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 | DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding) 
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2004-01-02 72929
Looking for recommendations of affordable books, learning resources, websites, etc. for hydraulics. Especially stuff that is geared towards the do it yourselfer.
A project based book would be especially cool. Something that gives resources for buying pumps, actuators, etc. or at least tells how to select and look for the stuff.
Ideally, I's like to be able to make a power log splitter from scratch and then move onto some more challenging projects that are usefull around the home and jobsite.
Thanks,
Mark S.
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2004-01-03 72938
Morning Mark I asked Dennis a while ago about a hyd section on this site. I guess he's been busy. Maybe now would be a good time to get it going.
I just happen to be in the process of building a splitter but its a big one. Almost have the slide finished and am working on drilling 1" pin holes in 1" plate. That is slow going.
TomG knows Hyd and theory and Murf me thinks is the project mananger. There is a thread here some where about projects.
Have Fun Harvey ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2004-01-03 72944
I did a search for basic hydraulics stuff some years ago. The JD FOS Manual (Fundamentals of Service) was the best I came up with. FOS is a series that are intended as basic service orientation material for beginning techs. I have the hydraulics and engine manuals. They are available from JD dealers. I do have some other material and may start looking for some community college texts if my minor hobby obsession with hydraulics continues. The FOS manual isn't going to tell you in detail how to take a valve assembly apart or how a draft-control hitch or a HST works, but it isn't bad either.
You might see if the CAD plans company has a plan for a splitter. At least with a plan there's some engineering done so you don't have to guess about geometry, loadings etc. When I guess I end up with something way over-designed. ....
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| DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2004-01-04 73051
Hi Harvey,
Yeah, I'm a little suprised there isn't a forum for this subject here too.
Are you building your splitter from plans or designing it yourself?
Hi Tom,
I found this log splitter plan at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B0000AXFB3/103-1254200-9186225?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=I218GDFI4GT0ID&colid=3I2T1KNQS8QFT
And this book which looks pretty good but is pricey.
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0071406697/103-1254200-9186225?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=IOC8X5CHBSW14&colid=3I2T1KNQS8QFT
I also tend to way overbuild things. I do my work that way too. It's Why I'm not rich by now. ... :-)
I also found this electric powered hydraulic log splitter at amazon. It's around $450. I wonder how good it is. It had generally good reviews except for a couple guys who seemed to have received defective or damaged units.
I wonder why there are no electric (non hydraulic splitters)? Seems like a gear and worm drive set up would work for a splitter. Anyone ever tried this?
Mark S. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-01-05 73074
Mark I am taking the best features I've seen and used over the years to build.
It will have log lift, trays to hold unsplit, trays will eventually funnel into elevator for wagon, Also it will allow stationary operation and keep pushing up a pile.
My intent is to eventually us a 11-13 hp with a 20-22 gpm pump. But for now I'm going to use the Power Beyond hyd system from tractor. It will allow me time for fine tuning of system.
I've seen several types of lifts and none have really impressed me. So I am thinking about a boom with hooks that rotates on a shaft.
I've seen the electric ones in books. I've seen the ads, BUT I do not think those people that wrote the ads heat with wood. Looks like something city people would buy to split their store bought wood into kindling to start their cherry little fireplaces. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-01-05 73085
I have a vague recollection that I heard about a safety issue with those screw type splitters. Maybe somebody knows what it is or can tell me that I've got false memory syndrome. I'm with Harvey--I don't think they're very fast. ....
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| Mrwurm
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 184 South East Michigan
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2004-01-05 73087
Mark,
I have a copy of a great book that is published by the U.S. Army, 2001. The book is in Adobe Acrobat format (.pdf) and is 174 pages in length. The book is intended to teach new hydraulic technicians all the info they need to know to understand and service hydraulic systems. The file is 1.5 MB's. I believe I got the link to a copy from another Tractor Point member but I can't quite remember who. If anyone would like a copy, send an email to my address and I will forward as an attachment.
Jerry ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-05 73096
Harvey, first of all, good luck with the splitter project.
Next thing are those holes, instead of trying to drill 1" pinholes you should try burning them close to the right size then backfill them with an arc welder and small soft rod, it will go MUCH faster.
As for your lift, try using a straight arm with a hinged end plate of about 18" in length. If you make a small travel mechanism in the hinge and hydraulic lift arm the first thing that will happen when you go to lift the block is the hinged plate will move upwards trapping the log in the 'elbow' of the arm instead of rolling away from the splitter.
Best of luck. ....
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| DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2004-01-05 73097
Hi Harvey,
I forgot to include the link to the electric splitter. I like the fact that it's quiet (and fairly inexpensive), but I'd hate to get one and find out it's a piece of junk.
Here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006AVZC/qid=1073315443//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl86/103-9759024-4317422?v=glance&s=garden&n=507846
If I can build a good one for the same price that'd be more rewarding I'd think. Plys I'd know who to call if it ever needed repair... :-)
I guess the issue with an electric powered splitter that's any good is that you'd need a pretty monstrous motor (5-10hp, 4000-7500watts). That'd be a pretty big motor and cost a lot I'd think. Or would a motor that size be neccessary?
Mark S. ....
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| DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2004-01-05 73099
Hi Tom,
Yeah I was thinking that a screw type splitter would take a while to move the ram back and forth, especially if there's a significant gear reduction required for neccessary torque. Would probably need greasing a lot too to keep the wood chips and everything from cloggiing up the screw mechanism.
I'm just curious why I don't see any such animals.
Mark S. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-05 73100
As long as you're not in any hurry a pretty small electric motor will make all the pressure required, it just won't have much volume which equates to speed.
I have seen MANY homemade splitters made from old washing machine motors powering a truck power steering pump, not real fast or real pretty but apparently they were better than swinging an axe.
Best of luck. ....
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| DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2004-01-05 73101
Hi Jerry,
I'd love that. I'm sending you a note via e-mail
Mark S. ....
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| DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2004-01-05 73103
Qoute from Murf
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I have seen MANY homemade splitters made from old washing machine motors powering a truck power steering pump, not real fast or real pretty but apparently they were better than swinging an axe.
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Dang, I just tossed out an old washing machine and power steering pump (believe it or not). That sounds like a fun experiment anyways. Something to get the project rolling, and then replace the pump and motor later with something more substantial.
I imagine that getting the ram, valve, and pump wouldn't be that hard. Neither would be getting the steel to build it all with. But the one thing I'm wondering about is where I would get the splitter head itself. Shouldn't that be forged steel with a sharpened edge? Or is just welding a coulpe of plates into a ninety degree angle and then sharpening it with a grinder sufficient? I guess the more power avaialable, the less important this is as long as the wedge is strong enough.
I guess while I'm mulling all this over I might as well start getting a list of suppliers together and figuring out costs. Any idea of where I can go online to get a ram, valve, pump, etc. that's sells at reasonable prices and offers good service?
What sizes of everything should I be looking at?
Mark S. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-05 73106
Mark, the splitter head is normally amde up of 3 pieces of steel, sort of a splitting sandwich, except they come together at about a 25-30 degree angle. The center piece protrudes out in front of the two side plates by about 1" which is sharpened to a cutting edge of usually 45 degrees. This center plate is hard steel like that used for B/H buckets, cutting edges on FEL buckets, and wear edges on snowplows. I have a ready supply of them myself from our worn down plow facings.
I believe Northern Tools sells them also, if not any welding shop which does heavy equipment work will have the steel in stock.
Likewise any hydraulic supply shop will handle the cylinders, valves, etc., but IMHO half the fun of doing it yourself is scrounging for parts (it's also cheaper, the farmer in me comes out, LOL). Heavy equipment wreckers are good sources for big cheap cylinders. Scrap steel, I mean well seasoned steel, is a good start for the frame, most scrap yards are full of lengths of large H beams (sometimes called I beams) from demolished buildings, normally it sold by the pound for a little over scrap value.
Best of luck. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-01-05 73157
Murf that is a good thought on the lift. I've used them. I am thinking more along the line of a boom type lift anchored near middle or toward ram anchor point. Hyd lift and manual pivot with tongs. When not needed swing out of way and have one of those high energy kids loading blocks or rolling to splitter.
I'm liking that idea and been studing booms on back of service trucks.
Mark northern hyd/tools has as good a price as anyone for a name brand cylinder and valve and they have their in house names at half the price.
What Murf said about used cylinders is valid we have a big brand new yellow one in the dumpster over $4000 new the rod is 3" x 18" the ports are 1 1/8" It would take one hell of a lot of oil to cycle otherwise it would be here. But I do have a couple of smaller ones scrounged out of dumpster. One me thinks is gonna work perfect on my boom idea.
My wedge is 12"h X 10"l X 1&1/4Thick inch plate cut with torch for angle and hard faced 3 passes then ground to edge.
As Murf said most welding shops have this stuff her and there and will get rid of it for scrape prices unless they have to cut from fresh steel.
Much of this would be cheaper to buy ready build but thats not near as much fun as dumpster diving for scrape and making something from all those treasures.
Harvey ....
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 | JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2004-01-05 73170
For those of us without welders (yet), DR sells a small, prebuilt washing machine motor style splitter I've been eyeing.
My question is: "Is 4 tons enough to split most wood (slowly)?" ....
Link: Electric / Hydraulic Splitter
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-06 73221
Harvey, the boom is a good idea but I think you will find it a little slow compared to a lift-arm concept.
As for that big cylinder in the dumpster, DIVE IN after it. Don't forget if you're running a 2-stage pump it will be making nearly 20 gpm on low pressure, that will move a 6" cylinder surprisingly fast.
If you are going to run with the boom idea there are two tricks that might make it easier or faster to accomplish.
First is to use a fixed boom, accomplish the lift by mounting a peice of barn door track upside down on top of the boom with a long skinny cylinder inside with the fixed end at the far end of the boom and the rod extension travelling towards the 'elbow' then mount a pulley on the end of the rod. The lift cable then runs from the far end of the arm, under the cylinder back towards the 'elbow' over the pulley on the rod and back to the far end where it goes over a second pulley at the tip. This doubling speeds lift/lower times and a 2' cylinder will give you 4' of cable travel.
Second idea is to skip the hydrauics all together and just use a fixed arm and accomplish the lifting/lowering with a hand cranked winch of the type used on a boat trailer or a small electric unit. If you opt for the electric unit the mag. on the engine will likely keep the battery fairly well charged, it also opens up the possibilityof electric start for the power unit.
As a last notion, as weird as it sounds I have seen quite a few splitters on which the pump was chain driven by a motorcycle engine, complete with the tranny and all. It seems there are a lot of bikes with perfectly good engines which are either a few years old, or the victims of "Sudden Horizontal Parking Syndrome". They can often be had for next to nothing and offer all the parts necessary for a first class stationary power plant, fuel tank, gauges, electric start, choke, witring, exhaust, even lights if you're so inclined. All this and mounted on a nifty little tube frame. One fellow even used a pair of small disk brakes like they use on Go-Karts and hooked them to the bikes brake system to keep the splitter from rolling away on uneven ground.
Best of luck. ....
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| DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2004-01-07 73408
quote from Murf
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Mark northern hyd/tools has as good a price as anyone for a name brand cylinder and valve and they have their in house names at half the price.
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Do you have a web address for them? I'm having a hard time finding them through the usual search engines.
Also, does anyone know of a heavy equipment junkyard in the LA area? I saw an episode of Monster Garage once where they got a backhoe assy from a heavy equipment junkyard in Long Beach, but they didn't give a name of the place, and as such I'm so far unable to locate it.
Just so I can get an idea of what to look for, what size cylinder/actuator will I need? How about the pump and motor? I guess the only other things I would need is a valve and resevoir (besides the steel, hoses, fittings, and so on). What should I be looking for regarding the valve and tank?
Trying to get an idea of costs here.
In the mean time I'm reading through that Army hyd manual that Jerry sent me.
Thanks,
Mark S. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-01-08 73417
Try this ....
Link:
Click Here
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-08 73432
Mark, the usual length for a splitter cylinder is 24", however depending on the size of wood you are cutting you can normally get away just fine with a 16" cylinder for 12" or slightly larger wood.
All lengths are TRAVEL measurements, not overall lengths.
As for diameter, that is one of two components that determine both the speed at which it will cycle, and also the force it will develop.
If you are going to make this splitter as an experiment, as sort of ver. 1.0 model, then use almost any pump & motor you can find. If this is a one shot deal, do yourself a favour and go with a good power source. A new 9-11hp motor and a TWO stage pump. If you have access to a reasonably priced machine shop you can use an old PTO-driven pump from a dump truck in the wreckers. They are both high-pressure and high-volume units, in fact a lot of big self-built commercial splitters around here are powered by a 4 cyl. car engine driving a dump truck pump. The fuel tank from the same truck usually makes a perfect reservoir.
The best way to find a local source for parts is to phone either a big hydraulics shop, or a NEW equipment dealer. They will know ALL the good sources for parts locally.
Best of luck. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-01-10 73602
MURF You talked me into it. I am going diving. That cylinder deserves a better look. I found the pins for it on the shelf in the shop. there are 3" diaX6"long. While looking for them I uncovered a new cylinder just over 40" long with 3/4" pins me thinks that is my boom cylinder.
Not sure if that cylinder in dumpster can be used on this splitter but I'll check it. Me thinks it weighs in close to or more than 300#.
If I can't use it on the splitter it would make one hell of a stump puller with some cables from the drag line and a good anchor :-)
Man I love that toy box! And they pay me! ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-01-12 73778
Go Harvey!!!
Your comment about a big nasty cylinder reminded me of a rather unique setup I saw on another homemade splitter a few years back.
The guy had also made it with what was available (read: scrounged and therefore FREE) and the cylinder was a dipper cylinder of a full sized excavator, the length of stroke was such that it allowed an enormous amount of travel. Rather than only using a portion of the stroke he merely made sure that all wood was cut VERY square then loaded the splitter with 3 blocks of wood end-to-end for each cycle.
On another note, you mentioned that big 40" cylinder you also discovered. If you go to a good sized power plant you may want to look at putting a compressor in the circuit. There's nothing faster or easier to use for lifting light objects or to kick the split blocks clear. On a lot of production firewood processors they use hydraulics only to cut and split the blocks, the 'man-handling' in & out of the cutter and splitter is done with automated air cylinders.
As for the power plant itself, you can often get a complete (wrecked or terminally rusted) car or motorcycle for less than the cost of a good small gas engine. A big Kohler or Honda can easily cost $1,000 or more, and you still need a pump, brackets, etc., which will cost another $500 or more. A Honda car engine running an old truck PTO pump is more in the $500 range and will run forever.
Best of luck. ....
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 | k9fletch
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 52 Whittemore, MI
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2004-01-13 73864
Harvey, I'm just catching up on this thread for a boom to lift your logs, and I remember seeing this small trailer with a log grapple that Hardy Loaders makes. I'll try to attach the Link. ....
Link:
Click Here
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-01-14 73925
Thanks k9. That is a little overkill for a wood splitter but I do like the thought of the graples and I do have a small 8" cylinder laying here somewhere. ....
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