Go BottomJust gave up my SUV What s next
 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2003-09-28 65005
It seems the women in our lives influence our purchasing habits to a great extent. I normally trade the wife's ride as soon as the warranty expires, our jeep Cherokee being the exception. I ran it 14k past and would just as soon have kept it to 100k but the truth came out, she hates the SUV's. The jeep provided good gas mileage and great traction and visibility but she does not like the handling or ride. My concern is that she is safe on the highway and can get in and out of our driveway when the snow piles up and I am not here to help her. It is at my insistence she purchases all wheel drive and has good crash protection.
We took a left turn and purchased an Outback yesterday. I have been following Subaru and never hear much negative about them. All wheel drive, handles like a car, excellent crash test results and good fuel economy. It presumably will have the reliability of other Japanese cars, although this one is made in the US (my Dodge truck is made in Mexico). The VW we owned was made in Mexico, nice car but the moldings fell off it.
Does anyone have experience with these? The only negative I have heard is up to last year they have had some front brake problems ie warped rotors and some wind noise near the mirrors, which I did not notice when we test drove one.
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-09-28 65010
Cutter DIL (daughter-in-law) has one the biggest problem she has is the Super Screw service department. You need this, you need that, you has 40,000 miles you should replace the brakes....
and the list goes on...
Harvey ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2003-09-28 65011
So she does not need it, the service department needs the work, correct Harvey?
They threw an extended warranty offer at us when we were sent to the "finance manager". This guy needed some H/R guidance, did not know his product and was insulted when I questioned the package he was offering. For $850 I could purchase a bumper to bumper that covered an additional 24k to run up to 60k total. He claimed the warranty was $325 and the rest was the oil changes and tire rotations for the warranty period. I said how many oil changes is that? He said he thought it was eight (Subaru suggests a change at 3750 miles), you can figure the rest for yourself. I said "give me the warranty and keep the oil changes, I do that myself". So I have bumper to bumper coverage to 60k for an additional $325. I think he screwed up as I spotted him running into the manager's office as we left the showroom, he seemed upset, wonder why. ....
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 | TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2003-09-28 65013
Sounds like it'd be a good idea to save receipts for oil and materials and buy from someplace that gives detailed receipts. At least that's what the shop that rebuilt my truck engine said they'd need if I was doing my own warranty work, and it sounds like there may be fair potential here for arguments down the road. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2003-09-28 65014
It is a factory extended warranty Tom, the rest was a dealer add-on that has questionable value. I will probably bring it to the dealer from time to time for service, usually do that during the sloppy season as it is not worth getting covered with slush to save five bucks on an oil change.
As far as saving receipts, I put the oil and filter invoices in the glove box of each vehicle. As long as the oil doesn't look like mud when it comes in on a hook I doubt that will ever be a problem. From what I have read, the durability of the boxer engine is comparable to that of the old slant six, if not better. So my presumption is that any problem which may occur down the road will most likely be electrical in nature or not related to the drive line. ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-09-28 65018
Sorry I guess I was I was vague. Me thinks the service dept is trying to get all they can. I do not see anything out of the ordinary when I look at it for her. NY roads are tuff on all components.
You make a good deal up front and service tries to make back the difference.
I've owned a Subaru and was very pleased. Biggest complaint I had was cost of parts. I expect it is the same for all makes now.
Subarus are good cars. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-09-28 65024
I think we can thank Honda for the change in automotive/parts cost distribution. In the early 70's when I sold Honda cycles the parts changed slighly every year. A 750K motor did not change the basic design from 68 to well into the 90's. The price of the bike was low but they made it back with the parts. Something as trivial as the mirrors or cover plates would not fit one year to another.
Nissan wants an arm and a leg the first 5 years and drops after that. Other manufactures are seeing the better idea and following suit.
I don't believe it matters what brand it is with the ignorance of the general public you can be taken to the cleaners. I recently changed the gas filter on my wife's Volvo. Looking at the bolts I realized that the filter had never been off the car. The former owner like Cutter had saved all the receipts for dealer Volvo service in Anniston AL. A bell rang in my head. I went back through the receipts and they had charged her twice for the fuel filter (50$) in routine service. Nice scam if you can get away with it. You definately need a heads up these days.
Ask me why I hate to take anything to the dealer, unless it is under waranty.
Peters ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-09-28 65032
Interesting about the filter. I wrecked the front end and you should have seen the repair bill. I looked at it and choked. Over 4000.00 w/ 500 deductable. I went down the list item by item. NO WAY DID THEY FIX MOST OF THE STUFF ON THAT BILL. I brought the body shop guy out and the service mananger they Ah-ah-ah-ah well we did all that work. I showed them rusty parts and bolts that had never been removed and suggested we get the insurance company down here to inspect the repairs before I moved the car. They asked if they took 1000 off the bill and I did not have to pay the deductable if that would be fair...
Good service departments with honorable managers are hard to find and when you do keep all of your business there. We may pay a little more up front for our cars but when the service guy brings a loaner to where I work and takes my car and gets it back the same day with no extra charges that is where I'll spend my money.
Dealers may have to fix your vehicle even if you do not buy from them but they sure do not have to provide that kind of service. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2003-09-28 65034
I used to buy from a dealer that did the loaner thing but I was treated poorly on some other issues. They had the private offices where they sold you the car, fed you coffee and pampered you. My wife's VW was vandalized and I sent it right there for repair, to my surprise it was in terrible condition when returned. Filthily inside, terrible paint work not to mention stunk like a can of lacquer thinner so badly you could barely drive it with the windows open. Now I shop price along with a reputable dealer and don't expect more than that. The place we just dealt with has a free shuttle, works for me. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-09-28 65038
My wife just bought a legacy this spring and everything I hear is good about them. Every mechanic I talked to talked highly of there quality. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-09-28 65042
I have a few friends and relatives that have the Subarus. The quality and reliability are good. I know a few good older mechanics that will not touch them as they are a little difficult to get at the engine. Better than a Sandia Saab but? Almost everything is that way today so? ....
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144 
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2003-09-29 65059
I have friends with Subaru cars and they love them. I have never heard a single complaint except for the number of variations of the parts. I don't know if this is because of model changes or updates, and I cannot elaborate further.
I live on a dirt road and we only drive 4WD vehicles. A Subaru was certainly on the list for consideration. My wife liked the Jeep Wrangler better, but personally I enjoyed the Subaru more. But, it was her car... ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2003-09-29 65105
You are either a Wrangler fan or you aren't, there is no middle ground with them. I learned to drive standard shift on a 49 Willie flat hood and have had an affection for them ever since. In fact, when we went to road test the Liberty a week ago there was a new Rubicon in black on the floor. I would have given my eye teeth for it but the wife worked some sense back into my emotions. I still miss my 94 Wrangler! ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-09-30 65122
Many of my freinds have or have had Porshes, I call my wifes car my economy Porshe. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-09-30 65146
My wife's Wrangler has a hard top with roll up windows and so forth. I am a large guy and my shoulders don't fit well in the Wrangler. The only way that I am comfortable in the Wrangler is to open the window so that my left shoulder is not pressed against it, but then my knuckles drag on the ground. ;-)
I drive full sized trucks because the fit me better. But, for some reason the Subaru was not uncomfortable for me. ....
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 | Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 875 Michigan
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2003-09-30 65151
Cutter, Havent driven a suburu in many years. Most I have known that had them were very pleased. My neighbors at my other property recently bought one. It seems to go through the woods well and I bet it gets pretty good fuel economy. I have to say I really disslike dealerships that sit you down in the finance managers office to sell you more stuff. Especially as most of them dont seem to have a clue what they are talking about. If she gets stuck in the drive you can always pull her out with the new 4 wheeler ! :) Dave ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-09-30 65158
Dave that could go both ways!!!! ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-09-30 65161
Back in the very early 80's my father bought a Suzuki pickup version of the Samurai for a utility vehicle at the farm. When I questioned the purchase he told me the dealer (a friend of his) hadn't been able to sell it, it was a year old, and so sold it to him for something rediculous like $5,200 just to get it off the lot. It was the funniest thing you ever saw, it had a sheet metal box with fold down sides, it was only about 4' square.
The workers all chuckled politely over it, until they drove it, one by one they realized it weighed so little it would go anywhere.
The chuckles stopped completely when they got one of the combines stuck taking out some corn late one fall, an early snow had covered a wet patch and the mud it was in was 2' deep, it was truly stuck. When they radioed back to get the big tow cable brought out a guy brought it out in the Suzuki. Then there was the problem of getting the cable out & hooked up, one guy got in the box of the Suzuki while a second person drove right to the combine and then backed up close enough to hook up without even stepping out!
It never so much as spun for a second, just rolled right along on top of the snow, in & out as easy as could be.
After that they took that thing place that you would think twice about in anything else, it was eventually replaced (the body 'biodegraded') by a Honda 4 wheeler, but to this day the guys still say the Suzuki was a better machine.
A lot of Japanese equipment is like that, I've heard the Subabru's are the same, just look at Subabru's parent company Fuji Heavy Industries, world leaders in almost everything they do.
Best of luck. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-09-30 65167
Murf, weight is a very big deal.
I have a lightened VW bug that is set up for desert racing. It will drive over sand that will sink most 4WD trucks. It is still 2WD, but with the big tires, light weight and resulting floatation, it rides over the top of things. Combine that with an overbored stroked VW engine and you have something that can really get the adrenaline flowing. (Like your boat, I expect)
I had a similar vehicle (only open framed) in Illinois years ago and I would run that through muddy corn fields for fun. The suspension would just work up and down over the bumps (corn rows) and the big tires kept it from sinking into the muck. I could lift the front end of that vehicle with my bare hands. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-09-30 65178
Funny how that weight thing works, my boat is a little over 5 tons but it floats (mostly) over the top of the water just fine.....ROFLMAO .....
In fact it is right out of the water completely sometimes... then my wife yells at me to slow down... LOL.
Adrenaline is a controlled substance .... she only lets me have it in small doses......
I have a t-shirt she doesn't like much, but I wear it anyways, it says "My wife came with instructions, LOTS & LOTS of instructions!"
I often thought I'd like to try that sand racing stuff, then I realized they don't put fridges or stereos in those buggys, how do you keep the ....errr, grape juice, cold?
That and the women wear to much clothing in that sport...
Best of luck. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2003-09-30 65180
Sounds as though the wife had good instinct regarding the car. Was a sad moment last night when I parked the Cherokee for the last time, it went 50k and the only $$ I put in it was to turn the rotors and replace pads. A couple of things were done under warranty, the most serious was a front wheel bearing. Blew through two sets of those in my S-10 over a period of 100k. I can't believe how well these new tires wear. Those Michelin's were still in excellent condition with probably 25k left in them.
She drove it to the city today and was a bit nervous but the report came back with a thumbs up, so we shall see if she keeps it the 60k it is covered bumper to bumper. ....
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