Go BottomTHE original compact utility tractor
 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2003-12-04 70280
It is obvious in reading the postings on this website that the compact utility tractor is near and dear to our hearts. Much thought, design, and engineering went into each and every one of them. However, the machines we use today were not developed overnight. Almost every part has evolved over the years. I’ve been thinking about this for some time now and I would like to voice my nomination for what might be called “the original compact utility tractor.” My choice would be the Ford-Ferguson N-series.
I could mention the handy size, the low center of gravity, and the maneuverability. I could mention the 28 horsepower engine size, that it had a cartridge oil filter and distributor/coil ignition. I could mention that it was the first to brag a quiet muffler or that it had a unitized frame made up by the engine, transmission and rear-end rather than a separate frame. I could tell you that more units were sold than all other manufacturers combined.
No, I won’t bring those things up, I won’t use those things to qualify my nomination. I will simply draw on the Ferguson system 3 PT as my basis for this tractor’s importance. The 3PT made the jump from pulling everything (as in horse drawn) to creating an integral tractor/implement unit. In my opinion, there has been no one development that is more useful in the way we use our tractors today. And the N-series tractor was the first production unit with the 3pt system.
As a side note, three months before he died in 1960, Ferguson revealed plans to build a new tractor with a torque converter automatic transmission and 4WD. It’s starting to sound pretty familiar.
I suppose this post will really rile up the Ford haters out there (see the “tractor projects” section of the general board) but maybe that was the idea in the first place…
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-04 70293
I think that the thread that you are referring to is almost three years old. I follow that up by saying that I personally have a NH tractor which is the successor to the Ford line.
I don't know that I exactly agree that the Ford was the grand-daddy of CUTs but it certainly had its uses. On the farm where I grew up, we had one Ford 8N. It was a good tractor for some hay work and was good for running around the farm with a load of feed or things in a small cart. I don't recall using any 3PT implements on the 8N however.
Our John Deere tractors had various proprietary lift systems for cultivators and other implements. Other tractors had various lift schemes, but none of them were interchangable. With the advent and general standardization of the 3PH, farmers had a wider choice of tools that could be mixed and matched. Entrepreneurs that wanted to build implements had a standard interfaces to use.
I think that the Ford 8N was a good tractor. I actually thought about those when I was in the market for tractors a couple of years ago, but even though they got a lot of things right with that tractor, the new diesel compacts are head and shoulders above the old guys. My tractor isn't all that much bigger than one of the old 8Ns, but it has 45 diesel HP, which means a LOT more torque. It has a FEL that will carry a ton. Put all of that torque and capacity together with a 12 speed synchro gearbox, and there are a lot of differences.
Like most items that we use today, the technology has developed over a number of years. Technological Darwinism would give you a notion that most of the good ideas will survive and thrive. I don't miss some of the old 2PT and other proprietary hitch systems; they were just not as convenient and the market saw to their demise. But, at the same time, even the Ford tractors had the benefit of many years of trial and error for different systems that worked. AC, MF, and others made tractors that were smaller in size with easy access and high maneuverability.
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL 
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2003-12-04 70294
I have seen only a few N's with 3pts. The value of the 3pt was not really utilized until Ferguson combined to create the company that bares his name to day MF.
I am enclined to think that the utility end of things really belongs to the small Farmall os the same era. They are still being used for crop row farming all over with their many attachments. They were certainly the first to belly mow, cultivate, PTO work, tillage etc. I have seen them at work in NJ, KY and here in AL/MS. Most N's have long been replaced on the farm for utility. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-12-04 70300
I always had the notion that most of what we have today, especially in the under 2000 pound class, is an outgrowth of the 'rice paddy' tractors manufactured in Japan and Korea a generation ago. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-12-04 70310
Mark the paddy tractors do not have the 3pt that we use or the attachments and their basic design was concieved along before Kubota and the others even made tractors. Even the 4 wheel system is not an Japanese invention. Althought the first was the Fitch in 1916 the basic layout was completed long before Kubota or other Japanese manufactures started production. For example Willys sold a Jeep with a PTO and 3pt option shortly after the war. Not much different than a bota with frame.
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 | drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 334 southeastern pa 
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2003-12-05 70322
I agree with Peters. I think the small farmalls like the Cub, 100 and A are more closely related to the modern CUT. I have two cubs and also an NAA the cubs are extremly versitile, more so than the ford. I recognize the importance of the N series, but the mondern tractor is one machine that can be used with what seems like an endless number of implements. ( like the cub) Also there are a huge # of cubs still in use today for belly mowing, sickle mowing,cutivating,planting ect.. I think most Ns are either retired or used occationally and have been replaced by more versitile machines. Before I get slammed for the last statement I said most not all. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-05 70340
I should have mentioned the Farmall Cub as well. We had one of those also, and it got much more use than the Ford 8N because it had a MMM on it. It would be difficult to put any definition other than CUT on the Cub.
Along the lines of what Mark was saying, I do think that the American manufacturers seemed to split their lines into smaller lawn tractors and larger agricultural tractors for a number of years and had a very limited or non-existent offering in the CUT range. That void was indeed filled by the Japanese tractors. The concepts surrounding the CUT were not new, but anytime that manufacturers avoid a market segment, they open themselves to new competition. By the time the CUT ball got rolling, the US mfrs ended up playing catch-up or making alliances with the Japanese CUT manufacturers like Yanmar and the others. Kubota has done a good job in maintaining its independence and holding its market position as a top manufacturer. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-12-05 70342
Another line you might consider was the old Cub Lo Boy series tractors. They can with a 3 pt. hitch, pto, MMM, FEL were available for them, and they had a bullet proof 15 hp 4 cylinder gas engine. Not alot of power but they sure ran forever. VERY simple and in some ways crude by todays standards but got the job done. Mine was about 40 years old when I sold it and it still had the original engine and tires on it. Still ran like a champ. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2003-12-05 70343
I keep thinking that if I had to get rid of all but one attaching mechanism (front FEL, mid, and rear 3pt) that I could do the most with the 3pt. I can still finish or rough mow, dig, level, skid trees and many other things. About the only thing that I can't do is lift anything over a few feet high which is why I now have an FEL. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-05 70345
Magnum, you have a good point about the 3PH, but I really believe that it was an industry standard. This all happened a long time ago, but I think that Massey Ferguson was really the driver of the 3PH as we know it today. I could very well be wrong on this, but that is my recollection.
What we see are evolutionary changes in the designs and markets. On my old farm tractors, all the FELs only had single acting cylinders and gravity trip buckets. I would not want a loader without dual action cylinders and hydraulic bucket tilt, today. The older loaders were useful, but they have added utility with todays models. Fortunately, the manufacturers have recognized that the current crop of CUTs are profitable for them and I expect that they will continue to have useful features and refinements added as the market matures. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-12-05 70356
With all due respect, I think you guys all missed the 'big picture' completely.
In the days when 8N's, Farmall Cubs and the like were state of the art they were full on farm tractors. They were used as the primary traction engine on many small farms and were 'chore machines' on larger farms to keep the hours off the big machines, or to do tasks that didn't require big power.
The true 'compacts' back then, IMHO, were the (by todays standards) 1 & 2 wheeled walk-behind units. Some of the most popular were the Shaw (makers of VERY popular Do-All later on) one wheelers. They featured a 3.5 - 6hp engine in front of the driven wheel, and a draw bar to which was fixed a cultivator, plow or anything else, your imagination was the limit.
Up to this point all 'garden work' was done by hand, during WW1 there was a desperate shortage of both food and horses, this inspired the production of these small 'tractors', it enabled a family to grow their own food while also reducing demand for the horses that would have normally been required to do the work. During the depression the demand became even greater and by the time of WW2 the wartime demands pused them to even wider use.
I still have one myself, if I get a chance I'll dig it out and put up a picture.
BTW, ShortMagnum, check your historical data, Kubota hsa been in existance since the 1890's, while they didn't make tractors form day one, I think you will find they were making tractors before Mr. Ford.
Best of luck. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-12-05 70360
Anyone's view of the big picture probably depends on their direct experience. I grew up in Missouri and we farmed about a thousand acres. The little Ford 8Ns and Farmall Cubs didn't see serious farm duty in my neighborhood. Don't get me wrong, we had and used both models, but they were for special operations even forty years ago, on our farm. We had neighbors that had smaller places with a few head of cattle and some of them used the Ford 8N just like I use my CUT today. The smallest tractor that we ever used for any tillage task was a JD Model A. That was the old two cylinder rotary engine thumper and it was a pretty large sized tractor as I recall.
Over the years, we had several of the JD A's, JD B, JD 720, JD 4020, AC WD, IH Farmall Cub, Ford 8N, and probably one or two others.
We had a large garden. We could have used the Cub or 8N for tilling that area, but when it came time to work that plot, a quick swipe with one of the large plows, discs and harrows would finish up the job in short order. The fine tillage work in the garden was done with a walk behind tiller. It would have been great to have a power tiller for the back of the Ford, but my dad probably figured that he did not need one since he had me.
The Ford 8N had a sickle bar mower and it was also used to tow wagons, hay rake, etc. We used it for hay operations because it was easy to get on and off of. The Farmall cub was used for mowing our lawn. Our house was on five or six acres of trimmed lawn. The Cub could do all but the final trim operations. Trimming was done with a gasoline rotary push mower. The mowers on these two small tractors were the only dedicated implements that we had for them. All of the other implements were fairly universal and pulled from a drawbar.
The Allis Chalmers WD was the most specialized tractor arrangement. We only used that to operate an AC Rotobaler and an AC Combine. The Rotobaler was a hay baler from the 1950s and later that rolled hay into rolls of about 100 pounds in a cylinder about two feet in diameter and four feet long. These bales were "waterproof" and could be left outside for more than a year. Of course the AC tractor could also pull a hay rake or wagon. Many of the older implements such as hay balers, grain augers, elevators and so forth had their own gasoline engines and did not need a tractor to drive them.
I have never seen the walk behind motor driven tractors you mention or any of the implements. I even sold farm equipment at a local dealership for seven years. So I have to say that they were not popular in our area. We did trade for some very old Pre WW2 equipment from time to time. I remember tractors that started on gasoline and then switched over to kerosine and other such oddities. My grandfathers were still using mules and horse teams for some things when I was very young. Only one grandfather ever became comfortable with tractors and power machinery. All of the old gasoline motor driven hay balers and other equipment were eventually sold to Minunite and Amish farmers that still use such equipment today.
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 | brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin 
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2005-03-12 107882
I am getting sick of looking at mine in the back of my garage. I need to get my butt in gear and hook up the fuel tank and oil lines. Tighten up the steering sectors and send it down the road. I was in love with it but lost all drive to fix and keep it last year. Started like a gang buster on it but extenuating circumstances had derailed my motivation. Now every time I look at it I am getting more and more ready just to sell it as is. No motivation no drive no need and the worst thing is that I have more time on my hands than ever before in my life. Maybe a weather warm up will change my attitude but for now it is what it is. ....
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| BrendonN
Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 89 Central Kansas
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2005-03-13 107891
There seems to be a bit of confusion as to where the 3-point hitch came from. Harry Ferguson (an Irishman) designed the hitch in the early 30's and David Brown manufactured over 1000 Ferguson-designed tractors (not at all related to the well-known N-series) with the new hitch. (Earlier he had played with his hitch on a Fordson but this was not successful.) This partnership broke apart and Ferguson needed to find another tractor manufacturer to work with. This is where Henry Ford comes in and the "handshake" agreement resulted in the joint-effort Ford 9N in 1939. This was replaced by the 2N in 1942. These tractors were designed and built by Ford (using Ferguson's hitch as standard equipment) and Ferguson handled signing up implement manufacturers to built compatible tools. In 1946 the partnership ended and Ford produced the 8N and Ferguson built the TO20. The two were very similar and resulted in lawsuits by Ferguson since Ford continued to use his hitch design. Lacking a good marketing base in the US, Ferguson had trouble competing with Ford and was outsold by a wide margin. Massey-Harris bought Ferguson in 1953 and combined the names to become the Massey Ferguson we know today.
By the way, this hitch was produced before any ASAE classifications but was used as the basis for the standards when they were written. The 9N hitch became ASAE Category 1.
The hitch was quite advanced in that it utilized a draft control system. A major drawback, though, was the transmission-driven hydraulic pump. In order to operate the hydraulics, the clutch had to be engaged. Most of the 8N's you see today with loaders have aftermarket engine-driven pumps to provide live hydraulic power.
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| BrendonN
Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 89 Central Kansas
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2005-03-13 107892
There seems to be a bit of confusion as to where the 3-point hitch came from. Harry Ferguson (an Irishman) designed the hitch in the early 30's and David Brown manufactured over 1000 Ferguson-designed tractors (not at all related to the well-known N-series) with the new hitch. (Earlier he had played with his hitch on a Fordson but this was not successful.) This partnership broke apart and Ferguson needed to find another tractor manufacturer to work with. This is where Henry Ford comes in and the "handshake" agreement resulted in the joint-effort Ford 9N in 1939. This was replaced by the 2N in 1942. These tractors were designed and built by Ford (using Ferguson's hitch as standard equipment) and Ferguson handled signing up implement manufacturers to built compatible tools. In 1946 the partnership ended and Ford produced the 8N and Ferguson built the TO20. The two were very similar and resulted in lawsuits by Ferguson since Ford continued to use his hitch design. Lacking a good marketing base in the US, Ferguson had trouble competing with Ford and was outsold by a wide margin. Massey-Harris bought Ferguson in 1953 and combined the names to become the Massey Ferguson we know today.
By the way, this hitch was produced before any ASAE classifications but was used as the basis for the standards when they were written. The 9N hitch became ASAE Category 1.
The hitch was quite advanced in that it utilized a draft control system. A major drawback, though, was the transmission-driven hydraulic pump. In order to operate the hydraulics, the clutch had to be engaged. Most of the 8N's you see today with loaders have aftermarket engine-driven pumps to provide live hydraulic power.
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