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 | DennoAce
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 105 usa 
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2004-09-09 96057
Any opinions on using diesel/heating oil (#2 fuel) vs. Kerosene (#1 fuel) in diesel engines?
- 50/50 mix been used by years up here in Maine when it's cold in heavy equip.
- K1 is much cleaner but more money.
- Diesel fuel has more oil which may lube pump, etc better but can gel and dirtier.
I have been using straight kero since that what I have for heating oil (hence convenient), but I'm wondering if it may harm my injection pump over long periods of time.
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2004-09-09 96064
I'll leave the real diesel advice to the experts but I was surprised that on this website it says that mercedes recommends a mix of 30% gasoline in diesel in very cold climates. ....
Link: difference between kerosene and diesel
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2004-09-09 96082
Sometime back in the 70's I used to help my folks who ran a Mom and Pop sevice station in our home town. We had had a big snowstorm and the temps were below zero. A local farmer had a brand new 4430 John Deere with a loader on it, he was in town pushing snow. The tractor started to jell up on him so he drove it up to the gas pump and told me to put 5 gal of gas in the tank. I had never heard of this and almost begged him not to do that to a brand new tractor, but he insisted so I pumped the gas in. To my amazment the engine smoothed out, got back it's normal sound and power. he pushed snow the rest of the day and to my knowledge it ran for years after that without a problem. I still would have a hard time puting gas in the diesel tank, but it seemed to work for him. What ever you do please don't do this as a recommendation from me. Just a past experience. Frank. ....
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2004-09-10 96104
There is scads of discussion in the archives. Bottom line is you will destroy your pump with straight kero. Pumps have to have the lubrication that comes with fuel oils.
I run a 50/50 blend heating oil (dyed off road) and kero during the winter. Straight fuel summer. ....
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| its_that_guy@yahoo.c
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2004-09-13 96329
A few years back while visiting an Exxon distribution plant in Northern VA for work, they had a sign indicating their winter blend of 'on road' diesel (low sulfur) was 20% kero..
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-09-13 96335
I disagree with some of the info. in the above link. Here is a link that I think gives a good break down of cetane and octane ratings as well as what and why various additves are blended into fuels. ....
Link: Cetane rating
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 | bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 185 Upstate, NY
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2004-09-13 96338
If you put a drip of kero on one finger and a drip of diesel, and you rub it between your fingers you can feel the lubricity of the two, diesel clearly has more lube than the kero.
I have just finished my Fuel Rig and needed to fill it with thirty gallons. I wanted to fill it with off road diesel, as pump diesel is 2.08 - 1.98 still. Unfortunate the local fuel companies wouldn’t deliver any less that 150 gal, too much for me. Since my outdoor fuel tank 275 gal, for heating was about empty I had the fuel company bring me 150 of heating oil. So I filled the barrel with the 30 of fuel oil - what some seem to say is the same as off road – red. I will top the fuel oil for the house with kero before it gets to cold. I empty the tractors tank and refilled with the heating oil. The heating oil seams to be a little more aromatic than the pump diesel, and still had the lube to it.
The tractor started right up on it and ran normal. The only differences I noticed was the exhaust smoked a little bit longer and whiter until I went and mowed in full throttle, and warmed very thing up. Also the tractor was missing power while driving up a step hill and mowing through very thick stuff. In the past this kind of mowing didn’t loose as much power on pump diesel.
Conclusion... For anyone who has read this far... LOL
The heating fuel oil works find for normal requirements. It does not have the same bang for the buck as pump diesel. It would run a tractor great for using the wood splitter or simple mowing, generator tasks. I will add Cetane Boost {Power Service) 6 point gray bottle, and see how this does after I empty this tank full.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-09-13 96341
I suspect you will see a distinct increase in performance. I will be very interested to hear your observations.
My first tractor was a Deere 4100 Gear. It smoked all the time, clattered, and started hard on pump diesel. It all cleared up inside of 5 minutes when I added a clean-up dose of Red Line 85 Plus directly into the fuel tank. It was quite amazing to watch. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-09-13 96344
Until the most recent generation of trucks, Fords had the option of dual tanks, switchable from the cab 'on the fly'.
When hauling my boat between Ontario and Florida I used to ALWAYS keep one tank full off Canadian diesel fuel. One of the guys that drove alongside of me thought I was nuts when he first heard about it... until I started leaving him behind on the hills. He tried it later and found the same thing. The difference between the cheap (inexpensive) Georgia fuel and the stuff we brought from home could make as much as 10 mph difference on some hills.
Best of luck. ....
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| bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 185 Upstate, NY
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2004-09-13 96347
Murf,
What is the cetane you guys have up there?
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-09-13 96351
'Regular' pump diesel is usally about 45, 'premium' pump diesel is about 50, but I suspect it was more to do with our fuel being a 'winter blend' and the truck stops on the interstate subscribing to the 'you get what you pay for' adage, the lower the price, the lower the accelerator pedal had to be positioned.....
There is a new option up here, Bio-diesel at the pump, it is a blend of 'bio' and 'dino' diesel, I don't know what they put in it but does it ever wake up a tweaked out PSD.
Best of luck. ....
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| chevytruck13
Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 19 Bismarck ND
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2004-09-13 96391
I will be honest I didn't know #1 Diesel was kerosene. But I do know that for the winter months my dad had the farm service tank filled with strait #1 for his JD 6210. I don't know what the cloud point is for a winter blend but I think it is -40 deg F for strait #1. Here in ND you can see -30 usually at least once a winter. Since I won't be using my 2210 for anything at night when things are that cold (No cab unlike the 6210) I will probably just run the winter blend at the local service station. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-09-14 96397
Winter blend in ND probably is straight #1. It gets -30F here too and straight #1 plus an all-in-one additive has prevented and problems. Pump lubricant likely produces adequate lubrication. I've heard cloud points of -25F for #1 diesel. I think of kerosene as the expensive stuff that smells less when it's burnt in lamps.
My oil dealer says that anti-gel doesn't turn summer #2 into #1 and it will gel when it's really cold. I usually make my own winter blend by starting to top up the tank with #1 around October. The trouble is that there's no such thing as off-road winter blend diesel around here. I'd risk ending up with a full tank of #2 and find myself in a December cold snap otherwise. For taxed fuel users, it's good to start asking what blend a station is pumping around November depending on how much fuel is used. Low volume stations may not get a delivery of winter blend till it's really cold. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-09-14 96416
I don't believe Kerosene and #1 diesel are the same. Kerosene may be the base for #1 diesel.
It is possible that #1 home heating oil and kerosene are the same but I think kerosene is more highly refined and filtered because it is used as a solvent and as an indoor lamp oil.
Anything labeled and sold as diesel will have additive in it to make it run well in internal combustion engines.
Likewise, kerosene may be the base for jet fuel but not the same due to the additive package.
In a pinch, all the above will run your tractor..... but then so will vegetable oil.
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| bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 185 Upstate, NY
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2004-09-14 96423
Maybe this should start a new thread,
But has any one tried or have used waste vegetable oil {WVO} or straight vegetable oil {SVO}
I’ve been intrigued to make my diesel smell like fries LOL.
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-09-14 96426
There's a tree-hugger near me, the locals just call him 'the hippie' who has an old M-B diesel that he runs on WVO, I know 'cause he was arrested last year for stealing it, yes, stealing it, from behind a Mickey Dee's in town in the middle of the night.
I have read a lot about the whole process, because I built a heater for my shop that burns used motor oil, it works great BTW, and a lot of the 'green oil' concepts are shared on the same sites.
The two main problems are apparently cleaning the oil, and getting it to run when it's cold out, most start on 'Dino' diesel, then switch over to WVO after the motor and WVO is warm. Usually they run a water jacket from the cars heater circuit to the WVO tank to pre-heat the fuel.
Best of luck. ....
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 | AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-09-14 96433
Try this one out for size. ....
Link: Greasel
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 | ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2004-09-14 96439
What surprised me recently was that my mother's 13HP honda gas generator (NAC brand) was accidentally running on kerosene! My sister had accidentally topped of the last tank with kerosene in a power outage and the generator continued to run until shut down. A couple of months later I went to test the generator and it wouldn't start. So I put starter fluid in the air intake and it took off but it was not running as smooth as it should be. Studying the situation I realized the fuel was looking mighty bad. When I realized it was kerosene I drained the tank, refilled and immediately the engine smoothed out and restarted quickly by hand. I wonder if we did any damage. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-09-14 96446
Probably you did no damage. We had a thread going a couple years ago about old farm tractors that started on gasoline and then were switched to "farm fuel" when they warmed up.
Near as we could tell the farm fuel was some version of kerosene. ....
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| JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2004-09-30 97443
when I was driving trucks in the army we were running "mogas" in everything 2 1/2 tons and larger equiped with the multi fuel engines and remembering very well running 50 % gas to keep them running all night and from freezing up at -50 in MONTANA ....
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| jdgreen
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 232 Maryland
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2004-10-02 97533
I found this discussion of fuel questions that has alot of good information. Some of it is kind of technical though. ....
Link: fuel discussion
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| jdgreen
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 232 Maryland
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2004-10-02 97534
Sorry, but the link doesn't seem to work. If you type in "What is the difference between diesel and kerosene?" on the Ask Jeeves web site, you get quite a few interesting hits. ....
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| ejkessler
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95 Northern CT
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2004-10-03 97601
#1 diesel is not the same as kerosene. I just had 150 gallons of winterized diesel delivered to prepare for the upcoming rise in prices this winter. I specifically asked for the premium grade. It was explained to me that #1 diesel is in general is a high grade fuel. Meaning higher cetane and less sulfer. For the winter they then add 40% kerosene and additives (anti-gel). The farmers and heavy equipment operators have been swearing by this dealers fuel mixture for over 20 years now. I was told that #2 fuel is very close if not the same as heating oil and offroad diesel (has the red dye added).I only run the #1 premium grade. Injector and pump repair is just not worth the differnce. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-10-05 97705
There are some drastic regional differences.
I can only get winterized #2, there is no premium or #1 fuel available. ....
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| jimbrown
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 56 Cochise cnty Az
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2004-10-05 97711
This guy on the link is confused. JP4 is not the same as kerosene maybe Jet A or JP5 but not JP4. Jp4 is a mixture of kerosene and gasoline. Mixed appoximately 60/40 it is designed to be the most flamable of all jet fuels. I a not sure but I do not think it is being used any more except for maybe Anartica or so other extreme cold area ....
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| bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 185 Upstate, NY
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2004-10-05 97712
DRankin,
Well I got some seat time this past weekend, and had to refill. I filled up with the 6 point boost heating oil, and the smoke is less and I have more pulling power.. I'll be adding some anti-gel, and more boost soon just to see if it will improve some more...
This morning it was about 30 degrees out and she fired right up and ran as normal, being cold at first the smoke was slightly blue-gray... I did not use any preheater..
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