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VW Lug Bolt Broken

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2004-03-02          78475

OK, I know alot of you have experience in this area, and I need some input...I broke an aftermarket lug bolt putting on my "summer" tires and wheels on my Jetta TDI...There is nothing left to grab, yet the "flare" on the bolt is still holding the wheel on. I want to remove this bolt in case of a flat, or when I finally get around to the rear brake job that I need. Someone suggested having someone weld something on it so it could be turned, but I think it would be difficult to get that far in the "hole of the wheel" to weld something...any suggestions?

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-03-02          78478

About the only thing that comes to my mind is to thoroughly soak the piece in a very good penetrating oil such as Kroil and try to drill out the bolt to the largest size hole possible and hope that an EZ-out is strong enough to remove the broken piece if I am understanding your description of the problem. I am not exactly sure how the rear axle and brakes are set up on Jetta otherwise I might be able to offer different solution. I take it you may have already considered using an EZ-out. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-02          78494

I agree with Chief. Kroil works well.

Drilling will help and the EZout is probably the way to go. I like the EZ out style that has straight teeth that you drive into the hole. Some of these look like square punches and some look like straight knurled hardened shafts that drive into the hole and form teeth at the same time. In addition, I might recommend using a countersinking cutter to countersink into the hole on the wheel and it will cut out the remainin part of the flare and leave the countersunk hole in the wheel/rim. (Countersinks are available in a variety of sizes and angles, so you should match to your situation.) It is important to get the hole right down the center of the wheel bolt remnant.

If you can do it, you will probably find that this process is easier with the wheel and hub/(disk/drum) removed from the axle together. I would also make use of heat through the drilled hole if the hub was removed from the axle.

The bolt is probably corroded in place and the Kroil or other penetrating oil will help break up the rust. The heat from a torch will cause differential expansion of the metal and tend to break these bonds also. If it is cross threaded or otherwise bound in position, it will be a more difficult removal task. ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-03-02          78517

Blueman: If you use the largest LEFT-handed drill bit you can get in there you may not need to do all the swearing at the broken hardened EZ-out. Had the same problem on my 86 Jetta when I first got it.

Cheif: VW uses lug BOLTS rather than nuts.

AC5ZO: If you are creative with the drill size an impact style "Torx" bit will do what you suggest also. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-02          78521

I have never tried the Torx, but it is a good idea. The ones that I have use a straight knurl with about 12 to 15 points.

....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-02          78523

The suggestions above are all good. I've found that when bolts or nuts are REAL tight it always helps to vibrate the area with an air chisel and blunt bit while simultaneously breaking it loose. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-02          78540

I think I'd tried every type of EZ out known to man along with every cuss word in the dictonary till a seasoned mechanic friend of mine told me to get a set of left hand drill bits. Usually by the time you've worked your way up to the biggest bit that won't destroy the threads in the casting the hollow shell of the bolt threads conmes out with the drill bit. Hope this helps. ....

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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
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2004-03-02          78544

I would try the welding idea. But then I hate to drill and love to weld.
Bill ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-02          78546

I would agree with Hardwood. I think I would punch the center , take a small drill and make a pilot hole. Then take a large drill near the size of the bolt and take the flange off. Once the wheel is off then you can remove the disk and drill out the bolt properly. ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2004-03-03          78578

Thanks for all the input...I knew you guys would come through...a friend of mine told me last night he lent his left handed drill bits to someone, and he thinks he can get the bolt out easily, once he gets his drill bits back! As a sidenote...a local tire dealer (NTB) wanted $200 to get the wheel off...uh, no thanks!! ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-03          78579

I wonder if a flat headed cutter of some sort might cut the bolt flare enough to get the wheel off? I don't know if these lugs are threaded or pressed into an axle flange. If they're threaded I wonder about the strength of the remaining threads even if the broken bolt can be removed and the threads salvaged. I have salvaged a few over the years by drilling out them to thin walls. More often I ended up messing up the threads. It's a little tough to keep a hand drill going straight. Most times I've ended up putting in over-sized stuff but I'm not sure if an 'over-sized' idea would be appropriate for wheels. There are various adapters, heli-coils etc.

Easy outs have seldom been my friends and penetrating oil hasn't been much friendlier. On the other hand, if it can be heated, a torch has been a friend in difficult times. Issues of temper and nearby flammables aside, get something hot enough and it almost certainly will unscrew. I'd still wonder about the integrity of remaining threads though. I haven't had impact tools when I've had these problems and I'd sure try some of the ideas mentioned. ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2004-03-03          78581

Just so all of you can see what these lug bolts look like, search a large internet auction site for "VW tuner lug", take a look at a pic.
....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2004-03-03          78582

Once again, thanks for the help...AV8R, I was looking at your profile, I LOVE the #1 pic!!! (B*%$#H) I also broke the fuel door on my TDI...another VW nuisance, but I would buy another in a heartbeat! ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-03-03          78664

Ah, yes. The Million Dollar plastic fuel door! Broke the one on the 86 too, found a replacement in the bone yard for $1 though.

Just be careful using any heat near an alloy wheel, don't want to hear the "klink" of it cracking! ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-03          78667

I can not believe that Tom has never removed a wheel from a VW. Although I admit I was straining the old grey matter to recall.
I am also considering a TDI. Too a beetle for a spin the other day (2001 TDI 4sp.). I was impressed with the power of the little diesel. What is the economy like on your units? ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-04          78734

Peters: Yes I was just groping through general how to take apart corroded parts ideas. Strangely enough I've never owned a regular car. My wife's car is as close as I get. I spent most of the 'love your bug' thing in the Air Force and bugs weren't real popular among us grunts.

I've only known two people that had beater bugs and those were such beaters we always took somebody else's car. Once when we didn't the thing blew an engine main seal when we were broke and out of the base mileage limit. The dang thing got better gas than oil mileage. Had to stop and beg engine oil from farmers along the way. Oh man, some trip. It would keep highway speed and was blowing an oil cloud out the back. People were passing us with their window washers going full bore and shaking their fists at us. We figured if the police happened along they'd pull us off the road and then we'd have a real problem.

I've never put a wrench to one and heck, I could probably count the times I've ridden in one old or new on my hands. The one with the blown seal was simply traded for a Dodge in worse shape. Boy us grunts really know how to live. ....

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Blueman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 243 Washington, PA
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2004-03-04          78748

Peters, I get 45-50 MPG, if I can keep my foot out of it (it's difficult to keep my TFI under 65MPH!) The MPG has dropped this winter to around 40, with snow tires all around. Still not too bad, although I am paying premium gas prices for road diesel. ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-03-04          78804

My 86 Jetta is a non-turbo, indirect-injected, 1.6L diesel and is usually good for 40mpg in winter and 45 in summer depending on fuel quality. The wife's 2001 Jetta TDI will range from 45 to 55mpg also depending on fuel quality.

The TDI is a great motor, plenty of power and superb fuel economy. No problems in traffic unlike the 86, which at 42hp is a bit of a dog. We have the 5-speed with the TDI and would recomend that over the automatic just from my own personal experience of having driven both.

The new Beetle and Golf will get 2-5mpg better MPG because of better aero and weight than the Jetta.

BTW blended winter diesel is still cheaper than regular gas here, for now at least! ....

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