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Kubota John Deere

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DTNPROP
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 30 TEXAS
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2003-11-22          69351

Hello to all-I am still looking around for my tractor and have a few questions for ya'll. I decided I would really like a full cab and air. I found a new Kabota 3430 with a cab and air with loader at $23,000. More than I wanted to go but it is new with warranty and the cab and air. I know Chief likes his JD but maybe he can give me a comparison to the Kabota. Also I believe there was a person out there who deals with the Kabota and he could let me know anything I had better ask up front and also if I am in the ball-park with the price. My many thanks to you all.

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Kubota John Deere

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Art White
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Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-11-23          69383

It will probably take a year or more yet before Deere gets on the band wagon and follows Kubota with a factory rops cab with air conditioning and a good package of ammenities. They may even use an exclusive aftermarket cab provider like Sims who has experience with that style cab. After all how long did Kubota have the market to itself with the commercial line of small loader backhoes. Local dealers have been telling customers next year for about three to four years so they are working on it. ....

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Kubota John Deere

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DTNPROP
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 30 TEXAS
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2003-11-23          69401

Thanks for the reply Art. I believe you are the individual that is actually a Kubota fan. Is that correct? What do you think I should pay for a new Kubota as I described if I can't find a good used one? Is this a big enough tractor to add a backhoe, post hole attachmet or anything else I might want? I don't want a small unit. Thanks again for all your insight. ....

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Kubota John Deere

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2003-11-23          69403

What !!
Art's a Kubota fan,I really never noticed.(Hee! Hee!) ....

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Kubota John Deere

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F350Lawman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 411 Goshen, NY
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2003-11-23          69404

"What !!
Art's a Kubota fan,I really never noticed.(Hee! Hee!)"

I heard he needs to have someone else come into the room and type...gulp...John Deere for him :) :)

....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2003-11-23          69405

Art is also a Kubota DEALER. His ad is to the right...... ....

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Kubota John Deere

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F350Lawman
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2003-11-23          69406

We know, we were just having a little fun. :) Everyone has their own favorite tractor, nothing wrong with that.

If your gonna sell one it should be your favorite. ....

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Kubota John Deere

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Art White
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2003-11-23          69412

Get to sell three brands and still have a favorite. Lawman, I just have a real tough time using caps on jd! I need someone to type everything for me. ....

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Art White
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2003-11-23          69413

Thoughts are that the air could be a nice thing! I would need to know more about what you are going to do before I would tell you how good you are doing. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-11-23          69414

DTNPROP, that is a pretty good price. If $23,000 was more than you wanted to go on price, then a comparable John Deere (4410)would be out of the question as a 4410 with ehydro, Dual Mid & Single Rear SCV, 27x8.5-15 6PR Front & 43x16-20 4PR Rear R4 Ind. tires, and 430 loader would be running around the $20,500 mark. Add a Curtis Cab with air and that number will go up quite a bit depending on which model cab and the goodies on it. I would have to check on the actual price, but they are NOT cheap but are VERY nice cabs.

If a cab and air is on your gotta have list. I would say go with the Kubota. The comparison Kubota uses on their web site with the 4310 is not a valid apples to apples comparison although the 4310 will do pretty much everything the L3430 will. The 4310 would be priced more in the range you are considering around $19,000 equipped as above. With the cab and goodies would be competitively priced.

They are both good tractors. My advice would be to price out and demo models you want to compare and go with the tractor package that appeals most to you and the uses you have in mind. Personally I liked the egonomics and features such as the ehydro, motion match, and load match. Another big thing that swayed my decision to John Deere was the heavy duty build of the MMM; 7 guage steel. Most of their equipment is built that way. I believe Kubota still uses 10 guage steel but I am not sure....at least at the time they did. The Yanmar diesel is one of the best engines money can buy, and has an excellent reliability reputation. Still the Kubota engines are extremely reliable as well. I also liked the logistic support John Deere offered as compared to other dealers in my area. That does not mean the Kubota dealer in your area will not provide fine support.

Bottom line is.......those are your "Green Backs" and you are the final decision maker as to the uses you have in mind and must compare as well as judge how well each model stacks up as well as how the dealer in your area stacks up.

The Kubota I owned prior to my 4410 was a good little tractor but it was much older so it would not be fair to compare it to the 4410 I have now. It was a cold natured beast but I learned to accomodate it. I don't think the newer Kubota's are but the glow plug design of the engine is dated. The Yanmar on my 4410 uses an intake passage heater grid.

In my case, I got a VERY good price and the dealer takes VERY good care of me. Anyway, hope this was of some value to you in making your decision. Good luck! ....

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Chief
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2003-11-23          69419

I almost forgot the other factor that made up my mind. The chicks REALLY do dig the green paint. Like I said before, I think it has something to do with the green M&M phenomenon. ;-) ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-11-23          69422

One thing to consider is loss of power with a cab and air. There was a post I read somewhere else and the tractor owner had a tractor bought back by the manufacturer because of lack of power with the cab/air package. It seems the tractor would have run the implements it is rated for without the cab option but had trouble with these SAME implements with the factory cab/air. This was a bigger tractor but it would seem to only be worse with smaller machines. From what this guy said, a tractor that is rated at say 50 hp from the factory won't be near 50 hp with the AC, bigger alternator, etc, that the cab model will likely have.

This guy was happy with the eventual outcome as JD gave him full $$$ back towards a bigger machine, but why go through the hassles. Just a thought, it may be a good idea to make sure you size the tractor big enough so you have ponies to spare :)

I just looked at the Kubota website (link below) and that looks like a nice machine. They do list the power difference the 3430 is rated at 32.1 engine gross and 24 PTO hp with the cab. I don't know how much or if the optional items like, front and rear defrosters, cassette players, front and rear work lights might effect it further.

I bet those rating are just with the additional equipment and belts installed and not turned on.

Hey, Art do they rate this with the stuff on or is it like cars where the rating is just with the pulleys for the AC etc. in place. Meaning when you crank the AC up and turn everything on getting the alternator dragging, 24 hp might be but a memory???

I think this is where the other guy I posted about got into trouble, when he cranked it up power sagged. ....

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Art White
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2003-11-24          69433

I doubt it that they put much worry of the power an alternaotr will drag down but it is a good point. I often look more at the weight an engine might have to drag around every time it moves that does nothing 90% of the time to enhance a tractors operation. A local retire just got the desire to change his current farmette around and after being eaten up for the last years of his farming by Deere I got lucky. I just sold a MX5000 on Friday afternoon to a fellow, and the tractor that had his interest the most was a fat tractor! This fellow I've never been able to sell to before as he has been happy green even though we have talked many times and he was almost open minded I could never cut the deal that the green guys could. The tractor that had the right price this time was to fat! He had to get down to low gear to pull the spreader out of the barn yard and up the hill! His old Super 55 Oliver Diesel never had any trouble and neither did the Kubota. He was at the best of all dealers as they are all within 15 miles of his door. Don't worry to much about the added power requirements unless the tractor is set up to heavy or it is a gear drive as they have no ability to fine tune speeds other then cutting the throttle or riding the clutch. The Hydro on PTO work will easily out perform any gear drive tractor and on the PTO work it is like having an added 10% more horsepower. When it comes to dead pull, the hydro will move the most without spinning but the gear, if it is rated for the pull will be the best the longest. To much of a small tractors work is not hard pulling which makes the hydro's the number one choice for many compact tractor owners today. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-11-24          69448

Engines probably are speced without any accessories. There would be some loses even for unloaded alternators and pumps. I don't imagine idle alternator and pump loses are much but at least tractor manufacturers are honest in that drive train losses are made obvious through the difference between engine and pto hp. HP to the wheels and pto are what determines the work a tractor will do, and engine hp isn't a very useful measure.

Using accessories may not change an engine's rated hp but it sure will add to load and reduce what is available for everything else. With my turfs the only times I've lugged the engine is when I'm using traction and hydraulics at the same time. Some examples of added load are: Each 750 watts of electrical power requires around 1 hp not including losses. Six gpm of hydraulic flow at 1,500 lbs. takes over 6 HP for pumps around 80% efficiency. In Art's example of weight as a loss; each 550 lbs. that moves 1' vertical per second takes 1 hp. Going up hills really sops up the hp. ....

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Kubota John Deere

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-24          69450

Almost all our machines now are full cab & A/C.

We haven't been able to notice a difference yet.

The cab and heater are requirements now for snow removal up here and the A/c is now required for summer operation because of the cab creating het build-up. Most of the operators preferred open station machines and didn't want a cab at first, now if you ask them which they prefer and why they say the cab, because they like the RADIO, go figure.....

Best of luck. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-11-24          69480

"Almost all our machines now are full cab & A/C.

We haven't been able to notice a difference yet.

The cab and heater are requirements now for snow removal up here and the A/c is now required for summer operation because of the cab creating het build-up. Most of the operators preferred open station machines and didn't want a cab at first, now if you ask them which they prefer and why they say the cab, because they like the RADIO, go figure....."

Yeah, tell them to get FM/AM headphones :)

I would think your machines are a little bigger? I can't see how switching on an A/C and accesories on a 24 pto hp tractor will allow it still to operate, say a 5' RC or the 7' FM it was just rated for without the options?? Hills would seem to be real interesting.


....

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Kubota John Deere

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F350Lawman
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2003-11-24          69482

"To much of a small tractors work is not hard pulling which makes the hydro's the number one choice for many compact tractor owners today."

I really wasn't thinking about the hydro losing power but your comments are interesting. ALL these manufacturers give lower pto hp figures for their hydros vs. gear when both options are available on the same tractor. I am assuming these are the results of tests by the manufacturers.

You seem to have a nice outfit there. Why don't you dino one if these 24pto hp cab/air machines with everything turned on and let us know the results. I am betting the figures are way lower than 24 pto hp. I may be wrong.

I often read on here that 24hp is borderline for 5 ft cutters and 7ft mowers so this might be important to someone. Me I aint' got' no cab, no air, no radio, no defroster, no windshield, and no hst.. so I'm not worried :)

My "CAB" is a full length oilskin duster, black neoprene face mask, black cowboy hat and work gloves!

Cheap and functional....;)

It would be nice to have a cab/heater for the winter, as long as I am moving in the summer I don't see a need.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-24          69483

We are bound by certain constraints on what we can run as far equipment goes.

Mostly we're force to fit the following 'rules';

- under 5' in width.
- under 4,000 pounds weight.
- HST transmissions (new this year, & for snow only).
- Full cab with ROPS (new this year, & for snow only).
- 4WD .

Ours are 40hp gross, the A/C, etc., doesn't seem to add any 'seat of the pants' noticeable load. I had a 5' RC on the back of my machine, mind you it's a little bigger, but with the A/C on it was cutting through stuff taller than the hood with no problem at all.

As for the headphones, I'd love to but the stange part is under Health & Safety Reg.s they can't wear a walkman or radio headphones, they CAN have a radio in the cab.

Best of luck. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-11-24          69485

Funny you mention no radio headphones. Iwas going to gett hem, but I do feel uncomfortable being totally cut off from my surroundings.

Sounds like you have some nice toys, small but still with 40hp is a nice machine for most of us. ....

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Art White
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2003-11-24          69489

On the headphones many of my customers with older tractors with out the cabs are running them. They do help keep out the noise and I've been told by them that when something is going wrong they can hear it better. Unlike cars many tractors govoners are set up to keep the tractor at the rated pto speed with a hot spot on that speed. I would think for what I've seen when playing on the dyno that it might not even be able to recognize it. ....

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DTNPROP
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 30 TEXAS
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2003-11-26          69693

First let me say thanks to all of you who have responded to my questions on Kubota vs JD. Art you asked what I was wanting to do with the tractor to be sure I had enough power with the cab and air. I want to use a post hole attachment-a front bucket-a brush hog on 25 acres and a roto-tiller around my orchard. I can not find a good used one with cab so I will shop for new. Is the extra cost of 5-6 thousand worth going for in my situation for a 5030 and would the money be well wirth it for trade in down the road? Again my thanks! ....

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Art White
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2003-11-26          69709

Depending on the terrain and your choice of bush-hogs I think you would have all the power you need. The cab feature we have people buying more and more, Allergys,weather,when leaving the tractor out controls are not in the weather,quietness to name a few. I don't believe you can get anybody to pay more for what they want then they have to spend for that purpose. What is it worth for you to be comfortable? ....

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Murf
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2003-11-26          69714

Your wish list MAY be a problem to fill without some big sacrifices.

Traditionally you want as narrow a machine as possible for orchard work, in fact almost every manufacturer offers special versions of certian models customized to be as narrow as possible to enabkle orchard work without damaging either the trees or the machine itself.

Depending on the terrain this could present a real challenge when it comes bush-hogging or loader work where you would normally want the machine as wide as possible for stability.

Think long & hard, then talk to other owners and a few good dealers.

Best of luck. ....

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