Go BottomAgracat 254 runs hot
 | yofrient
Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 19 AR US 
|
2007-07-02 143363
My Agracat 254 runs really hot. The temp guage usually pegs out after 20 minutes of mowing. And I'm adding a half gallon of 50/50 coolant before each mowing.
I'm using a Spider 6ft finish mower. When mowing, if I let the RPM go down (like when I get off the tractor to move something) , I get coolant spewing from the overflow hole under the radiator cap. I usually run my mower on the slower RPM in Low 3rd gear. Is this the right gear for mowing or should I be running in something else. I was thinking I might be operating in the wrong gear and causing the heat. Anything less would be too slow and faster would be too fast.
What is an acceptable operating temperature.
I've seen somewhere where the type of oil may make the tractor run hotter.
Anyone
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan 
 Pics
|
2007-07-02 143366
You didn't say how tall the grass was, but if it has gone to seed the radiator fins may be plugged. A good pressure washing will do it good.
The radiator may plugged internally with calcium. There might be a way chemically to clean it (automotive-type radiator flush). You have to have a new core put in---I have had vehicles where this was the only problem.
When I run my 33hp hydrostatic New Holland I run it full throttle just as the mfg. recommends for any and all work. Exception when brushhogging and there is a chance of hitting rocks or stumps. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
Pics
|
2007-07-02 143371
Just wondering, does it only run hot with the mower? If so check the mower to be sure all blades turn freely and the blades are sharp. A clogged air filter can cause it to run hot, as EW pointed out so can a clogged radiator either internally or external and you could be mower too low over loading the cutter and thus the tractor. You need to run the tractor at what ever speed is necessary to get the mower at the RPM it is rated for such as 540. Then use the trans to get the ground speed. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| yofrient
Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 19 AR US
|
2007-07-02 143372
Thanks for the answers fellas!
Just raised the mower deck up one notch 2 weeks ago and that didn't help. Checked the radiator fins and screen and they looked fine. Air filter may need to be checked but it was replaced when I bought the tractor 4 months ago so I doubt that's it. Running mower at 540 RPM Low 3rd gear. My primary use is mowing but I did run without the mower while doing dirt work a month ago and it did get hot. I'm putting new antifreeze in the radiator every 2 uses (no overflow/boilover resivour) and have not noticed any rust or sediment. I know it's circulating because its boiling. If it was just sitting in the radiator due to clog, I wouldn't imagine it would get hot.
Thanks again! ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
|
2007-07-02 143378
Thermostat? ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
Pics
|
2007-07-02 143381
Yofrient,
You wrote something that sounds alarm bells with me.
Earlier, you wrote something about using your tractor's engine RPM to help you control your ground speed. One gear is too fast, and the next lower gear is too slow.....so you adjust your engine RPM in order to get a ground speed that you are happy with.
Generally speaking, using your tractor's engine RPM to control your ground speed is a very bad idea. In fact, you should never do this when using any implement. By lowering your tractor's engine RPM, you could find yourself in a situation in which you begin to lug the engine. Lugging down your engine will create a tremendous amount of heat. Even if your cooling system is working properly, there is nothing that can be done to help the situation, except to increase your engine RPM and then choose a lower gear -- raise your implement slightly -- or both.
Please try running your tractor in a lower gear, using full engine RPM. If this doesn't help solve the problem, try raising your implements a bit.
Joel
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
Pics
|
2007-07-02 143382
You can have a certain amount of "circulation" without heat exchange. Calcification effectively insulates the radiator tubes from the coolant and so it will not cool. If you keep this up you could blow a head gasket or worse, warp a head, and or lock up the motor.
I'd be tempted to temporarily hang a pop bottle somehwere near the engine and run an overflow hose to it and see if you get anything in there. Be sure to run the hose to the bottom so that when it cools it will be siphoned back into the radiator. If you do this and don't get any overflow, that steam is going somewhere---like through a blown head gasket or cracked head.
But I'm jis' sayin'. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
Pics
|
2007-07-03 143392
I have seen clogged (internally) radiator boiling over. It was cool to touch. It would cost you little to try flushing the radiator. However, if it is really clogged, doubt you would be able to buy chemical that will open it. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| yofrient
Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 19 AR US
|
2007-07-03 143401
I'm sorry but I may have been misunderstood: When I said slower RPM, I was referring to the PTO RPM lever being on the 540 RPM setting for the mower. I'm not using engine RPM to adjust speed (not lugging). I set the tractor to Low 3rd gear and run the tractor at a constant RPM with the mower deck running on 540 RPM. With no Tach, I usually use full throttle as I assume that's how it is tractors and machines. I'm basically running everything the way the guy that sold it to me said, it just gets really hot really fast. I have an aftermarked overflow container on my 71 Bronco so I'll just take it off of that and put it on my tractor.
I suggested flushing and filling when I got it but the guy I bought it from said it didn't need it and I just went with that.
Again, thanks for the attention from you guys. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
Pics
|
2007-07-03 143416
So did it run hot with him? Wonder why he said it did not need it? Wonder if he had suspecting the radiator was at least partly clogged and tried it, but had not worked for him? Let us know what you find. Have a great Independance Day ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
Pics
|
2007-07-04 143431
Kenny your new moniker is now "wonder" boy :)
I wonder, I wonder, I wonder... hahahaha ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
Pics
|
2007-07-04 143434
I just looked at this thread for the first time, the big thing that jumped out at me was several statements such as "And I'm adding a half gallon of 50/50 coolant before each mowing." and "When mowing, if I let the RPM go down (like when I get off the tractor to move something) , I get coolant spewing from the overflow hole under the radiator cap.".
That to me says to look at a bad head gasket or cracked head itself. If the overflow was blowing a half a gallon of coolant it would be a major stream of coolant out that little hose. You would definitely know it. Besides, I couldn't see you boiling it over enough to ever spit out a half a gallon, the first boil over would reduce the volume enough to prevent any further occurances. I think the liquid is going somewhere else.
If the machine has a problem like that, at high revs it will be sucking coolant when the liquid is pressurized by heat, and the engine is on the intake stroke, and at idle it will be blowing bubbles into the system, making it blow past the cap. Also, the rad cap is designed to allow excess pressure to escape, but not vacuum, and water under vacuum boils at a LOWER point than it does under pressure.
I would be looking at pressure testing the cooling system over a longer period of time, overnight at least and see if the system is leaking down. I would also be doing a compression test on the engine to see if one cylinder has a problem.
Best of luck. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
 | greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
Pics
|
2007-07-06 143481
AgraCats are rebadged Jinmas, and both JM254s I had would collect seed/chaff/dust in the lower 1/3 of the radiator fins. The battery is in the way, so you can see this without removing the radiator. That's the best way to clean them anyway - out of the tractor. Compressed air is best - blowing from the back side. Power washers can inflict permanent damage to the fins.
In addition to the battery blockage, that air cleaner housing is in a bad place too. The suction from the intake creates a vortex that the little pull fan behind the radiator can't overcome. I used a three foot section of 2" suction hose to remote the fresh air intake. Once the intake got plenty of cool air from alongside the fuel tank, things started cooling down nicely. So cool in fact that I moved the intake hose to the exhaust side of the engine for winter use.
The radiator cap sucks too, but make sure to replace it with a 7PSI or less (OE is only 3-4 PSI). If you put a standard 15psi cap on there, the radiator seams and hose ends will start weeping. The engine blocks are usually filthy, so a commercial cleaner can't hurt. And if you replace the thermostat, make sure it's for the 80C operating range. That's about 176F if you find an American one that fits.
//greg// ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| yofrient
Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 19 AR US
|
2007-07-09 143539
HEY!!! Good reason to buy an air compressor: Pressure testing and radiator fin cleaning. Wife knows the frustration I've been having with this tractor and will probably give me a green light to go Lowes shopping and get whatever makes me feel better. May pick up a grinder to sharpen blades while I'm comfort shopping.
Now I have a sheared bolt that holds the alternator to the engine block and no one in my little town carries metric. I'm trying to take care of this rig but it seems I'm adding fluids or replacing parts every weekend and it's getting a little frustrating.
Does anyone have an american part number for a 176* thermostat for my 254. I replaced mine on my Bronco, does that qualify me to do the job on my tractor? ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
Pics
|
2007-07-09 143541
Yofrient,
No need to go out and buy a new air compressor. Just about any dentist in your area will have a used air compressor sitting in the basement, crawl space, or their home garage. You can pick one up from almost any dentist for almost nothing. Every dental office uses compressed air for their dental drills.
These little dental compressors aren't suitable for use with heavy duty air tools, (not enough cubic feet per minute, and not enough air pressure) but they work just fine for inflating tires and blowing out your radiator, air filters, etc.
If you replaced the thermostat on your Bronco, then you can easily replace one on your tractor. It's not a difficult job. The hardest part about this is to make sure your cooling system is full and circulating. It can sometimes be a chore to get rid of all the air trapped in the system.
I can't help you with a part number for a U.S. compatible thermostat, but if you take it to your local auto parts dealer, they can usually measure the diameter and find you a suitable replacement. The most important thing is to find one with the same temperature rating. You shouldn't have a difficult time finding one. A replacement thermostat gasket might be a bigger problem for you. Save your old one. Take good care not to damage it when you remove it. It is possible to make a new gasket from scratch, provided you have a pattern to go by, and a good, sharp, utility knife. Bulk gasket material is also available at your local auto parts dealer.
Avoid using silicone or RTV sealants, as these can end up in your cooling system, plugging your radiator, or your thermostat.
Joel ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| MikeSMikeS
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4 New Jersey
|
2007-07-13 143670
Have you tried running with the hood proped open a few inches? Hot air from the engine side of the radiator can be drawn between the hood and top of the radiator. Radiator thinks it's 130'F all the time. If, so block the gap with foam rubber seal from Home-D, and use a filter infront of the radiator to help keep it clean. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
Pics
|
2007-07-13 143671
Sorry, can't agree with that suggestion. "Running with the hood open" disrupts airflow through the radiator even more. Plus, 130F is too cold for this type of diesel to run. They're designed to operate most efficiently at 80C (~176F). I recommend the OP disregard that recommendation
//greg// ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| MikeSMikeS
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4 New Jersey
|
2007-07-16 143751
It looks like I didn't make myself clear enough. Proping the hood open will allow air from outside the cowl to help cool the radiator vs. air from the engine side of the radiator that's HOT from being drawn into the radiator through the gap between the hood and radiator top. Proping the hood open is just a TEST to see if a cool sourse of air will will fix the problem. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
Pics
|
2007-07-16 143757
I addressed that already Mike; see my post 143481 above where I described remoting the fresh air intake with a section of vacuum hose.
Another reason for not leaving the hood partially open - even for a TEST - is paint and fiberglass damage from vibration. Been there - done that - just ain't got the Tshirt to prove it.
//greg// ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| yofrient
Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 19 AR US
|
2007-07-17 143790
LET THIS BE A LESSON TO YOU ALL (greg_g/earthwrks). No matter how minor the suggestion might seem when being made, they still make a big difference to those of us who don't know better or just weren't thinking about it. Washing out the radiator fins did the job. So simple I'm embarrased to admit it. When I turned the garden hose on from the back side, something that looked like pond scum washed out the other side. The previous owner used tractor primarily to load sand into a sand blaster at a machine shop. What I saw was a mixture of boiled over coolant, sand, dust and grass washing out. After I did that, the machine ran cool for the entire time I used it to mow my 5 acres and not once ounce of boilover. In addition, I also re routed the air intake (also suggested by greg g) with a bit of intake hose and I'm sure this contributed as well. I also took some engine cleaner and cleaned off the layer of crud (dirt and oil) off as much of the engine as I could so the heat could dissapate a little better.
Now, I'm obsessed about cleaning the radiator and want to pull it out and give it a good washing/air cleaning. It's hard to reach all the corners while in the tractor and I noticed 2 bolts at the bottom holding it to the frame. If I remove the nuts, remove the fan shroud and unclamp the hoses (after draining) will it just pull out or is there something hidden elsewhere holding it in?
BTW. Any time my wife gives me the green light to purchase new tools, I'm going for it and will just "forget" to mention that the problem the new tool was supposed to fix was already fixed with the water hose. As far as tool buying, what she doesn't know wont hurt anything.
Thank you friends! ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
Pics
|
2007-07-17 143793
Yofrient,
I'm happy to hear that the problem has been corrected. Thanks for stopping in to let us know what happened.
If I may suggest something in the tool department......
Your first tool should be similar to Cummins Tool Part Number 1158. 24 inch air wand with rubber tip and hand trigger. Price = $5.00
Cummins Tools aren't the best in the world.....to say the least. There are other companies who make better stuff, but I've used my Cummins Air Wand over and over again on my tractor's radiator. I will never be without one.
If you need an air compressor to go with it......you might need to spend a few more bucks. hehehe.
Glad we were able to help.
Cummins Tools -- See Link Below
Joel ....
Link: Cummins Tools
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
Pics
|
2007-07-18 143810
Joel brings up a very good point, and Yofrient's comment about not being able reach everything brought to mind a simple (sort of homemade) tool we use extesively for this on a daily basis with our equipment.
Most air guns, even the cheapies, have a screw in tip on the business end. We found that by taking a piece of steel brake line the right size, cutting it to about 24", then using a tubing bender to put a gentle 90° bend in the last couple of inches it makes a great tool for cleaning radiators.
You can buy the longer wands like Joel points out, but most of them are rather flimsy, (the extension is usually thin aluminum and doesn't stand up to much rough handling) and the end is only turned 45° so it doesn't clean as well since it's not blowing straight through the fins.
I strongly recommend this type of tool as a 'must have' for anybody with an air compressor.
If you want to get really fancy you can add a "y" fitting in the middle and run a tube to a pail full of water and it will act like small pressure washer.
Best of luck. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoAgracat 254 runs hot
| MikeSMikeS
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4 New Jersey
|
2007-07-18 143825
Ok, now that you know what the problem was, do take the time to install an AIR FILTER before the radiator. If not you'll be pulling the radiator often to clean it. Some use A/C filters. What ever you settel on, it's lots easer to clean a filter than pull the radiator. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add Photo
Go Top
Share This