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kthompson
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2009-02-23          160536

I need to move a few thousand yards of dirt. Distance will be from about 100 feet to about 400 yards. Have considered buying an old dump truck or a dump trailer. Small old dump trucks are for sale all over the place now for 2 to $3,000. Dump trailers will cost 2 0r 3 times as much but less service issues I think. Will not be used on road, off road totally.
Suggestions?


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Murf
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2009-02-23          160538

Ken, as I see it there's pro's and con's to both, here's my $0.02 worth.

A trailer requires little in the way of upkeep, can be used on-road and for other things (firewood, mulch, etc.) but is limited in capacity compared to a dump truck. If you are loading it with a smaller machine, a trailer is usually a lot lower to lift the dirt into. Normally a trailer is harder to haul off-road and less 'landscape friendly' than a dump truck.

A dump truck might be a repair monster, but will haul a LOT more per load. A dump truck will move easier and unload a lot faster than a trailer will. It might be a height challenge for a smaller loader or excavator though.

Have you considered a hybrid alternative such as an articulated dump wagon or drop-bottom dirt pan behind a bigger tractor?

We use this method a LOT, it can be as cheap or cheaper than a dump truck, and will allow you to utilize existing equipment such as a tractor instead of buying new stuff. It is also far more productive than a trailer is.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-23          160540

Your 2 cents is always welcomed. Not familar with the dump wagon and only little with drop bottom pan. Had thought on pan and felt not best option. Have piles of dirt that run from about 4 to 6 feet high that excavator will be sitting on to load so height should not be issue. But if I want to load the stumps and such then different story. In looking at the lay out it is almost a straight line and with dump truck to me looks like I can drive forward and load and then back up and dump and then drive forward to load. Where trailer will require circle to turn in and not as easy to back if need be. ....

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auerbach
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2009-02-23          160541

If the dirt-carrier will ever be used ON-road, better look into the cost of licencing, insuring, inspecting, and maintaining and fueling a truck as opposed to a trailer. And a triple-axle trailer can carry more weight than a S-A truck. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-23          160542

But, with 3 axles how large of circle does it take to turn around in?

....

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Murf
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2009-02-23          160543

Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 160541
A triple-axle trailer can carry more weight than a S-A truck.


I'm not sure about that neighbour.

My little S/A dump at the farm has a 12k front axle, and a 23k rear axle for a total GVWR of 35k pounds. It has a curb weight of 12k pounds, so it has a 'street legal' capacity of ~23k pounds or 11.5 tons. Notice I said 'street legal', I've had 15 or 16 tons on it many times with no problem at all.

The heaviest tri-axle suspension I've seen on a trailer was 7k axles, for a GVWR of 21k pounds. A tri-axle dump trailer that size weighs 4k pounds, so that leaves a 'street legal' capacity of 17k pounds, or 8.5 tons.

Dump truck 11.5 tons, trailer 8.5 tons, or a little less than 75% of the capacity.

Ken, the usual 'farm use' dump wagon is a home-brewed hybrid. Usually it is made by taking a S/A dump truck body, mounting it on the back half of a 5 ton truck frame that has a 5th wheel hitch where the cab should have been were it a truck still, and it's pulled behind a farm tractor by means of a 'jeep', 'joe-dog' or 'converter' depending on which term you prefer. The dump hoist is powered by a PTO-driven pump, a gas engine on the tongue, or the tractor itself.

Best of luck. ....

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auerbach
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2009-02-23          160547

A trailer can hold as much as a truck if you agree that it would be better to overload a trailer by the same proportion. And you could swing a triple around almost in its own length. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-23          160548

Kenny, just get a 3- or 4-yard loader and use it to dig, haul and spread all in one cycle. You'll end up wearing out that lil' mini-ex. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-24          160555

EW, talked to a rental company here who has large commerical tire FEL. Bucket is about 2 yds if memory is correct. They said the piles would have to be dug and repiled for it. Would a skidsteer be different? With tracks?

Auerbach, never would have thought you could turn a 3 axle that tight.

Murf, had thought on getting old dup truck with dump working and doing as you said. But so far have not come across such.

I am considering building a small dump trailer. Have about half of what is needed in materials from a salvage tobacco harvestor. Do plan to run it off of tractor hyd. ....

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hardwood
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2009-02-24          160559

Being you say "Thousands" of yards of dirt with distance no farther than you mention I'd have to agree with EW and rent a big loader. I've did it both ways, with my loader and trailer and with the loader only. I probably moved 5-600 yd. of fill last summer from a borrow pit to the building site roughly 5-600 ft. with the 4310 and the 430 loader with a 73 in. bucket. I wouldn't have a clue how many trips I made, but it gave me something to do for a big couple weeks. I did borrow a single axle flatbed dump traier with a hydraulic hoist pulled by one of my "H" Farmalls that I would load with probably two or three yards at the very most then go from the loader to the H, go dump it then back for another round. I had trouble backing the trailer into where I wanted dump so I had to move the dirt with the loader again, so I shucked that idea and returned the trailer. Frank. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-24          160560

Frank, I am concerned, seriously. You agreeing with Jeff? Did you bump your head? Has the swelling gone down?

Using a loader had been my thought for months of work at the pond where all of this is going on. Then had rental company tell me what condition the dirt had to be in for their loader to scoope it up and said if I must repile so it would be soft then might as well load.

Will check with another rental company and see if they have a loader with tracks. ....

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hardwood
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2009-02-24          160570

KT; Yes, that was a tough one to agree with Jeff, but sometimes he does think straight, not real often but sometimes. If you have to have the soil loose before they will rent you a big loader then it must not be much of a loader. I was fortunate that the bottom of my borrow pit is big enough and reasonably level for me to use the boxblade to rip the soil loose. That made it lots easier for a small machine like mine to scoop it up. Working alone with my little Deere I felt like a big timer with no big machine nearby to compare it with. Frank. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-25          160588

Kenny anything with tracks will be way too slow.

Now I realize all you gots is time on your hands. But unless your are OCD, even you will get bored of moving that much dirt wih a little machine/truck/trailer.

And I know Yankees have a different way of looking at things---like work--and time frames--but maybe now is time for a change. tehehehe

Get a big 4-yard loader or bigger, buddy.

If you need to loosen the soil start at the top and drive downward. Gravity will will greatly increase time, fuel economy, and traction. Either back up the pile or circle back around and do it again.

A skid steer will be slow--mine is a 2-speed and I can only do slightly less than 15 MPH. And you'd only get about a yard in a load anyway.

My skid steer uses nearly 3 gal an hour--a big loader not quite double that---however, comparatively my skid steer would be using 4 times the fuel, and 4-5 times the time.

I can git outta this cold State (note capital s) and be there in about 2 days. I'll bring my skid steer, tracks and dirt bucket. Will (not) work for food. And I'd have to get prevailing rates for my region ($75 per hour)---but don't worry, just raise your clients' insurance premiums! :0 ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-25          160597

EW and Frank

I don't mind agreeing with Frank but he may be right here. You are correct. Carve it in a tree.

The idea of using gravity to help makes good sense. Who told you that? As to working for food...it would be yes had you ever tasted my wife or her Mama's cooking. Thanks for the offer, have some locals who are willing to work a little less costly. Just after then come back from hog and gator hunting and cleaning the coons and possums. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-25          160604

Kenny my dear redneck friend---that 'possum/gator sounds like a lot of messy, stinky work. Should you be making vittles that far off from "Saturday-nite bath night"?

Don't want my services, eh?

Reminds me of when a buddy who runs a huge local paving/trucking company went to the Army Corp of Engineers in New Orleans right after Katrina to pitch his company hauling dirt to the levies. He said he could have 300 double-bottom (about 40 yards total) hauling trucks there in a week and could do the job in 30 days. They flat out told him he HAD to do it in 3 months. He thought they misunderstood him. So he repeated it--30 days, not 3 months. They knowingly nodded and again told him 3 months. He walked out. And you know what? 4 years later they're still not done.

But I'm jis' sayin' ya'all :)

Using gravity is like the story of the little boy pulling a chain around the neighborhood for hours on end:

After seeing this many times the neighborly old timer, we'll call Kenny, on his porch (or stoop as you call it) calls to the boy and asks, "Bo' why you pullin' that chain around?"

The boy stops and could not believe what he was hearing! He says, "Mista' you eva' try PUSHING one?"

Or how 'bout the boy that was looking for a his lost quarter under a street light on a dark night: a policeman stops and asks the little what he's doing.

The boy answers, "Sir, I lost my quarter down the street a ways where it's really dark."

The cop says, "But why you looking here?"

The boy answers, "There's no street light down there".

....

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kthompson
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2009-02-25          160607

Don't want my services, eh?


Nope, can't afford. Have a local company who will move the dirt for $3 per yard. They can move more than 25 yards an hour. That price was when diesel was still high so they may be down 25 to 50 cents by now per yard.

My son in law has told me today he wants to go with dump trailer. He was the one who wanted to hire the $3 per yard people and or rent dozier to push it. He said he would buy the trailer and since moving the dirt it is long term for him, makes sense.
....

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Murf
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2009-02-25          160612

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 160607
Have a local company who will move the dirt for $3 per yard. They can move more than 25 yards an hour.


Ken, me thinks you got some wires crossed in there some where.

A small single axle dump truck will hold 5 yards, a big dump truck 20 yards of material.

If my guys can't load 125 dump trucks a day someone is asleep. If you did only 100 loads, and got only 15 yards in per load, that is still 1,500 yards of material a DAY.

As for the $3/yard, I'd rent men & equipment down there and still do it for half that.

Let me know when you want to start. ;)

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-25          160615

Boy, must have had a brain freeze with my last post Murf.

Even mispelled EW, eh!

Was trying to let ole Jeff know for his $75 per hour fee could get more dirt moved at $3 per yard than it seemed he was saying he would.

Are you serious you could move dirt for $1.50 per yard? If so we need to price more. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-25          160621

Kenny I should have reread your original post; I thought you told me you had a lot more than 1500 yards---like 15 thousand--- where did you come up with that amount?

(A typical basement for a home is about 300-500 cubic yards) So you're talking the equivalent of three homes' basements?

Even at 1500 yards, and 20-yard trucks that's only 75 loads. Even if you used one truck and had a cycle time of 15 minutes that's less than 19 hours.

"Thinking outloud" here, so we'll see how the numbers shake out (or oot as Murf would say)

($3 per yard x 1500 yards = $4500 divided by 19 hours = $236 per hour JUST FOR LOADING and HAULING)---locals here get $75 an hour for a 40-yard double-bottom, and $80 an hour for a loader like a backhoe--4-yard loaders about $125-$150 an hour.

($1.50 per yard x 1500 yards = $2250 divided by 19 hours = $119 per hour JUST FOR LOADING and HAULING)

Makes my $75 an hour seem cheap, eh? tehehe

Of course I'd be making 1500 trips with ~6 minute cycle time. (1500 trips would take about 150 hours.

Using the "other" guys' prices:
$4500 divided by 150 hours = $30 an hour
$2250 divided by 150 hours = $15 an hour

If I charged my regular rate of $75 an hour x 150 hours = $11,250, or a couple boat payments! I'M READY TO ROLL!! ....

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DRankin
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2009-02-26          160630

I'm a little late to this conversation so I will add just one thought.

My 2 axle, 7000 GVW dump trailer is the best thing I ever bought and would be the last piece of equipment I ever get rid of. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-26          160634

DR, is that the trailer with Big Red on it?

EW, most would not think our Coastal Plains had any roll to them. We have an yard that has at least a 6 foot drop on one side. It is at least 100 feet by 100 feet that we want to level off to the yard grade. Realize that is more than 1500 yards and also know there is more than 100 feet each direction we want to raise in grade, but we have some large trees we must grade down to so not to loose them. We probably will end up moving more like 2,500 to 3,000 yards. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-26          160645

Kenny if you "loose" a tree, then it will fall over. Then you "lose" it.

3000 yards...with a dump trailer. Hmmmmmm. That will be 4 boat payments!

Again, a yard of dirt can weigh as much as 3,000 lb.. So if you buy a dump trailer, be sure to subtract the weight of the trailer (my 12,500 GVW 4-yard weighs 2,500 lb., meaning I can haul 10,000 lb.--about 3.5 yards). You're looking at 600 trips at 5 yards! I hope you don't paln on using a pickup, 'cause it's gonna wipe out an automatic tranny. ....

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hardwood
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2009-02-27          160650

OK now EW; In all the time you guys have wasted figuring the cubic yards, cost per load and all that hash I could have had the dirt moved with my GEAR DRIVE baby Deere. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-27          160651

Franky--you betta' pinch yourself 'cause you're DREAMING! ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-27          160655

Hurray! Hardwood and EW are back to normal!

EW, planned to pull trailer with tractor.

This has gone back and forth here (not web site). This was being done to increase the area for one of my daughters and her husband to build on. Area they wanted to build on for years. Very pretty with pond behind it, old barn and then hardwooods. My s-i-l is not sure HOW he wants to move the dirt. OK, he works for the government dealing with such work and contractors..so he knows all the advantages of each. For some reason he seems to prefer having the dirt pushed with dozier. I can see that for it is basically a straight line. But it is today, will hire it all done; last week, I will rent a dozier and do it myself, guess we all hit some decisions for one reason or the other we just don't want to pull the trigger on.

EW, I did loose the tree and then did not lose it! Still have to loose it more and pull and tug and it finally fell over. But still had the tree but it is in burn pile so I might yet lose it. Thank you for learning me this. :)
....

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DRankin
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2009-02-27          160659

"DR, is that the trailer with Big Red on it? "

Yup. It sure can do a wide variety of tasks, including such mundane things like moving furniture. Cover it with a tarp and you can even move stuff in wet weather. ....

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auerbach
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2009-02-27          160664

Sharp-turning a multi-axle? For an ocean-going freighter to turn 180 (without side-slipping or skidding) would take a mile. But at rest, push a tug against either end and it will turn in a bit more than its own length. A push or pull at both ends would rotate it within its own length. ....

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Murf
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2009-02-27          160666

I'm not convinced about that, loaded or empty.

I have several tri-axle trailers, including the one shown in my picture # 19.

If I try to turn it fairly sharp, not only does BOTH the front and rear tire drag badly, because it's trying to pivot on the center tire, but if one of them is low on air it'll nearly pull it right off the bead.

It WILL turn, but boy does it chew up the ground doing it, especially loaded.

No matter how you slice it, the turning radius of a second or third axle will be quite different, and increasingly so as the radius diminishes, than the others.

If for instance, you look at that tri-axle of mine, the distance between each of those tires, center-to-center, is ~36" for a total spread of ~72" from the contact point of the first tire, to the contact point of the last tire. No matter which tire forms the pivot point there will always be no less than a 6'total difference in the amount those tires would need to travel to 'rotate it within its own length'.

Now if it was empty, and you could get it up on one axle, that would be a different story.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-27          160671

A dozer? Are you c-r-a-z-y? Oh that's right--s-i-l works for the gubbermint.

Kenny, again, ANYTHING on tracks---slow.

A dozer to MOVE 3,000 yards of dirt 400 yards? Plain stupifying silly. THERE. I said it :)

What does the s-i-l figure a dozer will move per cycle? My Caterpillar book shows even with a "U" (universal blade) made for "moving" dirt lik when cuytting a filling huge tracts of lend, you would have to have ATLEAST a D6 dozer---like what you see on huge construction sites or at a landfill, which is going to run about $1500 a day plus, plus, plus, plus.

That's like guys I know who insist a dozer is the best way to dig a pond. Yeah right. It is A way, but not the BEST way. I had a customer insist on having me (him) rent a D4 dozer and enlarge his pond. After three days, we (I) gave up and we got an excavator with a 3-yard bucket and it still took another three days.

Have you even figured the cost of fuel for any scenario? ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-27          160673

EW, cost of fuel? Not sure we have done that or not. If Hardwood thinks there has been a lot of numbers on the site he would be amazed at all I have been through with my s-i-l. At to dozier, have same opinion but for me it is an opinion. Even last Saturday that was his preference when I ask some of those questions I got...I don't know except and who is going to run it. And when I asked how good an operator he was to rent one there was no firm answer. :-)
The only real reason I can understand a dozier is for grading of the moved dirt and the area it is being moved from.

I hope and pray each of you have a wonderful weekend. May God shine on you and have the sky full of sun for you as you will want to work or play out side. May your stocks go up and your taxes come down. God Bless. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-27          160679

A dozer isn't going to give you the compaction you need compared to rubber tired "anything".

You can grade just as well using a 4-yard loader with the bucket fully dumped forward, or even backward. I moved and graded three acres using a backhoe that way. When I got there ist was just a bunch of piles everywhere. It was part of a 16-acre backfill that took 50,000 yards---and that was done with the dozer a D4--and seemed to take me forever and one day. ....

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hardwood
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2009-02-27          160680

Kenny, have you looked out the window today? That was me with the baby Deere who moved the dirt while you and EW were discussing all the arithmetic etc. I've always pushed snow for cookies, but a dirt job will mean some home cooked rabbit or something like that. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-02-27          160681

Well Franky, if it's wabbit yer willing to work for...do I have some work for you! ....

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Murf
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2009-03-02          160726

Frank, now I know what to do with all the rabbits my dogs get me, I can only eat so many myself, the little lady doesn't want any part of them, literally!!

They do a real neat job of it too, a quick snap of the neck.

I got a half a pot of stew left now in the freezer, lots of onion and some rosemary, yumm!!!

Lots of homemade biscuits to for soaking up the recipe.

When should I expect you?

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-02          160739

Hardwood, if you want some seat time; will pay for fuel, food and warm bed and shower.

Hey got it, have a Tom Sawyer or was it Huck Finn contest. Give a $2,000 prize to the person who can move the most dirt in 8 hours and only charge $150 entrance fee but must have at least 12 to enter and pay fee. On top of that some cable channel may want to video it and run serious on dirt movers. Better be careful, they might come from Michigan for this dandy. Which would be ok if they just go back real soon. =) ....

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hardwood
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2009-03-02          160741

Murf, that rabbit stew does sound good but I'd really rather come back to Canada in August or September when it's warmer and them big skeeters are already fattened up.

Kenny, we had our first building implosion, or how ever you would spell it in our nearby bigger town last weekend. Drew quite a crowd, the TV station had it on live, (we are easily entertained out here). Maybe those guys that are good with the dinamite could just blow the dirt to where you kinda want it. Spring is here!!! Frank. ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-03          160747

Frank, getting rid of dirt is not as hard as getting it somewhere else but that is how they did some ditches here years ago. Never saw one while being done but they were the ones with no piles around them. Easy to tell.

Here, they prefer excavators for telling them down but then they normally are only one or two stories tall. Now if ole Jeffrey were to tell it, they would be oh 46 to 64 stories tall and he pulled it over with his NH and loaded with his ND skidsteer.

....

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hardwood
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2009-03-03          160750

Kenny; The part of our county I grew up is is locally known as the "Big Slew" It laid since creation being non farmable because of the lack of drainage. I don't remember seeing this done but my Father was there when shortly after WW2 they "Blew" drainage ditches with dinamite so that drain tile could be outleted into them. I do remember that there were no berms originally but now they have been redug two or three times since and the berms are sometimes on both sides.
Our local implosion, (I must have spelled it right or EW would have corrected me), was a six story brick dormitory built in the 40's. I don't know why they tore it down. Our son who spent several years in Europe said a building built in the 1840's let alone the 1940's would be far too new to tear down. ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-03          160767

Frank, I am amazed what we tear down that in other parts of the world would be considered great. Local girl was guest of the Obama's for his State of the Union speech for she had complained about the condition of her school which is about 60 miles from here. Maybe she is right but there are so many great buildings all over this country older it is just politics. local and nationally.

As to spelling are you watching ole Jeff, his fingers are not with his eyes all the time lately either. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-03          160769

Kenny and Vrank: IF I had a feelings, they'd be hurt. :(

Kenny: Yes I'm here. And by the way what is a "ND"--I do have NH. Is a ND a New Deere? Or maybe a New Dabota?

Frank: Yes you spelled "implosion" correctly, so need to chime in.

Kenny: Me thinks rednecks---errr...southerners are the original "Green people" as in recyling. Down sout' on the Coast I saw every manner of recycling down there. It's like it's ingrained in them. Even things that shouldn't be recycled were---like cinder blocks used to support homes that had been submerged under 28' of salt water. The salt water dissolves the components and they fall apart. BUT they gotta stack em' up everywhere. And house bricks too---they're like GOLD. Are regular bricks not common there that they are held in such high esteem? What am I saying! These are the same people that will give you a $2000 fine for trimming a Live Oak--so instead of trimming the tree for traffic to pass they instead nail a metal sign that shows the height clearance! The lowest one I saw was in Oceansprings and was 7-3". SO if you had a van with a luggage rack you better park it and walk home. ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-11          160988

As this moment in time:
Got price from two contractors. Have decided to give it a try on our own. Have a friend who is "loaning" me a small dump truck. Hope to at least do test run on this next Saturday. If it makes me think of EW runing in circles, dog it, will not be realy circles more like loops, may go to contractor. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-11          160998

Oh Kenny the Great Waffler--jis' cut the guy a check will ya? And go have a donut.

It only adds insult to injury (yours) when the contractor sees that you gave up after one afternoon. PLUS you're in it for at least ONE favor to trial run the dump truck---and you know he's gonna expect it FILLED UP when you return it (or if you're like MY (former) friends--it'll be returned EMPTY).

Aaaaght! I feel a Visa/MC commercial coming on...

One dump truck favor: $200.

Time lost from other activities: $500.

Fixing a flat tire: $125.


Telling your TP friends they were right: PRICELESS.



Geeze--what I would give to be there to see THAT---the passing of the Torch! Kinda...brings...a tear to m' eye. (sniffle)
I'm getting choked up. Gotta ...go.

(Wringing my hands in patient and confident expectation)Oooooh maaaan! Can't wait 'til Saturday nite when Kenny logs in! ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-12          161004

EW, you are partly right. But the loaning of the dump truck is replayment on favors. At same time there are a few I have loaned to and one have never but would in a heart beat and that is him.

Not worried about insult there if the effort proves greater than our ability. Not that prideful, hey call you interent friend don't I? Rain in forcast here to begin tomorrow and then 6 days per the weather channel. If that happens and is as much as 1/2 per day, the moving of dirt will slip back and the moving of mud will slip forward. Now where are those turf tires? ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-12          161010

"hey call you interent friend don't I"

Kenny I need translation.

I think you mean "internet"? Yes? ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-12          161014

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161010
"hey call you interent friend don't I"Kenny I need translation. I think you mean "internet"? Yes?


You are correct. Hey EW, Michigan and SC were in same sentence in news here yesterday. Only state with higher unemployment than SC was Michigan. I have my thoughts but better not share. ....

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Paul161
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2009-03-15          161071

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 160536
I need to move a few thousand yards of dirt. Distance will be from about 100 feet to about 400 yards. Have considered buying an old dump truck or a dump trailer. Small old dump trucks are for sale all over the place now for 2 to $3,000. Dump trailers will cost 2 0r 3 times as much but less service issues I think. Will not be used on road, off road totally. Suggestions?


Read your article with interest. I retired from 40 years in the construction business. The pull behind dump trailer requires a very heavy tractor to pull it. Not when empty, but when full. When you load it up with dirt, it's very hard to turn unless you have a tractor that weighs more than the trailer, otherwise you'll be spinning your wheels. I'd go for an old dump truck. I think you'll be more happy. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-15          161072

Paul, the weight of the tractor has nothing to do with the ability to pull something. Look at a locomotive, or the truck used to move huge aircraft at airports. Or a semi tractor pulling a steel carrier.

I pulled my 5-yd dump trailer over-flowing with moist sand and concrete chunks--likely 6-yd worth--just in load weight that had to be 15,000 lb. PLUS the 2,500 lb. the trailer weighs.

And I pulled it with a 33HP HST CUT--and that was in 3rd range--the highest range. Towed it for over a mile and half, on gravel, and up hills. Now, it must be said that BRAKING was a bit harrowing--but having 4WD and HST made that easy work too.

And on the Gulf Coast after the hurricane I was moving FEMA trailers mired in mud with this same tractor. But all I did there was use the cutting brakes for steering. One trailer a 30' with a big slideout the owner told me he was struggling to move it with his GM 2500 Avalanche. I hooked onto it and moved it like it wasn't even connected. The owner's jaw literally dropped and he stomped away that he truck couldn't do it.

And down on the beach some woman drove her Taurus loaded with 6 family members each of which had to be 300lb. and got it stuck. I hooked onto it and didn't even spin a tire, nor brought the engine above idle. ....

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hardwood
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2009-03-15          161078

A friend of mine does the tractor pull thing in Arizona with an old WD Allis. There they use an electronic scale between the tractor drawbar and the hitch of the skid to determine the winner by the percentage of pull the tractor provides above the weigth to the tractor. Example, tractor weighs 5000 lb. it pulls 8500 lb. on the scale, it puled 1.7 times it's own weight.
OK now EW, let's say you had a GEAR DRIVE Deere you could have pulled two Taurus cars full of fat people. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-15          161079

But there was only ONE Taurus with fat people. hahaha

Gear-drive, schmeerdrive--I tell ya. You have much more control and start-out torque with a HST. Gear drives are for guys who just want to put it in gear and ride the clutch. ....

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DRankin
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2009-03-15          161091

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 161079
I tell ya. You have much more control and start-out torque with a HST.


Sorry. Not buying that one. I have had two nearly identical models, a 4100 Gear and a 4115 HST.

I frequently get the HST into situations where it refuses to go...... like yasterday........ the HST stalled when I tried to push it up a 10-12 inch step into the shed with a bucket load of wood pellets. It just groaned and sat there.

I used to put the 4100 Gear in low/low and drive it up the front steps with a load of firewood. It never hesitated or even spun the wheels.

The HST is better for ease of use and precise maneuvering around buildings and such, but the gear tranny put way more controllable and usable power on the ground. ....

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hardwood
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2009-03-16          161096

Hey, I got one guy on my side, I drove Hydro tractors before EW was old enough to drive a tircycle, didn't like them then and still don't. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-03-16          161102

I'm wondering if the iMatch technology in the JD eHydros would overcome the problem that Mark described. That said, there's no denying the ~10% power loss that comes with an HST.
....

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Murf
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2009-03-16          161111

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

The ONLY reason I have a bunch of HST tractors is because it's a condition of the contracts we have. Period.

If it were up to me I'd have nothing but GST units, like I used to have.


Best of luck.

....

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kthompson
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2009-03-16          161118

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul161 | view 161071
Read your article with interest. I retired from 40 years in the construction business. The pull behind dump trailer requires a very heavy tractor to pull it. Not when empty, but when full. When you load it up with dirt, it's very hard to turn unless you have a tractor that weighs more than the trailer, otherwise you'll be spinning your wheels. I'd go for an old dump truck. I think you'll be more happy.


Thanks Paul, that was one reason I preferred the dump truck to leave my bigger tractor for blade work as the dirt is dumped. ....

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AlbertaDan
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2009-03-22          161308

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 160536
I need to move a few thousand yards of dirt. Distance will be from about 100 feet to about 400 yards. Have considered buying an old dump truck or a dump trailer. Small old dump trucks are for sale all over the place now for 2 to $3,000. Dump trailers will cost 2 0r 3 times as much but less service issues I think. Will not be used on road, off road totally. Suggestions?


Up here in Northern Alberta we move mountains of dirt. We use mostly trucks and shovels for long distances, that is a few miles. For short distances we use graders and rubber tire dozers. I will say the size up here is extreme but from what have read you're best bet is a rubber tire loader. A contractor with a something about the size of a 824H should have it moved and levelled in a couple of days, leaving you to enjoy to spend time with the missus. An 824H will move about 9-10 yds at a time. They turn around a lot easier than a truck and trailer. And will both level and move dirt. They are not as extreme as we have up here but they should be more than adequate to do the job. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-22          161318

Alberta--I agree and have been pushing for the same type of machine, maybe not so big. That said, we being nort'ners and having to deal with the elements we have a sense of urgency. Kenny---my brother from a different mother---being who/what he is (not-nort'ner), and since the weather is nice all year round there (read: it'll be there tomorrow, close the shop Martha we's goin' fishin')--that urgency just doesn't exist.

But I will predict that come one or two years from now he will still be asking for opinions on how to get started. Gotta love 'em. LOL ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-23          161326

AlbertaDan and EW thanks to both of you. I am telling this to offer some insights of urgency:
Picked up free dump truck loaner Saturday. Only took an hour and half. Had to talk about horses barn was built for, the good neighbor, what was going on in area. Oh, took about 2 minutes to train on dumping set up.
Drove it the four miles or so and dumped the debri in it.
Proceeded to load area. Engine died. Had to pull to start. FYI, excavator does not pull fast, but fast enough to crank a hot engine. :) Knew battery was weak but too weak to jump. Loaded and then I reaized why I like my HST trans as it choked off. Back to battery too weak to jump (without jumping vechile hooked up for say 20 minutes to boost it some) before starting. Was now running rough enough could not let it idle to remove jumper cables and move my pick up out of the way. So left loaded truck sit. Oh, did I tell it only took 3 trips about 3/4 miles with air tanks to fill the now flat tires since load was on them? Yes I know that should have been checked first but was using the EW theory there. (running in circles). So, about 3 hours have about 3 yards loaded. Nothing dumped. Told my son in law, well with tell you, this will take longer than I thought. But did we have fun, yes sir. Did we bog down, nope. Did we get hurt, nope. Did we tear up anything, not that we know of.

The real kicked, my son in law asked me about the battery if any special kind was required for the truck. Puzzled me as I said just one to fit. Well since it is a diesel did not know. To which I replied, diesel, it is just a rough running gas.

I hope this lifts some of your hearts. It was fun and life as it should be. No snow, no rain, not real cold (60 F), no snakes or insects. Just relaxing work by a pond.

Do I think we will end up hiring at least some of this dirt moving done or renting a big FEL, yep. But think of the stories we will have to tell when we do strike back up a fire to sit around.



....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-23          161345

Just when I though I heard EVERYTHING... ....

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kthompson
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2009-03-24          161355

EW, you have no idea how often I thought of you with that truck...it almost made me run in circles. But came very close. Got to pull the battery and have it tested to known if is only it or if starter solenoid is bad or both. ....

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Murf
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2009-03-24          161359

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 161326
So, about 3 hours have about 3 yards loaded. Nothing dumped.


I saw ole' Jeff offer to go down there, but I didn't realize he had actually gone. ;)

Or were able to achieve that kind of production without Deetwoit's help? LOL

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-03-24          161362

'scuse me? It would have been done by now. Ya know, if I had feelings--they'd be hurt. ....

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kthompson
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2009-07-06          163846

So as not to fully hijack another thread.

On the dirt moving it is going right well. As Murf told about an ole timer it is slow work but quicker than it was first made that way.

We ended up with a 6 by 10 dump trailer and probably loading about 2 yards per load. I know slow but making about 5 to 7 loads per hour now. Will get to where a couple of minutes longer per load as haul distance moves back. Hooked up tractor's remotes to do the dumping make a big differene in that cycle time and more control than the electric on the trailer. Son in law found a new looking used trailer for about 50% of new. New is now what it now looks like. You would think I let EW use it. :) Only bent both sides, snapped the tongue off and ate up the battery box but other than it looks real good. Hey it is in the woods what do you expect. At least so far to fix all those has not been bad and know enough to wait until it is loose from tractor to replace the battery box as the rear wheels is what got it. It would have been nice to had larger capacity but this has been a great match. Was working with on top of really wet dirt to begin with the trailer bogged a lot (low area and really wet spring). Have thought of Frank a good bit as to me are moving dirt slow and him and his FEL and his comment on he would be finished by the time EW and I decided on how many loads it would take. It is really going fast for the amount of time we have worked on it. Don't miss the point EW made about Southerners and our lack of rush with some things. Hey the low area was there before I was born and it is now at a grade if we were to stop it would be very good. But we want to bring it up from about 2 to 4 feet more to match the slope of the adjoining much higher yard. We have brought it up about that much already. Have really been surpised how well the dirt has packed with the tractors (one pulling trailer and one leveling dirt) and the trailer have packed the clay moved for base. Light weight blade does not want to cut it.

Really glad did not go with dump truck. It would have been a pain to back up to load and then back up to dump on both ends. Tractor and trailer have a much tighter turn radius (remember bent battery box). Had to begin backing up to load and dump until we got enough dirt moved to where we could circle on each end. Big big difference in time needed.



....

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hardwood
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2009-07-06          163848

KT:
The soil type near the house is just too heavy and black for garden use, great for corn, but not garden.
We have a sand hill probably 5-600 ft. from the garden, so this spring one bucket at a time with the 4310 I brought in enough sand to cover the garden plot 30X50?? about four-five inches deep, then tilled it in and ended up with a lot better garden soil.
Point being, probably 20 yd. of sand, I don't have a clue how many trips, but like Murf said, faster than God put it where it was, and I had fun doing it. ....

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kthompson
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2009-07-06          163852

When construction was running wide open here I noticed God had failed to put any dirt where man wanted it. Dirt from first area was hauled to second area. Dirt from second area hauled to third area. Dirt from third area was hauled to first area.

Frank, we are doing some of that mixing with clay and sandier dirt even now. ....

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kthompson
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2009-08-09          164804

Well a slight update...best I can figure we have only about 2,000 or so more yards to go. Dump trailer that holds about 2 1/2 yards without tailgate is little slow but making a round trip in 5 to 6 minutes. Just getting in full days of work is issue. If no more dirt is moved area is already much improved.

EW, still like the idea of the large FEL. SIL check recently and it seems such equipment is still demanding top dollar in the rental market. ....

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