Go BottomJD vs Kubota durability and HST system
 | Jack O'Donnell
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1999-08-17 6996
This is my second message on the subject. I'm looking a 2 tractors to replace my JD950........ a JD4600 and a Kubota 4310. I have had my 950 for 10 years and have never had a bit of trouble but now I'm tired of shifting so I want a hydrostatic. I wanted to get another JD but I find the overall quality of the new JD 4000 series to be horrific. The entire housing and fenders are fiberglass where as the Kubota is metal. Does anyone have a comment on the durability of these tractors ?? I do like the hydrostatic set up on the JD better. Does anyone have an opinion on the 2 pedal system (JD)vs the feather touch ( Kubota ). Thanks,JMO'D
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| John Kinsell
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1999-08-17 7009
I have driven the JD 4600 and the Kubota 4310. Both are good machines. But....The kubota treadle pedal exceeds the ankle angle and almost has to be used with the heel on the floor. If you have boots with a heel,reverse can be difficult. Steering brakes on the Kubota are almost useless unless you are in cruise control. Kubota's cruise control is not that great. As for sheet metal parts, I find they can really rattle after a period of time. None of these items are show stoppers. Just minor concerns. The 4600 will have some bugs because of being in first year production. Steering brakes are useable at all times and it has a great cruise control system which I believe they copied from the Blue guys. The 4600 seems to be more comfortable for the big guys.Seat goes back far enough. The power and lift capacity of the green loader is very impressive, but I could still get the job done with the Kubota. Hope this helps. ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-17 7030
John Deere all the Way! The twin peddle system is far superior in comfort than a treadle pedal. Besides you can use your left & Right brakes with a John Deere. The Loader is Superior on the John Deere also. The choice of a John Deere was a No Brainer for me... they have the controls set up right.. where on a Kubota can you use Hydro power and a turn brake at the same time? You can't? And I am a very experienced operater, and I use my L & R brakes all the time.. For many different reasons.. remember many times if you are scraping up snow or ice off a driveway, you don't have your front wheels on the ground.. the only means of steering is with your brakes. And out in the feild it works great too... Trust me.. I realize John Deere has lighter fenders now, but those are replaceable..that is in the unlikely event you are going to break one, getting a tractor you hate because it is not as simple as a JD hydro, isn't as easy to replace.. No other tractor makes implements that come off & on as easy as a John Deere.. Loader, Belly Mower etc.. Getting a John Deere is like having a Macintosh, far superior product.. anything else would be just a run of the mill PC...thanks Jason MacKenzie ....
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| L. A. Goddard
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1999-08-18 7042
I have a JD 4500 I would like to sell. It has 105 hours, 50 hours was at a trade show by dealer. 40 hrs. was pumping water with the PTO, and the balance was plowing. I am asking $19,585. ....
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| Kevin_SC
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1999-08-18 7043
After test driving ALL the blues, greens and oranges, I went with the Kubota. Not to say that JD and NH are not good tractors, they are. I just like the Kubota better. I had orig. ordered a new 4000 series JD, then test drove the new Grand L series Kubota, and canceled the Deere order. Its true the Deere loader is easer to remove and install but the Kubota loader has more capacity than the Deere or the NH. As far as the hydro pedel, mine has the same pressure from slow to fast. And yes I too use my turn breaks. Just set the cruse on slow and use the breaks, no big deal. You can do this on a NH also as long as you are turning right, the left break disengages the cruse. The Deere cruse is better than mine but Kubota cruse is functional, and I use it all the time. Also my Kubota has NOT been recalled for hydro trans. problems, hard to push hydro pedels, tires rubbing while turning..... Best of luck in your decisionKevin ....
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| Doug
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1999-08-18 7054
I drove the Green's and Oranges and felt that the Orange was much more solid and I wanted a tractor this summer rather than in the fall or winter. I too have no problem using the cruise and the turn brake at the same time...in fact I prefer it that way and have not yet taken the front loader off so I can't tell if that is gong to be tough or not, but to tell you the truth I use it so much for so many things I wonder if I would ever take it off anyway. The Green does have better hat though. Good luck! ....
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| David Robinson
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1999-08-18 7057
I went out and drove them both (4300 HST/4600 Powreverser--) JD and Kubota.Was going to decide based on if I wanted HST I would go orange. After driving the 4600 and working a loader there was no comparison in my mind. Had to go JD Green.The controls, steering, pedals all felt where I wanted them and I felt at home.Felt out of place with the Kubota. Am now waiting for /trying to find a 4600 HST. Dealer say I may have to wait till DEC!That isn't because they aren't making them. it's because they can't fill the demand. One source told me they had converted other othe assembly lines and increased production 60+% and they are still behind.I think there are some folks who have decided with me to wait and go green.I wouldn't fault anyone who felt different, the Kubota is a fine machine.Some like Ford's, some like Chevy's, and some will shoot you if you don't agree.God Bless, I hope you are as happy with your decision in 2 years wich ever one it is.David ....
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| Joe
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1999-08-18 7065
Hello Kevin,I was wondering which loader you were talking about? This is the 430 compared to Kubota's equivalent, on spec.s I found JoeComparison for 430 Equip/Compact Utility Tractors MANUFACTURER John Deere Kubota MODEL 430 LA481 Tractor Model 4300-4400 L3010/L3410 Front Tire 7-14 R1 --- Loader Capacity Lift capacity at full height, lb. (kg) 1258 (572) 1217 (552)* Breakout capacity, lb.(kg) 3299 (1497) 2244 (1017)* Dimensions Maximum lift height, in. (mm) 101.4 (2575) 97.2 Clearance full height w/bucket dumped, in.(mm) 78.3 (1989) 76.4 Digging depth, in. (mm) 6.1 (155) 3.9 Reach max. height w/bucket dumped, in. (mm) 25.6 (651) 21.7 ground level w/bucket level, in. (mm) 57.5 (1460) 61.8 dump angle, degrees 45 41 rollback angle, degrees 30 20 Cycle times loader raise, seconds 3.5 3.4 loader lower, seconds 2.5 2.2 bucket dump, seconds 1.8 1.5 bucket rollback, seconds 2.3 2.5 Tractor Hydraulic pump capacity, gpm 8.3 7 Rated pressure, psi 2494 2490 Loader Hydraulic Cylinder Lift cylinder diameter, in. (mm) Bore 1.97 (50), Rod 1.28 (32) Bore 1.75, Rod1.25 Bucket cylinder diameter, in. (mm) Bore 1.97 (50), Rod 1.28 (32) Bore 1.75, Rod1.00 ASAE Standard No. ASAE S301.3 Estimated ASAE S301.3 ....
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| mike
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1999-08-18 7074
Jack,Just wanted to add my 2 cents. 1 cent: I owned a 955 for years. Your concern about the fenders and housings are baseless. These components are a resin plastic, not fiberglass. The hood on my 955 was from this material and I would load rock and broken concrete in my bucket and sometimes (by accident that still made me mad) an errant piece would come over the top and hit my hood. Yeah, it scratched it but it didn't break. This is the same type of material they have used on ag tracs for years. One other advantage is it won't rust when scratched.2 cent: your concern for the pedals is a good one. I have driven many of the rocker type hydros and they are a pain after a while, feather or no. The reason that no one else has the 2 pedals is because Deere patented it. You can bet that when the patent runs out the others will jump on it. If you are going to be doing much loader or mower work the two pedal system is better.oh heck a third cent: the loader on a 4600 is impressive. It will lift more than a ton(2325 LBS.) It is real easy to hook up (no tools). I have a 4400 also and the hookup is the same, It works pretty nice. I guess the thing that bugs me about the new compacts is that there are no test drives anymore. You have to buy a pig in a poke! last but not least, I stopped by a New Holland dealer and they are coming out with a few larger compacts(up to 45 HP) in the spring. I like the ergonomics of those tractors. but that pedal thing is still there.hope it helps, mike ....
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| MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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1999-08-19 7081
Jack,Resin tractor skin is more resilient than sheetmetal. For some reason people are afraid of plastic's strength and its longevity, yet what is the most difficult thing to deteriorate in a landfill? Surely not Sheetmetal! Also, scratches on plastic can be sanded/polished out to look like new. As far as the hydro issue, IMHO, both make reliable units. I personally don't care for the awkwardly designed Kubota system, nor do I care for the Independent brakes to be on the same side as the hydro pedal. Guys talk about using the cruise, but anyone who has used these brakes for turning while performing loader operations knows that setting the cruise isn't worth the hastle. Till I messed around with all of that hassle, I could have done a K turn or something.I think Horrific is a strong word. I can honestly say that I looked and drove both makes with a fine tooth comb, and would never consider one to be Horrific! I would take plastic fenders over sheetmetal anyday. Its nice not worrying about rust or dents. ....
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| Alan L.
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1999-08-19 7111
It feels perfectly natural to me for the HST pedal and the brake pedal(s) to both be on the right side of the tractor. That's how my truck is with its automatic transmission and anything else would not feel natural to me (and the JD doesn't). I have used the loader about 25 hours so far and have yet to have the inclination to stop one side of the tractor to turn sharper. The tractor seems to turn sharp enough as it is (B2710).The position of the HST pedal is just perfect to me and requires just the right amount of pressure. I have mowed 7 or 8 hours at a time with no undue fatigue.Although the cruise works OK on my tractor I don't use it, as I would want the tractor to stop if I somehow fall off.Arrangement of the controls really is a matter of preference and Kubota has not sold all those tractors with the configuration of the controls "wrong", although some obviously prefer the JD configuration. ....
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| MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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1999-08-20 7136
Jack,As the postings indicate, peoples preferences, opinions and likes vary like the weather. IMHO, you need to demo the units, or at least drive them.Basing a decision on mashing the hydro pedal at idle proves little, other than its ability to "pull away" from another make at that RPM. Which has little to do with reliability or your pleasure of use in my "opinion". And it surely won't mean a thing if it ends up with a for sale sign because your not happy with it. Best of Luck in your search :o) ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-21 7185
See, when I use my turn brakes on my John Deere 4200 HST.. I don't have to make long term plans of switching my cruise control on to use the turn brakes. My brakes are there when I need em. Just step on em!!! You all know that Kubota didn't have good engineering when it came to this feature. You shouldn't have to go thru a cruise control procedure. Most of the time it's a split second instint to use the turn brakes.. not a long term plan!!! ....
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| lou
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1999-08-22 7221
I DROVE TWO 4200 HST'S AND WHEN MAKING BRAKE ASSITED TURNS AT MODERATE RPM'S, THE MACHINE BOGGED DOWN SEVERELY. THERE WERE NO ATTACHMENTS ON EITHER OF THESE TRACTORS. IT WAS ALSO HARD TO SWITCH BETWEEN RANGES. I ALSO DROVE A 4300 SYNC REVESER WHICH WAS ALSO VERY HARD TO SHIFT BETWEEN RANGES OR MAIN GEARS. I THOUGHT THAT MY INEXPERIANCE WITH THIS NEW LINE COULD BE TO BLAME SO I HAD THE SALES PERSON GIVE IT A TRY. HE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS. I COULD DESRCIBE THE FEEL AS RUBBERY AS APOSED TO THE OLDER MODELS SUCH AS THE 770 WHICH FELT VERY CERTAIN. I DID NOT HAVE ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS WITH THE KUBOTA.I WOULD NOT HAVE THOUGHT TWICE ABOUT ANY OF THE OLDER JD MODELS BUT I JUST DID NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE NEW ONES.I NOW HAVE A NEW 3710 HST AND LOVE IT. I MOW 12.5 ACES WITH NO PROBLEMS. ....
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| Doug
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1999-08-25 7297
Jason,I agree with you that the design could be better but to say that it takes long term planning to use the brakes is a little bit of exageration. Retirement is long term planning, Kids education is long term planning flipping a lever to set the cruise control uses 2-3 kcal and at best 100 -200 neurons. I don't don't think that this outweighs all of the benefits of the Kubota.Doug ....
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| Dave K
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1999-08-25 7303
Jack,After seeing all of the postings here and elsewhere with complaints about the JD's (tire scuffing, damaged hydraulics, long delays in shipment, and pedal problems and maybe some I missed) and so few complaints about Kubota I am leaning towards the L series Kubota. I have heard from several sources that in JD's attempt to keep up with Kubota they have cut several corners and have come up with a product that is not what the older JDs were......not as solid and predicted reliability is not as good.good luck with your decision and thanks to all that contribute to this forum and the others it really is great source of info.Dave ....
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| Kevin_SC
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1999-08-25 7305
Joe, sorry for not responding any sooner, just havent had time. I got my information from the Deere and Kubota flyers. And my deduction came from the way the loads were taken. Deere used all loads at the pin, Kubota takes there loads at the edge of the bucket. And I was also looking at the 420 and 430 deere loaders vs the LA481 loader. Please I wasnt trying to start a color war, this was just my opinion and I have been wrong before. I do like the Deere and almost bought one, I just needed a tractor then not 6,7,8 months later. I have almost 25 hrs on my L3010HST and would still be waiting on the Deere that was ordered in late April.Regards Kevin ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-25 7311
What I mean by long term planning, is that anything other than just stepping on your left or right brake is planning. Using your brakes is something that is instant. Should not have to push other buttons. Imagine in your car if there was a car infront of you that you had to hit the brakes. But you had to flip another lever before your brakes would do what they were supposed to do? Well? That to me is long term planning.. took to long didn't it... ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-25 7312
What I mean by long term planning, is that anything other than just stepping on your left or right brake is planning. Using your brakes is something that is instant. Should not have to push other buttons. Imagine in your car if there was a car infront of you that you had to hit the brakes. But you had to flip another lever before your brakes would do what they were supposed to do? Well? That to me is long term planning.. took to long didn't it... ....
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| Dave
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 113 New Jersey
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1999-08-25 7313
Typically, a brake turn is planned, in that, you know when you get to the endof a row you plan on turning. Very unlike the emergency braking you describe when a car stops suddenly in front of you. come on. ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-25 7327
Yes I see your point, yes they are planned for doing rows etc? But what about when you are scraping up Ice and Snow? And your two front wheels are well above the ground and you are in the middle of a good scrape, but need to turn with your brakes? I wouldn't dare set a cruise control and do that? What about when you are rototilling and you are in the middle of a row? and you need to make a slight adujustment within the length of the machine to keep you on your row? Well if your cruise isn't already set, then you more likely missed your oppurtunity to straighten yourself out. Experienced operators would know exactly what I am talking about. And I don't mean experienced cruise control+turn brake people, because they wouldn't know the real difference if that is all they have gotten used to. ....
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| terry
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1999-08-25 7330
what are the benefits of the Kubota? I have missed something. ....
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| Dave
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 113 New Jersey
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1999-08-25 7332
I agree with your argument that the turn brake manuever on the JD is better than other compacts. I echo Doug's comment about there could be a better design on the Kubota. I just thought of your emergency braking scenario to be a bit silly, that's all. ....
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| Doug
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1999-08-27 7381
Terry, Don't get me wrong I think the JD is a good machine but so is the Kubota and some times people try to compare apples to oranges ie: implying that the JD has a more powerful front loader when in fact it does not, they are comparable but the specs are misleading because one measures the force from the pin and the other measures from the front of the bucket....it has been a long time since physics and calculus but I do know that those are not equivalant measurements.To answer your question directly the advantages of the Kubota in my opinion are:1) No tire scuffing, that the maufacturer won't work to correct.2) No long waits for delivery3) Better price 4) No pedal problems5) No hydaulic lock problem6) Some would ssy that the brake pedals are problem and some would say that it isn't and some would say that plastic fenders are a drawback and some would say that it isn't, so I guess that that is a draw. Evryone has there own preferance and it may even come down to the particular dealer that you are working with but I found that I liked the orange and others obviously won't agree but that is life!Have a good day, Doug ....
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| art
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1999-08-28 7411
I never saw an experienced tractor driver driving a four wheel drive tracor with the front wheels in the air. maybe its just the way you apply? ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-28 7417
Well, then you seen anyone experienced then have you? There are lots of time other experienced drivers will have their front wheels off the ground. Unless the only people you see are Kubota HST operators that can't physically do this trick because they can't steer. When scraping up sheets of Ice off pavement, you use your entire front end wieght to lift the ice. When smoothing over "backdragging" dirt.. you use your total front end weight to apply full compact preasure to smoothing over the dirt. So that comment you made only made you sound more "Wet behind the ears". ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-28 7418
Well, then you seen anyone experienced then have you? There are lots of time other experienced drivers will have their front wheels off the ground. Unless the only people you see are Kubota HST operators that can't physically do this trick because they can't steer. When scraping up sheets of Ice off pavement, you use your entire front end wieght to lift the ice. When smoothing over "backdragging" dirt.. you use your total front end weight to apply full compact preasure to smoothing over the dirt. So that comment you made only made you sound more "Wet behind the ears". ....
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| art
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1999-08-28 7421
Please show me these instructions for operation from an owners manual I must have missed that section . All of what you just said can be done and should be done with wheels on the ground. You are a warrentee claim waiting to happen. ....
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| Jason MacKenzie
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1999-08-28 7441
All of what I have said, can be done better just the way I said. As far as warranty claims waiting to happen. It has never happened! Not in the 13 yrs having a Compact tractor. Maybe that is in your Kubota Manual. They mention those things for in manuals for liability purposes for inexperienced users. I personally don't think you even know what you are talking about when it comes to this subject. So don't throw your two cents worth in till you know what you are talking about. If you have never picked your front wheels up off the ground to do any kind of work at all to apply preasure etc. you are either a wimp with your tractor, because of inexperience or just lying to me for the sake of argument. ....
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| MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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1999-09-01 7543
You guys are better than watching a bunch of kids in a "nuh huh" argument.When you stop fighting over who's sandbox has the better toys, we would probably all agree on what we are disagreeing about. Kubota's loader is stronger, but JD's controls are more ergonomically correct & easier to install/remove. The belly mowers are both excellent, with JD taking a slight lead due to the almost $3K price tag on Kubota's. both engine manuf's are proven & rated first class. JD has some plastic skin, and Kubota has some metal...this is probably personal preference, but anyone experienced with plastic will find it takes a beating better than sheetmetal, lasts longer, and remains rust free. As far as hydro controls, all the crap about controls belonging on one side or another, or being like my pick-up is rediculous. Your truck doesn't come to a stop when you release the forward pedal,or have rear left/right brakes. And your hydrostatic tractor doesn't free wheel to a stop light!! To say that Kubota's hydrostatic handles "mashing the pedal at idle" better than JD is probably true, possibly making it the stronger of the two. But anyone who is truely being fair, unbiased & experienced with industrial equipment of any magnitude would agree that Kubota could have done better in laying out the foot controls. And Yes, "some" have experienced long waits for a JD, and yes, JD has first year production issues. Maybe we need to bring up Kubota's first year problems like we have for JD. The fact is, even if no-one knew that the same two tractors, had different color skin, we would argue that one was somehow better. When its all said and done, its nice to know that Kubota's strengths will improve JD's, and vise vera. ....
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| dan
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1999-09-27 8336
when you fill your front loader with dirt have you ever seen anyone bring there front tires off the ground to fill it full of dirt. I have you havethe extra weight for down pressure. What do you think. ....
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| Alan L.
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1999-09-27 8337
I pick the front wheels off the ground all the time although its not necessarily on purpose. It just happens when you're trying to get a good bite. Of course then you can't steer so you have to let up so the front end will come back down. ....
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| art
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1999-09-28 8344
Dan, Not being there or watching what was happening you might not have had the bucket tipped properly to go into the soil or stones you were digging into. I have also seen some mighty square cutting edge's on buckets before. There are also limitations to all machines so some times patience is needed to work with the size of the machines that we choose. I've seen many cylinder's come into my shops and the people tell me they had the front wheels off the ground trying to dig and all of a sudden the bucket folded under and bent the rams to the cylinders. I listen to some people who seem to think that they need to do loader work on two wheels and I don't believe you need to, If you watch me long enough you might catch me on two wheels but it is the exception not the rule. I've watched people who think they need to spin there tires on a tractor with hydro drive to fill there bucket instead of taking a smaller bite. There are many makes and models of machinery out there and when used properly they will probably out live any of us so why try to destroy them thru missuse. ....
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| dan
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1999-09-28 8350
ah but you can steer using your left and right rear brakes ....
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| dan
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1999-09-28 8351
what I was getting at when you go in with the front loader on its flat side tofill it up, people do tend to lift the front end off the ground to fill it up.they lift it off the ground at the point when it is being filled. ....
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| art
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1999-09-28 8352
Dan, WHY? do you need to do that. I'm not saying your not supposed to drop it on the ground but tilt the bucket down. evan scraping to clean up you don't need to lift the front tires off the ground. The job should be done with the front end on the ground so you have better control over how much you are digging down. If the bucket catches and the relief valve trips you stand a chance to ride over the bucket and bend the dump cylinders. art ....
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| dan
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1999-09-29 8402
yeh but what it you are dragging it backwards which would be the smart thing to do. You are right about dragging it forward that would not be smart to do. ....
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