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 | DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ 
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2004-03-01 78371
I have a Labrador Retriever (10 years old) who has had problems with his ears.
If I rub his left ear I can hear a squishy sound. Which in the past has indicated something is going on there. This is such a problem for him that we rarely let him go swiming because of the ear infection issue.
I have been to the vets many times on this. I cleaned his ears yesterday by putting the clening liguid in his ears and wiping the excess out with a cotton balls and swabs.
He had to be put under for something else a couple years ago, and they deep cleaned his ears then and that worked great.
Short of that has anyone got any experience with any ear cleaner that dries the ear up better, or a differnt technique?
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-01 78374
A woman on our breeder's mailing list had a bulldog with chronic ear problems and she said an ear rinse called "Epi-Otic" cleared it right up. We had a miniature poodle we used it on, too, and it seemed to work well. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-01 78376
My Chesapeake Bay Retriever used to get the same thing.
Luckily she would let me do nearly anything to her. I would fix it with a large eye dropper full of Hydrogen Peroxide, shoot it down her ear then wait a second and tip her head over. Just be sure to hold an old towel or something to her ear to catch it.
Best of luck. ....
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144 
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2004-03-01 78379
Hydrogen Peroxide generally does a good job. It works on people, too. It generates oxygen when it contacts wax and tissue products and I think that the gas generated will help break up any trapped fluid. It will also treat any infection sites. For dogs and humans, the ear is quite sensitive to temperature, so it is best to warm the H202 to lukewarm before squirting it in there. ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2004-03-01 78385
Well he has had his first dose of hydrogen Peroxide. His ear is slightly less squishy.
He did not mind it a bit.
What would be a reasonable repeat cycle?
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-01 78386
I have a friend & customer who is a vetrinarian by trade. He is the one who tipped me off to doing it.
When I asked him often I should do it, he said twice a day as required was fine for no more than a week straight, after that it may cause some irritation.
The key is to keep the solution in the ear for 30 seconds if possible.
Best of luck. ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2004-03-01 78389
Thanks Murf,
KoKo thanks you for this info! That seems to match the drill I have sued when I was using the stuff from the vet.
Thanks,
Dennis ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-01 78390
A word of caution here though.
If KoKo is a CHOCOLATE lab you will need to be carefull about getting the hydrogen peroxide on her fur.
Otherwise she will look like a photo negative of a Dalmation the next time she gets wet. Believe me.
Best of luck. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-01 78397
The 3% solution of medical hydrogen peroxide is not nearly as strong as the peroxide used to bleach hair and I have not known the 3% stuff to be a problem. I used to manufacture and bottle hydrogen peroxide for disinfecting contact lenses.
I believe that the hair type of peroxide runs up at about 15% concentration. In industrial plants I have used hydrogen peroxide up in the 35% range. Certainly the higher concentrations require considerable caution.
The main concern with the 3% normal medical H202 is to keep it out of the eyes. ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2004-03-01 78400
AC5ZO,
Thanks for the helpful information.
It does seem that KoKO is exhibiting some of the side effects that Murf mentioned nonetheless.
Please see Pix number 10 in my Album ;>(.
....
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 | k9fletch
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 52 Whittemore, MI 
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2004-03-01 78401
Dennis, owning a yellow lab and a german shepherd and training labs and shepherds I see a lot of ear problems. We use a comerical cleaner for the ears available through the vet. but if the pup didn't yelp you can continue to use peroxide, like Murf stated earlier no more than a week.
When you put in the drops (about 6-10) rub the area at the base of the ear, behind the jaw bone(you should feel a notch and hear the fluid squishing around as you rub) then let the dog shake out the fluid. This method should get the cleaner in to the "L" portion of the ear canal where most infections occure. To help the ear dry out try to keep the ears folded back(a near impossible task at times.)
Also remember that during the humid summer the dogs can get a lot of moisture in the ears, it becomes a weekly maintenance task. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-01 78406
I don't see what the problem is Dennis, "Spot" is a perfectly acceptable dog's name and she will learn to come to it in about a week..... ;-p
Michael, you are, of course, right about the 3% - 15% solutions, however even 3% solution that remains on the fur for a long time will do the same thing, just to a lesser degree.
Now the only problem I have is a Jack Russel Terrier who thinks he's part dolphin. If a toy of his makes it to the bottom of the pool or lake he goes straight down after it, he regularly goes down 4+', luckily the water comes right back out too because he wouldn't sit still for treatment, grooming maybe, but only with a good supply of his favourite nibbles at hand. Last year he became the life of a dinner party on our patio when a friend of my wife dunked her car keys in the pool by accident when she missed her husband's toss to her. While they were looking for the skimmer to retrievethem I merely whistled for the dog and pointed to the keys. By the time people had wiped the splashed water off them he was back with keys.
Best of luck. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-01 78410
Dennis, the spotting is worse than I imagined. ;-) ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-01 78412
Dennis, do they make that Grecian Formula stuff for dogs?
Murf, a friend of mine has a Jack Russell and it is a pretty comical pet. I am generally not much of a small dog fan, but when a dog has that much personality, it is hard not to like it.
I used to have to be a real safety stickler when we were using 35% hydrogen peroxide. My guys would wear their face masks and a chemical apron, but occasionally they would splash a bit on their leather shoes and the shoes would start smoking. You have to be pretty careful with stuff that releases pure oxygen when it decomposes. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-01 78415
Michael, JRT's are often referred to as "the biggest small dog you will ever find", other phrases include "Napoleon reincarnated" and "smarter and bolder than they are cute".
I had a 'problem' with the great-grandfather of the dog I have now. I was attending a horse show and another attendee was a wealthy Austrian lady who had a pair of Dobermans, brother & sister from the same litter, Venus & Zuess. They were incredibly well trained and obedient, but a little aggressive.
The problem, was that THEY were at HIS show grounds. I heard a commotion and turned to find my dog was missing, I went racing off to find him and just before I did I heard a loud yelping and much growling. I came around a corner just in time to see one Doberman leaving at a full on sprint and my dog was swinging from the neck of the other one. I say 'swinging' because even though he was 6" clear of the ground and hanging from the grip he had on it's neck he was still thrashing back & forth trying to shake it! All Terriers have a peculiar, very aggressive side-to-side shake that is often called the 'Terrier death shake' and is how they dispatch their prey when hunting. In hindsight it was pretty funny. At the time it wasn't.
I whistled and told him to "drop" and he opened his mouth and released the other dog whereupon it departed at full tilt yelping loudly. My dog swaggered away as if he had just defeated his mortal enemy.
I grew up with Boxers, they are almost as big a dog as JRT's think they are....
Best of luck. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-01 78417
We raised AKC registered German Shepards on the farm when I was growing up. In addition, we always had a couple of hunting dogs for the local quail and other game birds.
Now, I tend to like Border Collies and Australian Shepards. The only problem with them is that they tend to be smart and easily bored which can lead to some interesting situations. ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-03-01 78419
Murf, I know about the Terrier attitude. We were at my sister's cabin sitting on the deck and a 200-300 black bear wandered into the yard within 20 ft of us. My wife's West Highland Terrier took off after that bear without a thought. It was totally instinctive. But it was funny (after the fact) to see a little 14 lb white dog biting the heels of that black bear as it ran at top speed into the woods. When it was all over, there was my sister's Golden retriever shaking in fear in the corner. :-)
Dave ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-01 78420
Michael, I know all about dogs FINDING something interesting to do when they get bored...... and it's usually very funny, after you calm down and have a drink or two........ ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2004-03-01 78431
k9fletch,
Yes I usually rub that area but I think I need to work at it a little better. And I am going to try to get his ears flapped back to help it dry out. Those big floppy ears are on of his main problems in drying out.
We are trying one of my daughters elastic headbands to hold his ears back. We are up to ten minutes so far, I guess we will just have to see.
Dennis ....
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 | brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin 
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2004-03-03 78702
Dennis/ fletch
You hit it on the head. My ch. lab has had infections just about all her life, spent hundreds on vets. I learned a few things from the lattest vet we went to in a small town we have a second home in. 2 things that the vets down in the cities did not ever tell us. ( kinda makes you wonder) First of all, she said never swab it out, let the dog shake it around ( the ear wash ) She said swabbing it will spread the bad and do no good.
Here is the biggest one that NO VET has ever suggested (we have been ear infection free for 3 months now, a new record for us, and mind you my wife cleans my dogs ears twice a week for the past 11 or so years) The vet told us my dog may be allergic to beef and dairy products, shesaid it is pretty common and hardly ever diagnosed. Stay away from all eggs, cheese and BEEF. ALL!!! That means buying a dog food like IAMS chicken/rice or a lamb and rice meal.
watch the dog treats too for beef by products. I am so serious you would not believe!!! NO ear infections for 3 months now!!! It makes you wonder how the last 4 vets she was too missed something that a hick town vet hit on the head!!!! (By the way, I am moving to that hick town soon!!!) Its my kinda people LOL>
Good luck and giver a try? At worst your dog will lose a bit of weight with out all those extra little treats from the table, Mine did anyway> ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-04 78741
All three of my Shepherds were subject to ear infections and I applied the anti-biotic drops many times. The allergy idea may be important to follow up.
The female had chronic ear infections, sores and scratched areas in her early years. In dogs, allergies tend to result in skin inflammations that promote ear infections. Tests were done and it turned out she was massively allergic to meat--horse and rabbit were sort of OK but nothing else.
We got her by her first few years with desensitization treatments, an antihistamine (hydroxzine and nobody knows why it helps since dogs don't have histamine receptors) and a diet I had to cook. We tried various things like fish oils.
My now X used to carp severely 'You cook for the dog but won't fry an egg for me,' which wasn't true but maybe should have forecast an Xness, which became Xtiscee. The diet was creme of wheat, eggs, cottage cheese, brewers yeast and some mineral salts. That diet might not be appropriate for all dogs but it did work, and eventually she was able to tolerate commercial lamb/rice food. ....
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| Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 110 New England
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2004-03-04 78759
Dennis, we have standard poodles, and that breed always has ear problems like described. We Clean the ear as far down as possible with gauze soaked in hydrogen peroxide being careful to protect the dogs' eyes. Keep changing the gauze until it is fairly colorless. Then a small amount of Panalog antibiotic should be massaged into the ear canal. Keep the ears clean especially in hot humid weather, and the hair under the ear flap clipped short to allow air circulation. If your dog has a lot of ear hair, pluck it out before you clean. This is an issue you must stay on top of to prevent sytemic infection. ....
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| DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998 Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2004-03-04 78762
The treatments do not seem to be working, his ear seems squishier than when I started.
And his head feels a little hot to me.
I think he is off to the vet.
We put him on expensive supposedly non allergic feeds like sweet potato, lamb and rice, chicken and rice etc.. for a couple of years now and I don't see a difference for the ears.
Dennis
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| Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 110 New England
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2004-03-04 78777
Dennis,
The squish is definately not good. You are doing the right thing, it is vet time! You probably caught it in time, and all will get better. May require a drain tube. Good luck, I hate to see any dog (and their owner(s) suffer). ....
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| k9fletch
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 52 Whittemore, MI
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2004-03-04 78782
Dennis, sorry the ear cleaning isn't working out, my lab is in the water 3-4 times a week between April thru December and we havn't seen an infection in 5 years, but we do a lot of maintainence. Please keep us posted on what your vets come up with.
Brokenarrow, I completely agree with your vet statement. I grew up next door to the local farm vet, and still drive the hour+ to have the lab checked out by him and now by his daughter. With my shepherd I had to go to a "contracted" vet who i didn't see eye-to-eye with, It just seemed that he didn't have much common sense. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-05 78854
Dennis: I left vegetable oil out of my list of ingredients. It's been quite a few years. The diet was a last ditch effort because the dog couldn't go on in the state she was in. The diet was the result of a bunch of research by my vet who found the diet in literature for treating something entirely different. Some oils help but they also tend to produce ulcers.
It is a radical approach, which your dog probably doesn't need. It does illustrate that if the infections are related to an allergic condition then it's not going to get much better unless the allergies are managed. In cases where commercial hypo-allergenic foods don't work, a plan worked out by a good vet is needed.
I came to recognize the early signs of infections by noticing black deposits in the outer ear. Ear scratching and head tossing comes later and is a sure sign that treatment is needed. I'm not sure I noticed 'squishing' in the canals except from the antibiotic itself. Good luck with this. It took me a bunch of effort but she lived in reasonable confront for 14 years although suffering glaucoma and fancy surgery in her later years. She was worth all the effort. Dogs tend to be like that. Treat them with a measure of respect and you almost always get back more then you put in. Human society could take some lessons from them. ....
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| AlbionKen
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 23 Albion, PA and Geneva, OH
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2004-03-05 78856
I know I'm a bit tardy getting into the discussion, and the problem described sounds more serious than just what I call ear goop, but I have two Old English Sheepdogs, one of whom gets ear goop constantly. What I use is Zymox-Otic. The website is http://www.petkingbrands.com/zymox.html. It comes in a small bottle and I put some in each ear every few days when the goop shows up. It is an enzyme. I tried all of the other options described above and this is the only thing that has worked for us. Good luck. ....
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 | WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 543 New England 
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2004-03-07 79196
WOW!...Right when you think you've heard it all.
With the way ALOT of different Vets speak of what the causes are and what the cures will be, there should not be an animal suffering anywhere anymore.
Dennis, I have a nine year old Golden Retreiver with hair as opposed to fur. As one can imagine, the fur mats, it clumps and it falls out at different times of the year, not too mention taking a month of sundays to dry out once wet. With the hair, my dog can go swimming in freshwater - Her name is Chelsea and is a "darky" ,- come out and be dried off virtually from one good shake...but the ears! She has had, as well as our previous three Goldens, ear problems and "allergies". We did the lamb, we did the rice, we did the...everything, until we recognized two things very apparently. One, she was not getting any better, and two, she was eating better than we were!
We finally ended up with the "tri-otic" fluid from the Vet. This actually seems to offer the best results yet, and affords old Chelsea...RELIEF! Every now and then , such as her annuals, the vet may decide to "irrigate" her ears, but by comparison to years ago, she is back on regular dog dry food, (other than sunday morning when she gets a couple of fried eggs topped on the kibble), and the occasional ear goop and draining, more for preventative maintenance than any thing else, and are wallets are seeing the "change" too. If you find something out that works for KoKo, please pass it along.
-Willie H. ....
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