture. ....
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| bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2005-01-07 103795
Thats exactly one of the reasons why I like it. Better to ruin my BH system than the whole tractor. Heres the scinario, the BH sits static for long periods of time collecting moisture in the lines, fittings and cylinders and dirt from the fittings and cylinders then plug it into the tractor system.
I know, "just how much contamination is a closed system going to get". Probably not much but if it does get some, it wont be transmitted to the tractor.
I figure my hyd pump gets a good workout on a regular basis running the loader and the only thing I run off the PTO right now is the BH, I spread the wear out a little.
Ive only owned a tractor for 1.5 years so im no expert by any stretch. These are just things I tried to take into consideration and could be (probably) wrong on one or more of these points.
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| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. 
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2005-01-08 103796
I prefer runnig straight off the tractor (no PTO pump)
This is how I look at it. No PTO pump to hook up or buy.
Backhoe sits for long period of time possibly drawing in moisture, I plug it into my tractor, fresh oil is pumped into the backhoe. The tractor gets run on a regular basis getting the transmission oil good and hot quickly cooking out the moisture it drew in from the backhoe, so my tractor transmission and backhoe are both now moisture free. ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2005-01-10 103892
I chose the PTO pump to run the BH on my L3130 for a couple of reasons. One of which is the fluid contamination issue mentioned before. My BH is on at least it's third owner an who knows what sort of oil was in it. Also with the PTO pump I now have hydraulic power for my other tractor and/or other projects.
Dave ....
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| dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-01-10 103944
The issue of sharing hydraulic oil and filter with the backhoe (or not sharing by using a PTO pump) deserves more analysis.
I don't know how often most of you change your hydro filter and oil, but I suspect not real often. The filter ($25 +/-) and 7 gal of oil ($70) is usually used for years and years. I will bet that the oil and filter on a PTO pump setup almost never gets changed. Art has pointed that out.
Here is something else to consider. A PTO pump/filter/reservoir has its own air breather and is not a "closed" system. Air must be drawn in and out of the reservoir everytime the b/h is used. Compare that to a b/h that has NO air in the system, sealed off by the quick-disconnect hose fittings. Which hoe is going to be in better shape internally after a few years sitting around, possibly outside?
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-01-11 103979
"Here is something else to consider. A PTO pump/filter/reservoir has its own air breather and is not a "closed" system. Air must be drawn in and out of the reservoir everytime the b/h is used. Compare that to a b/h that has NO air in the system, sealed off by the quick-disconnect hose fittings."
I don't agree with your statement. There can only be very slight differences in reservoir volume when I'm using my PTO pumped BH. It constantly circulates until a valve is pulled. Fluid is redirected to one of several rams but as one side of the ram fills, the other side empties. So flow back into the reservoir is constant.
Dave ....
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| dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-01-11 104012
All hydraulic systems require a reservoir with an air breather to allow entry/exit of air during operation of the cylinders. If there was truly an equal amount of fluid entering and exiting the reservoir every time a cylinder is operated, then the reservoir would be very small or non-existant.
The fact is that the amount of air entering/exiting is quite significant. For a cylinder with a stroke of 20" and a rod size of 1.125", that volume is appoximately 20 cubic inches for a full extension or retraction. Every time.
The push and pull sides of the cylinder have different volumes. BTW, this is why "regen" valves work. The same pressure is applied to both sides of a cylinder simultaneously. The "push" side of the cylinder sees more net push force, since the "pull" side has the rod inside it. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-11 104013
"BTW, this is why "regen" valves work. The same pressure is applied to both sides of a cylinder simultaneously. The "push" side of the cylinder sees more net push force, since the "pull" side has the rod inside it."
So what you are saying then is when I pull on the lever of a 'regen' type valve, it doesn't matter which way I move the lever, the cylinder will ALWAYS extend only since there is a rod on the pull side?
I don't think so.
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-01-11 104015
"The fact is that the amount of air entering/exiting is quite significant. For a cylinder with a stroke of 20" and a rod size of 1.125", that volume is appoximately 20 cubic inches for a full extension or retraction."
OK, I'll agree with that. So for my 10 gal reservoir the air that exchanges with each cycle of your 20" cylinder is about 1% of the reservoir air volume. I suppose "quite significant" is a relative term and dust can enter. But that's what filters are made for. I think my BH system's filters are about $5.00 each.
Dave ....
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| dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-01-11 104024
>> So what you are saying then is when I pull on the lever of a 'regen' type valve, it doesn't matter which way I move the lever, the cylinder will ALWAYS extend only since there is a rod on the pull side? <<
No, I did not say that at all. You operate your valve handle to extend the cylinder. "Regen" is a method of supplying more fluid to the cylinder extension side than the pump can supply by itself. Hence the cylinder moves faster. Where can the system get fluid under pressure other than from the pump? Only one place: the other side of the cylinder. The down side of all this is that the net force exerted by the cylinder is quite low.....the difference between the extend and retract forces. This method of "regen" works only in the extend mode.
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| JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2005-01-21 104650
dont forget the expansion/contraction of the hydraulic fluid as the temperature rises and falls during use and the added volume in a tank acts as a heat sink ,however the body of the tractor is a larger tank and heat sink . ....
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