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millers1
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-07-14          90872

Need to ballast the rear tires of a 2210.
Suggestions on the type of fluid to use and best way to get it in there? Obviously, I'd like to avoid freezing, minimize corrosion and use something that is the least toxic possible. Suggestions?


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kubotaguy
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2004-07-14          90873

I have antifreeze in my tires which has worked well. The downside is if you get a flat, and you have animals there could be an issue. Some other alternatives are beet juice which is enviro friendly. Some of the others are the windshield washer fluid and finally the foam. The foam is the most expensive but then you don't have to worry about flats but I think it also stiffens the ride as well. ....

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beagle
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2004-07-14          90876

Foam is a great solution for puncture flat tires, but not so good for ballast. There is a poduct called Rim-Guard that is specifically formulated for ballasting tires. I'm not sure what it is formulated from, but does not have the corrosive effect of CaCl. You may check with you dealer and see if they have it available. I had my dealer fill my tires with Rim-Guard. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-14          90877

millers1,
Curious as to why you're thinking of this. I have a 2210 and have been wondering if I should do the same. With the FEL I use the wt. bkt. full of concrete, but while doing other things the tractor feels a little tippy.
JDFANATIC ....

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beagle
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2004-07-14          90878

miller can speak for the 2210, but I can tell you that ballasted tires do make the tractor more stable. Not only do they increase the tipping capacity of the tractor, it also lowers the center of gravity and makes the tractor more stable.

Be aware that once it's in there, it's in there. The same benefits can be had from adding rear wheel weights, which can be easily removed when you want to shed some weight. Make sure you want to "permanently" add the weight. ....

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DRankin
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2004-07-14          90881

I much prefer bolting iron to the rims to filling them with fluid. Wheel weights for most garden tractors will fit your 2210. ....

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ScooterMagee
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2004-07-14          90884

Although a little more pricey, wheel weights tend to be more convent and practical on the sub-CUT size tractors. JD’s weights are very pricey, however there are other systems out there. ....

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millers1
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-07-14          90915

JDfanatic... I have a ballast box to compensate for when the FEL has a real heavy load. I'm using the tractor in hilly terain and wanted the loaded tires for light FEL loads (when the ballast box is too much) and general stability. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-15          90936

millers1,
Thanks, that's similar to my situation. So load the tires or wts? I'm not crazy about wts. I've heard WW fluid is a possibility. What are you leaning towards?
JDFANATIC ....

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busguy
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2004-07-15          90940

I used ww/fluid 10gl each tire. broke the top bead on a automotive tire machine poured it in and inflated the tires. Works well for the snow blower and doesn't seem to tear up the lawn. I use the ballast box filled with concrete for loader work. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-15          90943

busguy,

Only 10 gal's/tire? That doesn't seem like a lot of weight. Was that an amount you chose or was it limited by size or the method you used to fill them?

JDFANATIC ....

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DRankin
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2004-07-15          90963

I am surprised you can get 10 gallons into a 12x12-26 tire. I would have guessed less. ....

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ScooterMagee
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2004-07-15          90966

I think the total volume per tire, for that size of tire, would be about 22 gallons. Assuming, of course, that you could get it totally full. ....

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Murf
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2004-07-15          90967

One cubic foot is 7.48052 US gallons (6 Imperial gallons) so ten gallons would only be about one and one third cubic feet, that’s not a lot of space.

10 gallons just seems like a lot if you have to carry it very far..... ;-p

Best of luck
....

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DRankin
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2004-07-15          90973

Scooter.... 12 inch rim, 12 inches wide, 26 inches tall. ....

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ScooterMagee
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2004-07-15          90976

Okay, I realize its really rough numbers, but I took (13^2-6^2)*pi*12/231 = 21.7 gals. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-15          90977

DRankin,
(26x26) - (12x12) = 532 x .7854 = 417.83 x 12 =5013.99 c.i. Divide by 1728 (12x12x12) = 2.9 c.f. Using Murf's 7.48 gal's/c.f. that would give 21.7 gal's capacity. So there should be more capacity to load the tires. How much more?
JDFANATIC ....

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chevytruck13
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2004-07-15          90990

Murf something with your numbers doesn't seem right to me. I look at a five gallon pail and there is more than 1 cubic foot of volume inside of it. Are you sure that you don't mean 1 cubic foot of water weighs about 7 lbs. I think 1 cubic foot is closer to 1 gallon than 7. ....

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busguy
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2004-07-15          90991

I found a chart on the net that gives the required liquid ballast for each size tire. I didn't want to fill over the valve stem so my wife wouldn't have to take the tires off to check the pressure.

I have no idea how to attach the document or I would.. I saved it on my computer but don't remember were it was on the net.. ....

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ScooterMagee
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2004-07-15          90996

For water at 62 deg F, 1 US gallon = 231 cu.in. = 8.33 lbs. ....

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beagle
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2004-07-15          91001

Water at 68 degrees F weighs 62.4lbs./cu. ft. There are 7.475 gallons/ cu ft.. Therefore, a gallon of 68 degree water (maximum density) weighs 8.334 lbs/gal. Any additives disolved in the water can change it's density, or weight per unit volume. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-07-15          91003

It seemed odd to me that a cubic foot could hold over 7 gallons of water, but after some consideration it makes sense. We get 4 gallon cases of liquids from time to time and the cases are about a cubic foot in size. There's a lot of wasted space in those boxes. The gallon jugs are each about 6" in diameter and the tops are tapered with a molded handle. I'm sure it would take 3 more gallons to fill the wasted volume in that one cubic foot box. ....

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millers1
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-07-15          91010

I think WW fluid would be my choice but during REAL cold weather, I've seen the stuff turn to slurpy or even freeze... Maybe if I added some extra mentanol to it the freeze point would go down enough to be safe. I'm in the Mid-Atlantic USA> Dealer says they use WW fluid.. ....

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DRankin
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2004-07-15          91019

I am not sure I am following the calculations. Are you subtracting the volume of the rim?

I do know this: when I had filled tires they were 245-70x16's and they went from 70 pounds empty to 190 pounds, filled to the valve stem. I used the bathroom scale to weigh before and after.

If that was plain water.... and it wasn't..... that would be 14.4 gallons. (120/8.33)

That is what I based my opinion on when I said I would be surprised if a BX/2210 rear tire would hold 10 gallons in the real world.

I don't want to start a urination olympics here, but I do have some hard data that doesn't stack up to the math.



....

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busguy
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2004-07-16          91057

If my memory serves me (BIG IF) I think there was still a couple of inches of air space when the tire was laying flat on the tire machine..

....

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kubotaguy
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2004-07-16          91058

millers1,
I have the anti-freeze in my tires and have not had a problem with them freezing. I'm in the eastern panhandle of WV. What part of WV are you in? Are you keeping your tractor in a shed or outside covered with a tarp?

I'm inclined to agree with Mark on the fluid in a tire issue. It's too early in the morning to do a bunch of math, but Mark's logic and real life experience seems correct to me. ....

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beagle
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2004-07-16          91060

The volume calculations check based on a "Square Edge Doughnut", which is close enough for approximation. Realistically, you only fill a tire to about 2/3 to 3/4 it's total volume. You still need an air cushion in the tire. That combined with the fact the tire edges aren't square will give realistic fill volumes. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-16          91067

The formula (there are several ways to get to this) is:

(OD squared) minus (ID squared)
multiplied times .7854 (fraction of pi)
times the width = cubic inches

It does take into consideration the rim (ID) ....

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Murf
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2004-07-16          91069

Millers, I suspect the stuff you saw "turn to slurpy or even freeze" was on the windshield, not in the jug.

The anti-freeze component in WW fluid is alcohol, even at VERY low temeratures it evapourates very rapidly, leaving mostly water behind, it is this that I think you saw slush up.

We use to use a water/alcohol blend in 55 gal. drums for ballast plowing, it never got anywhere near slushing up and I suspect it gets a little colder here in Ontario than it does in WV.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
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2004-07-16          91091

I should say something about the air column.

Everything I have read says to fill the tire standing up... not laying down.... and fill to the valve stem with the stem in the 12 o'clock position.

The remaining air space is there as a cushion, as air will compress and absorb shock loads and water will not. ....

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kubotaguy
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2004-07-16          91102

JDfanatic,
That formula is not entirely correct as the side walls of a tire are not completely straight therefore the amount will vary depending upon where you measure the width of the tire. ....

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busguy
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2004-07-16          91103

DRankin,

You are correct. The chart I used is set up so the tire is filled below the v/s at 12:00. not sure if thats am or pm though. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-16          91108

kubotaguy,

You are correct, although you could probably take the narrowest dimension add it to the widest and divide by two for a pretty acurate average.

JDFANATIC
JD2210 ....

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ScooterMagee
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2004-07-16          91119

I think we’re “splitting hairs” a little with the formula thing. I took it as a rough estimate, approximating the volume of a 12x12-26 tire as “a square edged donut”, (as beagle put it). I believe the formula was only thrown out there, to rationalize and establish the relative magnitude of the volume available. Basically, to determine if we’re talking about 5gal, 10gals, 15gal, 20gals, etc...

To state the obvious: The cross-section of a tire and rim assembly is far too complex, to arrive at an “extremely accurate” volume number by mathematical calculation.

Although, I imagine if you knew the cross-sectional area, you could revolve it about its centroid and arrive at a very accurate volume. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-16          91122

Exactly. So are we in agreement that more than what busguy put in his tires can be put in ours? Perhaps 13-15 gals, so like 105-120 lbs. per tire?

JDFANATIC ....

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ScooterMagee
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2004-07-16          91128

I think I found the "chart" that was mentioned earlier in this thread. For 26x12-12 is does show 10 gals at 75% full. ....


Link:   Tire Ballast Chart

 
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DennoAce
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2004-07-16          91136

In my opinion wheel weights is the obvious way to go. You buy them once...the end. No matter what you put in tires it will be a mess/pain if you get a leak and guess what? The tires will eventually wear out and you will have to start over. Weights last forever. Bolt on/Bolt off.

My 4110 is happy with my weight box with iron/concrete with loader but plan to add some weights to rims some day for those times when box is off (like when using tiller,etc.)
....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-16          91137

All right, all right, you guys have talked me into wheel weights -- I never was that fond of them (they stick out, make it hard to clean the wheels, and cause rust where they contact. I will swing by my dealer and let him vacuum some more hard earned cash out of my wallet...

Cheers.

JDFANATIC ....

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DRankin
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2004-07-16          91138

JDFan...Kubota wheel weights will fit your 2210 perfectly and they are probably a good deal cheaper than Deere prices. They are black and coated with plastic.

Also check the big box stores, many mowers have the same rear rims as the BX/2210 and they sell weights for them. ....

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JDFANATIC
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2004-07-16          91142

DRankin and all, thanks for your all of your posts; it is nice to know this isn't the "Starship Enterprise" and that I'm not going (paraphrased) where "someother tractor hasn't gone..." I will check out ALL brands and options for wheel weights, and will post my selections when they occur.

Cheers!

JDFANATIC
JD2210 ....

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magnus
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2004-07-17          91177

Do you only put wheel weights on REAR? Or do you add them to fronts as well??

Also, on my JD5320 (with the loader off) I'm having a heck of a time trying to counterbalance my 10' cultivator. The tractor came with a 50kg bumper weight already mounted. Anything I can do, other than buy addt'l 50kg weights from the JD dealer? Putting the loader back on is an option but some of the areas I till get kind of tight and the loader can be hard to maneuver. Thanks for any suggestions. ....

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paluvsjoshua
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2004-07-17          91195

Here is a link to a technical study on tractor weight and efficiency. Hope this is informative.
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/ageng2/mf588.pdf
....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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denwood
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2004-07-18          91224

On mid size and larger tractors, front weights are very common. Many are called suitcase weights, are made of cast iron and have a handle cast in. Brackets on the front of tractors allow easy addition or removal of these weights. you may be able to fabricate a bracket and purchase used weights from any ag dealer to hang on when you need them.
As far as fluid is concerned, I don't like it much at all. Yes it is easy and adds necessary weight. But it is a mess if you get a leak or use calcium which rusts the wheel. Where I live calcium is the standard and one local dealer offers weights or calcium as options for the same price. I believe you do get a bit more weight with the fluid than with the max number of weights.
Foam filling is excellent for the smaller tires as it is rather expensive. It is quite heavy and eliminates all flats. I would especially reccomend it for the front tires of tractors with loaders. Mine as well as some friends always seem to get leaks. Maybe because we are always scooping into areas with sharp thorns or nails. Even a tire that looks fine sitting may have too little air when a load is lifted. Never having to worry about that again is so nice. As far as wearing out, unless you have a paved drive that you insist on turning sharply while 4x4 is engaged, or you just run a huge number of hours on a paved surface, you should have no problem with a quality tire. I have machines with over 1000 hours on the original tires that still have 75% tread. Turf tires don't have as much to begin with but I have never worn out a set on any of my mowers. I have no pavement which helps. ....

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magnus
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2004-07-19          91281

Agreed, as far as the front weights. I have 400# of suitcase-style weights on the front of my tractor. But as far as weighting the wheels go, is it advisable to put weights on the front wheels AND the rear, or just the rear? This would be in trying to increase stability for working in uneven terrain, etc. ....

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DRankin
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2004-07-19          91301

Wheel weights on the front wheels will do little or nothing for stability (remember the axle pivots anyway) and they will increase wear and tear on steering components.

Front weights should be in the form of suitcase weights, as mentioned above, mounted on a bumper bracket, or in the form of a FEL. My 410 front end loader on the 4115 weighs 780 pounds, empty. ....

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denwood
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2004-07-19          91366

I believe adding front wheel weights has seen limited use simply because front wheels offer little room for fluid or iron. Initially front wheel weights add no side stability because of the axle pivot. I don't know about any of you but I have three wheeled it with one rear wheel off the ground numerous times and when axle travel limit is reached, weights would add some side stability. Also wheel weights add very little bearing strain compared to tractor weights. A wheel could weigh 1000 pounds and no more weight would be added to the bearing since the wheel supports itself (provided the wheel is balanced side to side) . Add the same weight to the tractor and now the bearing feels it all the time. Also, no matter how much weight you add to the front wheels, the rear of the tractor never gets any lighter. Put on a loader and now the back end is light. I would not hesitate to add front wheel weights. ....

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bvance
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2004-08-09          93096

I have a question regarding side stability on a BX2230. I have some hilly property and when I'm mowing on a side hill I think I should be OK, it just doesn't "feel stable". Would fluid in the tires help? I also have a weight box, but can't see how that would help much for side stability. Any thoughts? ....

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denwood
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2004-08-10          93179

yes, adding weight to the wheels/tires would help in hillside stability, also taking off the loader, that adds weight with a higher center of gravity can help. Sometimes on a small machine like yours, I drive it on a hill that limits my comfort level, and get off. then I push or pull the machine to see if it is near its tipping limit. I have been suprised several times when I thought it was unstable but was unable to even rock a wheel off the ground. After that, I drove on the hill with plenty of confidence. Just watch out for holes or rocks that can throw several more degrees of tilt in a matter of a second. On some of my machines, they will actually slide down the hill sideways before they reach their limit for tipping. ....

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Liquid in rear tires

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2004-08-11          93227

Wheel weights are much more user-friendly than liquid. ....

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