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JD4400 owners journal

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JeffM
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2000-04-27          15131

Took delivery yesterday on a new JD4400 with 430 loader and 48 backhoe. Only got to play with it a little while, but thought I would share my experiences. So many people (myself included) use this board to help make informed purchase decisions that I will try to update my ownership experiences regularly on this thread. I promise to comment on the good, the bad, and the ugly as objectively as possible.The tractor was delivered in excellent condition by the owner of the dealership personally (nice touch). Tractor was clean, no rust, and a fresh coat of wax. Some scratches on the backhoe had been touched up with paint and looked great. I had received the operations run-through last week at the dealership, so I just gave the machine a once-over inspection. Everything was delivered correctly as ordered with the exception of a missing bucket level indicator. I found two minor initial quality defects. One was a missing label decal for the DSCV control lever lock. The other was that the dealership had mounted the optional rear worklights under the top of the FROPS instead of on the side. This is a better position during operation, but when I fold the ROPS with the backhoe installed, the lights will come to rest on the backhoe control lever guard. I will adjust the lights mounting to fix this. This tractor has the new front axle design: the front tires do NOT scuff in 2WD, even at full lock, forward or reverse. I was operating on moist clay soil so anything would have shown up. In 4WD I could get some slippage at sharp turning angles, but I fully expect this on wet clay. The hydrostatic drive pedals had been set by the dealership to the "lesser spring tension" setting at my request, and the pedal pressure and return seemed excellent.Overall Grade on tractor appearance and initial quality: AOverall Grade on dealer prep and delivery: B+ (Would have been A+ except for forgotten bucket level indicator and worklight position).Best surprise: The removeable toothbar looks awesome! Now to see how it works.

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MJB
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2000-04-27          15138

Congratulations on your purchase. I am planning to buy the exact same setup with the addition of a 60 inch belly mounted finish mower. I think this board is great. This kind of info is worth its weight in gold to me because sometimes it is hard to sift through the sales pitch and get the real facts from the dealer. I am really interested in how the 48 backhoe works for you. I saw somewhere that the reach of the hoe is about 11 feet from the pivot point and I was wondering how far the stabilizer feet stick out to the side of the machine while in use. The reason I ask is that I have about 800 feet of 6 foot wide drainage ditch to keep clear and was wondering if the 48 backhoe had enough length to reach all the way across the ditch with the tractor parked parallel to the bank. Also I would like your impression of the digging capabilities of the hoe. My land is all hard clay and sand but luckily no rocks that I have ever seen. Do you think the hoe could handle the 2 foot bucket in these conditions? I think that the standard bucket on this hoe is 12 inches wide. Also, if you dont mind me asking, what kind of deal did you get on your machine? Any help is greatly appreciated. ....

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JeffM
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2000-04-27          15141

Mike, I also have a standing order on the 60" belly mower, but I don't need it until next year so I'm not taking of delivery of it until then. Talk about identical configurations! The spec on the 48 backhoe reach is 11'1" from pivot point, total stabilizer spread when down is about 99" if level, and tractor width with turfs in narrow setting is 61". So, assuming your bank is firm enough for the stabilizer, then you would have about 7' of reach past the stabilizers at 90 degrees. ....

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MJB
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2000-04-27          15142

Thanks for the info. I see you got the turf tires on yours. Do the turf tires squat with all the weight on them? I was planning on getting the R4s in order to handle the weight of the loader and hoe. I expect I will have to be carefull about turning when mowing the lawn howerver. Has anyone out there mowed with a JD4400 with the new front axle and R4s? Thanks MJB ....

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JeffM
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2000-04-27          15143

Mike, I also have a standing order on the 60" belly mower, but I won't take delivery on it until next year when I need it. The total stabilizer spread on the 48 backhoe is about 8'3" on the level. So assuming your bank is firm enough for the stabilizer, you would have about 7' of reach past the stabilizer when the boom is at 90 degrees. But be forewarned: at that degree of boom rotation the bucket can physically contact the stabilizer if you are not careful! I can't comment on backhoe performance yet, but I went with the 18" bucket and my land is moderate to heavy clay with many embedded glacial rocks. This is tough digging! When our house foundation was dug in this stuff a basketball-sized rock would lift the tail of the full-sized Caterpillar 315 excavator being used.
The 12" bucket was just too small for me. If you are just clearing sediment out of the ditch you probably would want the 24" or maybe even the 36" bucket! Optimal would be both the 18" and the 36" buckets (sound like a salesman, don't I?). I'll let you know more about performance after I get to play with the backhoe more. As far as price: I bought a 4400 HST 4WD with mid-PTO, DSCV, FROPS, power beyond hydraulic outlet for backhoe, 3rd SCV for aux hydraulics for mower mid-mount lift cylinder, turf tires, engine block heater, rear work lights, 430 loader, grill guard, 3-pt hitch ballast box, bucket level indicator, 61" heavy duty bucket with 3 welded chain hooks added, removable tooth bar with replaceable teeth, 48 backhoe with 18' bucket. Without the aftermarket toothbar, I got prices (without tax) that ranged from about $26,000 to over $29,000. Toothbar runs about $400 additional. Remember, lowest price is not always the best, make sure the dealer is good. ....

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JeffM
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2000-04-27          15144

Sorry, Mike, I couldn't see my first response so I assumed it failed. Turf vs R4 was my toughest decision; I still don't know if I made the best one for my needs. My only real concern is vulnerability of the turf tires (especially the fronts) when working in the woods or in any kind of stubble. Traction is not a big concern: I'll just pick up a $125 set of rear chains from tirechains.com if I find I need more traction in snow or mud. From experience I don't think that R4's are that great for traction anyhow, but they are tough. The tires are not squatting right now, but I haven't loaded up that front bucket with stone yet either. I'll probably end up wishing I had gone with the R4's. ....

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Chris in IN
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2000-04-27          15167

Jeff glad to hear you got your tractor. Would also like to hear about how the 48 hoe works. I do have one on order with 12" & 18" buckets.

MJB I have R4's on my 4400, although I do not have a finish mower. I have driven it in yards many times with out any problems since getting the new axle. If the ground is wet they will leave impressions, but these go away after it rains. I just tilled our garden last night and made u turns to lock in the grass with out any scuffing at all.

I think the tilling convinced my wife the value of the tractor. Every year I would spend 4 to 5 hours with our 8hp Troy Bilt tiller working the clay dirt in the garden. It took 45 minutes with the tractor & 56" King Kutter II tiller and it worked up the best ever. Chris

....

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George
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2000-04-28          15198

Congradulations:

I am Finalizing the purchase of a 4400 with a 430 loader on monday. I was wondering if you might have any last minute suggestions?

I will be working a rather large hill on the water and am concerned about the stability of this tractor due to its narrow stance.

For those interested the lowest quote with HST 430 loader and turf tires was $ 19350.00 I think i will add weights or soloution to the tires and change them to the industrial type though.

George.... ....

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Mike S.
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2000-04-28          15199

George--the heavy duty bucket for the 430 loader is worth the extra hundred dollars. Regarding your concern about the narrow stance--the turf tires can be reversed to give a wider stance whereas the R-4's can be reversed but will not appreciably increase the stance. This is not a recommendation for either tire type. I have R-4's and like them for some things (loader work), but find them very rough riding for mowing--even after deflating them to half air pressure. Good luck to you. Mike S. ....

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Jack in IL
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2000-04-28          15200

No matter whether you get liquid ballast in the rear tires, cast rear wheel weights, or both, you need at least 750 pounds of weight on the 3 point hitch to properly balance the tractor for use with the loader. This is important. ....

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Jack in IL
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2000-04-28          15201

No matter whether you get liquid ballast in the rear tires, cast rear wheel weights, or both, you need at least 750 pounds of weight on the 3 point hitch to properly balance the tractor for use with the loader. This is important. ....

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Jack in IL
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2000-04-28          15202

No matter whether you get liquid ballast in the rear tires, cast rear wheel weights, or both, you need at least 750 pounds of weight on the 3 point hitch to properly balance the tractor for use with the loader. This is important. ....

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Jack in IL
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2000-04-28          15203

No matter whether you have cast rear wheel weights or liquid ballast in rear tires or both, you still neet at least 750 pounds on the 3 point hitch for proper balance of the tractor with a loader. This is important. ....

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JeffM
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2000-04-29          15209

George, definitely go for the heavy-duty bucket. It is well worth a couple extra dollars because this tractor is fully capable of damaging the lighter bucket in rocks, etc. If you are just moving sawdust, manure, snow, or sand I wouldn't worry about it. Have the dealer throw in a bucket level indicator (about $40 option) and also a ballast box if you don't have any heavy rear implement that you would keep on with the loader. ....

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George
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2000-04-29          15214

Thanks for the info.

I took a good look at the frontend today, I see that it has a single cylinder with one end stationary and the other attached to the tie-rod which is behind the axle. Can I assume that this is the (no scuff) design?

I will be moving large rocks so the HD bucket sounds like a good idea. Also i assumed the indicator was standard, Thanks for the tip! The weight sounds like a good excuse for the box blade :)

George.... ....

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JeffM
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2000-04-30          15236

George, yes, you described the new "no scuff" front axle design. ....

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Ken
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2000-05-03          15408

George if its not to late--- check on the larger tires (7x16 frt. & 12.4x24 rear ag tires) its as wide as you can go and with the hill you mentioned you won't be sorry.They are bigger and wider and alot more stable.I use them and don't have any problems except in real wet ground they will make tracks but will go away in no time.ken ....

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George
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2000-05-04          15424

Bad News!

That 4400 turned into a 4600 and is delivering today. All this started because of a lever that didn't do anything om my 445. I really need to stay away from that place.

Thanks for the advice, Wider is better in this case and i liked the reversable rims. We are still a few hundred apart on the deal but it should wash out today.

George....
....

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JeffM
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2000-05-22          16525

Update to the 4400 Owner's Journal! I haven't gotten much seat time in the past three weeks because of travel conflicts and bad weather in the NorthEast, but I finally go to spend some time with the loader this past weekend. The job was to "pick" some boulders/large rocks from the side of a recently reconstructed dirt road and bring them back to my lot for use in a future retaining wall. These rocks were all in the 200-600 pound range by my estimate (meaning I couldn't budge a single one of them alone by hand, but thought that 2 men would have been able to wrestle the smaller guys, but not lift them). Turns out that this is one of those jobs that the tooth bar is made for. I was able to get the teeth under the rocks, even on flat ground, and then "tickle" them into the bucket without a lot of trouble. This is real frustrating to try without a tooth bar because you just end up pushing the rock around for the most part. The 430 loader worked really well for this job, but I was glad I had the 48 backhoe mounted for rear ballast. I can't imagine tackling those size rocks without serious weight in the rear. The front turf tires did flatten out some under the heavier loads - more than I wanted to see. I'll check the pressure next time to verify that I'm up at the max. The hydrostatic drive has worked real well on this tractor with a good amount of pedal pressure/feedback. I did use the cruise control on long stretches of road to alleviate leg fatigue. I was climbing a pretty steep grade on the dirt road and couldn't do it in "C" range or road gear. On the other hand, I wouldn't have been able to do it on a gear tractor in high gear either. I have to remember that I had a loader and a backhoe sitting on tractor at the time also. Overall grade on tractor/loader for big rock picking: A. ....

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JeffM
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2000-06-05          16913

Got to use the 48 backhoe on my 4400 quite a bit last weekend and I'll share my experiences. (PS: Chris, I see that on another thread that you got your 48 backhoe, please add your experience to this thread also.) First off: the 48 backhoe is very impressive! My most recent backhoe experiences were with a Kubota B20 and a Taguchi mini-excavator, but the 4400/48 backhoe combination is in a league above those machines. I spent 4 hours or so digging rocks out of some trails and an old pasture that is slowly being converted to a "lawn". These rocks ranged from "breadbox" sized to "6500 watt generator" sized and the soil is mostly clay. The 48 backhoe with 18" bucket handled these pretty easily. I found that the servo controls were good, not great, but smooth enough at low rpm and slight motions. The hoe certainly has plenty of digging force. Next time out I will be tackling some fresh tree stumps... then I will really know how good this backhoe is! I also used the loader bucket with toothbar to clear some brush and dead limbs from along a stone wall fence. The toothbar works great in this application too, although I would really love to get hold of a brush-brute for removing the 1-2" saplings and juniper bushes. Other interesting learning: the fuel gauge on my 4400 was showing about 1/4 tank when I ran out of fuel. Bone dry. Obviously the fuel guage doesn't work right even though it registered properly when I added 5 gallons of fuel. However, the self-bleeding fuel system on the 4400 Yanmar engine worked as advertised! It took about 30 seconds of cranking (I only cranked it 10 seconds at a time, then let the starter cool) and the engine fired back up. This is a very nice feature, as anyone who has ever gone through the messy pain-in-the-rear job of priming a diesel fuel system will attest.
Backhoe gets a grade of A. Tractor features and function so far: A. Tractor initial quality so far: B-. ....

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Chris in IN
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2000-06-05          16933

Jeff I got my tractor back Saturday morning while I was out on a job. Late Saturday afternoon I got to use it for about 2 hours to start digging out tree stumps. The small stumps 3" to 8" could be pulled with out any problem. I had one old 18" stump & one 15" fresh stump that took a lot of digging to cut all the roots. After I was able to break them loose I did not have any troble lifting them out of the hole & moving the to the burn pile. This is the first time I ever used a backhoe and it takes some time to coordinate all the moves. I kept lifting the back of the tractor off the ground and dragging it towards the hole. We had Gradution parties yesterday & it rained today so I have not gotten to use it again. It has plenty of power & I can now see all kinds of jobs I can use it for. Chris ....

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Dan McCarty
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2000-06-13          17163


I'm looking to get a tractor with a back hoe to remove tree stumps. How
long did it take to dig up one stump? I have about 10 acres of stumps to clear
and I'm wondering if the JD backhoes on a 4300-4500 tractor will do the job.

....

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Chris in IN
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2000-06-14          17197

Dan it depends on how big the stumps are & what kind of tree the are. The small stumps took a couple minutes. The larger ones took 15 to 20 minutes. The long time on the larger stumps was partly because they were next to a fence so I could only dig on 3 sides of the stumps. The 48 backhoe has plenty of power on the 4400 tractor. Chris ....

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Mike S.
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2000-06-14          17199

Chris--can the 48 hoe actually break 4 to 6 inch diameter roots that spread out from the stump in all directions just below the surface of the ground??? Mike S. ....

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Dan McCarty
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2000-06-15          17218


I just had some land cleared for a house site and for a future pastures/open areas. I have tree stumps from 3 inches in diameters to over 36 inches. I'm either going to buy Grandpa's old MF 165 tractor and mount a Woods 7500/9000
back hoe or go Green with a 4400/4500 and matching back hoe. Woods said the 9000 will work on the MF 165 as well as pull the stumps. I would think the Woods BH will work since that 9000 BH has got some muscle!

I know someone who has a stump grinder and charges $1 per inch on the stump diameter. Since many of the stumps are pine and fairly dense per acre I think
I'm going to have to do it myself or take on another job.

Is figuring 20-30 minutes per 30+ inch stump a good guess?

Thanks!
Dan ....

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By the Brook Farm
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2000-06-15          17219

I've dug quite a few stumps with my JD4600 w/48 hoe and it will struggle on a four inch or larger root. Note I said root, not stump. I can pull a eight inch pine stump as fast as I can drive over to it. An oak tree up to about six or seven inches I just push over and then using the loader dig and drag the whole tree, the whole process takes about ten minutes. A maple tree is the worst, the roots run everywhere and even a six inch stump will take a while. I've taken 30 inch stumps but it takes a long time. There is no way I would use my setup to clear ten acres..it would take about five years. A yellow excavator can do in a day what it takes me a month to do. ....

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