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How Much Can a 790 w loader do

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Brian Alink
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2001-10-03          32194

Alright, here's the situation. I bought a 790 about 2 years ago but couldn't afford the front end loader at the time. Now I have saved up and am contemplating buying the loader soon BUT my project may merit hiring someone with big equipment rather than spending the money on the loader. So, who has attempted some serious tree clearing with their 790 with a 70A front end loader? I have about 6 acres with many trees 8 - 10 inches in diameter. I want to clear all the small stuff and leave the massive oaks etc. for a park like atmosphere rather than the jungle effect I have today. I am looking for an excuse to give my wife to buy the loader but if I'll have to end up hiring the dozer guy too that will be bad!

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Glen Schattner
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2001-10-04          32197

I have a 790 with 4 wd and the loader.......it's great for pushing snow, moving loose soil and gravel etc....and I emphasize " LOOSE"....
if it is compacted in any way.....it's a no go.....

it's a light duty tractor and a very light duty loader.....as soon as your bucket hits something too hard or you try and dig or lift compacted material, you can see the loader arms starting to flex.!!! not good....

so in answer to your question about tree removal.......my answer would be a definite no to that...save your money and your machine...hire the dozer guy.......

that's probably not what you wanted to hear,,,but the truth from an owner/operator......

Glen ....

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Rob Munach
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2001-10-04          32198

It depends on the tree size and type. You can bushog small pines that are 2" or less and the stumps will rot out in 4 months. Other trees will grow back. If you put a toothbar on the loader you may be able to dig out some of the others. I have a toothbar for my 790 (but have not installed it yet). Glen is correct in that the loader (w/o a toothbar) is pretty useless for anything that is not loose and does flex somewhat. We had the same situation recently and used an excavator to pull clumps of small pines and sweetgums trees straight out of the ground. As such, our top soil was not damaged like it would be with a dozer. And, he he was able to shake the trees clean of dirt and pile them up nicely for burning. It went very quickly. He did about 3 1/2 acres of super dense pines and sweetgums in 3 days. ....

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Rob Munach
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2001-10-04          32204

I just re-read the original post. Your 790 would be useless against 8 to 10" trees (as would most compacts or even large tractors). Hire someone with an excavator. ....

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Brian Alink
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2001-10-04          32205

Thanks for the advice - I suspected hiring someone with large equipment is the best choice. I may still buy the loader for addressing some soil erosion problems and my personal fun factor. ....

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Art White
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2001-10-04          32206

Brian it would also be useful in picking up future debris from storms and to maybe do the final grading after the big toys have left. ....

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Depdog
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2001-10-04          32218

Hey Brian

I have a JD790 w/loader,4wd and have done alot more with it than I thought it could do. Down here in FL. I used it on small 1-3 in. trees and brush and it did pretty good. I was able to get about 75% of the palmettos out of the ground, but some would not budge. I removed dead pines 12-16in. by 70'(lightening struck),but had to drop them by chainsaw and cut into 10-14'sections. The stumps will have to rot. The loader for a tractor is worth the money,You have a larger range of lift than a boom,ease of moving dirt,debris and objects w/o having to handle them. (unless loaded by hand) and a push/pull scrape option. I did alot using a toothed box blade on roots and then used the loader to push it out of the way for another pass. If you have a BIG job or you dont have the time to do a little @ atime, then get the big boys in there. I hope that helped with your decision, I know my tractor won't do everything I need done,but it does far.........more than I can.

Take care
John ....

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vic fife
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2001-10-28          32707

I have a question along the same lines. Was moving loose gravel w/790 and 70 FEL when the loader came off. Having trouble remounting because I can't get the hydraulic lines reconnected. I've tried working the control in all 4 directions to relieve pressure on the lines but still can't reconnect. Anyone have any suggestions? In response to the question....apparently you can't move a large bucket load of loose gravel in a 790 w/loader. ....

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Peters
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2001-10-28          32712

Vic;
You need to have the motor off to releave the pressure. Did you try it with the motor off?
Peters ....

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TomG
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2001-10-29          32722

If the line disconnected when there was a load in the bucket, then there probably is pressure in a cylinder line. If so, then hand pressure may be insufficient to depress the ball seal in the male fitting end and then the line can't be reconnected. To relieve pressure in a male end hose, wrapping the hose end in a rag and pushing it against a hard surface often is sufficient. A rag is needed because there can be a large squirt of oil under considerable pressure. Some times the ball needs to be whacked with a soft mallet. Once I was unable to depress the ball by any means that I didn't think could damage the connector. I ended up loosening a fitting until the pressure bled off. Anyway, this risk exists anytime a line is disconnected without everything sitting on the ground with the pressure relieved--as Peters noted 'with the engine off.' However, the same problem can happen if an implement was removed on a cool day and then remounted while it's setting in the sun on a hot day.
....

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Bird Senter
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2001-10-29          32726

Vic, if you've worked the controls in all directions with the engine off, then you shouldn't have any pressure built up on the tractor end. So now you go to the hoses on the loader, and like Tom said, relieve the pressure in those hoses. He mentioned tapping the ball in the end, so I'm assuming he is accustomed to hoses with the male coupler on the loader and female on the tractor (which is what I've always been accustomed to myself); however, on my front end loader, the female coupler is on the loader hose, so I have to put a drift pin (punch) in there, wrap a rag around it, and hit the end of the punch with a hammer. And the only time I've had to do it is when, like Tom said, I had taken the loader off in cool weather and went to put it back on it hot weather. ....

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vic fife
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2001-10-29          32728

Thanks gentlemen. I tried loosening the fittings on the lines of the loader. Worked like a charm. Finished our work on a beautiful fall day. Just wish those lessons 'learned the hard way' weren't so difficult. ....

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Peters
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2001-10-29          32734

Glad to see that the problem was resolved. My second suggestion would have been to release the pressure in the bucket. I was worried that your post would not be seen on the bottom of the other posting. I use the KISS principle to problem solving, look at the simplest first.
Like an onion the problems can be come more indepth.
....

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DRankin
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2001-10-29          32741

Back to the original question: If you plan to saw the trees down I think you can move some really big peices of timber with your FEL and a heavy hook on the bucket or by getting a boom pole such as the one from Northern Tool. If your plan is to bulldoze the trees with a small tractor I reckon that won't work so well. If they are not deeply rooted you can pull a fair size tree down but it take a big machine to rip trees out of the earth or push them over. ....

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TomG
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2001-10-30          32755

A couple of notes that are admittedly barely on topic: Logs can shift pretty easily and create unexpected load shocks. If I'm moving heavy loads with my loader, I run a chain through the pipe between the two lift arms and make a short loop with a grab hook. A line from the loop to the load can be run. Some reach may be sacrificed, but a heavy or shock load in the middle of a bucket can easily bent it. A common trick of running a chain around the top of the bucket and putting a grab hook on the bucket blade should be used with some caution. Permanently installed hooks on both ends of the bucket, near the arms, distribute loads better. If whole logs are being moved, it's a good idea to keep in mind that logs are renown for deciding to take-off down hill or to hang-up while being skidded. If these errant logs are attached to a loader, there's a good chance a tractor could be over-turned. Myself, I only drag things from the draw bar, and I keep a 1" clevis pin that fits neatly on the drawbar handy. Regarding hydraulic fittings: it's a good idea to use sealant when loosening fittings. Liquid sealant or Teflon tape is commonly used. With either, it's important to cover only the upper portion of the threads. The lower threads on male fittings are exposed the oil flow. Any exposed sealant, or especially over-wrapped tape, can break loose and end up obstructing the oil flow. ....

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DRankin
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2001-10-30          32778

I have noticed a little tweaking from the tow hook I put in the center of my Deere 410 loader. I do believe I will try the two-hook method described above. Thanks for the tip.
Do you think it is a good idea to angle the hooks toward the center of the bucket? Maybe about 45 degrees or so? So that the pulling stress (when you use them together) is more in line with the bolt holes?
I agree that it is noticeably safer to pull dead weight loads such as logs from the three-point hitch. The beauty of the 3pt. boom pole is that one can chain up and lift the butt end of a log and drag it with less chance that it will snag on something.
Another trick I have discovered when I am trying to position a log to lift with the boom pole is to use the FEL bucket as a come-a-long. I back up until I lose traction and then with the bucket as low to the ground as I can manage I set the brake and "curl" the bucket to pull the load another couple feet, then "uncurl" the bucket, back up until the chain is tight and the traction disappears again and repeat the process. Very handy when pulling logs out of a grove of trees uphill. As soon as I can back the boom pole over the log I lift it as described above. The boom pole is also quite handy for lifting and maneuvering a chain harrow into tight places along fence line and into blind corners.
....

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TomG
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2001-10-31          32800

Well, I'm sure no expert on bucket hooks. I got tired of trying to use my loader for material handling and bought a true 3ph fork-lift before I got around to putting hooks on my bucket. The bucket hooks I've seen tend to be grab hooks welded on near the lift arms and perpendicular to the bucket blade, but I have heard of people using slip hooks as well. I believe either work, but with slip hooks, a grab hook or a bear-trap does have to be somewhere on the chain and there is the possibility of the chain loosening and a load on top the bucket slipping around and sliding the chain through the hooks. Regarding the angle of hooks: I think the issue is that grab hooks on chain ends don't lie flat against the chain. The hooks stick out at an angle and put a bend in the chain. I think grab hooks on a bucket probably work best when they recreate this angle from the direction of the load. I think the trouble is that with all the creativity in the way people chain loads to buckets, a person probably creates loads from many directions. Perhaps perpendicular is as good a saw-off as any. However, the thing not to do is put on a chain where a load shift could pull the chain out of its hook. A grab hook on a bucket can't change its direction to go along with a load shift like chain-end hooks can. Regarding loads, loaders and 3ph's: Skidding from a loader is pretty risky. There are 3ph implements designed for such tasks that are a lot safer, and you undoubtedly know this stuff. However, it's good to keep in mind a load on a 3ph does have an attachment point above the axles. It is still possible to lift the front and upset a tractor with a load on a 3ph implement. The drawbar is the only towing point on a tractor where there is no possible load vector above the axles. ....

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Peters
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2001-10-31          32811

I guess that I do not understand the problem. On my Bushhog loader I had a reinforcing bar along the top of the bucket. At the top edge of this bar I had small chain hooks welded. These were located near the bucket arm mounts. To lift a load I would tilt the bucket and chain the material I needed to lift. Then I could lift without the chain touching the bucket. The main problem was that the distance I could lift was reduced. But if it is a heavy load we do not need to lift too high anyway.
I have not modified my 70A JD FEL yet. What was wrong with this set up? I did bend the mounts on the Bushhog and had to weld gussets on them, but I thought it was a structural weakness. (Damm engineers)
I am also confused about the 3 pt hitch arrangement. My understanding of the 3pt hitch (MF) is that the 2 lower points should be below the axel, as both my tractors are. The upper point is above. When towing implements (arms low)the upper point should be in compression transfering the load to the front end of the tractor.
Obviously this is not the case when the 2 points are above the axel. This is important for lifting on the 3pt hitch but not for drawing with it. The draw bar maybe better in normal use but if you have a 3pt arrangement, not just a single bar I would think that you would have a better draft capability, with out loading weights on the front end. Isn't this what the 3pt hitch was designed for?
Peters
....

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TomG
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2001-11-01          32874

I think grab hooks near the lift arms is a conventional and good arrangement. The key is two hooks and adequate reinforcing on the upper bucket edge. My 3ph forklift wouldn’t be good for everybody. For me it does everything I want in material handling better than anything I could get for my loader and then some. The problem with slip hooks is that loads chained to the top of a bucket can shift and loosen the chain. If the chain loosens enough, the load can fall off the front or back of the bucket, and the chain just slides through the slip hooks. Regarding 3ph geometry: There is a long thread on the subject in the archives where I learned quite a bit. I believe the 3ph was invented to reduce over-turns resulting from unexpected load changes from ground-engaging implements. As I understand, an implement pivots on its lower link pins to compress the top-link. The top-link attaches above the axle, and compression helps keep weight on the front wheels. However, the mechanics only work when an implement such as a plow is engaged and moving forward. I believe that dead loads on the 3ph tend to lift the front. At least the way I visualize it is that a dead load puts some compression on the lower links which attach below the axles and also decompresses (there must be a better word) the top-link that attaches above the axles. Each force would serve to lift the front wheels. I know my steering is much lighter when I carry a heavy implement. I think the issue for log skidding with a 3ph is that it's common to lift log heads with the 3ph so they don't dig in. That creates a combination of drag and dead load on the 3ph. The trouble with logs is that they're pretty unpredictable. If one starts down a hill after you, the drag load goes to zero and the dead weight load may increase radically. Anyway, my point is that nobody should have a feeling of invincibility when carrying heavy weights on a 3ph. Over-turns due to 3ph implements do happen. I think there are 3ph logging arches available that would make tractor skidding safer. However, most people who are doing work like skidding firewood probably are well within safety limits of their equipment and wouldn't need an arch. ....

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DRankin
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2001-11-01          32880

I think the unspoken assumption (and maybe it is time to speak it) is that we all must work within the weight and power parameters of our machines. The was an interesting post last month about some one trying to move a mobile home many times heavier than his tractoer and the sheer weight of the thing overwhelmed the braking system and pushed the whole operation out of control into the ditch. I do not speak of moving mighty oaks or cottonwood trees on the 3ph but rather 8-10inch russian olives that I could muscle by hand if I had to. And Tom is right. Is is certainly possible to pick up something on the 3ph that will rock your front wheels off the ground. An ore cart comes to mind. But that is another story. ....

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TomG
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2001-11-02          32895

And definitely time for me to stop trying to put my visualizations about geometry into words. As a corollary to something I said about myself earlier: If feelings of knowledge are sure signs of ignorance, then so are long explanations. But, I keep learning and the explanations keep getting shorter, or so I hope. The simple 3ph explanation is that before the 3ph, if a plow hit a big root, the tractor came to an abrupt stop, the tractor tried to climb its own rear wheels in a wheelie, and the tractor was on its back in a blink. With the 3ph, the tractor the more the tractor tries to do a wheelie, the more the top-link is compressed. Compression pressure above the axles tends to hold down the front end. I feel a tug toward thinking about vectors between the lower link arms and the top-link, but that gets back into geometry. I'll resist the tug, because it's good to feel like a hero sometimes--more ignorance. ....

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Peters
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2001-11-02          32898

OK. I'll tell the truth. I read about how the top link worked a long time ago from an old Massey sheet of the 3pt link era. The only thing I could not understand is why everyone on the line keeps discussing pulling from the draw bar and not the 3pt hitch. True few of us have a true 3 pt link draw bar but it you were doing continuous pulling I would think it better to use the 3 pt hitch and gain a little control over the front end.
I had my old Oliver stand up and dance when pulling a trailer, not fun.
Peters ....

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TomG
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2001-11-03          32928

I think there's a tendency to repeat the standard safety mantra. However, some of the standard stuff has to do with liability and therefore if it's possible for something to injure themselves by doing something incredibly dumb, manufacturers say don’t it. Towing with a 3ph obviously works because people have done it for years. However, I believe there are limits, and operators should have a good sense of the limits and an understanding of the risks they are accepting. I may have mindlessly repeated the mantra a time or two but think I eventually came to an understanding. I think what happens with a 3ph is that the lower links attach to pivot points a short distance below the axles (about the same distance below the axles as the drawbar). Dragging force on the lower links tends to pull the front down and weight tends to lift the front. However, the lower links, unlike the drawbar, have an attachment from the link through the lift arms to rockshaft that is attached above the axles. This link provides a vector where both lifting and towing forces tend to lift the front. The size and direction of the vector would change with 3ph position. The vector also would tend to be relatively large due to the greater distance between the attachments above than below the axles. The top-link would have similar vectors for weight on the 3ph and also for towing unless a 3ph implement that is designed to compress the top-link when it is in use. Generally, I think drawbar tows are considered safer because drawbars don't have the additional force vectors of a 3ph. I imagine somebody will tell me if I haven't got this quite right, and I have thought of the illustration of skidding logs and using the 3ph to lift the log heads. There is both weight and towing force on the 3ph. The tractor starts up a hill, which pulls a greater length of the logs off the ground and results in increased weight on the 3ph. At the same time the vectors that apply weight on the front shorten due to the more vertical position of the tractor. I think the forces on a tractor can radically change during fairly normal operation, and the draw bar is less reactive to change than the 3ph. ....

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Depdog
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2001-11-08          33042

Hi Everybody
The bucket on my JD70 loader is slightly bent as if something had been wrapped around it and lifted causing the chain/cable to tighten and squeeze it out of shape ( purchased tractor used ). What can be done to straighten it out ??? Should a brace be welded to the bucket to stiffen it ??? Please repeat some of your thoughts on welding chain hooks to the bucket to lift and secure loads. Thank all of you who use the tractor board to help us new tractor owners with our sometimes silly questions... Thanks in advance. JOHN ....

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DRankin
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2001-11-08          33044

If I were going to straighten the top rim of a FEL I might try an hydraulic jack and an appropriate number of 2x4s or similar blocks and spacers. In terms of attaching hooks, I went to Napa Auto Parts and got a tow hook designed for the frame of a pick-up or SUV. The hook is rated at 10,000 LBS and since I am a lousy welder and I can buy lots of really cool Titanium (TiN)coated drill bits (God I love 'em), I drilled some holes in about 90 seconds and put the hook on with grade 8 bolts. I've seen welds give way, but I've never seen a pair of 3/8 or 1/2 inch Grade 8 bolts shirk their duty. ....

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Depdog
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2001-11-09          33069

Hi Mark
Thanks for the info. I had thought about the hyd. jack but was not sure if it would work. The idea on the tow hooks is good,but I was thinking along the lines of the hooks that catch each link of chain for a tight adjustment. I will look for ones I can bolt on after the straighting attempt. What about a piece of steel to brace the FEL for the future??? I am wary of drilling that many holes to bolt it on. What are yours or anybody elses thoughts???

Thanks in advance. JOHN ....

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TomG
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2001-11-10          33080

I'm not sure I've seen grade 70 or higher grab hooks made for bolt on applications. They probably exist, and I believe there is a web site that has pictures and descriptions of all sorts of chains and hooks--of course I can't remember the address. I don't know how the rating of automotive tow hooks compares to the grade 70 chain and hooks that usually are used in ag work, but I'd make sure the hooks are appropriate for the chain. The bottle jack idea for straightening a bucket top-edge probably will work. The jack probably would have to go between the top edge and bottom of the bucket. I've never thought if the top and bottom edges of a bucket are parallel, but the idea might become complicated if they aren’t. I'd put some of those spacers under the jack to distribute the force and make sure the bucket bottom is well supported. It wouldn't be great to bend the bottom while trying to straighten the top. In any application like this there always is the possibility of the jack slipping, so safety risks should be considered. I believe it's fairly common for people to weld reinforcing strips to the top-bucket edge. I haven't heard of any negative comments about the idea. Myself, I do any heavy chain lifting with my loader by running chain through the pipe that connects the lift arms together. That way, there's no chance of bending the bucket. The load also is closer to the tractor, which probably increases the lifting capacity a bit and reduces rear ballast needs. ....

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Bob in PA
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2001-11-10          33085

Tom, with regards to reinforcing the top edge of a bucket, I did that myself with the one on my previous tractor. It was a NH1620 w/ a 7308 FEL, and the original top edge of the bucket was nothing more than the sheet metal curled around into a squarish (don't know if that's a word or not) "C". It displayed a tendency to bow very early on, so I took plates of steel approx. 1/4"T X 3 1/2"W and welded them to the back of the "C". This created a steel channel for the top edge of the bucket and I never had any further trouble with it. It also gave me a good spot to weld a chain hook and two large bolts which I used to attach a removable homemade spill guard. I also had a tooth bar on the cutting edge of the bucket. The combination of these two things made for a much better setup than the original one. I should note that the bucket on my current 40D w/17LA FEL is much stronger, having been designed with a full roll of steel at the top edge that is approx. 2" in diameter. And it likewise has a tooth bar. ....

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TomG
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2001-11-11          33101

Bob: Sounds like a good job. The reinforcing is generally what I've heard people doing. My Allied loader bucket sounds similar to the one you reinforced, and I know it wouldn't carry much of a load on the top edge without it bending. Guess that's why I tend to run chain through the pipe between the lift arms for heavy loads. That also might be why I ended up buying a 3ph forklift. So now, my loader mostly moves gravel etc., which is what loaders do best. Of course, reinforcement and grab hooks on the bucket would have been much cheaper than the forks. ....

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Peters
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2001-11-11          33112

I have a 3 pt fork lift and had hooks on the bucket. I have not reinforced and welded hooks on the new bucket.
I think the point is different use. I would use the forks for a pallet or material piled on the pallet but I will sling with the FEL other awkward items. For example I will use the FEL to move 3pt equipment around to set in on a trailer or a seldom used attachments into the barn. I can not get the fork lift high enough for some items. I will also chain items into the bucket if they are too large and heavy.
The chain hooks have a greater break limit than the chain, therefore welded hooks are as strong.
The only down side to adding weight to the bucket with reinforcement etc is decreasing the load capacity.
In the west coast the industrial equipment is all welded to reinforce the buckets, teeth etc. Normally they are dealing with granite which will quickly wear a bucket. A new bucket is welded to increase the strength and increase the wear resistance. A weld is harder than the normal steel. Tips of teeth and everything is welded to prevent wear into the bucket. ....

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DRankin
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2001-11-11          33119

I guess I never thought of welding chain hooks (the kind that are designed to grab a link of chain) on my bucket. I went to the bolted on 10,000 lb. tow hook as a thought pattern from owning 4wd trucks. Like Peters I have found the big centrally located hook useful for snatching and positioning three point inplements. ....

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TomG
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2001-11-12          33138

I guess my use went the other way, and I use the 3ph forks for pallets and most all implement moving. I do recognize that most people do the work with their loaders, which is a perfectly good way of doing things. I'm certainly not making a 'users' contest here. I just hope everybody contributes good information that illustrates different ways of doing things. Using a loader for material handling didn't work great for me--perhaps because there often is nobody to assist. Long loads lifted high tend to swing back or twist into the tractor. Wide loads also can’t be lifted very high before they run into the tractor. Large loads on top of the bucket risk falling off the back and onto the tractor. The main problem is that loaders lift in arcs rather than true verticals. I solved these problems for myself with the forklift. However, we may not be comparing apples. There are 3ph forks that use only the 3ph hydraulics. My forks have their own lift and tilt hydraulics. Maximum lift with the carriage on the ground is over 5' and the forks can be raised further with the 3ph. It has a full backrest and a telescoping carriage so there is a steel frame between the load and the tractor (including the operator) no matter how high the lift. The 'L-forks' slide on a shaft at the top of the backrest so the fork width can be adjusted over a wide range. The forks swing from the shaft when the carriage is tilted forward, and the forks also are hinged in the middle. These features make the forks great for working with pallets where a big problem is matching fork and pallet angles so the forks will run freely under the pallets. However, with the forks it's also easy to pick up a 6' box scraper lengthwise and sit it in a truck that has a cap on it. The cap window always seemed to be in the way when I was using the loader. It’s not that I never use the loader for moving things. I sometimes run chain over the bucket top, around the middle of the bucket and hook a grab chain slot onto the blade edge. I believe that's a reasonably safe alternative to a hook in the middle--as long as the bucket angle is right and not changed. I'm also aware that forklift attachments are available for loaders that will do most of what my forks do. ....

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Depdog
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2001-11-12          33153

Hi Mark
Thanks for the information on the hooks. I like the idea of a large tow type hook in the center of the bucket and chain type hooks towards the sides. I regularly use the FEL to lift and hook/pull things besides dirt. The reinforcing of the top of the bucket should not add enough weight to notice ,as to my lifting capasaity.Thanks to everybody else for your ideas. I try to learn from others. Thanks , JOHN ....

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TomG
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2001-11-13          33154

I did some web searches in the area of chain hooks & hardware etc. I was trying to find the type of hook I have on my safety chains. I call them safety grab hooks, and they are sort of a heavy 'C' with a gate that prevents a link from popping out of the hook slot if a load slacks. I believe they are required for some types of highway transport in Ontario but may be uncommon elsewhere. I figured this type of hook might be of some interest here. While I was nosing around in various web catalogues, I noticed warnings that the clevis grab hooks pictured were not suitable for over-head lifting. I also noticed hooks described as hoist types were slip types, had eyes rather than clevises and seemed to be used in conjunction with slings. So, I started wondering if the warnings are about the grab hook type itself, the clevis type or the grade of steel (grade 70 is transport chain, but grades 80 & 100 are available). It seems like grab hooks may be used industrially for binding rather than lifting. I realize that 'overhead lifting' means dangling things from industrial cranes and hoists rather than loader buckets. However, I really don't know if there are any issues here for tractor owners. I think using grab hooks on chain used to lift loads with the bucket is a pretty widespread practice. ....

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Depdog
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2001-11-13          33180

Hi Tom

I have used chain,nylon straps and rope for many lifting chores and have allways made sure I was not under it or near enough to it to land on me" when" the cable/hook/clevis/ strap or chain !!!! broke/slipped/or just plain came loose. We have all seen our best efforts fail. The weight ratings are important and we should not exceed them. I will obtain hooks and chain, etc... that will do the job. I am finding new ways to do things from all the information that has been posted on the CTB. Thanks to you all. Thanks JOHN ....

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Peters
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2001-11-13          33187

The chain hooks must be stronger than the chain. Heavy chain has a 3000lb + break point.
The chain hooks I had on the bucket were not the standard chain end hooks. I have not seen the type of hook, made for welding readily available. The individual I bought the tractor off was with the army core of engineers in Kentucky and may have had access to this type.
I think that the smaller chain hooks are more useful than a larger hook. First they would not catch on any thing as they only stuck up approximately 1 1/2" above the bucket edge. Second you could easily tighten the chain by adjusting the links.
Unfortunately you can not easily sling with rope or nylon sling strap. ....

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TomG
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2001-11-14          33191

I think my 5/16th grade 70 chain (often called transport chain) has a rating of 3,900 lbs. My hooks also are rated as grade 70. I have several lengths of 3/8th chain and hooks as well, but it is too unwieldy for most of my uses, and I figure I seldom need the extra capacity anyway. Grade 80 and Grade 100 chain (also called alloy chain) is available but is very expensive. I think 5/16th Grade 70 is rated over 5,000 lbs. I read a note that Grade 80 is the only chain approved for overhead use (whatever overhead means, and I don't think tractor owners are doing it anyway).

These working load ratings may seem excessive for what a compact loader can lift. However, we all should keep in mind that a heavy load doesn't have to drop far before shock loads in those ranges are produced. I think the pressure relief valves in loader SCV assemblies probably limit shock loads on a chain. However, I think these valves often are set at over 3,000 lbs, which is above the load rating of a lot of Grade 40 & less chain. I believe these ratings are defined as ‘working load rating.’ I not sure if a chain’s rating means that it can withstand shock loads greater than the rating and that would be good to know.

Anyway what I think is important here for some new tractor owners is the idea that chain comes in grades. My tractor store sells only Grade 70 chain and hooks, which I believe are fairly standard for agricultural use. I don't think I'm going to break 5/16 chain in anything I do, but I still have some 3/8th for the overkill to which I'm given. On the other hand, some hardware store chain looks strong but isn't. I think I'd break garden-variety hardware store chain pretty easily.

Peters: One of the hardware suppliers’ web sites I found did list weldable grab hooks in their catalogue. Unfortunately, I set my browser recently to clear histories so now I can't get back to the site easily. If you're interested I could nose around a bit and see if I can come up with the address.
....

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Peters
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2001-11-14          33194

Thanks Tom;
I will search and post if I find it.
Eric Peters ....

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Peters
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2001-11-15          33215

Attached are not the hooks I was thinking of but load rings. These maybe useful. ....


Link:   Rud Chain

 
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TomG
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2001-11-16          33225

Dang! I can't find the site again. The weldable grab hooks were pictured as a normal sort of clevis hook but with the back end sawed off at an angle. I believe the bottom of the hook sat higher than the top when on a flat surface. In my nosing around I found that standard WWL's for 5/16th grade 70 chain may be 4,700 lbs. rather than the 3,900 I said. Don't know; maybe different rating definitions are used. And, as an illustration that the net has something for everybody, I found a reference for elephant lifting systems. Don't imagine I'll ever put my compact to such a use though. ....

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Peters
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2001-11-16          33233

I can not find the hooks either. I found weldable hooks but not the chain hooks. The difference in that you can grab just a link of chain securely in the chain hook and do not need to loop through the hook.
Peters ....

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Ken Califf
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2001-11-18          33264

I bought a pair of good quality forged 3/8 in. clevis hooks and used the grinder to put a flat edge on the back of the hook and welded one on each end of top of my bucket on my JD 1070. I have pulled, draged, lifted all the FEL will handle with no problems, sure comes in handy. I am just finishing a set of forks that will quick attach with 3/4 in. pins to move other loads with. Hope this helps.
Ken ....

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Depdog
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2001-11-19          33279

Hey KEN

Thanks for that idea about the hooks,That gives me another option on mounting hooks on the FEL. If anyone needs an owners manuel for a JD 790 I have an extra one that could be mailed ,if someone needs it. Leave a msg.on the CTB under this thread. Thanks , JOHN ....

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jyoutz
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2001-11-23          33369

John, I pretty much did the same thing as Ken. The clevis type grab hooks are the only kind I could find that are grade 70 steel. I installed mine differently though. Instead of welding the hooks direct to the bucket, I welded them to a piece of 3" x 3 x 1/4" angle iron (the angle iron was cut to the length of the top of my bucket lip). Then I used grade 8 bolts to bolt this assembly to the top lip of the bucket. I also used a piece of 1/4" flat iron fastened to the underside of the bucket edge, like a washer. This method greatly strengthened the bucket lip by adding 1/2" of steel thickness. It may be overkill, but I had read several posts from folks who had mentioned bending their bucket lip by lifting things with hooks. It doesn't cost very much to do this way and it's easy to do. It also has the bonus advantage of not having to take the bucket to a welding shop if you didn't have a welder. ....

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Depdog
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2001-11-26          33448

Hello jyoutz!!
I like the idea of strengthing the bucket and adding the hooks at the same time. The bolting idea is gaining favor with me over the welding as it is somthing I can do. If needed it can be removed and repaired or changed and down here, rust treatment can be performed.I will have to assemble my material and do this as a winter project.Thanks to Everyone who has provided great advice.
Thanks JOHN ....

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