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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-05-04          85165

I am having issues with my hydrostat transmission when going downhill. The hydrostat periodically no longer holds the tractor back and it begins to free wheel down the hill. After a few moments of coasting, the hydrostat will re-engage abruptly. Does anybody know the cause of this?

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-05-04          85167

Are you positive that it is the hydrostatic transmission that is slipping or are the rear tires loosing traciton and sliding down the hill? My 4410 will do this if I attempt going down a steep hill in 2WD. In 4WD I have no problems at all. Have you tried engaging 4WD and attempting the same hill? ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-05-04          85168

How long has it been since you changed hydro filter and cleaned the suction the screen?

They could be almost stopped up and starving the hydro of fluid.
Low fluid level could cause this problem also. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-05-04          85171

I think Billy nailed it.

Our big commercial mowers will do the same thing if the hydro. oil level gets low, going down a steep hill can starve the intake line to the pump.

Best of luck. ....

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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-05-04          85172

Thanks for the info. I will check the filter and screen.
I am sure the fluid is not low. I just checked it the other day. ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-05-04          85222

Well, I changed the filter and cleaned the screen and a quick round trip up and down the driveway (in the dark) seems to indicate it is working much better now. I will test it some more tommorrow. I do have a couple of concerns though. First of all the replacement filter from the dealer was not identical to the one I had. It fit OK but it was about an 1-1/2" longer. Of more concern is that the suction screen was heavily clogged with metal shavings. I would guess I cleaned off about a teaspoons worth. Most of it was very fine, but there were also several bigger pieces about the size of a drill chip. Is this normal??? My tractor has 350 hours on it. According to my operator's manual, I only need to check this stuff every 500 hours. ....

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jdgreen
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 232 Maryland
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2004-05-04          85226

Is this the first time you cleaned the screen? The first hydro oil change, filter change and screen cleaning is scheduled for 50 hours. Then every 500 hours thereafter. The initial time, it is not unusual to have a teaspoon of metal on the screen. If you see that much the next time, I would be concerned. As far as the filter difference I think deere changed to a longer filter for more dirt capacity to prevent clogging at the normal intervals. I hope the fluid and filter change cured your problems. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-04          85228

This is pretty normal for the first change since sometimes there is debris left over from manufacture. Is this the first change? I know the newer JD machines all seem to require a change at 50 hours and each subsequent 200 hours IIRC. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2004-05-04          85229

A couple of years or so ago, John Deere changed to a bigger filter and shortened the maintenance schedule on the 4000 series tractors.

The new hydro filters are bigger and the metal filings are normal (on the first screen cleaning).

The new schedule is to change hydraualic oil, filter and clean suction screen after the first 50 hours. Change filter and clean suction screen every 200 hours. Change hydraulic oil, filter and clean screen every 400 hours. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-05-04          85231

Perhaps the 4200 is different but the 4210, 4310, and 4410 call for replacement of the hydro filters and cleaning of the suction screen every 200 hours after the 1st 50 hr. break-in service. ....


Link:   click here

 
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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-05-05          85313

Thanks for the info on the revised service schedule. Just to make sure I didn't overlook something I rechecked my manual (1998) and sure enough it only recommends every 500 hours, nor did it include it as part of the 50hr break-in servicing. Oh well, I guess I know better now. This was the first change, hopefully I won't be seeing anymore metal shavings in the future.

I mowed the grass this evening, 3 acres, all hilly. The problem is definitely much better but I am still not convinced everything is normal yet. A few times, it still seemed to breifly run away on me followed by a sudden lurch to a slower speed. When going down hill, if I leave my foot off the pedal, it just kind of creeps along in a regular jerking pattern with short intermittent spurts of a smooth rolling motion. Does this sound normal? ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-05-05          85324

Have you changed the fluid inthe HST? If so, which brand? ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-05-19          86363

I mowed the grass again last night and I am still having the same problem when going downhill. Any other suggestions on what might be wrong. And yes, the oil has been freshly changed and is JD Hy-Gaurd Low Viscosity.

Thank you all for your help to date. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-19          86365

When it freewheels downhill do you hear any unusual noises? ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-05-19          86372

No unusual noises, just feels like I'm rolling in neutral with nothing but a slight and steady gear whirring noise. A few new technical details. I redrained the oil to check the screen again. There was some more metal shavings but only a very small amount, but then again only 10hrs usage after my previous cleaning. Of more interest was a torn rubber o-ring filtered out by the screen. It was thin and only about 1/2" in diameter. In addition to the o-ring there was fragments of a clear silicone like ring of about the same size. ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-19          86376

Bad news, sounds like a trip to the dealer will be necessary. If you want to fix it yourself you'll probably need to buy parts and service manuals and try to figure out where those O-rings came from. ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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lucerne
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 192 Lucerne Maine
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2004-05-24          86751

Are you all sure about changing trans hydro oil and cleaning screen at 50hrs and every 200hrs after? My JD is oil change first 50hrs and every 200 hrs after. Hydro trans is at 400hrs and every 400 hrs after. Thats alot of oil to dispose of that often!!! ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-24          86752

Yep. Chief posted this maintenance schedule. Scroll to the top under 50 hour break-in. ....


Link:   JD maintenance schedule

 
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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-05-24          86753

Whoops. I reread it and it calls for a transmission oil change at 50 hours and each 400 hours after, with a filter change every 200 hours. ....

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4200 Hydrostat Problem

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lucerne
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 192 Lucerne Maine
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2004-05-24          86754

My trans holds 10 gallons, couldn't afford to change it that often, I just looked it up, it's 400 hrs and every 400 after. Nice link to the maintenance schedule Chief. How did you ever find it, the JD site keeps me running in circles. One thing I do like is the pdf downloads, I have one on my desk top that covers everything about my machine and all the options and accesories for it. ....

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husky125
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 23 Indiana
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2004-05-29          87193

I just recently acquired my 4400 from my father-in-law's estate. I found about the same conditions when I changed the hydraulic oil. There was about teaspoon of metal shavings on the suction screen. The tractor has 400 hours on it and everything points to this being it's first oil change for the engine or transmission. Most telling was the paint run on the oil filter. I'm going to probably only run about 100 hours and change the hydraulic oil again and see if it cleaned itself up. ....

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lockwoodfe
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11 Cincinnati, OH
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2004-06-01          87465

husky125,
Do you have the downhill runaway problem also? Mine works fine except when going downhill. Temperature is also a factor. It definitely gets worse as it get hot. I assume this is probably just because the viscosity drops some. ....

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husky125
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 23 Indiana
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2004-06-02          87528

I haven't notice any problem on downhills. The only time it even rolls is at low throttle. Otherwise, the engine holds the tractor. I was having problems with a delayed reaction when I let off of the forward pedal. This went away with the hydraulic oil change. ....

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