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Deere refusing to deal with tire scuffing problem

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Terry Weivoda
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1999-08-24          7283

I have been complaining to me dealer for some time now about the long debated problem with front tire scuffing on the 4200-4400 Deere tractors. My dealer advised me today that Deere is not going to make any changes on the tractors in operation. Deere plans a redesign for tractors in the future. When that will be me dealer was not certain. To me this is totally unacceptable. I think all of us who own these tractors should write a letter to Deere demanding a resolution to the problem with our tractors. We should not have to trade a low hour tractor on a new one next year to resolve this problem. Deere has an obligation to resolve this problem. Frankly, I am surprised that Deere is taking this position. I have purchased Deere garden and compact tractors dating back to the early 80s. They have always stood behing their products. I would appreciate any comments from 4000 owners who feel as strongly as I do about this problem.

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Roger L.
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1999-08-25          7293

I wonder if you would be better off to spend your money hiring a mechanical engineer to take a look at the systemand see what is wrong. Lots of times I think that these problems get tied up with politics at the factory, when just aboutany competent engineer could come up with a fix with a week's work. Then you could sell the solution either back to JD orto your fellow 4xxx owners. After all, this is simply steering geometry and is all well-known subject. You can even buy bookswritten on the subject....though they tend to be a bit tedious :-) How about it? Is this solution interesting to anyone? Roger Loving ....

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Keith
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1999-08-25          7295

But then, if you make mod's to a tractor's front end under warranty and have any problems whatsoever with the steering or frontend, the dealer is automatically going to blame the problem on the mod's. And the next thing is that JD will say you violated the warranty anyway, so they have no obligation to fix it. You can't win this one, at least while it is still under warranty!! ....

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Paul Levin
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1999-08-25          7298

I have a 4300 (less than 2 months old) and just let me know where to direct the letter to JD re scuffing. There is much to like about the tractor but it is clearly a first year product. Maybe a rushed first year product. I have way too many screws and bolts that show they have been torqued on and off before my dealer even started to add accessories and fix a leak. So far I'm not unhappy with this purchase, in fact I'm very pleased but I'm counting on JD to right issues as they come up (which so far is the case but only a hydro leak). Besides the scuffing, clearly the most serious, the issue with the hoses off the loader rubbing the tire is just not a good design (I've followed the thread), the dash does fog up (I've followed the thread). No problems with Hydro pedals on mine. But what else? Terry, just let me know best way you think to approach this. There is quite a history of experiences on this board. Has anyone had Deere acknowledge they follow what goes on here? Just curious. ....

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Roger L.
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1999-08-25          7302

If they don't get a satisfactory fix within the warranty period we can look into this. Sounds to me like you are trapped into"politics as usual". I do hope JD gets a fix together on this, but if they can't figure it out there is no need for you to give up onit. I'm sure we can come up with something suitable. Roger Loving ....

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droz
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1999-08-25          7333

I am sure John Deere knows the problem and would like to satisfy all its customers. The problem is, in this society, as soon as they mention they are aware of the problem and are striving to fix it, they leave themselves open for the lawyers and a class action suit. Better to deny and fix rather than lose $100 million dollars. Unfortunate but true. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-08-26          7342

It is sooo sad that Droz is right...Just like the recent seatbelt latch issue in most import cars. Years went by before lawsuits/media forced a recall on the millions of existing vehicles on the road with this problem. Imagine how many people suffered loses, not knowing it was "possibly" due to this issue. ....

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Larry
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1999-08-26          7350

I have a 4100 and serious scuffing marks on my lawn, so I don't think the problem is limited to the 4200 - 4400 tractors. I don't know what the final answer will be but I am mowing slower in the turns and not turning nearly as sharp as I did. I have owned the tractor for less than two months and it has completely removed the grass in several areas where I have made sharp turns. My greatest concern with the 4100 is catching an overhanging limb with the ROPS and tipping over. After using a 318 for 5 years it may take me a while to adjust to the size of the 4100. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-08-26          7357

Because there have been several different ideas expressed here regarding what JD is doing or going to do (or not going to do) about the lawn scuffing issue of the 4xxx series of compact diesel tractors, I E-mailed JD and what follows is their reply, with nothing left out and nothing added. I have full confidence in my dealer, but contrary to the official JD reponse listed below, THIS ISSUE IS NOT A DEALER ISSUE. IF JD fails to own up to this flaw, it might very well be grounds for a class action litigation. I wonder IF this situation is convered under warranty in a "failed suitability for advertised purpose" scenario--I'm no attorney, but would appreciate hearing comments from others regarding their feelings about lawn scuffing being covered under warranty. JOHN DEERE'S RESPONSE:------------------------------------------------------Dear Sir:Thank you for contacting our website. As to your specific concern, yourdealer is your best source of information on any future fixes and designchanges of John Deere machines. If we can be of further assistance, please contact our CustomerCommunications Center at 1-800-537-8233. We are open Monday through Friday,8:00 AM to 7:00 PM, and Saturdays, 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM, Eastern StandardTime.Audrey ....

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Droz
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1999-08-26          7358

I also have a 4100 and am surprised to hear you have a scuffing problem. I know it has a very tight turning radius and with power steering it is easy to make quick sharp turns but I havn't noticed any scuffing. Do you have the turf tires? ....

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Larry
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1999-08-26          7359

Yes I do have turf tires but I have found that sharp turns on minor slopes causes large amounts of grass to appear on the lower front tire. I also notice this problem when trying to get close to trees and other things that I am getting close to. I am sure that if the lawn was totally flat and I did not try to use the 4100 to limit my trimming chores that the problem could be avoided. ....

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Jack in IL
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1999-08-26          7361

Question for those commenting on turf being disturbed in tight turns. Are you operating in 4WD or 2WD?? In 4WD there is an inherent "fight" between the front and rear axles in turns because the wheels all follow different path lengths. Since there is no interaxle differential between the front differential and the rear differential, in turns one tire will always be forced to "slip" an extra amount to accomodate the difference between the path lengths. I have a 4100 with turfs. When in 2WD and turning at reasonable ground speeds, there is no turf disturbance. When in 4WD and making a moderate to sharp turn, either a front wheel or sometimes the inner rear wheel will disturb turf. If you need to operate in 4WD when mowing, it is necessary to make wider sweeping turns to minimize the scuffing. The effect is also reduced with wider tread spacings. ....

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Roger L.
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1999-08-26          7366

It couldn't be as simple as this...... could it be that some folks are forgetting to take it out of 4wd when not needed? Roger ....

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art
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1999-08-27          7375

get a kubota with bi-speed turn it will end your problems. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-08-27          7377

Art is right! Kubota's little B series have turning radius about equal to the big 150hp tractors. Therefore eliminating any possibility of scuffing, just have to be good at 3pt turns. As far as the bi-speed, I purposely pushed the unit, to see the effect of the bi-speed. Which was only marginally improved at high speed turns,and no improvement at normal mowing speeds. Hardly worth the extra $350-$400 it costs. The dealer was insisting that it makes a big difference, yet even he was unable to produce, or not produce the effects he was trying to sell me on. Other than the device malfunctioning on a spankin new tractor, I wasn't even minorly impressed. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-08-27          7379

Being the devil's advocate, could some of this problem simply be the tight turning radius? I've never seen a 4wd turn this sharp, other than NH Supersteer, in which I've unfortunately never had the opportunity to work with.When looking at Kubota, this problem wasn't appearant, the turning radius is also much less as well. Our 4100 has this problem to some degree, but not more than I would expect from a 1500lbs tractor with a 55 or so degree turning radius. Just my 2 cents. It would be nice if there was a solution to keep the same raduis and eliminate or lessen the scuffing. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-08-27          7382

For those that have responded by questioning IF the problem of lawn scuffing is caused by leaving the tractor in 4WD or using the tightest turning radius--the answer is NO in my case.Mike S. ....

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John L
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1999-08-27          7383

I have a JD 1070 with MFWD and my neighbor has a new 4300 with MFWD. We raked out smooth, fine slag and made a normal 90 degree turn like we were mowing. Zero scuffing with the 1070, moderate scuffing with the 4300. ....

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Larry
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1999-08-27          7391

NO! I do not mow in 4wd. ....

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David
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1999-08-27          7396

I have been following this thread with interest. I am a Case / IH dealer and a dealer for commerical mowing equipment. Green is not one of my favorite colors however I may be able to add several observations to this discussion. JD has done a nice job with the 4xxx series, but these are tractors designed to do everything from mowing, to loader work, to tillage operations. To accomidate all these conflicting goals obviously the tractor design is a compromise to try and do everything. If turning radius was reduced to reduce mower scuffing, the loader guys would scream about lack of manuverability. If weight was reduced the guys using the tractor for tillage would complain about wheel slip. I could go on, but the point is a tractor has design compromises to allow it do to many things. If the dealer told you something otherwise shame on him. If you look at true purpose built mowing machines (the ones the commericial guys us) They use caster type wheels (no scuffing) everywhere except the drive wheels and true zero turn drive wheels. These machines are optimized to mow turf fast and without scuffing. However they don't have tree point hitches or loader attachments. A purpose built machine will always outperform the general purpose machine at a specific task, but the general purpose machine (tractor) can do more things. It sounds to me like some of these folks would be alot happier with a zero turn commercial mower and that maybe the dealer didn't listen and sold the wrong machine. ....

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mike
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1999-08-27          7401

John, How do you feel your 1070 compares to your neighbors new 4300 side by side. Like quality, strength in key areas and whatever else you can think of. regards Mike ....

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droz
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1999-08-28          7403

David makes sense of course. My Bobcat has lots of power but if I use it on a lawn I have to make longgggggg gradual turns and it still tears up the lawn. What a surprise! I don't have the problem with my 4100 but the next size up doubles the weight and unless you compensate for this, you will of course have problems. I am very happy with the quick turns I can do but I use it at my farm and don't worry about the appearance of the lawn/weed field. ....

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Terry Weivoda
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1999-08-28          7406

David, your points are well taken. What irritates me the most is the fact that the 855 (I traded in on the 4300) has an actual tighter turning radius on turf. The 855 would not scuff the turf in the tightest turn. With my 4300 I have increased the number of forward/reverse cycles to mow around an obstacle. I realize the 4300 weighs nearly 1000 pounds more than the 855 and that a heavier tractor has the greater potential to leave marks on turf. But in this case, it appears to be a poor design. The inward tire on the 4300 seems to tilt downward when you turn more than about 30 degrees. It doesn't stay flat like it should. It continues to amaze me that Deere didn't jump on this problem in the beginning. I bought my 4300 before the mowing season but discovered the problem the first time I drove it on some turf. Deere must have noticed this as well, yet, put the tractor into production. Finally, with respect to the point that these tractors are expected to do several tasks therefore resulting in having to compromise some areas, I have to respectfully disagree. These tractors are advertised and sold to mow. Deere sells mowers for these tractors that cost nearly $3,000. I think Deere was losing sales to New Holland and was desparately trying to get a new tractor on the market to compete. I think Deere knew that New Holland's SuperSteer MFWD was getting attention and that they had to respond. I would have preferred they delayed production until the steering problem was resolved. ....

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Thom
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1999-08-28          7419

Terry, I have a small business that I use a JD770 2WD (60" Mid) to mow lawns with and It works great, Why? because its light weight with turf tires and no 4WD, But its practicly useless with a front loader. I also have a JD4400 and Its great with front loader work because it has a highly manuverable 4WD front end and a good weight to power ratio, but even with turf tires it is not a good tractor for a finish mower. Compact utilitiy tractors will do a lot, but they will not do a lot real well, they are a compromise between a lawn tractor and a Ag tractor. Just because there's an attachment sold that fits your tractor doesn't mean it will work well. ....

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Terry Weivoda
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1999-08-28          7422

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that there needs to be a compromize between the lighter tractors (such as your 770 and my previous 855) and the new more powerful and heavier 4000 tractors. So does John Deere. According to the service manager at my dealership, Deere recognizes there is a problem and is working on a new front end for future production tractors. What upsets me is that Deere knows there is a problem, agrees that a new design is necessary, but is unwilling to fix the problem on the current tractors. A neighbor of mine has a Boomer with the Supersteer front end and his tractor does not scuff the turn unless you are in the tightest turning arc available. If New Holland can build a tractor that turns properly then I am confident Deere can build one as well even using conventional front end technology. Deere advertises the tighter turning circle as a reason to purchase the tractors. As I have stated in numerous previous posts, I am a big fan of John Deere. I also willing to give Deere time to resolve this problem. I am not willing to accept that I have to live with this defect until such time as I trade for a new tractor with the new front end design changes. Deere has a long and distinguished history of repairing defects in the field. They should continue this tradition and repair or replace the front ends on the 4000 series tractors ....

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Terry Hall
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1999-08-28          7424

I used my 4400 for the first time, and noticed the scuffing problem, who do I need to contact, dealer or John Deere, let me know I will be more that happy to talk to someone. ....

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Tim
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1999-08-28          7433

Terry, I can't agree with you more, I think JD is going the wrong way with this tire scuffing concern. I recently used an 855 from my dealer during the time my 4300 was in the shop. Granted, different tractor, lighter weight, but had turf tires like mine. Took a ride out on the grass and turned all the way in both directions (2x4). NO TURF SCUFF! I have noticed that some of the responses have a condescending tone that seem to direct the issue away from the front end and blame it on tractor weight, excessive speed, operator error, etc. I would agree that turning too sharp on wet grass would cause it to slip and rip up the turf. I would agree that if a person had it in "c" range and tried to make a sharp corner, it would tear up the grass (which most people don't anyways). I would bet the pessimistic people have never witnesses this event and think that it is little more than the tires slipping on the grass. NOT! The truth of the matter is, in 2x4, turf tires, without even the mower deck on, no fluid in the tires or extra weight of any kind, this rig will absolutely tear out the grass down to bare dirt with the outside tire, even with optimally dry soil/grass conditions. It will even leave patches of dirt embedded in the treads. This morning I watched it again on gravel. The tractor will always follow the track of the inside wheel perfectly and you can't even tell where the wheel drove. The outside wheel slips along, kind of like a disc blade. And to give David some credit, yes commercial mowers do have caster wheels. But what if the pivot shaft were not at a perfect 90 degrees to the axle they were attached to? Maybe tilt the pivot shaft forward a little (a change in caster), it would probably handle the straight ahead stuff, but it would probably tear up the turf if turned either way. Go try this with your office chair and see what we mean. I am not being sarcastic. It is the only comparison that I can make to your theory of caster wheels. The 855 did not act in this manner. The Cub 7xxx did not do this. Neither did the MF, Boomer (w/o supersteer) or the Kubota that I test drove when I bought this tractor. I would encourage the people that haven't driven a new 4xxx series 4x4 to see what we mean with a test drive. Heck, if anything, it may be the answer a lot of potential new compact tractor buyers have been looking for to get them off the fence. (JD or .....) ....

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Tim
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1999-08-28          7436

I need to clarify the 855. I was on a 4x4 equipped tractor, but did not have it engaged in 4x4 when I was turning. Ok, I am now getting down off my soapbox, sorry so longwinded before. ....

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Terry Hall
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1999-08-29          7448

Ive never had any thing larger than JD445 that weight about 900lbs top speed is around 15mph,it never scuffed my yard even on a wide open turn. This new tractor will scuff my lawn no matter how slow I go. Ive got a 4500lbs truck that dont tear the yard up as bad as my tractor does, my concrete driveway looks like a airport landing strip were Ive made turns. Being A auto tech for some 25 years and dealing with car front ends, it appears to me as if this tractor has a very high camber, on cars the highest Ive every seen is 1 degree positive this tractor looks like its about 3 or 4 degrees positive. I believe I will bring my camber gauge home from my shop and check it and see. Maybe we should get everyone to bomb John Deere with emails. ....

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Mike S.
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1999-08-29          7452

Terry--I have already E-mailed JD about the tire scuffing problem and posted to this forum their "to whom it may concern" type of generic response. Therefore, I doubt if sending JD lots of E-mails would do any good. For all I know, "Audrey" is simply part of an automated E-mail response program in a computer. Although, when I E-mailed Audrey back and asked her for the E-mail address of the CEO of JD Corp., it resulted in my receiving the following message last week which refutes what has been previously mentioned in this thread--that JD is working on a fix for the tire scuffing problem:Mike S.--------------------------------Dear Sir:At this moment, we are not aware of any changes or future fixes on the 4000series tractor. If you would like to write a letter to the CEO, HansBecherer, the company the address is: Deere & Company 1 John Deere PlaceMoline, IL 61256Or if you would like to speak with someone or if we can be of furtherassistance, please contact our Customer Communications Center at1-800-537-8233. We are open Monday through Friday, 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM, andSaturdays, 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM, Eastern Standard Time. Audrey Customer Advisor ....

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Tim
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1999-08-29          7456

I have yet another observation that I found while mowing this morning. As I was driving through the pasture today, I found a nice patch of grass about equal to my lawn in texture. "A" range, 1500 rpm, speed control set with hydro pedal to the floor; cranked all the way to left, made 3 circles, it completely rubbed all the grass off the ground with the right front tire. Then, I moved a few feet away, tryed same thing, only in reverse, wheels turned to the left again. Hmmmmm.... same right front tire (outside turning tire) was now ripping the grass out in reverse too. (right or left turns, same effect). Boy, when this outside wheel is slipping, it really rolls the tire on the rim, almost looks like my tire is way underinflated, which it isn't. Funny thing, I traded my Boomer 1530 last fall because it had problems (which were 1st-year problems), and with the frequency of breakdowns, it was hard to convince myself that the Boomer would be durable/reliable for 10 years or more. I thought that JD would be a reputable company to buy from. My first repair ended up in a 3 week stay at the dealership while parts were on backorder. The steering had no power assist unless over 1700 rpms. That was 18 hours ago on the meter (86 hours total currently) and the steering is getting stiff again at an idle. I lost $4500 on the deal just due to the early trade in (depreciation). I am already so far upside down that I would never make out even unless I was assisted into a new tractor by JD itself. I can't afford to buy another tractor if the only way to remedy this scuffing concern is to buy next years model. Think it is time to make a visit to my dealer's owner to talk this out. (my dealer has bent over backwards so far, giving me a loaner tractor to use while mine was getting fixed.. SUPER PLACE!) My wife knows my stance on this one, I hope it doesn't end up with a trade back to Blue again... (I hear New Holland has fixed the low power problems that I traded it in for) P.S.If I have never mentioned it before, I am a service director for a new car/truck dealership, with 16 years mechanical background, and an ASE Master Certified Technician. I butt heads with the manufacturer five days a week, which is becoming my favorite pastime. I don't know how much I can do to make a change with JD, but I think this one deserves a little fight. ....

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Terry Hall
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1999-09-01          7561

I know everyone is talking about the scuffing problem, today I check the toe in on my tractor, a 4400 JD, there was one inch difference between the rear and front. It was toe in, so I toe it out the same, front and rear, and then drove it in the yard, it seen not to scuff the lawn near as bad as it did in the same turn, I ran beside a spot were it had scuff the lawn before and didnt make a place. You guys may want check your toe in, it may be like mine. ....

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Tom Fenelon
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1999-10-22          9045

As a Mechanical Engineer with nearly 15 years of experience at the largest Diesel engine and tractor company in the world (yes yellow blood but buys some great green stuff) the 4000 series tire scuffing problem is an engineering compromise. The steering angles + weight are very aggressive relative to other high end turf care equipment. I would suggest going to larger diameter lower pressure front tires for mowing as well as taking your tractor to an alignment specialist to minimize this affect. This would limit operation to 2WD when mowing and force people to switch back tires + rims for other work w/4WD. I recently purchased a 4100 hyd w/54" deck + loader + ballast box + landpride rear blade. During my investigation I looked at a number of new 4100's. Most were a little or a lot out of alignment. This is a quality problem JD should address. An alignment problem will create even more relative tire slip between the ground and tire surface (either turning or straight). I would evaluate your alignment by high speed pavement driving with correct weight bias (balanced front/back weight distribution). Significant alignment ills will be quickly identified. Most JD dealers do not possess sophisticated alignment machines but I would like to hear from anyone who has sucessfully adapted one for this use. ....

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Daniel
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1999-10-22          9046

My Pappy had a high-tech way to align his farm tractors, because most - right from the factory, were way out of alignment. Jack-up the front axle with both tires off the ground. Spin the tire slowly and measure distance from inside edge of one tire to the other towards the front and then towards the back. Adjsut it for about 1/4" to 1/2" toe-in. Not really scientific, but IT WORKED FOR 60 YEARS!. Besides, I haven't seen a tractor dealer yet that does or is equipped to do the precision alignments like a car dealer does. I've been to a lot of dealers of the years to. These tires are not spinning as fast as car tires and alignment is important, but not as critical. I haven't seen a 4WD tractor - big or small that didn't scuff a little. You just don't notice it in the field like you do on your front yard. ....

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scotty
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 22 Cheswick PA
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1999-11-16          10170

Terry & all other 4000 (scuffers)

Your concerns and questions are about to be answered by Deere & Co. New axles are on the horizon...I know your patience has been tested...but the light at the end of the tunnel is near.

Oh and the boomer super steer you spoke of that your neighbor has .....to acheive the same turning circle with her tractor as a JD 4000 she has to lock her brakes .... the brake pedal is on the same side of the platform as the hydro pedal..check the specs, on the Boomers. ....

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Bob Masters
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2000-02-16          12868

I received a fax from dealer today. JOHN DEERE ADMITS THERE WAS A PROBLEM AND HAS A NEW AXLE DESIGN FOR THE 4100-4400!!!!!!! There is a commericial Marketing Information Bulletin available: Commercial-00-3. It says there was a problem with the steering geometry. The new 4wd axle is "a standard double-acting cylinder with a solid tie rod located behind the axle" The new design also uses a larger steering pump and steering valve additionally there are some different tire specs. Tractors with the new axle are:
4200 & 4300 Syncshift serial number C327042 and C335308 and up respectively.
4200-4400 HST serial numbers H321092, H330878, and H340948 and up respectively.
4300 through 4400 syncreverser s336487 and s344286 and up respectively.

example: a 4300 HST with serial number above H330878 has the new axle.

Additionally, John Deere started with a modification to the hydrostat in December also. The new design has more holes in the flow restrictor plate that allows easier operation of the pedals and a redesigned linkage that has more mechanical advantage.

It sounded like JD is only going to offer the fix to people with belly mowers on the front axle though. Supposedly the new axle allows for R4 tires to be used with the deck. At least my dealer is puttin them on my new 4200 that I'm getting in March. They had very good prices: 4200 HST w R4 tires or turf, ballast box, 3rd remote for belly mower, 60" belly mower, 420 loader, $18,100 + tax.

Also the new axle design will be out on the 4500-4700 beginning with April production.

So, to all the skeptics, there was a legitimate problem. We should try to be nicer to each other in the future! We are here to help each other. ....

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MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2000-02-16          12873

Bob,
Did you post a typeO, or is the 4100 now included in the list of JD problem children? If so, that would be great for me...But I'm guessing you just entered 4100 by accident. ....

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Bob Masters
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2000-02-17          12899

Sorry, this is not for the 4100 at this point! ....

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Bob Masters
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2000-02-17          12900

Sorry, this is not for the 4100 at this point! ....

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Chris in IN
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2000-02-17          12907

Terry I would not jump for joy just yet. Yesterday I attended the National Farm Machinery Show in Louisville KY. The John Deere Rep I talked with said that the only tractors that would be repaired were the one sold with turf tires. I guess they think that the people that got R1s & R4s will never drive on anything but plowed ground. I think that these are the tractors that should be repaired first as they do alot more damage to turf than the ones with turf tires. Before I purchased my 4400 with R4s I ask about the scuffing problem and was told that JD knew about the problem and it would be repaired. I now find that the word of the dealer means nothing & that JOHN DEERE does not have a problem with sticking it to there customers. I am now stuck with a piece of JOHN DEERE GREEN JUNK that I paid to much for because I thought I was buying from a reputable USA company. I am now either going to have spend another $1300.00 for turf tires & rims or sell it at a huge loss to get a tractor that I can drive on sod with out plowing the yard every time I turn.
I should have bought New Holland or Kubota.
Chris. ....

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scott slavin
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2000-02-19          12960

John Deere Dealer Here (oxford,Pa.)
The axle fix has been announced as Bob mentioned in an earlier post,however Chris's info from DEERE.(is false) (which I would like to know whom at DEERE would tell a customer that tires matter) Tires,2WD,4WD,4200,4300,4400,4500,4600 all these are included in a DEERE sponsored PIP program (PRODUCT IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM)The new replacement axles are just now becoming available and are for any customer that desires a replacement axle. No hocuspocus,NO GAMES, NO hidden Costs,No strings attached.
And if a DEALER or anyone from DEERE & Co. tells any customer any different story or tale they are WRONG. I have my information from the Horse's Mouth (So to speak)Oh and I have driven the new axle design and seen it, no scuffing.Thats a fact. ....

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Chris in IN
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2000-02-19          12963

Scott thanks for the reply. I talked to my dealers service manager today & he said he had not heard of the problem at all, although the salesman that sold me the tractor in November did. The salesman was not in today so I will call him next week. The service manager did say he would call the JD area rep Monday.

The preson I talked to at the National Farm Machinery Show in Louisville, KY was a John Deere company Rep. The first thing the service manager ask when I told him about the truff tire issue was the reps name, I failed to get his name & it seems they have had problems before with reps saying something different than company policy, but there was an earlier post were they got a similer answer that the axle would only be changed if you bought a mower with the tractor.

I will be patient a while longer.
Chris



....

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scott slavin
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2000-02-21          13012

JOHN DEERE DEALER (OXFORD PA)
IN AN EARLIER POST I HAD STATED THAT JOHN DEERE CO HAD A PIP PROGRAM IN EFFECT FOR 4000 SERIES TRACTORS REGARDING FRONT AXLE SCUFFING. AFTER A CONVERSATION WITH THE AUGUSTA PRODUCT MANAGER TODAY HE CORRECTED MY ERRORS.
IT SEEMS THAT DEERE'S OFFICIAL POSITION REGARDING "TURF SCUFFING" IS THAT IT WILL BE HANDLED ON A INDIVIDUAL COMPLAINT BASIS WITH THE CUSTOMER,THE DEALER, AND THE DEERE TERRITORY MANAGER EVALUATING THE TRACTOR'S PERFORMANCE AND THE "SCUFFING ISSUE".
ALSO THE NEW AXLE DESIGN IS ONLY CONCENTRATING ON 4WD UNITS AND WILL NOT EFFECT ANY 2WD UNITS SOLD.
ALSO I HAD STATED THAT DEERE & CO. HAD ANNOUNCED A PIP PROGRAM WHICH I HAVE FOUND OUT IS NOT CORRECT, ONCE AGAIN EACH CASE WILL BE REVEIEWED INDIVIDUALLY.
THE SCUFFING ISSUE IS STILL NOT TIRE SPECIFIC AND EACH CASE WILL BE REVIEWED INDIVIDUALLY, HOWEVER I WILL NOTE THAT (R4) & (R1) TIRES WILL TRADITIONALLY SCUFF TURF AT EXTREME TURNS WHERE AS THIS MAY NOT BE THE CASE WITH (R3) DEPENDING ON THE TURF,MOISTURE IN GROUND, AND THE RATE OF TRAVEL (SPEED)

I APPOLOGIZE TO ANY OWNERS,DEALERS,OR JOHN DEERE PERSONNEL AFFECTED BY MY EARLIER POST. IT IS NOT MY NATURE TO REPORT FALSE INFORMATION REGARDING THE PRODUCT OR POSITION OF DEERE & CO.

THIS WILL BE IN EFFECT MY LAST POSTING TO THIS THREAD OR ANY OTHER REGARDING THE SCUFFING ISSUE OR ANY OTHERS CONCERNING DEERE PRODUCT.

THE POSTS I HAVE MADE HAVE BEEN ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND DEERE & CO. AND I HAVE POSTED INFORMATION BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE AND LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF THE ISSUES.

IN CLOSING, I SELL THE BEST PRODUCT MADE EVERYDAY.
I HAVE FOR CLOSE TO ELEVEN YEARS.
I LOVE JOHN DEERE, AND WILL REMAIN COMMITTED TO THE PRODUCT AND THE COMPANY.
I WISH ALL OF YOU GOOD LUCK. ....

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TROCK
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2000-02-21          13037

Scott, thank you for clarifying this issue. It is unfortunate that in the push to get information to the customer, some customers have gotten the "early scoop" from the gossip fence, and then it is up to a bold employee or owner of a dealership to straighten it out (as witnessed in the scuff postings). It's too bad that JD corp. did not address this issue themselves, instead of sitting by and watching the posters at this site become frustrated, and then the posters post info that is totally incorrect. Only a few dealers that have been watching this site, trying to keep the soldiers at bay, have had the balls to come forward to give at least some shred of evidence that something WAS being done for the owners of these tractors. We do appreciate the straightforward manner that this was/is presented by those dealers, even though it appears Scott may have been reprimanded by someone higher up the ladder at JD. Some dealers have probably just taken the easy way out and told their customers that they have not heard of any problems at all. I have been there. It really insults my intelligence to get the answer of "you are the ONLY one of my customers that is having these problems". I have also been given information by a commercial tractor rep (JD) last fall that addressed issues like a fogging dash, a loader lock out update, and a hard pedal pressure. Dealer fixed the dash, but hadn't heard of any updates to the loader lock or the hydro pedal. Why does the left hand know one thing, and the right hand is in the dark? I would expect a worldwide company like JD to be more organized in the way that information can get to their people. One dealer that I talked to, mentioning the above issues and what the rep said, stated that sometimes these reps say stuff they shouldn't say. Seems like there is a communication loss somewhere in the JD ranks? Anyways, we do not want to lose you, Scott. Change your name and post here anonymously. I KNOW you will still visit us here, even if you don't respond, just in here browsing. Thanks again! ....

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bud in oh.
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2000-02-22          13082

Trock: I coudn't have said it better and I to would like to thank Scott for at least trying. I'm sure most owners just figure the scruffing of the turf is just a trademark of using a compact for yard work and do not say anything. I know this for a fact because I've talked to some of these owners,but you can bet they know when we're done talking. It's to bad when other owners have to do what Deere and company should be doing themselves. Bud in Ohio. ....

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Jason f
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2002-02-01          35195

Unbelieveable that JD would silence this dealer and stonewall honest customers. This is why Kubota is making such inroads into the market. So just go ahead JD, keep screwing you customers. Eventually people will will get tired of plunking down their hard earned money for a product with widespread problem, and a company that just does not give a shit !!! The sad thing is that only American companies would be short sighted enough to pull this. Being patriotic only goes so far. The bottom line is when getting ready to purchase a $20,000 tractor, what type of a product a company makes and how well they stand behind that product. I am positive that JD has lost more in sales and reputation just on this website alone than it would have cost them to JUST DO THE RIGHT THING. People do have choices when making their purchases, and are exercising them. Other sites that I have been to have reported this as a widespread problem. So in the unlikely event that JD comes across this thread, have no doubt this 'problem' is being watched by many so DO THE RIGHT THING !!!!! ....

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jd110_1963
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 87 westminster, md
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2002-02-02          35222

Jason, I don't know if you noticed or not , but the thread you responded to is 2 years old and I would like to think that this issue has been resolved. At the dealership I work for, there was no problem getting Deere to approve repair of all units that customers complained about. If anyone is still having problems getting scuffing problems fixed, maybe they need a new dealer. Kenny ....

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Jason F
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2002-02-03          35228

You are quite right about the date, I think what really set me off was that the JD dealer in the post who was trying to help out was obviously silenced or reprimanded. Now that same dealer who could have been a great resource of knowledge is gone, or will have to post anonymously. I understand that JD is in business to make money, but we are the buying public, we have the right to a well engineered machine. Just my opinion.... ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine
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2002-02-03          35252

I am an owner of a 2000 JD4700 and have had some VERY expensive (problems/repairs) and have had no problems so far getting JD to stand behind its product and DO THE RIGHT THING.

David ....

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Passing through
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2002-03-03          36040

I FOUND THE FOLLOWING POST ON YAHOO FINANCE BOARD UNDER STOCK SYMBOL DE (FOR DEERE) IT WAS MESSAGE 3016.



Please take your concern to your dealer. He can file what is called a Dealer Technical Assistance Center (DTAC) request. That will start the process for the axle performance to be evaluated. The request must be confirmed by the dealer's Territory Aftermarket Manager (TAM) by email to the factory. My dept provides the kits to the dealer. The only thing we ask is that the tractor is used in a mowing application. Many tractors are used in commercial material handling applications and the original axle design is completely satisfactory (as it is in many mowing applications as well).

John Deere's commitment is to ensure customer satisfaction with all our products to include the 4000 series tractors. We want to make sure you are satisfied with the tractor's performance in all applications.

Regards,

Paul Mallon
Product Support Manager
John Deere Commercial Products
Augusta, GA


....

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Dirt Farmer
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2002-03-05          36118

Passing through;
Tried the remedy per the Yahoo message board and was told that if I purchased a set of turf tires (tractor purchased with ag tires) and a finish mower, that only then would my tire scuffing front axle be replaced "free of charge".
Resale value, the fact that I use the tractor for pasture mowing and excessive front tire wear was of no concern to the TAM or dealer.
Lesson learned: JD is subjective in the area of customer service.
My next tractor will not be green.

Owner of an '00 4200 ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-03-06          36126

I think it would be really good for Paul to hang around here to interpret JD's services and commitments. I'm interested although not a JD owner. However, I do recognize the difficulty of doing that sort of thing as a representative of a modern corporation and thank him for his comment.

On the surface, it seems like a pretty nutty position to say that a tractor manufactured and sold as a system that includes mowers suddenly is not of adequate design for use in mowing applications. I don't imagine that the tractor was billed as not suitable for mowing at the time of sale.

To my unschooled thinking, replacing the axles is a pretty clear admission of inadequate design, and resale valve is a potential real damage. I wonder what JD's corporate position actually is? Don't know. Maybe I've been reading too much John Grisham lately, but from this and similar discussions, maybe more formal approaches are in order. Easy to say if you’re not directly involved I guess.
....

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Passing through
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2002-03-06          36131

Sorry Dirt,
I tried!!! ....

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