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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-25          121691

My frustration with trying to solve an electrical question/problem is only exceeded by my dogged determination to find the correct answer. It is with increasing trepedation and frustration that I post at all concerning the problem. How do I know the submiter of an answer is qualified? Are most the replies based on local accepted practice by the inspectors rather than NEC regulations? Does the person replying really understand my question. Have they actually read and understood my posts. Some of the replies make me wonder if they read the entire post or even understood what I stated. A person should read and reread a post and understand it before they make a reply. Sometimes it is difficult to explain something that a photo would do in an instant, hence the expression, a photo is worth a thousand words and such it is. Well, I feel better now. I think I will go work on my tractor or something to calm me down. Maybe a beer or highball will help. Merry Christmas one and all.

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-12-25          121692

Interesting post. I would say I would look at the range and depth of the responses a poster has on a given subject. I would look at how many posts there are with varying positions and their depth. And I would consider the impact of using incorrect advice. The internet is a good place to get simple answers to simple questions but may not be the best way to get answers to complex questions.
....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-12-25          121693

As a follow-up to my last reply and on a more positive note, I will report that I managed to avoid a huge calamity on Christmas day using advice from the internet. Two days ago my 32 inch JVC TV wouldn't turn on after only about 7 years of use. It is a great TV - I thought I would be reluctantly buying a new one.

A simple search on the internet revealed that this was a recurring problem. After a trip to Radio Shack, my son soldered a new capacitor for $1.59 into the circuit board, and the TV works great again. $150 repair bill or, worse yet, cost of a new TV avoided! ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2005-12-25          121695

I pray that we all try and restrict our posts to our fields of expertise. Although I wired my own house and also have a feed to my barn from my panel, I am not sure it is done correct. The wire to the barn was there before the house fire. The former owner was an electician and owned his own company, but I have found numerous deficiancies.
I have read through the post in question and felt I was not qualified to respond. Look at my profile I am not an electician, an electrochemist, yes, but not an electrician. I can do it by the book and run the numbers, but I am reluctant to advise someone else.
I think you are also running up against the duplicity of electrical codes. What is to code in one state will not necessarily meet the next state or county. Some people are providing you their expert knowledge of the codes in their area, they don't necessarily know the requirements in another area.
If you talk to the journeymen in any trade, almost anyone has a story about a job they know was done right and would have been accepted by one inspector, but because the got another inspector, they had to rip it out and redo it. In cases like yours the best thing to do is consult the local inspector. They will normally provide a solution that they will accept, if they are reasonable people. ....

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ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 762 Kingston, NY
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2005-12-25          121697

I think that we are not only discussing different electrical codes in different states here. We have opinions of people with widely differing levels of experience and formal training. There is no objective way to judge the type of training/experience people have - you are on your own to discern and judge the information you receive on the internet. This problem compounded by the fact that there are different codes and conventions in different regions, and that there can be areas of gray in electrical theory as applied to real situations. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2005-12-25          121706

Part of the problem lies in the fact that there are five NEC standards for 50 states. Check http://www.squared.com/us/products/motor_control.nsf/unid/BEABDD3D2C1FB03C85256EBE0047F560/$file/mappage.htm and you'll see what I mean. When ASKING an electrical question, it would be smart to include your state. When RESPONDING to an electrical question, it would be smart to check the map to see which version code applies.

//greg// ....

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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-25          121713

five NEC standards for 50 states. Geez, no wonder I have recieved so many different answers. That is scary. I think I will contact the power co. lineman and meet with him this week and work something out. I feel sure he knows what he is talking about for this area.
I am new here but I will tell you this much. If I see a thread and I don't know the right answer I will only post an opinion and state that it is my opinion. I think some post an opinion as fact. I don't want my dog in a fight that I am not knowledgable about. I sure don't want someone mad at me for bad information. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2005-12-25          121716

It is important that the posters are complete with the details of a problem as well and may we hope all answers are right. ....

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steve4300
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 71 NH
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2005-12-25          121721

Sorry for any confusion we gave you, I am licenced in three states but I didn't know that there was 5 different versions of the NEC. Alot of time people have a hard time describing the correct way to do thier job, and that goes for any proffesion. I have tried to do many jobs around my house and have found out in the long run it is easier and cheaper to hire a quallified person to do the job for me. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-12-25          121723

I agree with Steve. For many questions there may only be one correct answer. In the case of using advice to try and solve a problem that could result in a very expensive fix (if the advice is wrong) I suggest the same as Steve. I usually ask a question here, then evaluate all responses.
I will then decide if any answers are the "one for me". Some questions may only have one correct answer but many many others may be solved by many ways to attack a problem.
Look at my hornet help question. (Not really a good comparison) but if I did use the wrong advice it could of stung me in my bee-hind!
To use advice from the internet for something that would be permanant may be very risky.
IMO To answer your question, you don't know but hopfully someone may shed some light on it and hopefully give you a great "fix" for the problem. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-12-27          121790

It's not just the internet. If you asked several local electricians you might get conflicting answers too. How would you know which one is right? When we built our house the electrician got in code disputes over seemingly simple things like acceptable panel location or what was and wasn't a kitchen counter. Not that my opinion was worth anything but to me the electricians arguments sounded more reasonable than the inspectors. ....

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jdcman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 103 washington
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2005-12-27          121801

The other point to keep clearly in mind is that there is the law of physics / nature, and then there’s the “rules” of process, i.e., the building codes. The laws of physics, for the most part, are deterministic. Unfortunately the same can’t be said about the building codes and laws of men.

In my opinion the building codes are established primarily to keep the masses from hurting themselves. Recall that old saying, “a little knowledge can be dangerous”.

I look at some of the electrical discussions that occur on these boards, and to be honest I have to ask myself why people would even attempt some of these projects based on their limited grasp of the fundamentals. Seems to me that they are just setting themselves up for trouble. The sad thing about it, is that their knowledge is so minimal that they tend to get “snookered” by the “flubby dust” and “mythical” stories that others post as responses.

Why not take a class, read some books --- do some research. The responsibility is on the individual asking the question to sort out the advise. But remember, one needs a basis or foundation for making such a determination
....

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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-29          121940

jdcman, how true. Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. When posting for facts it is hard to seperate the two if you have no fundalmental knowledge of the subject you are seeking info on. However, if you have read and asked about a subject from knowledgable people and still have questions it is no good to ask the same people the same question or question their answer. To seek answers on a forum is to set yourself up for a bad decision unless you are prepared to research the answers you get. Normally I resort to reference books or a qualified person. When something makes you question what you have read or been advised it is time to seek out other sources. All replys should not be taken as fact, but discussion will most always end up with the true facts coming out. Some refference books, such as electrical, plumbing and construction codes are hard to get without buying them. Most people will read and interpret something differently from each other. Hence supreme courts for interpreting the law. You also have to deal with the fact that many do not completely read a post or understand it when they reply. Nor do they edit their post for mistakes in spelling or logic. ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine
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2005-12-30          121990

I think the person asking the question needs to understand that they are getting what they pay for. I would not ask a home electrical, Plumbing, building, legal, etc. question on a compact tractor board thinking I was going to get a completely qualified answer. I would find a board/forum with that expertize and ask the ?? . We are here to discuss compact tractors and our experience with them. Think about it!

Also you need to remember, some of us are here to post as many times as we can to get the 5 tractors under our name showing that we are an expert:) I for one have been trying for 7-yrs now and it ain't happened (but maybe thats cause I don't know much):))

David
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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2006-01-03          122176

Yes, I posted it on an electrical board and got much the same answers untill the mod. came on and posted the NEC rule to clear it up so as to not give false info. Anyway, I have the parts and will put in the ground rod at the pole barn and the home and shop/garage are protected according to code. Alls well that ends well as they say. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-01-03          122183

ncrunch

You mentioned in this thread about a problem with a JVC tv. Can you tell me where to find that info? My dtr has one that sounded just like your experience.

Thank you, kt
....

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