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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-28          111626

My neighbor (kubota L2950 owner) does not like me because I fenced off my property from his use (2 years ago). So yesterday he began scraping dirt with his loader and piling it up about 2 feet against my wire fence so it is bulging through the fence and dragging my wire to the ground. The line is clearly marked - I had stakes put in every 50 feet. I put the fence 1 foot inside the line - he knows where the line is.

I called the police and they talked to him - but they say it is a civil matter. It seems to me this is clearly an act of aggression - no different from a kid breaking windows and this should be treated as such. During the day the cops came two more times. Once for the guy putting a bottle of anti-freeze on the pile of dirt to signal he was going to kill our trees (we got a picture - then he ran down and removed the gallon - he admitted to police it was there but said it was just water), then again for shining a million watt spotlight on us while we were walking around the house at 10PM.

Each time he spoke to the cops, he became more aggressive and insisted to the police chief he had a right to hold a spotlight on anyone he wanted - then held it on the chief for a brief second.

So I guess I will be out there today on my tractor to clean up a stone wall. I know the advice from many of you will be to settle this - it can become pretty awful - no way to spend your life. But my belief is that I have a right to use my property without intimidation and I will only come out of here one way - dead.

I don't want to spend lots of money on court, lawyers - I know this is a waste of time. I may just get an estimate on what it costs to clear out - fix fence and go to small claims court. But I think these folks are arrogant because her father is well known in town and may have influence on a judges decision.

I knew this would happen - because we have really cleaned up the property line and planted nice large 6-8 foot spruce trees, made nice lawn, etc. They are steaming because we have developed something nice for our use that they had planned for using to compensate for the fact that they built their house 40 feet from my line (and they have a 4 acre lot).

Any creative ideas are welcome! Except be nicey-nice to a 35 year old punk (I am 52).


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-05-28          111634

Call the sheriff every time there is an infraction, and make sure a report is made, not just a "good talkin' to". There needs to be a record kept. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-05-28          111636

That sucks. These situations are often intractable. I have no solutions to offer, but would make the point that it's important to gather evidence and not end up in a he said/he said situation. You might consider installing some day/night surveillance cameras and recording equipment to catch him in the act. Keep logs of events, timestamps, the names of cops you talk to, badge numbers, etc. Evidence is good to have and hard to get after the fact. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-05-28          111640

ncrunch32,

First off what is going here is that your neighbor is CLEARLY conveying a threat to you. You DO NOT require the the sheriff to properly address this situation. Go to the courthouse and swear out a warrant on him with the magistate.

Secondly, he is deliberately dumping on your property. Dumping is a crime punishable by a minimum $500 fine in most states. Swear out a warrant on him for that.

Dumping of dirt in areas prone to errosion or potential washing require silt fences be installed by the Dept. of Environmental Quality or appropriate agency in most areas. Call the Dept. of Environmental Quality and report him.

Lastly, since this individual seems hell bent for leather to intimidate and aggrivate you. Contact the local magistrate and file a restraining order against him.

Look up as many local laws and ordinances as you can and report him for each and every violation. Get video tape of as much of him doing this as you can.

BEFORE you do ANY of this......... WITH 2 witnesses; go to the man's door and make an attempt to resolve this matter with him in person. If you get no results; then it is time to declare war. War is the LAST thing you want as things will get MUCH worse before they get better. Best to work something out with your neighbor on mutually agreeable terms if at all possible. ....

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StephenR
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 230 New Tripoli, Pa.
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2005-05-28          111641

Boy I feel for you. Not much worse than not getting along with your neighbors. Can't add much to what's been stated. The only hope from what you said, is that he might lose it with the police being there. Other than that stay safe and stay armed. Maybe get some night vision scope too. Good luck. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-28          111646

I have 24 hour videotaped surveillance - I installed it 2 years ago for $2000 from 123cctv.com, great system. $1500 joystick controlled zoom camera and $500 continuous record VCR. I already have some pretty interesting stuff - one policemans's eyes almost popped out his head when I showed him a tape. These police are pretty much useless even when you show them a tape of your neighbor stalking your daughter.

I have a 500 watt light on motion in my backyard - but if this guys wants to hurt my property its pretty difficult to catch at night. Actually he did his damage with the tractor in broad daylight! I was working in the poolyard -heard him running the tractor - but assumed he was on his own side and left him alone (as I always do). He never came within one foot of the fence before in 2 years. We do, however, have it all on videotape. The camera also actually serves to exonerate me and show that I don't harass my neighbor - since he often lies to the police.

An update today - they called police on us! I was trimming lilacs not knowing why the police came to our house. The neighbors said we were calling their son names. We had no idea what was going on! Afterwards we thought about it and we think that they heard us calling our cat "Lucifer". I guess they think Lucifer is what we were calling their son! Apt name, though I must say :)

Also the policeman said they (the neighbors) wanted to mediate the situation. I know, secondhand, you think that is a good idea. I don't. I own my property - it is mine -and my right to use it. There is nothing to mediate. I told the cop if the guy leaves me alone on my own property everything will be fine. In fact, I told the cop the neighbor can continue to call me names, try to scare us, but just don't damage my property. Then everything will be fine.

This mediation offer was interesting - I think the neighbors are getting nervous since the husband has actually damaged my property. On the other hand - I didn't trust the cop who came with the offer - this town is crooked and the wife's father has some influence. The guy acted sleazy. The cops who were here yesterday (including the chief) on my behalf seemed to know the neighbor was the problem and spent lots of time talking to him telling him we had the right to walk on our property without harassment. This cop who came today seemed like he came on an informal visit on behalf of the neighbor. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-05-28          111651

I say it is time for war. Go to you local judge or magistrate with what ever video you have and get a restraining order put in place. I'd say about 40 feet from your property should do the trick. ....

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JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 276 coxsackie,ny
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2005-05-28          111653

its a civil matter,my neighbor attempted to take my drive way through adverse possesion claiming he mowed the center strip as he entered his own yard.his wife worked for a lawyer thus "pro bono" and it cost me 6,000 to fight it and keep it.we agreed on pivioting the property line but he is a as-ho-e and wont make a date for the surveyor
so I sued for my legal expenses,he never showed but all I can do is put lein on his house and hope I get my money when he dies and he family tries to sell it!!!!
you have to persue it or risk his attempt to claim ownership !!!!
hey theres a report of anti freeze !!???
make sure its real then call encon/a $50,000 fine will wake his as- up !!! ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-28          111654

Oneace, I like your attitude! I have been thinking tonight. Maybe tomorrow I will call the state troopers and have them review the situation. If they say this is a civil matter, then OK. They are much more professional than the town cops. I will accept their opinion.

I will also probably call family attorney and speak with him about right approach to this. I will ask him about papers that should be filed. Plus I have the feeling that neighbors are setting me up with this mediation thing. The "lone ranger" cop who came over on behalf of the neighbor kept saying "so you won't mediate?" I think we need a registered letter from the attorney stating our position.

Jazak5, you have some good thoughts about the antifreeze. This is all on record. I feel for you with this adverse possession stuff. These are people trying to get something for free that they didn't work for. This is the same as stealing. I have a good friend who is encroaching into a field next to him stating he is going to assume it is his after 7 years. I told him if I was the farmer next to him I would kick his butt and put an old rusty combine machine next to him (or worse) for the next 20 years. This adverse stuff is BS that every realtor learns in class and then uses to harass his neighbor who tries to be decent. No way this stuff should ever happen!

Thanks to all of you - you let me vent, plus you all have great ideas. Thanks to everyone on this post! ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-28          111657

See pics 19 and 20 for dirt neighbor jammed up against my fence and gallon of antifreeze that neighbor displayed to telegraph message that he would kill my trees. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-05-28          111667

The picture of the fence makes it much clearer. I would take the fence down temporarily to remove the dirt and use it somewhere else on my land to do some landscaping. You have a FEL and a hoe......... piss him off and take all of the dirt away! And then when he puts it back again; take it away again. Make sure to properly document your time and machinery costs so you can send him an accurate bill just for the record when payback times comes. You could also decide to wash your fence with the pressure washer the next time he tries to dump more dirt. Another really good trick to pull to make your point is to go out and buy and old used freezer really cheap and put a bunch of spoiled meat and food in it and leave the top shut for about a month or so with it UNPLUGGED. When the guy has you really PO'd. move the freezer over as close to his house on your property when the wind is blowing the right way on a 90 degree day and decide to wash out your freezer that you accidently left unplugged. You will need a top quality respirator for this. I am cleaning a freezer just like this out now. Talk about sinus torture! I would suggest a hog pen but it looks like you are in a residential area. ;o) ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-05-29          111669

If you want to really piss him off and make a point you could always replace the fence with a 10 foot reinforced block or concrete wall. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-29          111671

Ha Ha! You both have good thoughts. Ken, I went with a wire fence originally because I didn't know what to expect from this character. I had the feeling he would do something like this someday. So at least I don't have a fortune in the fence like I would have had if I put in a solid panel fence.

I bought the fence at a professional place that has been selling fences for many years. It is really not noticeable from our house and is called a "varmint fence" which is perfect for its use. I wanted something that would bend with the ground easily and the wire stays rust free as you can see and is amazingly tough and hasn't broken. The fence has smaller rectangles as you get closer to the bottom. My wife says I should put a gate somewhere on the fence to let them know I will come on their side anytime to repair the damage they cause.

2ndhand, I had exactly the same thought about just taking the dirt. Actually I would REALLY be angry if he dug dirt away from the fence - he actually brought something of value to me. I want to leave it all there in the meantime for the record. I can also bring the other neighbors on tours down there - it shows everyone just who these folks are - though they have already been written off by most folks in the neighborhood and thats why these neighbors just don't care about anything.

You can see the blue spruce I planted to the right in pic 19. I raised them from seedlings and transplanted them on March 29 this year. I planted about 10 of these along the line and others elsewhere on the property. I am just praying that these folks don't do anything to hurt these trees. They are good for their own property value but these folks are just so pissed that we are back there using our property (that I think they wanted to take using adverse possession) that they might do anything. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-05-29          111672

Crunch, sorry but I am going to have to take the dissenting opinion here.

OK, after looking at the photo I have a better handle on the situation. I thought you put up a nice chain link fence, not that I like those either. From the looks of your fence I can see why he is not happy, not sure what you are trying to accomplish with a livestock grade fence. From the looks of your home you are in an upscale suburban neighborhood, putting stuff like that up is bound to raise some feathers. Particulary since your neighbor has too see it all the time, unless he spends a ton of money to screen it with a planting.

Looks like you two should see what you can do to solve this privately and stop the feuding before someone loses a father, not worth it!

I think your neighbor just wants that ugly thing gone so he doesn't have it in his face every day of his life. Since you both have tractors maybe you could team up remove the fence and build a nice berm between the two of you. This could be a therapeutic excercise for both of you.

....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-29          111673

Dennis, I respect your opinion but respectfully disagree. I think this is a very inobtrusive fence and we (them and us) already planted trees above the shed on both sides. He asked the town for a variance for an 11 foot fence (which we said "no" in the town hall due to the extreme height). The town granted him an 8 foot variance which we agreed to and he was supposed to put the fence up. He never put the fence up apparently because I agreed to it and because I thought it was a good thing. I planted trees on our side of the remaining fence - he did not. He has plenty of money and could clean his side up quickly - but he wants to park his tractor and trucks there and wants us to see them.

This guy is not someone I would waste a lot of money on. I knew he would ultimately destroy whatever I did. I was warned about him when he moved in by a resident in the neighborhood who is a fireman. Even if I didn't like the fence I would never harm someone else's property. I would just screen the fence with my own fence or trees. That is the proper way for any landowner to handle this. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-29          111674

Dennis, I will add that I put the same fence up on the line with a neighbor who is a good friend. We asked his permission first and kept it only in the wooded area. The fence is a safety net for my wife since she didn't feel comfortable walking around the property when I wasn't home with that guy living behind us. ....

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funchy
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-05-29          111676

I'm not a lawyer but I feel it's definitely a matter for the courts, not the police, unless he's clearly threatening bodily harm on your family.

I have a nextdoor neighbor like this who was out of control. I finally confronted him. He didn't say anything then but a week later he had reported me to every authority he could think of (all falsely) plus tried to get the other neighbors on "his side". We stopped speaking for awhile. I invested in some really tall bamboo and other boundry trees (bamboo is great for blocking off bad neighbors!). He's also on a tiny 2ac lot close to the prop line & I'm on 15ac. Some people are so strange sometimes?!

If you sue, you *might* be able to include your legal fees in the settlement; ask your lawyer. To pursure it in the courts, your first step is to document that you informed him of his "mistake". I'd send him a short, polite note via Certified Mail explaining it as a "misunderstanding" and ask he removes his topsoil from your fence at his earliest convenience. If cleanup/repair costs are under $5000 (amount depends on your state) you could file in Small Claims without a laywer. But realise even if you win a lawsuit, he'll still be a total jerk and will just find something different to mess with you.

In the end you have to pick your battles. Winning a court case won't make him a nice person. He may even get worse and you'll find yourself keeping belongings, pets, and kids locked away inside where nothing can "disappear". Police will not be helpful unless you can *prove* he's harassing, vandalising, or threatening you... and by then your tractor was spraypainted and your dog is missing.

In the long run maybe it would be better to try to make the peace with this jerk; ask him why he's doing it and what he wants, and try to appease him? (I know he's a jerk but in the long run this option may be better than a big feud) Or forget the legal stuff; just rebuild a better fence he can't wreck plus more trees to insulate you from him and write off the cost as just part of owning property too close to other people? ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-29          111677

Funchy - I agree with you. I'm not taking this to courts -not worth my time or money - will go nowhere. I am not retaliating in any way - just waiting to see what the neighbor does next. Hopefully he does not continue on his present course of action. I agree about the bamboo, it is a great solution. I have seen large plots of yellow groove bamboo that grows up here in the north. It is very nice as a barrier. ....

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DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2005-05-29          111678

Well, Your situation really sucks..really...Who wants to be at war with their neighbor....home is supposed to be where you go to renew yourself, not get more wound up..

As you vigorously persue your legal rights, you might consider simultaneously trying to kill him with kindness...You know like the bible says, "thereby heaping hot coals on their heads"....

The worse they treat you, the better you treat them...Will probably drive him absolutely bannanas.....and eventually sear what little conscience he has left....He'll probably think you're up to no good at first, but over time, it'll confused the crap out of him..

I hope this all gets resolved and you guys can live in peace with each other....I'd do a lot of praying...maybe God will allow a situation to arise where you san save his ungratefull arse or something....

But if it were me, I'd first ditch the wire fence and build me one seriously solid concrete one.......huge, deep footing with lots of rebar... if that didn't do the trick then I'd move onto the other options being suggested....

I just hope I don't have that situation myself at some point...I've lived next to a crazy/scary/D-Head/druggie before as a renter, and fortunatley he got evicted for not paying rent (by his sister) before I had to hit him over the head with something, and I can attest that that situation definitely 'sucks'....

What is it with some people that they are so miserable that they feel compelled to expend all this energy screwing up others lives?...If they would only focus all that energy in a positive direction, they'd probably be a heck of a lot less miserable... ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-05-29          111679

ncrunch32.......be VERY thankful you don't have neighbors like mine.......if you call them neighbors. I am on a bit larger piece of land and spent about 4 days posting the piece I live on now, and closing up cut fences. Some of the "nice folks" (and I use that term VERY lightly) necessitate that I wear body armor and carry an M-3 Super 90 and a CZ-75 30 rounds each. Don't get me wrong as I have some VERY nice and hospitable neighbors but their are some "neighbors" who like to poach and grow pretty green plants to smoke, not to mention ride their ATV's as well as dump trash on my property. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-05-29          111686

Neighbors, you gotta love em. Having a garden center lets me here all the neighbor stories, if it were not for bad neighbors, half my business would be gone!! I have even had my own neighbor problems even though I purchased a neighbor resistant property. One thought he would hide his car in my woods so the repo man would not get it. I did not know him or the car so I got his check book out of the glove box and called the number on the check. told his wife I was going to remove the car within the hour. When he got to my house 15 minutes later, he was appologizing and later I heard through the grape vine that he went home spouting excitedly about me wearing a gun. That is probaby the best advirtisement ever for leave me alone and obey my no trespassing signs. ....

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Boomerang
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4
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2005-05-29          111691

It looks like his small shed is very close to the property line. In AZ. where I live, his shed would have to be 7' from the line. I would call planning and zoning, he may have to move it back a few feet.
....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-05-29          111700

You have the evidence of the anti freeze jug. It may be put there to also send a message that if old lucifer gets out he will die a slow painful death (Antifreeze does that and will be drank up quickly by ANY animal around.) See my PM to you.
I think its war time right after your lawyer fires off a letter to warn him.
Also I think he is on to something by removing the fence. Put it anouther 3-5 foot further on to your land. Put no trespassing signs up on your line. Hopefully he will put MORE fill dirt further on your land. Heck the more free dirt you can get the better? The remove it when the time is right and keep it.
Of course your other option is just to fire bomb his house. get it done with once and for all! Oops, did I say that? ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-29          111704

Great ideas - especially no trespassing signs - brokenarrow! 2ndhand, I don't envy your position there in VA. But I think you're the right man to handle the situation. Boomerang - the shed is too close - the town granted an automatic variance to the neighbor over my objections when it was found to be too close.

In the town where I grew up this never would have happened. But here it is "variances r us" and I think these people are connected to an old-boys-network. I had a petition signed by 40 of 44 homeowners in my development stating opposition against variances in our planned development and the town still granted this neighbor all the variances he wanted. The neighbors are clearly in my camp. But the town is in the neighbors camp.

Anyway, I worked with my daughter all day today building a stone wall - bringing up rock along the property line to edge a bank of dirt behind the poolyard. The neighbor left us alone - a good sign. We'll see how long it lasts. But don't worry, I won't have a heart attack over this situation. We'll be out there again tomorrow working away. There's nothing I like more than digging in the dirt all day!
....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2005-05-30          111711

Crunch,

When I had my house built, I rented a house in a development of quarter acre homes. I had a spool of wire like you had with the stakes just like yours that I placed behind the house.

The first time I met my neighbor he does not say hello instead he says you don't plan on doing anything with that are do you, and by the way I am a prison guard. I did not put the fence up, had no plan to, but this guy decided from that point on treat us as inmates. Trailer trash to his high standards.

He proceeded to do everything to threaten me.....can't rent in the complex...., called the cops because my Lab had too many poops on my yard, you name it. He was a complete a..hole. As a consequence I used to do special things for him like run my tractor on the property line when he was on his deck. I also made sure the grass next to his lawn looked like hell by cutting it too short..... You name I did it.

But the long and short of it was I was miserable every day I lived next to that moron. We were so so happy the day our new home was done.

I wish you luck with your battle. I think in retrospect having my wife bake his fat a.. a pie would have been better, but then again he and his family got along with no one at the development.

Good luck!

....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-05-30          111713

Dennis, situation seems very similar. One difference, the original infraction with this guys was on his part - he crossed into my property with his Kubota and began taking my topsoil. He actually dug a 20 foot diameter hole on my property 3 foot deep behind some brush. I resurveyed the line and let the guy off with a warning. It all started from there. After that I had to watch everything he did.

For my wife and me this is the nicest home we will ever have - so we won't be moving anywhere. I am usually the nicest most respectful neighbor you would ever want. I typically ask my neighbors permission to do things I know I can do without their permission. I offer up my tractor to assist neighbors. But the years have toughened me to people like this. Like your neighbor - no one in the development is friends with these people anymore.

Broken, I have now enabled PMs. Sorry about that! ....

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Murf
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2005-05-30          111715

Taking the 'weekends off' I miss all the good stuff it seems. LOL.

You have a lot of good advice and ideas here, and I think 2ndHand has the right idea, a strong reply is needed.

We had a remarkably similar instance happen with one of my clients golf courses of all places. They decided to redevelop a vacant area of their land into a reception / conference facility with a large open area of gardens and grass. The wedding reception business alone would be enough to justify the building of it.

The problem was, the jerk next door, who had inherited the place from his FIL, had grown accustomed to using the place to store his junk, and using the golf course as an exercise area and toilet for his two golden retrievers. He also had a nice little business going selling all the balls the dogs picked up on their daily walk on the course.

Before we started work the course owner wrote the neighbour a polite letter informing him that work would soon begin and he needed to remove his stuff. The jerk wrote back that he had been there long enough to make it his land and he wasn't moving.

For legal reasons he actually had no claim to the land at all. So the course owner gave him 5 days to move his stuff and posted signs on the land. When we showed up it was still there. We could have merely lifted it back onto his land, but the lawyer had a better idea. We phoned a local towing service and had them drag everything to their impound yard. It apparently cost him a lot of money to bail everything out.

Things quietened down for a while after that and we finished all the construction and landscaping.

The following spring the course owner called me quite upset, during the winter the neighbour had done some 'landscaping' of his own. There was now a earth berm about 8' high between the properties and in places it was 25' out into my clients land. This was just dirt that he had got as clean fill from a construction company. He had been paid to take it.

After consulting with his lawyer and I, he had his lawyer send the jerk a letter, including a quote from me to repair the damage and remove the dirt, as well as a claim for lost revenue for bookings set for early spring functions.

My quote alone was WELL into the 5 figure range.

At the end of 5 days nothing had been said or done by the neighbour. We went in and repaired the damage and the course owner sued the neighbour.

The guy that lives in that house now is the greens-keeper for the course, the course owner got title to it when the jerk couldn't pay the judgement against him.

Maybe you should send your neighbour a quote. I'm sure if you talked nicely to one of the local contaractors they'd give you something to stick in with a letter from your lawyer.

Best of luck. ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-05-30          111717

Murf, I think you are right. An estimate to clean this up -with hazard pay :) along with a letter from my attorney is the right course of action here. ....

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AnnBrush
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2005-05-30          111746

Looks to me like you have some decisions to make. My observations are as follows: If you want to declare war as many have suggested you had better make sure you have an army so you had better start saving. By that I mean that escalating the cop calling, name calling, and general mud slinging will eventually result in someone having to deal the final blow (legal or illegal). How far are you prepared to go to return all his "favors" and can you withstand what his next move will do to you. Don't think retribution, thats generally very expensive and invites further retalliation. Think about how many hours you want to spend dealing with this problem, how many times you want to speak to the cops etc. Be prepared to incur some collateral damage as well (lost sense of security, worrying about if he will attack the wife or kids, etc). You might win the battle but loose the war (if your wife feels too threatened at the end of all this you may have to sell the place at her demand / request anyway). A lot of posts above mine speak glibly about property rights and "heck just get your attorney to do xyz". It's trivial stuff at present but it could get nasty. Murf had a great post about a golf course tyrant and how they turfed him out. That case was golf course / business vs. individual and that's a totally different dynamic than what you are dealing with. Golf courses dont have feelings or a personality, they just hire lawyers and people like Murf and presto stuff happens, the law is observed and there is noone to retaliate against. They don't care one way or the other and generally dont loose sleep over these sorts of matters. Your problem here is that he is a neighbour, you have to live with him and it sounds like you have more to lose than he does (you after all care about improving your property). I tend to think the quickest, cheapest and most expedient way to resolve this would be to see him in person and carry an olive branch. Chances are he doesn't like dealing with the cops and all this other stuff either. Know one thing for certain: getting lawyers and the courts involved will cost YOU (and him) time and money and chances are good that when they decide that they have made enough money from both of you they will draw up a truce that both of you will have to stomach. You could draw up that same truce right now and all it would cost you would be a couple of six packs and a few doses of humble pie. Plus you would probably get a good night's sleep. Make an earnest attempt at diplomacy first, understand his problem with all this, there may be a simple solution. Of course if you do decide to go to war, know that its going to cost in more ways than one, and winning it may not be worth the effort. Good luck. ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-05-30          111747

Annbrush, the cops just came because I had mellow music playing on my deck. They laughed along with us. My wife is tougher than I am. Let me reassure you that I am prepared to die for my property rights. I know that this game is not for the meek and mild. There is no more noble cause than defending your property. I am a farmer's son and have learned about property rights long ago. I have lived my life - my kids are doing great - and I have done my job in life. I will not back off because of what might happen. I have been threatened with my life before. I have had problem neighbors before who are currently licking their wounds. ....

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yooperpete
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2005-05-31          111751

ncrunch32:
Be careful, this guy is going to keep doing what he is, until you loose you cool. He is trying to get you to do something illegal so he can get the law after you. It appears the law is on his side or weak enough in your area to not make an end to it.

Make sure your complaints get documented and that you have a series of witnesses on your side. He may not be as dumb as he looks or acts.

What is the direction of prevailing winds? A nice load of pig sxxt to enhance your wife's garden or flower bed can do wonders... if you get my drift! Sounds like you have a rural setting where this is within your legal rights. ....

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Murf
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2005-05-31          111753

Ann, I think you've over-looked a few facts in the case at hand, as well as the one I related.

First, damages are probably the easiest (read cheapest) legal matter to persue. My land, your dirt, my estimate, your cheque, PERIOD.

Secondly, a golf course is not a company without feeling, a corporate monster not afraid of losing sleep. It is a mundane, quiet business that depends on public sentiment for it's very existance, it cannot afford to have a 'black eye' in the community. It is the sort of business that is purely in the 'not required' category of life, for most people anyways. A golf course with a bad reputation in the community is one without customers. I have seen, and worked on, many a course after they went bankrupt and changed hands because the owner and/or manager was jerk and people stopped going there.

My point was purely one of simple logic, the best way to get someone to stop doing something is to make them WANT to stop, or NOT do it in the first place.

That is how our entire legal system works, do something wrong, you will get punished. If you don't want punsihment don't do anything wrong.

Jerks like this don't quite understand the system, kind of like a puppy that is not yet house-broken. Just like a puppy, a few stern reminders usually gets the point across. As with dogs, peer pressure works even faster with people. When this jerk's wife gets wind of a potential lawsuit and all the expenses I'd be willing to bet she puts some real 'peer pressure' on him to sharpen up. If not, he will have some 'financial lessons' to learn.

Most people will readily take a lot of grief, and maybe a poke in the nose or worse pretty much in stride, but a hit in the wallet really seems to get their attention.

Best of luck. ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-05-31          111756

Yooper - I agree that this is his game (try to make me do something illegal). I made the mistake of saying something to him when he previously pushed brush and a burn barrel up against my fence. I guess he figured he'd get a larger reaction from me by piling dirt on the fence.

By my nature, I will not lose my cool. I am not a physical type but I do get angry when I see this stuff happen. I stay on my own property and I follow the law. I try to only use my property as necessary and not to annoy him. The problem is that I am always working on my property to make the place look nicer. My mere presence makes these people angry beyond belief. Also, the fact that his methods generally are not working with me is making him more angry day by day.

The question is how much more damage do I have to sustain with the cops continuing to tell me this is a civil matter?
Will he continue to dump dirt on my fence or "accidentally" start ramming through the fence into my newly planted trees?
I can't believe that people can dump dirt on your fence and then the cops tell you that mediation is the best course of action. I am supposed to make some sort of concession after people begin acting aggressively towards me?

That's why I will persue Murf's recommendations. It will take a while to get estimates, lawyers letter, etc. But I think when my family attorney visits the house and gets wind of this he will know how best to proceed. I do think that this guys is sensitive to cash outflow. Even if I never collect any money (a strong possibility) this guy has been studying the fence lately and I think he knows he might have stretched the limits here.
....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-05-31          111775

ncrunch32, have you ever read any of george hayduke's books, just go to this web site to check it out http://www.campusi.com/author_George_Hayduke.htm
It is for entertainment purposes only but the books are well worth the entertainment. I read one years ago. I pity the bad neighbor to this guy. It is usually the guy with the most to lose that gets put in the pinch, so maybe you could try the friendly Ann routine for public display and then make his life a miserable hell behind the scenes and where he will not likely blame you for his misfortune. If he does not know which fly bit him, he will not know which one to swat. ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-05-31          111778

Denwood - Ha Ha! I saw the website which triggered my wife to retrieve the book "The Art of Getting Even" by Gary Brodsky. My book is maybe a little more comical - I should look into your author more closely.

Anyway - I continue to not retaliate, I have just left the dirt hanging on the fence. I spoke with my family attorney, he recommends I just keep recording events with my security camera and maybe get some audio when the guy taunts me. (I had told the neighbor I have 24 hour taped surveillance but I'm not sure he believes me since I have never given anyone my tapes.)

The lawyer recommends I NOT go for the police version of mediation since there I have no need to mediate anything. Getting public officials involved is a bad idea, I will continue to be a law abiding citizen and just watch and wait for this guy to really screw up. ....

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Iowafun
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2005-06-02          111860

I found this thread to be fascinating. It sucks to have a nice place that you love but only to have a real jerk neighbor. I agree with those who suggest taking the high road and not retaliating against his property. Now retaliating by submitting a bill/quote for fixing the blatent vandalism done with the dirt is a whole different manner. I personnaly like that option and would lean towards it myself.

But document everything. Keep records and make sure you are in the right. This guy does have connections so make sure you are in the right.

....

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ncrunch32
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2005-06-02          111865

Iowafun - what's really fascinating is that the police chief promised they would document these incidents on the police log (even told us that he told the neighbor he would document this stuff). My wife went down to the station yesterday to get a copy of the police log and there was nothing there about the dirt or antifreeze (2 separate incidents and pretty important to have on record).

Seems that someone is looking out for this guy. We have to sign a freedom of information document and wait 30 days to pull a log of anything they reported on us. I am afraid there will be things on the log I didn't do, and many things I reported that are missing. All of a sudden I am envisioning being handcuffed someday for no reason.

Maybe I am just getting paranoid.
....

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funchy
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-06-02          111867

It's good you're keeping records. The only thing I wanted to add is that you may need to add "video survelliance" signs (depending on state laws and where the camera is pointed)... otherwise the courts may make the videos inadmissable in court since you're violating his "privacy". Just a thought.

Hang in there. Maybe he'll find someone new to taunt when he sees he can't get a rise out of you. Best of luck! ....

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Murf
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2005-06-02          111868

If you are concerned about keeping the record straight be sure your video system records any police visits and have any officer present sign and write down his badge number on a 'visitor log' of your own.

It may be enough to rattle a few chains.

Best of luck. ....

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s chrand
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2005-06-03          111904

I agree with iowafan, retaliating isn't the way to go.
A good friend of mine had/has a very similar problem with his neighbor. Mostly malicious destruction and threats. My friend did the documented police visits and video surveillance. He took him to court and the judge agreed the guy was in the wrong and a basic jerk, but only told him to stop and said they should try to work it out. He got lucky though; the jerk was found dead in a known drug house a few weeks later. Now unfortunately his kids, about 10 and 14 are starting the same crap their father did. My friends house is now up for sale.
I sure hope your situation turns out better!
Good luck.
David
....

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Iowafun
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2005-06-03          111907

It seems fishy to me that the visits were missing from the police log. You may want to request a copy of the official police guidelines for enetring items into the log. They should have a formal written policy. Then if you video surveillance and documentation shows the policy is not being followed, then the entire police department can be held accountable. Ie: police chief can be in trouble and the state police can be called in to investigate the entire department.

I like the idea of getting the info they have on you and verifying it's accuracy. I also like the idea of starting your own log of the police visits to you. It's good to have badge numbers and names. Kinda puts the officer on the stop for being honest.

My first paragraph is pretty extreme and most likely you wouldn't go that route. But any reasonable judge would look at your documentation vs his statements and should side iwth you assuming he's not on the take. ....

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kyvette
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2005-06-03          111922

Ncrunch, I really feel for you. I have experienced bad neighbors but not to this extend.

Court cases are generally won by a term called "Preponderance of Evidence", in other words, the side with the best documented case wins.

I would definitely bring in the State Police or a Federal Marshall to work with your family attorney in gathering your evidence and advice on how to proceed.

Unfortunely, a lot of small town police departments are controlled by a powerful individual or family. Not so with the State boys and Feds.

One thing you might try, and it will contradict what your instinct and gut says. Send kindness their way, prepare a meal and take to them. Offer to mow his yard or help him cleanup his side of the fence. You never know what that act of kindness may bring.

Good luck and hang in there. Dave ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-06-03          111923

Thanks for the advice Kyvette - all has been quiet for a couple of days. I spoke with a second attorney here who said the best course of action may be to do nothing for the moment. Let this guy have his little victory - there is no serious monetary damage here (yet). I will, when I get a chance, ask the police to document their visits.

It is too soon for me to bake a cake. Maybe in the future. There could be more than meets the eye in terms of why these neighbors don't want me too close to their house. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-06-06          112003

When the going gets tough, the tough get going!! Where that sense of competition? Slam this guy!!!! Thats it NCrunch!! Put yer wife on line here! Lets give her some ideas on how to get even. HECK Wait a min. Get EVEN!! Hell lets get a head in this game. There are tons of things you can legally do that will piss him off. I think you need a bit of the ole NIKE slogan in you, "just do it!" Dont let these sissy's here soften you up! You want to lose???? Think of it this way, if you make his life soo miserable that he dont want to live next to you, maybe he will move and you will get a lovely blond headed sunbathing honey as a next door neighbor. I still say slam this dude. Be relentless, everyday come home and do something else to annoy him. Skunk scent, fox urine, coon urine. They all can be bought at your local hunting shack, Put em on rags when the wind is blowing his way. Water ballons filled with round up thrown at great distances over the line. Just think about it, push him till he does something really nasty to you. You will have it on tape, all he has is his word that you did something to him. A guy who cry's wolf all the time will lose any credibility law suit if all he has is, "Well, this is what I think he done to me" While you come into court with video tapes.
Then, you can do the worst thing you could imagine. Start doing things to you own property, and turn him in for it!
Is he married? This is an old trick from the police here where I live. Have a lady friend call a few times (when you know he is out and she is in) Call and ask for this guy? Have the lady say," What? Your his wife? He NEVER told me he was married!> I have a thousand ways to get this Pr--k. I say time to have some fun, beat him at his game and he wont want to play anymore! Let him whoop you, and expect to get your butt kicked by him everytime he has a bad day at work. Make him WANT to stop the games!
....

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grassgod
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2005-06-06          112005

ROTFLMAO.....out of all those idea's the call from the lady friend would do the most destruction!!!

Ncrunch - there is an old saying that has never failed since the begining of time..."what comes around, goes around." sit tight & watch nature take care of this guy. ....

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DennisCTB
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2005-06-06          112006

I think GrassGod is right. In that story I told about the guy next to me in my one year rental, my wife just told me that she bumped into some people from the old neighborhood and it turns out he had to move out shortly after our twelve month stay. I think he must have screwed up somewhere on his own.

Waiting him out may be the best thing for you also.

This reminds of a friend of mine who built a new home next to someone who was equally as nuts as your neighbor.

He was a cop and was giving my buddy a super hard time, property lines, calling the building dept... you name it. His place was an eye sore, yet he gave my friend a super hard time.

Months of grief go by. Then 12 months later a for sale sign goes up.

My friend wonders what happened, after thanking God for this blessing.

Well it turns out that he had an altercation with his superior officer a the station. So my friends neighbor was going into his commanders office after hours and pXXing on the floor on a regular basis. The stench was so bad they put cameras in there and they caught him in the act.

Bye Bye pension, bye bye neighbor. Given time this guy may screw up without your help. ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-06-07          112051

Broken, ha ha! No - this jerk is crazy enough to do the same back to me. All has been quiet on the neighbor front for the past few days. I hope it continues. Grassgod and Dennis, I agree. I have to keep it cool here and see what happens. I watered my trees tonight, was out there over the weekend. He taunts me but I don't reply. As long as it stays this way I am fine. I just don't want any more damage to my property. As my laywer recommended, I let him have this minor victory. If I put things in perspective I have already won the war.

I don't know if I explained this - but this guy (after he dug across my property line) applied for a variance to build a 2 story addition next to my back line. I fought it for 8 months at town hall, lost in a split vote after the board of appeals changed a member on the board, with 40 of 44 neighbors supporting me with a petition (other 4 were business men who didn't want to ruffle feathers). That is when I took control of my property and this neighbor then built his addition on the other end of the house.

So the addition went where I wanted it and I lost the battle but won the war. So I have to be willing to suffer some indignation. This is a small price to pay for the property value I saved. Hopefully this guy will get over it someday.

....

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kyvette
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2005-06-08          112089

Ncrunch, you are smart to set back and see what happens. From what you say this could escalate into something really serious. Violence begets violence. It's not worth risking jail time or making your wife a widow.

However, I do like Broken's suggestion about the girl friend calling the wife. ....

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tracer
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-06-12          112244

Greetings,
Get him asubscription to Nambla and Gay love. This can be done anonymously pay with a money order. That will get his wifes attention. Have the 2nd subsciption sent to him in care of his work address. Always fun. ....

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brokenarrow
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2005-07-15          113522

NCrunch
So whats the latest? I have been away for a while and it seems like all must have cooled off a bit?
I have to tell you about my 2 NEW neighbors! First of all my dad was my old neighbor, so I lost the best a person could ask for, so anything else is playing catch up.
My neighbor to the south was cool (the father), his wife never spoke to us in 8 years though. His kids were hell on wheels with out supervision. Yes the father was cool but in the sense that he cared about nothing! To the point of his yard, kids, wife and just about everything else stinking! They got divorced and my NEW neighbor moved in. A 50-ish year old guy with grown kids (out of the house) and a girlfriend. They are soo good I can't begin to tell you (So far anyway) I talk with them get along great and even look forward to seeing them outside just to say hi. They take care of the yard, been clearing and cleaning for the last month! I could not ask for much better. They NEW one to my north, is the one I sold my dads house to. She is single and a hotty (Man I hope my bride dont see this! LOL) Well she is what she is I guess? A divorce lawyer herself she is very quite and we seem to get along just fine. She is a very nice lady but she does have 2 large dogs that make a lot of noise when ever they hear any noise at all, (even thogu they are in the house you can still hear these chubacca's all they way in my house. I am sure this will be a future problem (after school starts this fall) But nothing I think that will be too bad. So all in all, I think I have faired very well with all the NEW movement going on in my hood!
Hope things have improved for you (although I think they probably have not).
Hey you know I was kidding about the real NASTY things to do to him. Although A few of them would be fun and maybe warrented? LOL ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-07-16          113530

Hiya Broken! Yeah - I think both the neighbor and us are trying to keep things cool - so there have been no major incidents. Only the usual - him staring at us through the woods, etc which we just to ignore. I have no plans get into another battle with him unless he damages something on my property. I'm sure things will get out of hand sometime soon. I am saving your ideas for the next time :)

Great news about your new neighbors. I have great neighbors on all other sides of me. One surprise - the nighbor on my west - always throught they were solid - are possibly getting divorced. This husband comes over the other day and tells me he has to choose between love and his 3 kids (8-12 years old)! I couldn't believe it. Found himself another chicky.

Then I go to meet a new neighbor that moved a few houses down from me. I walk up to the wife - shake her hand - and realize its a girl I once dated before I married my wife!! Don't worry - I am too old for any shenanigans. Oh how its a small world!! :) ....

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ncrunch32
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2005-08-20          115135

Just an update. No major problems with my neighbor since he dumped dirt on my fence (with his Kubota - Grrrrr). They called the police on my son one day at 9:45PM for having a pool party with 3 other kids, the volume was low but you can call the police if you hear anything. No big deal - the cops have become our friends. Also - my son leaves for college this coming week - no more kids at home. :)

He did act up tonight since we were outside walking around our house and watering trees. He doesn't like us even being outside or in their view. Later tonight he starts waving spotlights around inside the house as if he is going to point them on us - just to tease us. (The police informed him last time that he can't hold spotlights directly on us when we are in our yard.)

When he does this we usually go sit at a table in our back yard and have a drink (our back yards adjoin) and survey our property and his house. That is what they don't want - so his wife got him under control before it escalated. That's what we wanted her to do - so then we went to bed.

We want them to understand that if we are in our yard and they bother us - we will just be there longer or closer. It is amazing how thick they are and that its taken 3-4 years for them to just maybe start to understand our message. Unfortunately I know he will snap again sometime. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-08-20          115140

Ncrunch32 -
Ever think about going ahead & installing that 8' stockade fence? I installed one on my rental income property due to a nuisance neighbor & it did the job. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-08-20          115145

Grassgod, my neighbor has the variance for the 8 foot fence, I don't (6 foot max height here). I could apply for one but instead I have planted lots of 6 foot (and larger) skyrockets, Thuja pines, poplars, maples, blue spruce along the line. May the best trees win!

Due to the lay of the land an 8 foot fence would only help if I was walking right next to the fence. The property line is in the low spot between our houses. I figure in about 5 years I will have pretty good privacy from the trees. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-08-20          115147

I see, are you done planting in that area? If not consider Concolour Pine's, they grow really fast & are nice & dense. ....

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