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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-04-17          83420

Hello, my name is Patrick, I live in Michigan. I like many wanted a tractor for use on my horse farm, but didnt want to pay the price for a tractor from the major companies so I bought a brand new lenar tractor. Well, that was when my trouble started because in a period of 6 months, I have had a total of 4 of these POS. The dealer was about 120 miles from me, and the first tractor started to have an engine knock right after we loaded it on my trailer. The dealer said no problem, I will give you a new one, come back next week. Well he did give me a new one, and that one lasted a total of about 36 hrs because it blew 3 hydraulic hoses befor he came to pick it up and replace it with another new one. The one he dropped off to me broke in half at the transmission housing at about 40 hrs. So here he comes again with a new one. That one wouldnt go and still doesnt go into four wheel drive, plus it has a major oil leak and hydraulic leaks. And are you ready for this, it only has 36 hrs on it!!!!! Now I am stuck with this POS because he is out of business, no warranty, and the brand new warranty I have from FAIL SAFE was a sensless buy because no one will work on the tractor. There is a dealer in Memphis that said he will work on it, just bring it with me the next time I come to Tennessee. IF I had this to do over again, I would have bought me a shovel or a tractor from a major company. I know, you get what you pay for, but this is rediculous. None of the tractors worked the way they should have, they all had miss aligned prox switches for the tail lights, all had some sort of oil leak or hydraulic leak. Chinese tractors need to stay in China in the rice fields, they can not handle the hard american soil.

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mscott6799
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-04-17          83425

Is'nt this the chinese tractor thats supposed to have Ford backing and QC better then Jinma? Heck I beat my Jinma 354 up and down 45 degree hillsides and haven't had any problems but minor leaks for over a year. ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-04-17          83428

45 degree's,surely you gest!!
What a sad story, Take that
boat anchor down and trade it
asap,stop the bleeding!! ....

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Harryg
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 43 Upstate, New York
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2004-04-17          83429

Patrick, with all due respect it sounds like you have a bias toward China tractors. I regret your experiences were much less than you expected but there are many of us and I am one of them that purchased a China tractor and have had only good luck with it. I am a mechanic for 30 years and have worked on just about everything from cars, trucks, heavy equipment, etc, and they are all flawed somewhere as they are made by man, and man in nature, is flawed. If you state there are issues with China tractors I would wholeheartly agree, but these are not major instances, but more isolated. I for one could not justify spending 12K for what I spent on my 224, which was about 5300. Suits my needs perfectly and I do not baby it. I do not wish to start a bashing forum as I'm sure the moderators of Tractorpoint want neither. If we stick to facts as per problems/failures we let others make their own opine without verbage not conducive to the post.
Regards, Harry G ....

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mscott6799
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2004-04-17          83430

grinder
Not a gest just fact! ....

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edward_dugas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 24 ohio
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2004-04-17          83439

With all due respect, Patrick made his point four Lenar 274's have died a sudden death, including splitting in half. I have owned and worked on tractors since 1972 and have never had or heard of such a fiasco. Presently own a Jinma 304, assembled from a crate, and love it. Sometimes you don't get what you paid for and in this instance Patrick didn't. ....

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Lenarguy
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2004-04-17          83456

Patrick,
I am sorry to hear about your misfortune! I hope I can be of some help. If the tractor will not go into four-wheel drive, will the lever to engage the four-wheel drive move? Do you have a FEL on the tractor? ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-04-17          83461

Patrick your problem sounds like a serious case of dealer-itis. The probability of a single customer getting four consecutive lemons from the factory - is very very low. I'd be more inclined to say the problems you describe came from shoddy assembly work at the dealership.

As for the 2wd/4wd lever, roll a front wheel an inch or two in both directions -- to create a mild rocking action - while applying pressure to the lever. If that works, thinner oil in the transmission/transfer case should eventually loosen up a "sticky" lever

//greg// ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2004-04-18          83483

I retract my comment. Sorry, but these stories really tick
me off.
doesn't matter if it is a tractor,a car or some crap toy for my kid from Wally World. ....

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greg_g
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2004-04-18          83488

Further to the lever thing Patrick: my current JM254 did the same thing for a while. My guess was that the thick Chinese motor oil that comes from the factory deposited a load of metal shavings on that lever's pivot point.

Once the rocking trick confirmed that the lever would actually shift, I drained the transmission/transfer case - and gave it a GOOD flushing with kerosene. Drained and refilled with a 75W90 non-foaming gear oil, and the 2wd/4wd shift lever has worked fine ever since.

//greg// ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-04-19          83588

yes, this is the tractor that is owned partially by ford. That is one of the reasons that I bought it. To be honest, some of the problems may have resulted due to what the dealer did or didnt do. Still, a new tractor should be a hassle free machine that you shouldnt have to wonder if you can use it through a tank of fuel without a break down. I have lost all confidence in this tractor. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-04-19          83594

Hello, you must think that I am being unfair to forign tractors. In reality, I am just posting the problems that I personally have encountered with this brand of tractor. I will state again, I feel I have adequate experience to speak the truth. I have had four of these in a period of less than a year. The dealer was excellent at trying to remidy the problem by bringing out his entire stock of new tractors. I feel that my farm was and still is the Lenar Tractor Proving Grounds. Every tractor has blown the main hydraulic hose, every tractor had some sort of electrical deficiency such as guages not reading right, the tail lights staying on and melting the reflective lense cover, and leaks of some sort. I do not need lights to set posts for a fence, so I over looked that defect. Leaks, well I am not parking it in my garage, so as long as it wasnt spewing out, and just a drip, and having to top off the fluids once a week, I could deal with that. Guages, well I know the fluids are good, I just topped them off, and the tractor did start, maybe with a jump, but it did start, I can still set posts, so that was over looked as well. Splitting in half, well that was a problem, I couldnt set posts, main hydraulic hose blowing, well, cant set posts with that problem either, not shifting to four wheel drive, well that can make a muddy field difficult to work in, but I could buy a wench and pull my self to the last post I set, or use the bucket to push myself backwards to where I need to go, but if I was really willing to do that, I could just go the next step and buy a good ash handled post hole digger. Ok, so I know I have problems and that this tractor could be costly to own because of repairs, so I bought a bumper to bumper warranty from Fail Safe for it. Well what good is a warranty if you can not find a dealer within 500 miles to work on it. That is a problem that cant be worked around either. I am able to work on the tractor myself, but if I was willing to do that, I would have bought an old ford 8N and refurbished it since finding parts for that tractor is relitivley easy, but I cant set posts or move manure if I am working on a tractor. Well I should say something good about this Lenar tractor, so I will. If I was to take a power washer and wash it really really good and pulled it to the middle of a field, from a distant, it would look like a really good tractor, you could see how the fiberglass shell is nice and shiny, and it is blue from the inside out, not just paint but the fiberglass is impregnated with blue pigment, you couldnt see the oil leaks or stains from the hoses or engine block, and it does say it is four wheel drive on it, with nice aggressive looking tires. For all intent and purposes, the Lenar Tractor really looks good.........Just dont start it. You can say you have a nice tractor, you can write it off on your taxes and it would make a farm look like a farm with it sitting in the field. For those uses, the Lenar tractor is an exceptional machine. Just make sure that the post hole digger, the shovel and the wheel barrel are hid, that way no one will know that you have a tractor that you cant use, or afraid to use, and that you got dupped into buying an over priced bird perch. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-02          84948

Hello, this is Patrick again, I have a few questions to ask you about your advice and your advertisement of the china tractors. First let lets talk about what you said about being a lenar tractor dealer. I have to ask why you do not still have that dealership since your own words were that the lenar tractor is a decent machine with just a "few" bugs. Since you have advertised the china tractors as having a few bugs, I feel that a few bugs are acceptable in a low income appartment, but in a new tractor????? I feel I do not have a few bugs but a damn cockroach invested POS. I should have learned my lesson from things made in china from the very first time I bought fire works. When they can make a batch of explosives and half of them are duds, what would make me believe that they could make a tractor that would work. And do you realize how far Memphis is away from Monroe Michigan. It is not like I can just jump on the tractor and drive it down there. You really think that telling people that you can buy a new tractor in the spring, and then they can take it from your dealership, drive god knows how far to a place to fix the bugs that you sold somebody and call that a good deal???? If Lenar and its dealers know about these BUGS, why would you not fix them before you sell the tractor. Does Lenar have a research and developement department or is it a repair and replace policy to get more money for parts???? What really upsets me, is that this tractor is backed or partially backed by Ford, I work for Ford and alot of the guys I work with own Kubota, New Holland, and John Deere, they all have offered to come over and pull the tractor in half for me and bury it for me. All I hear from the guys at work is wise cracks. But since you think that the lenar is a good tractor, would you be interested in buying this one back. It only has 39 hours on it but to be honest it does have some of those bugs that you mentioned before, so if you want it, do me a favor, bring some cash and your tool box. ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2004-05-02          85006

Patrick,
It appears you have taken offense to my post. I intended it to be helpful, and sincerely apologize if you did not find it so.

I am no longer a Lenar dealer. (Due to a change in their national distribution plans, since you asked) My dog is not in this fight.

Why would I buy it back? I didn't sell it to you. Your hostility may be justified, but misdirected. I have deleted my prior post since it seemed to fan the flames.

I do wish you the best of luck.





....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-02          85009

Hello again, I really am not upset with any individual, I am upset with my luck. My posts are not a cry of anger, but a cry for help. I am not a rich man, I am a blue collared horse farmer that really just wants a machine to work. I do not care about lights or bells and whistles, I need something to work and that is dependable. I have to say this, and I think that I have tried to portray the dealer that sold me the tractor as a really nice guy. I can not say a single thing bad about the dealer. He DID ALL THAT HE COULD TO RECTIFY THE PROBLEMS AND HE HELD ME AS AN IMPORTANT CUSTOMER. I have told him this and I will tell all the people in the world that if there was a car dealership that gave me the service or the respect that this man did, that that dealership would run all the others out of business. I have bought new cars, bikes and other high dollar products from dealers that once I leave the lot, that they do not want to help me in any way at all until I am ready to buy another new product. This man really bent over backwards to correct the problem and keep me happy. I did not over work the tractors, I didnt have them long enough to do that, you meantioned the loaders, well the first three had Leon loaders, I will say that the Leon Loaders are of excellent quality and very very sturdy and powerfull. The last tractor, the one I have now, came with a Helpmate Loader. Now that is the weakest and flimsiest, thing that I have ever saw. When I bought this tractor, I bought a front end hydraulic post hole digger, a set of hilo forks, and a six way bulldozing blade (4 ft) and of cours a 5 ft bucket, all brand new, with the Leon loader, they all worked fine, with the helpmate, the six way blade is an $1100.00 attachment that cant be used, the post hole digger, which I have a 6 inch and a 9 inch really strains the loader to pull it out of the hole. Really it is the 9 inch that strains it. I am also upset that I am having trouble finding somebody to wrench on the tractor. I have a $1000.00 invested in a warranty on a product that nobody right now will service. To make this easier for some to understand, I have about 15000.00 invested with this piece of equiptment, and it really hurts me when I need to get work done, and I have to do it the hardway or manually because the tractor I bought for the job wont do it. I bought this tractor to do the work myself and save me money, not to have to hire somebody to move dirt or spread dirt or brush hog the property. I see that the lenar tractor at some dealerships come with a yr warranty and some offer only 6 months. I do not understand that, and that my dealer kept keeping my warranty from the time of purchase and not from the time of replacement. So honestly, I have had four tractors in under six months. That would be enough for anyone to lose their minds. Yes I am angry, and I am lookng for help and dont know where to go to get it, but it seems like the bank sure knows where to send the payment notes at the end of the month. Please do not think that I am attacking you, I just feel like I have been the one attacked. ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2004-05-03          85026

OK, this is the place to get some help.

As I was laying in bed thinking of your problem, I recalled that we had to make some adjustments to the 4WD shift mechanism on a couple of Lenar tractors. (Its been a year since we assembled any Lenars).

I know you said you didn't want to work on it yourself but this shouldn't be too hard and it may get you going in less time than hauling to a repair shop.

The 4wd engage lever by the seat is connected to a second lever under the floorboard. that lever has a fork on the end of it that operates the transfer case lever. in some cases that fork would travel too far and allow the pin to escape the fork, when the lever was pushed the other way, one side of the fork would jam against the pin causing the lever not to move. There is a detent plate and a ball on the intermediate lever that holds everything in place and controls how far the level travels each way. it is held to the transmission with two bolts (you have to remove the intermediate lever to get too it). You may be able to loosen those two bolts and slightly move the detent plate so that the fork cannot become disloged. One one tractor we reversed the plate. I suspect this may be the problem, it is very hard to describe only by words, but if you take a look under the floor board on the left side you will see what I am talking about and perhaps this will be an easy fix.

Some of the Leon loaders did not have rear axle support and there were some reports of a couple of bellhousing failures Sadly it appears you owned one, but it also sounds like your dealer already made good on that issue, too bad the new loader is not compatible with the extras you bought for the Leon. It sounds like it was a nice package.

I have heard that the Leon loader now has the axle support that is required on the Lenar, if you get the tractor sorted out, you may want to change loaders so you can use your attachements. You may be able to recover some of the cost by reselling the helpmate, I understand it can be adapted to many tractors. But I guess we should save that issue till you get the tractor to where you want it.

Let me know if any of the FWD linkage issue makes sense after you look at it, I think you will see what is happening (or not happening as in your case).

Then let us know about the hydraulic leak, were it is, etc and perhaps we can come up with something for that.

Since you have to make the payments, from where I sit, you might as well get it to earn its keep!




....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-05-03          85032

Also check out the Lenar link below. It appears specific to the FS-274. Once there, you'll find a Lenar owners discussion group, the national parts warehouse number, a dealer/distributor list, a suggestion form, and a support email address.

//greg// ....


Link:   Lenar FS274-1 website

 
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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-03          85105

Hello again, I want to thank you for your advice, only after I have drained the oil twice, flushed it twice to be hit with no results did I get it to move to 4WD. It was not that that advice was bad, I did get some chips and junk out of the case, but what was holding it in 2WD was that damn little ball. The detents that they put in the frame of the tractor, or the cast case if you prefer are too deep and the ball was actually seating below center and it was not the lever traveling past center. I loosened the nut that holds the lever on, the ball fell out and the lever slid right into 4WD with out any problem. Now I can shift from 2wd to 4WD effortlessly. Thanks for your advice, I know, it was just a little bug, LOL, 10 minutes and it was fixed. But this really have taken a toll on my nerves and patience with the tractor. But I still have a bad engine oil leak that I need to get taken care of if I can find someone that will take the warranty. Thanks again.
....

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Ben (USA Distributor
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2004-05-04          85188

What we all have to remember is that all tractors (Chinese or not) are purchased by distributor or dealers that agree to support them after the sale. You can always tell when this is not happening when there is a big complainer. When Patrick called me the only thing he could tell me (besides that he is building a website to bad mouth Lenar and convince people not to buy them) was that the person that sold the tractor "was out of business." Well, that figures, sure does seem unprofessional to sell someone Ag equipment and then relenquish all responsibility after the sale. That doesn't make sense to me. What he also didn't tell you all is that one of his major problems with the Lenar tractor happened because of mis-use, in that a non-approved loader was mounted to the tractor without a mounting system to protect the bell housing! (Does that fall on the quality of the tractor or the person selling and using the tractor?) I am getting pretty tired of hearing all of these complainers when it comes to import tractors. If they don't know how to support them, then don't sell them, if you don't know how to use them, then don't buy one, you can always go spend $18,000+ on a major brand and just maybe you won't have any problems.......or will you? And by the way Lenar Tractors has agreed to help Patrick with the problems that have came about, yet he started with the bad mouthing and rhetoric before he even approached us. I guess it takes a non-professional dealer to sell tractors to a non-professional end-user. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-04          85235

Hello again, this is Patrick Webb, I want to make sure that we are all clear on just the facts, so here they are.
1. I was in the market for a tractor on a horse farm.

2. I saw a Lenar tractor for sale by Jim Travioli of Zone 5 Nursery in northern Mich. about 120 miles from me. He had it advertised with a Leon loader.

3. The loader looked sturdy, I liked the price, seemed that the tractor would do what I wanted it to do so I purchased along with the tractor a set of hilo forks for the FEL, a FEL 9 in hydraulic post hole auger, a 4 ft 6 way blade for the FEL and of course a 5 ft bucket and a 5th spool hydraulic control for the impliments that needed them. (I have to ask, HOW WAS I TO KNOW THAT THE LEON LOADER WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE PUT ON A LENAR TRACTOR???? THE DEALER ADVERTISED IT THAT WAY.
4. The 1st tractor blew the main hydraulic hose before we had it loaded on the trailer, and Jim said come back tomarrow and I will have it fixed, it must have been a bad hose. I returned the next day and we loaded the tractor only to have an engine knock emerge before we could strap the tractor down. Jim said no problem, come back next week and I will have another new one built and you can take that one.
5. I returned the following week, got the new tractor, with a Leon loader on it and took it home only to have it blow 3 main hydraulic hoses as well in less than a month along with having hydraulic leaks or sweating as some call them. Not to meantion that the rubber in some places was dry rotted or cracked, especially around the head lights and some electical components. That one was picked up and a new one was dropped off to me. He made the trip this time. The new one was blue and it came with a Leon loader as well.
6. The one he dropped off to me broke in half while I was brushhogging the pasture. I set some posts with it and moved some dirt with it. I am not talking a lot of dirt or alot of posts because it only lasted around late fourty hours. Now I do not live in a concrete parking lot nor do I have land that is covered in clay. I have a good 12 inches of topsoil and the rest is yellow sand.
7. The tractor he dropped off seemed to be in good shape except this one came with a rinky dink Helpmate loader that is totally useless with the 6 way blade, it can only safely pic up about four bags of cement and the 9 inch auger really strains it. Now I have attachments that I cant use, but the other main thing was that it would not go into 4wd. I spent all winter with it in 2wd and finally found out that the bug was a 3/8 in ballbearing and detents drilled to deep.
8. After having this tractor for about 25 hours, Jim called me up and offered me a failsafe warranty because he knew that my tracter was going out of warranty from time of purchase and recomended that I buy it. I did. I thought I would be a fool not to buy a warranty from the troubles that I have been having.
9. I contacted Jim in the spring to find out what to do about the 4wd and oil leaks that this tractor has developed and he informed me that he was no longer handling the Lenar tractors anymore, ( I kinda figured that when he called me about the warranty.) So I started to call tractor dealers to work on it. I found no one in the state of michigan that knows anything about Lenars, even the ones that accepted the failsafe warranty would not work on my tractor.
10. I started to post my misfortunes and searching dillegently for some help.
11. A man, a dealer, from a far away state, gave me Roger Powells cell number, (Roger is in charge of importing the lenar. He emailed me a list of a bunch of people in michigan that he said would be willing to work on the lenar.
12. I contacted about 14 of them and most of them never heard of lenar, failsafe or Roger Powell, those who did, said that they spoke to him months ago about the service in which he wanted them to provide, but he never followed up with any paperwork and some of those people were no longer interested in doing (service work).
13. I finally started calling Lenar and anybody that would listen to me at the HQs.
14. I spoke to Ben Hime and he told me that it was my dealers responsibility not his to help me. (What part of (Jims out of business) did he not understand?????) I told him that I really have had it with this tractor, the service, the run around and the cheaply built helpmate loader,(he told me that lenar no longer wants helpmates put on the tractors now as well) and that I wanted someone to fix this machine so that I can use it for what I bought it for. His constant reply was "It is not my responsibility, but your dealers, he is the one that sold you the tractor, made the 40% profit on the tractor and he should service it. You can call our parts and service dept. and they may be able to help you." With that I called them and found that they are working on two brand new machines that have oil leaks as well and that the service manager was not even suprised to hear that I have had this much trouble with the Lenar tractor.
14. Now I see Ben's post basicly saying I missused the tractor and I dont know how to use a tractor. Well, I may be a farmer, but I am far from stupid, it does not take a degree to use a tractor for what it is meant for, but it does take some skill to learn how to market a faulty product and blame it on somebody else.
15. I guess what he is saying is that the lenar tractor should not have a Leon loader on it, it should not have a Helpmate loader on it, and it should never under no circumstances be started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only mistake I made was not walking away from this deal after the engine knock. I feel like I was misled and now I feel like the Lenar tractor company wont even admit that there are or were hydraulic problems, starter problems, electrical problems and 4wd problems with there tractors. I have had four of them and they all have had these problems. Is that user error, dealer error, or just a poor poor machine. ....

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greg_g
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2004-05-04          85237

Pathetic. Both of you. For a Lenar representative (if you are one Ben) to publicly criticize a customer once his money is in your corporate pocket - is highly unprofessional.

Patrick - to continue to publicly defame an entire line of tractors because of problems that now appear almost entirely dealer and loader/hydraulics related - is frustration talking. Not common sense. And it's now getting very very old.And in reading between the lines, I'm thinking you bought that 1st Lenar with an eye on the price, instead of your mind on the "right tool for the job". A larger tractor in the first place may have avoided all this.

Ben - I think Lenar we need a good show of faith from Lenar here. Shovel up what's left of this 4th Lenar, and replace it with a professionally assembled tractor that is outfitted with a Lenar-approved loader. If it is not capable of supporting the previously purchased attachments, buy them back too. If you feel somebody needs to pay, go after the (former) dealer who started this mess in the first place.

//greg// ....

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grinder
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2004-05-05          85241

Four tractors,dealer related?
How hard can it be to open a crate
and put the wheels and loader on? ....

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edward_dugas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 24 ohio
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2004-05-05          85251

Ben When the Lenar company selects its dealers they become the agents of that company. It now appears that you are backing away from both the dealer and the customer. Ben you (Lenar) made the mistake in the selection and in the training of the dealer who could't assemble the tractor in accordance with your specifications don't compound the mistake with the customer as his money keeps Lenar in business. Also noted from your site that the warranty to the customer is for 2 years. It would be nice if Lenar stood behind its product warranty. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-05-05          85255

C'mon not grinder, read the words. With the exception of a few fit and finish problems like the drive select lever, those major failures described have been loader related. It's becoming pretty clear that the original dealer was misrepresenting Lenar. If the customer wants to go out and buy/install the wrong loader for the tractor - that's on him. But when a franchised dealer does it on a tractor that's represented as NEW........

Hard telling how many times and to how many people that "dealer" sold those four tractors. Patrick was only one victim, there are at least three more of these floating around out there. Lenar should be obliged to take up the slack when such a dealer bails out. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2004-05-05          85267

Hello again, the way I see it, I bought a tractor and its implements based on what I needed to do. I had no way of knowing that the LEON Loader was not to be installed on the tractor, since, I was standing there looking at the tractor with the LEON Loader on it. If I had known that the loader voided the tractors warranty before I even drove it home, I would not have bought it. I feel I was misled as I had said. Now the Helpmate loader that is on the tractor now cant do the job, I feel that I paid for the Leon Loader and got a Helpmate which is by far cheaper, where did the extra money go??? We all know that answer, the dealer, who is OUT OF BUSINESS. Now that I basicly am fed up, I get to be called a "BIG COMPLAINER" not a customer or a client, but since they have my money, I am now a pain in the %&$. There may have been dealer faults with the tractor, but how can you blame, engine leaks, hydraulic leaks, wiring and switch problems on the dealer???? Lets face it, in the eyes of those who wear penny loafers and work in big corporate office buildings, one little horse farmer is not worth the worry to make happy. ....

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greg_g
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2004-05-05          85290

And you're not helping yourself by continuing to be a "big complainer". Give Ben (and Lenar) and chance to stand up and do the right thing here. There's a lot of potential Lenar exposure here, don't ruin a good thing when it's going your way

//greg// ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-12          85849

Hello, this is Patrick Webb again, I just wanted to say that I still have not heard anything from anybody to help me with the problems that I am having with the Lenar tractor. Like I said, and you all know, once they get your money, you are from that moment on a pain in the *&% if you have any problems. I did have a small problem with the helpmate loader. Although I am not happy with the helpmate because I paid for a Leon Loader, I have to say that the company really is a standup company. I had a failure with the loader, called the company up and they are sending me the replacement parts asap!!!!!!!! No questions or hassles. Mr. Cole even is working with me to fix the problems with the tractor. If all companies were like Mr. Cole's there would be no "big complainers". It is really a sad situation when another company has to step in and try to fix what LENAR should be fixing themselves. I thank Mr. Cole for his support and professionalism. ....

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John_S
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-05-12          85865

When was the last time you called and talked to Ben Hime? He made the statement and is in the position to make it happen.

....

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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14 Missouri
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2004-05-16          86183

Hello everyone. I have watched all the posts on this and am a little puzzeled.It is without a dought the dealers fault, but Lenar is responsible in the end.Greg, get a life. If it were you, you would be mad to.Yes Patrick is upset and talking with emotion but that is something that Greg lacks.If Lenar was a stand up company they would have taken care of this problem a long time ago.As I see it Patrick get a lawyer and make them be a stand up company.It would probally only take one phone call from a lawyer or your states atterny and Ben or his boss would have a different outlook.
Is a Lenar a Jinma tractor? I own a Farmpro and love it. I had a little trouble when I first bought it and had dealer issues. I called Homier which is the importer and company that sells them and talked to the plant manager. They were great to deal with and fixed my problem.They have even called to make sure it is still ok. That is a stand up company. Good luck Patrick

Tim ....

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greg_g
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2004-05-17          86189

Guilty as charged Griz, but the "get a life" business was uncalled for. In the life I DO have, it's been proven over and over that common sense and logic are required to get out of a hole like this. Emotion merely serves to dig it deeper.

//greg// ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2004-05-17          86259

Just to answer the question, the Lenar is not a Jinma, in fact the importer has gone to great lengths to diferentiate themselves from Jinma. ....

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Bob
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2004-05-18          86299

I have a Lenar 274 and also had a problem with it not going into 4wd. I called the dealer and they sent someone right out. It turns out that the lever is held in or out of 4wd by a "detent and ball" mechanism. He reached up under the fender and sqirted some wd-40 on the ball and had it working perfectly in about 15 seconds. He said it was a common problem on new units because the ball seats to well in the detent. I have had no problem since. Hope it helps you. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-24          86709

HEllo all, this is Patrick Webb again. I have not been on here in a while because I was trying to work with Lenar to get my problems resolved. What I found out was very disheartening. Ben would not talk to me, so I had to speak with Berry Summer or Summers,(we will just call him Berry) but what he told me repeatedly was that taking care of the problems with my tractor falls entirely on my dealer who you all know is out of business. Well I was willing to drive to Indiana to a Lenar dealer who is 5 hours away to have him fix the problem. LOL, would you believe that all Lenar dealers are under no obligation to work on a Lenar tractor that they did not sell. Can you believe this!!!!!! The dealer in Indiana said that his insurance would not cover it, even if I drove it to him so he could fix it!!!!! Berry said that he will give me all the technical support and replacement parts under warranty. Just tell him what I need. Well my engine is leaking oil from more than one location, litterally sweating engine oil so I told him my problem. His reply, "Yeah, you need to fix that, what do you need?" I said "a new engine." No dice was his reply, you need to have a mechanic look at it, well my dealer is out of business and there are no mechanics that take the FailSafe warranty and those that do accept the warranty, wont look at it. So what am I to do????? Berry did say that he would sue me for liable and slander if I bad mouthed Lenar anymore. Good, he can sue me for 10k and I will give him his tractor back if he wins. What I am saying here is the truth. Even Lenars own dealers are under no obligation to work on Lenar tractors that they did not sell!!!!! God help me with this situation. I have a tractor that I can not get fixed, a warranty that is no good and I feel like I have been really frauded in the belief that the Lenar would back up there products. By the way, Lenar is part of Mazama products, and Mazama handles Taskmaster tractors. Buyers beware.
If anybody feels that they can help or would like to speak to me in person, please contact me at
1 734 439 0686
Patrick Webb
14659 Borso Dr
Milan, Mi 48160
....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2004-05-24          86722

It sounds like it's time to escalate. Does your state have a department of consumer affairs? You could also call your attorney generals office to see if they can offer some advice. Also, local tv or newspapers sometimes have consumer advocates that work on your behalf. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-24          86739

Hello, you are correct, it is time to escalate. I am contacting whoever will listen to me, most of what I am getting is I am stuck, that may be so, but since I have this time on my hands and I am hard headed and strong willed, I will make sure that everyone knows that Lenar, Mazama, and Taskmaster are things that should never be bought or sold in the USA. What type of company would even think of telling its dealers that they do not have to work on the same brand of tractor that they sell if they did not sell that particular tractor. All of us could understand if JD or Kubota wont work on a Lenar, but not to work on a JD or a Kubota because they did not sell it?????? COME ON. That is rediculous. For those of you that do not know me, you may see me trucking this Lemon wherever I go. You may see me at the fairs, or even in front of your dealership. You may not have to work on it, but I will make sure people see it. Lenar, one man can not ruin your business unless you give him the power to do so. Keep running from your customers. I know of 19 people that have written me to my personal email account of the type of service that you have not given them. It does make me feel a little better to know that I am not the only one, but it makes me sick that you think that you can get away with it. I will be seeing you around. ....

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edward_dugas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 24 ohio
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2004-05-25          86762

An absolute defense to Libel or slander is the truth. If the statements are true, no libel or slander. Recommend that you contact an Attorney and commence action against the The Lenar Company, it's reps, and the distributor. I am willing to bet that none of them have ever been sued or consulted with an attorney to determine their exposure in this matter or in any other matter that is why the arrogance on their part. You could join with others that have had problems with these folks to share costs. Your attorney will explain that the warranty is not the limiting factor in this case.

Good Luck! from Retired Corporate Attorney ....

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John_S
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25 Southern Tier NY
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2004-05-25          86801

The particulars involved with this, have been in business selling different chinese tractors for many years. I have seen other complaints posted on boards, over the years. I highly suspect that they have been sued or been threatened to be sued, in the past. ie don't assume they are newbies that are going to run from the first sign of a lawyer. All part of descussions you should have with your lawyer.

JohnS ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-25          86848

Well, you are all probably correct, I should get a lawyer, but I am not just worried about me, but about every potential buyer out there. I do not care if I get sued, I dont need a lawyer to defend me if I am telling the truth, which I am. A lawyer is a good shield to hide behind if you are in the wrong. I am beyond asking for help from lenar anymore. I will be leaving my farm on the weekends and taking this dripping, oil soaked, blue lemon with me to every tractor dealership I come across. If it is a NewHolland, my slogan is buy a NewHolland that way you wont get stuck with this. But if I happen to just find a Taskmaster or a Lenar dealer, well then that will be a sight to behold, for I will educate buyers of my problems to save them the hassle. I already have contacted WDIV Problem Solvers in Ohio, The Defenders of Detroit on channel 4, I am sure that I will get alot of publicity just because of the fact that Lenar dealers do not have to work on Tractors that they do not sell. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, I would have prefered to get the grease before the shaft but hey, thats my luck. I will get at least some satisfaction from this one way or the other. THE TRUTH IS NOT LIABLE OR SLANDER, BUT IT IS A CRYING SHAME.
By the way, the mechanic for the former dealer was the owner, he is selling KAMA's by the way if I am not mistaken. I feel that he did what he could to rectify the problem, I cant believe that I almost became a dealer for this tractor. Now the only tractor I want to sell is the one that I own. Anyway, keep an eye out, My first trip is to Indiana. ....

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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14 Missouri
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2004-05-25          86853

Thank God.I am sure Jinma would be very upset. ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2004-05-25          86869

The plot thickens. Getting a little strange. I import Kamas now but continue to support my Lenar customers...it was in my contract and it is the right thing to do. this whole deal is starting to sound a little fishy. First we feel bad because this dealer left Patrick holding the bag, now we find out that the dealer has only changed brands and is still in business after all.

I felt so bad (and a little tired of this) that I just finished typing an offer to install an engine for Patrick if Mazama would ship me one and if he was up to hauling his tractor to Arkansas. (posted on another board) I hoped a Lenar dealer closer might meet my challenge and save Patrick some driving. Heck I'm not even a Lenar dealer anymore. I just hate the thought of somebody getting stuck unwittingly with no obvious way out.

Now I really wonder if this is all just some ploy cooked up by Patrick (and perhaps his dealer friend) to get back at Mazama for some reason? (could be they deserve it, I don't really have anything to say about Mazama except that I have had no problem getting needed parts).
Now I wonder if I should withdraw my offer and delete my post on the other board?
Reading all these posts, I wonder if repair is what Patrick ever really wanted in the first place...

In any case his dealer really ought to fix this tractor. He knew it was his obligation when he bought them. If he went bankrupt that is one thing, but just to change brands and walk away from your customers? In doing so he has made a victim of Patrick, Mazama and all the Lenar, and now Taskmaster dealers out there and in some respects the whole thing sorta gives the entire Chinese tractor industry a black eye.

....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-26          86873

Hello Chip, I have to assure you that I do not have the energy nor the desire to fabricate or cook something up with Jim Travioli to get back at Mazama or lenar. I was truly willing to go to Indiana to get my tractor fixed, but when I found out that the dealers insurance would not cover him repairing my tractor, and that Lenar dealers are not obligated to repair any other tractors other than the one that he sells, it has left a bad taste in my mouth. If I buy a Dodge or Chevy or any car or truck for that matter in Michigan, move to florida to live, and it breaks down, a dealership in florida would fix it even though they did not sell it to me. This is the way it should be, even with tractors. I do appreciate your offer, and if Mazama will deal with you that is great, but what about the next repair, or the other owners in Michigan that have lenars, who is supporting them, (THATS A DAMN GOOD QUESTION, now that I think about it, who is supporting them????) I wish I knew how to find out who in michigan bought a lenar, I am sure that when channel two runs there program, I might would find out. But anyways, I just want to let you know that I am a standup guy, there is no hanky panky going on between me and Jim, you were a dealer for Lenar, Is it true that you can deny service to a tractor owner if you did not sell him that tractor? What I originally wanted was my tractor fixed, but with all the run around and trouble trying to get it fixed, and that the tractor is not what I originally purchased in the first place, (different loader),and common sense telling me that sooner or later you will have to take it to the shop again, I want Lenar to pay off the loan to the bank, pick up this tractor and all the impliments that I bought for it and forget about me, and I would forget about them. This was a fair deal, I think I only owe like 10k left. NO owner or customer should be made to feel the way I do, nor should any customer have to go through 4 tractors. You seem like a stand up guy Chip, write me at hick11h1369 at tm.net and tell me what you think I should do?? ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2004-05-26          86874

Have you looked into the Better Business Bureau?
I had great results with my local GMC dealer with
a threat to a written comlpaint to the BBB. I understand
they have 30 days to resolve any issues. What do you have to loose?
I would not fix it!! ....

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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 193 Arkansas
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2004-05-26          86886

Sorry Patrick, I was out of bounds to make that insinuation. To answer your question, although it is my right to do so, I wouldnt necessarily refuse to service a tractor sold by another dealer, but I would have to charge the customer. (That is unless some nationally insured extended warranty like Fail Safe was in effect that would cover the repair).

Automobile and most major brand tractor companies pay thier dealers to do warranty service and that is why they do it. For example in my Kioti contract, I agree to work on Kiotis brought to me...and Kioti agrees to compensate me. In my Lenar contract I agreed to do the service on the tractors I sold at my own expense.

The terms of your warranty agreement should reflect this arrangement.

With most Chinese tractors, the cost to do warranty labor is included in the profit on the sale. I used to sell machine tools and service labor was handled in a similar fasion, higher dealer discounts.

Many dealers of Chinese tractors import their own tractors and arrange their own warranty based on the manufacturers parts replacement policy. So one dealer really cannot work on another dealers tractor. This is why it is so important to buy from an established, reputable dealer and there are many of them out there who work hard to keep thier customers satisfied. And yes there are many satisfied customers of Chinese tractors out there.

The only company selling a Chinese manufactured tractor through dealers on a nationwide basis that also stands behind the warranty labor that I know of is Farm Pro.But there may be some others.




....

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John_S
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25 Southern Tier NY
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2004-05-26          86908

"I want Lenar to pay off the loan to the bank, pick up this tractor and all the impliments that I bought for it and forget about me, and I would forget about them. This was a fair deal, I think I only owe like 10k left. "

This is starting to smell again. At first, I thought you didn't give Lenar an opportunity to really adress the problem, and was using the net just to get your way, then it seemed it calmed down and you tried this route, and they were not cooperating, now it seems we are back to unreasonable demands. You expect Lenar to buy back all tractors sold by a bankrupt dealer??

Now the fact comes out that your ex dealer is now selling another tractor brand. He went bankrupt just to protect himself then!! Why don't you park you Lenar in front of HIS Kama dealership to show how he handled his excustomers? If he goes bankrupt again, how will his new Kama customers be supported? See if he will pay off your loan to make you go away.

While I am disappointed in the support or lack of, that you are getting from Lenar, again allot of this blame is on your dealer. Sounds like you can focus some of your anger where it may be more deserving, and you won't need to travel as far.

JohnS ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-26          86920

I tried working with lenar to get it fixed, they told me that no dealer has to work on a tractor that they did not sell, well that is a crock wether you want to admit it or not and the consumers need to know about it. You buy a tractor here, move there, and the dealer says "not my problem, I didnt sell it to you." Car dealerships arent like that. I was willing to drive to have a Lenar dealer fix it, that is a compromise and a move that I never once thought I would have to make before I bought the tractor. I thought I could get any mechanic to work on it, weather it is JD, NH, farmpro, ect. but the mechanics are afraid of a tractor that they have no knowlege about. Dont you think that the simple thing for Lenar to do is fix this tractor rather than give me the run around, call several mechanics and dealers to find out that even a Lenar Dealer is under no obligation to help me. Now, I am making unreasonable demands because I have a tractor that has no support. This tractor is like an ex wife, always giving you trouble, costing you money and you cant get rid of it, and with the leaks that it has, I might as well say it is on the rag 24/7 and your lucky if you could turn it on. Alot of people would say having to drive out of state is unreasonable. I am sorry that you dont share my opinion, but the bank is still getting my money. Would banks continue to finance the tractors if they knew that the customers had no support if the dealer goes out of business!!!! What do you think is a reasonable solution??? ....

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Tim
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2004-05-26          86933

John,
Do you work for Lenar? Sounds like you don't like to "Rock the Boat". Sometimes the boat needs a good hole in the side to get someone to pay attention.Lenar needs that boat rocked. ....

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John_S
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 25 Southern Tier NY
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2004-05-26          86938

No, you don't sink the fleet to get rid of two problem boats.

....

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hick11h1369
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Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-05-26          86951

Just a word on sinking of ships, What was it that Japan did at Pearl Harbor???? ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-05-26          86952

Just a word on sinking of ships, What was it that Japan did at Pearl Harbor???? ....

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John_S
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2004-05-26          86956

Certainly don't like your analogy, but they "missed the critical aircraft carriers" (thank god). You can go about "blowing ships out of the water", but doesn't explain why you are so protective of this ex-dealer. Was there more to the relationship, since you were considering to become a dealer, yourself. When he filed for bankrupcy, did you file a claim to at least be on the list of who is owed compensation? When exactly did he go bankrupt and how long before he opened a Kama dealership? When will we get the whole story?

I have no love lost for Ben Hime and Roger Powel, given what I've seen in the past. As Chip says, there are many good dealers out there, that don't deserve your rath. Target the offending ships only.

JohnS ....

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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14 Missouri
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2004-05-26          86957

I think that sinking the fleet will make make them build a better fleet.The problem with the world today is that nobody wants to take responsibility for themselves.They only want to pass the buck and say its not my fault.They need to suck it up and stand behind their product or quit selling it. ....

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John_S
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2004-05-26          86967

Does your ex-dealer have a better fleet or just another fleecing? See if he will take the problems he left you with, and trade you a new or slightly used Kama. Alternatively, since he is still in the business, why can't he do the labor and Lenar send the parts? He can't perform on the Failsafe warrantee he sold you? Too many unanswered questions.

....

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fred
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2004-05-27          86979

Wait, he is selling Kamas now!!! Did he go bankrupt or just quit selling Lenars? Don't you think this guy should get out of the tractor business if he cant take care of the customers.

Is he going to do the same thing with these Kama's? Just sell some and get out when he has a complaint. Or just hand out knew ones every time? Do Kamas dealers work on other peoples tractors? You should definately sit outside his door before you take a road trip. Make him honor his committment.

If he just fixed the first tractor to start with, then you probably wouldn't be in this mess. Most of your problems didn't sound that bad and many are probably the dealers fault, and some appear to be with the loader. You say you got 4 lemons but obviously many people who have bought these tractors have been happy or we would have heard from more people like you.

They cant be all bad. I haven't heard other Lenar owners complaining. In fact, if you search through old post, most people who have had these tractors have been happy about it. I just think your problems or more with chinese tractors in general then they are with Lenar.

Why are you so quick to defend your dealer? Seems to be trying to make a quick buck. What did he do with the ones he took back from you? Did he fix them? Did he sell them as new? If he did that, he may have gave you one that had already been used.

Maybe the reason why so many people dont wont to help you is because they are scared you are going to attack them or their business. You know have have probably already cost many good people, independent dealers, thousands of dollars by this bad publicity. It's not their fault your dealer is no good. I agree it would be great if they all worked on these tractors, but almost all chinese tractors are like this and it was probably in your contract. Hopefully they can grow into a company that does that.
I didn't mean to criticize but would like you to understand both sides. Sorry about your problems and hope you get them fixed. Also, sorry for the long post. ....

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Spectator
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2004-05-27          86980

my two cents.......you don't call GM and expect them to replace your Chevy you just bought at the local dealership when you have problems with it, especially problems possibly caused by the dealer. ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-05-27          86990

Hello, you have alot of questions regarding my old dealer. Well, let me answer some of the or all of them for you. I do not know if he filed chapter 11 or what, I do know that he is selling another brand of tractor because he said with the Lenars there was too many defects and repairs on their products out of the crate. Jim did try to rectify and he did honor the 6 month warranty that came with the tractor. I feel he did all that he could to rectify the problems by being Johnny on the spot when a tractor broke. The hydraulic problems were not from the loader, but from the three point hitch valve. The rod knock has nothing to do with the loader, engine leaks have nothing to do with the loader, electrical deficiencies have nothing to do with the loader, transmission faults have nothing to do with the loader, starter problems have nothing to do with the loader, these problems are to do with the MANUFACTURER. LENAR advertises as a stand up company with Ford backing a product that you can get service for fairly easily. They advertise CUSTOMER SATISFACTION AS WELL AS EXCELLENCE. Well if I was selling the tractor and had this many problems with the tractors right out of the crate, I would not sell them either or get out as quickly as I could because LENAR MISLED THE PRODUCT TO HIM AS WELL. I have had Ford buy back a 94 truck under the lemon law, the dealer didnt buy it back, FORD DID. How can you say that it is the dealers fault when the tractor is as inferior as the Lenar due to poor quality control. Yes he sold me the tractor, but I bought it with the belief that I could get it serviced without a hassle. I even bought a Failsafe warranty to add to the bill because I figured Jim was going under or out when he called me to sell the warranty at his cost. Lenars, in my opinion, should never be sold in the US. Their company policy and the way they treat consumers is a joke. Their customers are the dealers, not us. Like I asked earlier, if a dealer retires, he does deserve to do that right??? Who is there to support the tractors. You tend to lead the thought that me and Jim are friends, I cant say that we are, he just sold me a tractor. I work for Ford, I have an Arabian horse farm, there are alot of people that I come into contact with at work and on the farm that are or were looking for a compact tractor. That was the only reason I thought about selling them. When my experience was that they are a throw away tractor like a Yugo, I couldnt sell someone a tractor like this. The only reason I want to fix this thing, is because I have to make sure it runs in case someone wants to steal it. They have to be able to load it or drive it off the farm. When I found out how hard and what a runnaround it was to get it fixed, that is when I realized that LENAR and its websites are full of misguiding statements. If there are dealers that are selling Lenars, are they telling the people that if they lose the dealership or retire, good luck finding a mechanic or parts. Like I asked earlier, is lenar still importing the tractor because I heard that the tractors now cant pass the EPA regs. Is that why they are pushing the Taskmaster???? What about the lenar dealers, are they going to be switching to Taskmaster or choosing another brand or retire??? The whole thing is, LENAR DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE CONSUMER. NOT IN THE LEAST BIT. THE CONSUMER IS JUST A COMPLAINER. AS FAR AS ME BEING THE ONLY ONE HAVING TROUBLE, I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IF I GOT FOUR LEMONS, OTHERS HAVE GOTTEN THEM TOO. MAYBE THEY DONT HAVE PUTER, OR MAYBE THEY HAVE SUPPORT, OR MAYBE THEY ARE BUSY WRENCHING ON THE TRACTOR. I dont know. But I know I work way to damn hard for my money as do all farmers to let this tractor be sold without some sort of awarness. I could not and wont even sell this tractor to a private individual for a $1,000,000 but I will let lenar have it for bank payoff. It needs to go back to the Manufacturer, and the Manufacturer needs to go back to China. Not all chinese tractors are bad, but Lenar is far from the best. ....

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stan9284
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2004-05-27          86993

I thought that I would chime in with my thoughts… if the emotional side of this issue is put aside for a second, the primary issue is here is that Patrick has a tractor that isn’t working correctly and he wants to get it fixed. He has had trouble with determining where to take the tractor for repair because some dealers have said that they won’t work on it.

I find it hard to believe that there isn’t some diesel mechanic or dealer in Patrick’s area that won’t work on this thing. Lets hear from you guys, can you help Patrick out. I would try area Jinma dealers or dealers of grey market tractors in the area. If you show them that they will be paid for it there should be lots of takers. I have a failsafe warranty and from what I was told with my warranty, you can take your tractor to any dealer to work on it, even if they don’t accept the failsafe warranty. If they don’t take the warranty they said that they would reimburse you for payment. People will work for “cash on the barrelhead”. And Ben has already said that Lenar would supply the parts.

Regardless of the situation with the original dealer, this should get the tractor repaired.
....

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hick11h1369
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2004-05-27          86998

you would think so, I have contacted several mechanics, the problem that I am running into is that they are unfamiliar with Lenar and getting parts, I tried to tell them that I can put them in touch with lenar and the parts dept. I also said I could pay for labor, the mechanics that I have talked to are afraid of the tractor and dont want to take a job that they are not sure that they can fix, ie liability and their desire to make sure that the customer is happy with the work. I am sure that I could fix this thing myself, but what is really broken is the way that Lenar and its dealers are structured. Owning any tractor is a job, theres busted knuckles and sweat in keeping a tractor in working order, no matter the brand, but some of us spend extra money to cover repairs and we at least expect to have some support when we are talking about a new machine. This tractor has low low hours on it. These problems shouldnt exist in the tractor with respect to the age of it, the manufacturer you would think would have wanted to resolve this problem long ago, that is what I am talking about, lack of support. What LENAR means to me is L eaky E ngine N eeds A R epair ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-05-27          87012

Hello again, I hate to make a mistake but apparently I have, that mistake was making the statement that my ex dealer is selling Kama's. I must have gotten my wires crossed. Jim Travioli is not selling anything, he is completely out of business. He contacted me to set me straight on that. I said it before and I will say it again, he did what he could to help me and honor his obligations with this tractor. But I think if the truth be told, this tractor, or this brand of tractor put him out of business. Jim, I am sorry for the mistake. ....

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Toller
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2004-05-31          87368

Patrick-

I've read this entire thread. While I certainly wouldn't wish this on anyone, I am left wondering just what your goal is. If you truly are seekling a redress in terms of monetary damages, then you need to seek the assistance of a private attorney to investigate the filling of a lawsuit. If you are simply trying to damage the business enterprise of Lenar, then you need to report this to the Michigan Attorney General so that they can consider whether there are any options that would allow them to move against Lenar (and this warranty group) to close the business.

No matter the motive, posting on an electronic bulletin board doesn't contain any of the elements to either goal.

OTOH, if you simply get a high from telling the story, that's fine too but please realize that it won't really get you to either of the other goals.

BTW, the law is still being decided on the issues of public disparagement of a business in Internet conversation groups. There's a significant set of cases in the Eastern District of NY initially styled as Novak v. APD in which a business has filed suit against people for statements less damning than yours. While I think Novak will likely not prevail, a lawsuit is a lawsuit and lawsuits cost money...even to win in defense.

....

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Harryg
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2004-05-31          87372

Patrick, I am sorry for all your problems but going on and on is not going to settle anything unless you have a vendetta on your adgenda. You have obviously had problems but you insist that your dealer is not responsible. Parking in front of an innocent dealer with a "lemon" posted on your tractor does nothing but hurt an innocent business, Oh yes I do know about this. I had a dis-satisfied owner park in front of my place of employment with a BIG LEMON sign on his truck. We didn't sell it to him, he bought it up by the Canadian border for a few hunderd less but no support. All he accompliched was hurting a few salespersons commissions due to loss of sales, this in turn hurts the service dept prep personell. We went on as our reputation was good but nontheless it was a irritant that we did not deserve or have any part of. After all was said/done he didn't get a buy-back and asked if we would work on his truck. Of course we were wary but did so anyways. End result he admitted he should have first bought from reputable dealer in first place. But he did cost some of the sales/prep people money due to lost sales due to no fault of theirs. Think before you decide to park in front of some place of business, the people you hurt are those on the bottom. ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-01          87410

Hello, well as you may already know, I did not go to Indiana this weekend, my wife had a better way of making me feel better, but it does not mean that I am going to let this go. I have contacted several people in Michigan to state my complaint, red tape is a mess, and of course, Lenar knows this, the consumer really is hindered by the legal stuff, but I do know, that speaking the truth is not a crime, I guess you could say having four tractors that were defective is bad, but to actually be able to see it, well, then that would be like the dress of Monica.
To park it in front of a dealership after it has refused to work on a tractor that they sell, but did not sell that particular tractor, well that is bad business. But obviously, if they wanted business, then they would have agreed to work on it. Everyone says find a shadetree mechanic or one that wants business on the side, well, if the Dealers of Lenar wont work on it, then people need to know that these tractors are so bad that their own dealers dont want to work on them, and that means that there must be something more to these tractors than what is being said by the Lenar company. All I can see that Lenar is saying is that we have a tractor to sell you and that your dealer is totally comitted to any repairs or warranty work until you die. Even if he goes bankrupt, or commits suicide for picking Lenar tractors to sell, he is to repair it. If not him, then his surviving relatives or friends. If not them, then I dont know who, just dont call us at Lenar and tell us your problems, besides, you were the goof that bought the tractor, so it is your problem, not ours, we have enough of our own problems to sell without having to work on yours.
What is my goal? To let everyone know the trouble I have had with this tractor and this company. To let them know that the true value of a tractor is not in the sale price but the support after the sale. All tractors break, new or used, they break, the value comes from how easy it is to get the problem fixed.
Several people has asked what about my dealer, Well, like I said, I had my wires crossed when I said he was selling Kamas the truth is that he went under and in a big big way. When a man loses all due to an adventure in selling junk Lenar tractors, what more can he do????? ....

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fred
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2004-06-01          87461

To be fair, you cant expect another lenar dealer to work on your tractor for free! Why try to hurt him? He may be a very good dealer.

Sorry but I still think your dealer shafted you! With any chinese tractor their will be some fixes needed here and their, but most aren't very bad. He obviously wasn't prepared to do anything.

I still don't understand. If all lenar tractors are junk, how do explain an operation like cooper tractors and all the compliments and good words we have heard about them.

Other than you, all I have heard is positive feedback from lenar owners. I think with chinese tractors you have to be able to rely on your dealer.

Sorry about your misfortune, but I don't think going around trying to put people out of business is the answer. Is your goal putting lenar out of business? Even if you do succeed, what are you doing to all the lenar buyers who have good dealers. They would then be stuck with no way of getting parts and no one to work on them.

You should be hoping lenar gets big, then requires their dealers to work on all lenars, and in turn raises the resell value of the tractor.
I wish you luck. ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-02          87494

Hello again, I do not expect anybody to do anything for FREE. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. The failsafe warranty that I have will reimburse any dealer/mechanic that will work on the tractor, or at least that is what it says. Second of all, the tractor is still under the manufactures warranty, third, I was having problems with the tractor before the 6 month warranty ran out. I guess, I am going on with this because of my principal belief, that is, if I was a dealer for Lenar, then regardless of what the contract says, I am a Lenar Dealer and a Lenar Mechanic for all Lenar tractors. I am sure that the company pays for labor, and if not, there is the extended warranty, and of course you dont get rich by not working and turning away business. If I was selling Lenars and they kept comming back to me due to factory defects, then I would quit selling a product that is of poor poor quality and workmanship and start selling a product that I would be proud to stand behind but I would continue to service the tractors. If you think about it, I did not post a complaint with any of the tractors or the problems that I was having until my support was cut off. Again, a tractor is only as good as the support that the company has for it. And in Michigan, I have found no support, but they had the right idea of selling them here. You see, Michigan has more register boats than any other state, and if I was a Lenar distributor, knowing that these tractors get shipped out in crates, or a makeshift basket, thus making them basket cases, you would have to figure that there would be some boaters that could recycle the tractor and use it as a heavy duty anchor when it breaks down. Unfortunatley, with the luck that I have had with the tractor, I would be afraid to use it for that purpose myself, because it probably would rust and fall apart before it hit the bottom of a 35 ft lake. I asked nicely for support from Lenar and instead of support, I got let down. I have gotten the brush off, sent on a wild goose chase calling mechanics that have little or no idea of Lenar. If Lenar does not like this negative publicity, (which they dont, which is why they changed their website so people cant post there either) then why not call me, and satisfy this situation. The publicity is hurting business for the small dealers thus resulting in less tractors being imported by Lenar, but I really think that the Lenar tractor will be phased out here shortly and Taskmaster will replace it, why? because Mazama Products imports Lenar and Taskmaster and I have heard that there are some import troubles with Lenar already. I do not think I am being unfair or unreasonable, I have had four Lenars, all had problems, I hope that Lenar never sells another tractor in the US again. I will not put them out of business, their own business practices will. If Lenar cared about its dealers or reputation, they would shut me up, but they dont care. One difference between Lenar and a Tonka toy is the tonka toy doesn drip oil every where it goes. ....

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John_S
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2004-06-02          87502

Quote: "If Lenar cared about its dealers or reputation, they would shut me up, but they dont care."

Looking at it from a $ point of view, when you finally irritate them enough, they will most likely spend 10K or more for a lawyer to shut you up, than set a pressadent for every time someone whines on the net. Most boards, forums, and hosting companies will delete the offending posts immediately on receit of possible litigation.

JohnS ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-02          87505

Why would they spend 10,000.oo when the payoff for the tractor is only 9000.00. Just another sign of educated stupidity. ....

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John_S
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2004-06-02          87517

Well, sorry for making the 1K mistake. I am not about to reread all your posts to varify. All, I was trying to point out is, they will not set a precident that will leave them open for future attacks and future payoffs. It is not unheard of, for a corp to spend much more than the individual payout, to prevent future impacts.

You have made your point. Your plan is to post whatever it takes to get the outcome you want and only focus on the particular points that help your case. While you say you can not get in trouble for posting the truth, you have also posted beyond what you know as the truth. You have stated an EPA issue with Lenar and TaskMaster will be replacing the Lenar line, and so on. This could certainly be damaging to Lenar, and possibly not founded in any truth at all.

Good Luck with your vendetta.
....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-02          87519

I know that I have offended some people by putting in writing what I have experienced. I know that there are dealers out there that treat their customers the way Jim treated me. The problem with the tractor is that there are alot of deficiencies right off the line with them, they need the support to correct them in the plant before being shipped and support after the sale. The point I am trying to make is, how long will that support be there. Chipuren, made the offer of replacing the engine, if Lenar paid for it even though he does not sell Lenars. This is what I am talking about and it is becomming even more apparent with each post. Why would Lenar let this go on without getting somebody to try to fix a problem that they know that they are responsible for. And everyday, it seems like the tractor developes new problems. Like yesterday, I came home and my wife said the tractor wont move. I went out in the field and the tractor was in 1st gear. I started it, and it would not budge at all, just stalled when the clutch was let out. I tried to take it out of first and it the lever would not move. I had to put the differential into neutral, then take it out of 1st, start the tractor, put the differential back into gear, and then put the tractor into first. It does this every so often. Like it is in 1st and reverse. It has done this when I have shifted to reverse in the past as well. Can anyone tell me why or what causes this?? These are things that I am talking about. How much trouble should a guy have with a new machine????? And while I am working on the tractor, or checking the oil everyday so I dont burn it up, I wonder why a company would not want to fix this. I have just wrote what troubles I have had, the bank has no trouble in getting a payment out of me, why should I have any trouble with getting service from the company that imports them.
BTW, I have contacted the Attorney General of Michigan, and I have stated the problems with the support of this machine, I also have stated the obvious safety problems as well. They say the squeaky wheel gets the grease, sooner or later this will have to be looked at. I look at how many people has viewed the boards and that could mean that some of those were thinking of buying a tractor. When Ford was having the tire problems with the explorer, no matter how big the blowout sale was at the dealership, explorers took a hit until the problem was fixed. People want support, Lenar should give it. ....

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kubotaguy
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2004-06-02          87521

I think it is time to close this thread as nothing is being accomplished by it. ....

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John_S
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2004-06-02          87524

Quote: "BTW, I have contacted the Attorney General of Michigan, and I have stated the problems with the support of this machine, I also have stated the obvious safety problems as well. They say the squeaky wheel gets the grease, sooner or later this will have to be looked at."

Well, did they indicate any state laws that were broken and recommend further legal action, or that they commited to an investigation?
....

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Murf
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2004-06-02          87525

The "up-wind bladder drain" alarm just went off, that means everybody should evacuate this thread immediately, please remain calm and quietly click the "back" button on your browser and ignore any future posts here.

Your cooperation is appreciated and thank you for surfing TractorPoint dot com. ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-02          87533

I wish the law moved quickly enough to give you some info on your question. What they did tell me is that with a product being sold, such as the tractor and the warranty that the person buying it should get something for there money. They are investigating it, there will be a complaint filed and they will assist in any arbitrary proceedings if there is any. John S and Murf, it is good that you can make light of this situation since I see that you (murf) like your kubota and apparently got your moneys worth. John S, I really dont know whos side you are on, but you both have to be honest enough to say that what I am stuck with is the short end of the stick, at least for right now I am. I did have a legitimate question about the transmission getting stuck. Has this happened to any other gear tractor???? ....

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LenarFan
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2004-06-02          87535

I own a Lenar tractor and am very very pleased with it's overall performance and durability. My dealer (Elliot MAINE)has been extremely supportive even beyond his warranty responsibilities. I've had some minor issues .....an inaccurate fuel gauge, a headlight high beam issue and a couple of other very minor things that needed tweaking. All issues have been resolved completely to my satisfaction.

Just wanted to chime in here about this thread and Patricks (hick11h1369)situation.

Being just my take on this whole thing and not necessarily right or wrong....It seems that there is WAY too much emotion in Patricks comments and facts mixed in with rumor and assuption.
Overall...not helping him or anyone at all. REVENGE seems to be the goal at this point...fueled by frustration and feelings of being taken.

Bsically sick of hearing the whining and bad mouthing...no matter if you feel it justified or not. The tone alone has an aura of "PAYBACK". Not a justified and mutual solution between you and Lenar.

Like I said earlier..I may be wrong" but this is my opinion only.

Good luck
Mike ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-02          87538

Well, I will answer your question why my out of business dealer wont help. He is not a mechanic. What he is doing now, I dont know. As for the Yamaha mechanic, if he turned away Yamaha owners, they probably would ride a tricycle before they bought anything from him. I am sure turning away people with the same brand costs a company a future sale. The guy with the excellent Lenar, Would you want to trade, and take this one to your dealer????
I will get this fixed, I know it will take alot of time and money to make this company to stand up. You think I am out for revenge, when I started this, I just wanted it fixed. That was too simple of a solution. When I bought this, I could have sold at least 4 of these machines to guys I work with because of the price and being involved with ford, I work at a ford plant. Now I would have to pay them to look at this machine, no one can believe the practices of this company. It will be a long long time before a Lenar or Taskmaster will ever be sold in Milan. Maybe I will find a mechanic that will work with Failsafe and Lenar, I have to keep this machine running, if it doesnt run, nobody could steal the damn thing. ....

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Murf
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2004-06-02          87539

My object Patrick was NOT to slight you or your problem.

I realize that you have a legitimate beef about a product you paid good money for.

My point was two-fold, first, at 70+ posts everything necessary has been brought up, secondly, this si not the forum to achieve your goals.

You accomplished what this board, IMHO, is for, you pointed out something important.

Your energies and frustration is probably going to do a LOT more good directed to say for example, a letter writing campaign, or setting up your own website to shame the company into fixing your machine. It is very simple and easy to put together your own website, there are many places out there where you can a site hosted for free. If you email a 'media alert' (press release) to newspapers and radio / tv stations many of them will follow up with you and cover it, this is free publicity too.

Simply put, nothing more will be accomplished by re-hashing it all here, just more flared tempers, something NOBODY here wants or needs.

Best of luck. ....

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hick11h1369
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2004-06-02          87544

Your Right Murf, that is really what I want, my machine fixed. I can get hot headed, my record shows that. I am frustrated, angry, and dissapointed in this tractor and the company. My dealer, hell, he lost his farm trying to make things right, and Mazama and Lenar keep doing business as usual. I have a right to get angry, the hardest thing is being able to get angry at the right people. For those that know me as a person, I am a good person and would give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. I am naive to think that because I am that way, everybody should be. I get angry when I know that I have been wronged and there is a mountain of red tape to go through to make it right. I did not mean to offend those that tried to help me, but to those that think that Mazama and Lenar are not responsible, well, I am sure I can come up with a few choice words to them. But, this board did do its job, it did give me a place to vent, ambition to contact other sources and I hope all this did get through to those thinking about buying a new tractor from a new company. Maybe some more good will come of this. Thanks ....

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2004-06-02          87560

Why did you buy from a dealer with no mechanic? That is a problem waiting to happen.

Was the dealer so naive as to think he would never have to fix anything. You should have forced him to fix yours instead of accepting one with a lower quality loader anyway. What did he do with the other tractors?

Or you sure he didn't make a quick profit and then decide not to honor his committments?

....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-06-03          87630

well, to answer your question, I read the advertisments on the internet about Lenar tractors. I felt that from reading there ads that the tractor would give me at least a couple of yrs of trouble free use. I did not think to ask him if he was a certified mechanic, it was him and an older gentlemant putting these tractors together. They had a nursery business and he lived on site. I felt that since this was his home, he would be there to help with any future repairs, which he was, under the dealers warranty.
At the time of purchase, I just purchased the acreage for my horse farm, I had a lot of fencing to do, some dirt to move, ect. This was why I thought I was making the right decision to buy a new machine, I am a Millwright, and a farmer with new land and a new home being built. I did not have the time for any setbacks from breakdowns from a used machine, so I bought a new one. Jim replaced the machines when they broke or had problems that would not go away, that is what I expect for my money, SERVICE, when the tractor broke in half, he gave me the option of letting him fix it, which he said would take 3-4 weeks, or accept a new machine, I really did not think that the change in a loader would make a difference since it accepted all the other attachments, so I accepted the different tractor with a different loader, but through use, I found I was wrong. I had the perception that the Lenar tractor would be serviced by any mechanic. You see the sale of a product is split into two realms. One is perception, the other is reality. When a sales company such as Lenar advertises such things as Ford backed, QC quality, WARRANTY, and such, it gives the buyer the perception that he is purchasing a quality product. Four Lenars later, the other realm sets in, the realm of reality, and that is that "You just bought into a bunch of Horse $#$%." My dealer went belly up, and to be honest with all of you, I feel that he has been taken by Lenar as well. The way I would conduct business if I were to sell Lenar Tractors, is I would sell them only if Ben agreed to stay in the store with me. And then for every Lenar tractor that I sold that came back with a manufactures defect, I would slap the $#$% right out of Ben, and fix the tractor. Sooner or later, this way of doing business would get the manufacturer to improve on quality, or get Ben to stop importing scrap steel. ....

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fred
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2004-06-03          87667

I am having a hard time believing what you are saying. Basically you say, " that all lenar tractors are junk".

How do you expalin the fact that every other lenar owner who has posted, seemed to be pleased. I even researched old post from lenar owners, both hear and on one of the other boards. And well, they seem pleased with the tractor.

So this leads me to think that either you did not know what to expect with a chinese tractor, and or your dealer did not assemble them correctly, and or you are overexxagerating your problems.

Where does it appear to be leaking oil? Is it hydralic oil or engine oil.

....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2004-06-04          87709

I have said that I have had four of them that were junk, four of them in a row. I am sure that if enough of these tractors are made, that there would be some good ones. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while. What makes the Lenar to be a bad purchase is LACK OF SUPPORT. At least in my area, there is no support. The other thing that makes them a bad purchase is that Lenar Dealers are under no contract or obligation to service any other Lenar tractor. That means you are playing russian roulette when you buy, because nobody can say that they will sell Lenars for the rest of their life. With no support, the tractor is a bad buy.
To answer your question about the oil, it is engine oil and it seems to be comming mainly from the oil filter assembly. NOT the oil filter but the oil filter mounting assembly that bolts to the block. That is the worse case. The whole block though seems to be sweating engine oil, from the variuos seales and gaskets. The oil presure guage reads on the low side at idle and then damn near in the red at operating speeds.
The other question, was about the transmission, what would cause it to just lock up on occasion. It is like I am in two gears at the same time and the tractor will just stall. Anybody had this problem??? ....

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Moulder
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12 Aus
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2005-09-10          116179

Thanks everyone its been very interesting so far, I am learning a lot about conflicts and how not to handle them.
I have been in the industry for some time now and I have seen things like this play out in the past, so I am keen to see how this one concludes.

I don't think Hick will make too much difference to Lenar sales in the US, because I think he has created a negative image for him self, that most people would find affensive and would be inclined to distrust him. On the up side this lesson may educate dealers to rectify any potential ploblems before they get out of hand and also proves that a decent pre-delivery is very important and the correct fitting of the correct implements is parramount. (Come on continual blown main hydraulic hose, where is the relief valve and who set it??)

As for Hick's experience , hopefully customers have learnt that they should check the background and reputation of a dealer before buying a unknown quantity, just because they seem like a top guy doesn't mean they know what they are doing.
The best way to check them out is to get a list of previous customers from them (at least 6) contact them and check the level of satifaction and quality of the product.If you can't get a list then be suspicious.

This kind of dispute goes on all around the world with all brands of cars,trucks and machinery, imported from all parts of the world ,its not restricted to chinese tractors. I could point out many known faults with a lot of the big names, but I doubt the need for mud slinging.

In the end it is my expierience that some people will never be happy, every thing they do will somehow always turn to shit, unfortunetaly, they will live and die that way. ....

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tsterkel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 45 Texas
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2005-09-15          116430

Moulder,
I am gratified that there is a change at Lenar. I look forward to "HICK" reporting on how the new regime took care of his obvious problems before I go ahead with my Lenar purchase. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2005-09-16          116498

Hello Moulder and all else who is following this dispute.
Again, this is Patrick Webb, I may not be posting but I am following any comments. I will update what is going on with this tractor problem that I am having. Lenar tractor has been bought by an outfit out of Texas, the owner and co owner, has made a trip all the way from Tx to Michigan to veiw, and take pics of this tractor. They were all too disgusted with the quality of the previous tractors that have been made, and they have made revamp their quality control before purchasing the company. They are steadfast at improving the quality of the Lenar, and they have given me reason to believe that they will replace this tractor with the newest model in late october, this is the agreement between me and them. They are currently working on improving logistics for the company and they have made me believe that the only thing that they want from Lenar tractors is that every customer is a SATISFIED CUSTOMER. I do believe that they are sincere in making the Lenar tractor a reliable piece of equiptment and a smart purchase for their customers.
As for you Moulder, I am uncertain what you mean by saying that I am a liar. I have no interest in wasting my time speading false statements. What I have posted is all true. As far as hurting the company by making these posts, I think I have adressed issues that needed to be adressed and that the company has seen that I am a customer that has been subjected to poor customer support, poor mechanical support, false marketing, and tractors that may have been set up poorly by an inexperienced dealer. I do know that my posts have made changes as to the way Lenar does business with customers and I feel that other companies are making sure that they take an extra step to bettering customer relations. I may not have bankrupted Lenar, but I have definatly given them a black eye and have given some potential customers reasons to go and buy a mule before a Lenar tractor. Was I or am I upset with the tractor. Yes, did I have a right to be, YES. Was there problems to be adressed, YES. This site is a great site because it has helped alot to correct this problem. By the way Moulder, how would you have handled this problem, please educate us. We all would like to know the fastes and easiest way to get our moneys worth out of a company that has the mentality of "IT'S YOUR PROBLEM NOW". This was basicly the attitude of Lenar BEFORE I took the problems to the eyes of the public. ....

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moulder
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2005-09-23          116826

Hi , good news I hope it can all be worked out. This is a rare case, I can only make assumptions, but it should never have gone this far the dealer has a lot to answer to. The cheapest price is not always the best deal. For starters we spend 4 to 6hrs on pre-delivery on a new jap tractor. On a Chinese tractor we spend up to 10hrs (after assembly) change all the oils,replace doubtful fuel hoses and seals (diesels just don't like air leaks), replace the seal in the hydraulic pump, adjust, check and test the operation of everthing (thoroughly). If its a model or brand we haven't sold before we give it at least a 2hr workout and run it through all its paces if we are doubtfull we will not pass it on to a customer. When fitting a front end loader one of the most important things is to set the preasure relief valve correctly, Chinese tractors can be a bit tricky becauce of the way the system is set up. Most have a priority valve to distrubute the hyd flow /press between the power steering and the 3 point hyd, I have seen some disasters when people get this mixed up. The other thing is to make sure the loader is not to large and heavy for the machine, the mountings are just as important, if doubtfull a subframe or rails should be ran back and mounted to the rear axle. A dealer in NSW Australia selling eastwind a.k.a Dongfang, sent out a few of these disasters , when it came to warranty and after sales service he left his customers high and dry. These kinds of dealers give all tractor dealers especialy chinese tractor dealers a very bad name. It also helps to do some product testing before marketing a tractor to Iron out any bugs, its not a good idea to let a customer do this as they will be understandably very pissed off. Regards, Moulder. ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2006-01-29          123721

Hello all, this is Patrick Webb again, and yes I am as moulder described it, (VERY PISSED OFF). You see, the reason I have not been posting in the last yr, is because I have been having many correspondance with Lenar dealer, ie Roger Powell in oregon and Rocky from Tx who I understand is the main man now in the states. They basicly told me to stay off the websites and allow them to satisfy this problem, Rocky came all the way from Tx to look at my tractor and admitted to the tractor not being up to standard or quality. He said he would REPLACE IT. So I have sat patiently waiting and talking with him about this matter and I have learned through him that the Lenar tractors have been suffering other MAJOR BREAKDOWNS due to the poor quality of the axles. Apparently, they have been breaking them too. Well, when the deal was supposed to materialize, it was going to cost me 5500.00 for the new tractor. I am pissed at this because of the problems I have had with the tractor and this company from the start, I feel that the tractor should have been replaced, granted this was a larger model he was replacing it with, but damn, I have money invested in the tractor that has cost me money time and agrivation beyond all repair. And frankly, I am not to motivated to spend another 5500.00 for a tractor from a company that all I have recieved from is problems and faulty equiptment. I might be willing to sign a deal saying I will pay this amount if it can go a total of 500 hrs without ANY PROBLEMS, but I will not just swap tractors to the tune of 5500.00. That would be absurd to do when in my oppinion this could all start over again with the new and improved lenar. I have also read posts where people feel like I was hit with a restraining order to shut up, no that is not the case, it was a deal that I said I would do, if they took care of me, in which they have not. The next steps will be just what I promised. I want a working tractor. That is what I want and I want it from Lenar. I want them to give me what I thought I was buying in the first place. I wish they would though hit me with a gag order or some lawsuit, just so my situation could be told in the court of law. I want 12 people tell me that I should be happy with the four tractors that failed. YOUR HONOR, I PLEA 13&1/2 THAT IS 12 JURORS,1 JUDGE AND A HALF A CHANCE. I am here, and I have never left.
Best regards,
Patrick Webb
....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-01-29          123723

You have to keep on them. if you don't they will assume you have gone away. Call every day. If you can afford it take trips to there office. Again I hope you will soon find your self in a better situation then you are now. TO me Lenar has proven there self to be a very sub par company. I would not recommend ANY one buy one of these units unless every thing to the last warranty detain is in writing and stating the ANY selling dealer will work on it. ....

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tsterkel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 45 Texas
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2006-01-30          123833

Ok,
I waited for months to see if the "new guys" at Lenar would fix the problems with the existing Lenar tractors "in the field" as evidence that they were up to minimal contractor standards. I have not seen any such evidence.

Glad I went with a grey market Kubota, from RCO Tractor, very happy camper. ....

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tsterkel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 45 Texas
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2006-01-30          123835

another item. Probably being over sensitive, but even before the PC-age, the term "Jap" always rubbed me the wrong way. After they became our allies, my pacific-theatre WWII veteran dad consciously worked on dropping "jap" in favor of "japanese." ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2006-01-31          123840

I'm a baby-boomer too (1948), and son of a Pacific Theater grunt as well. But I would definitely classifiy your "concern" as over-sensitive. Or are your sensibilities offended by "Yank" and "Ami" and "Brit" and "Eye-Tie" and "Rusky" as well? I find it most disconcerting that only English-speaking nations seem to affected by the PC-virus, and I'd die a happy man to see this ludicrous mentality disappear in my lifetime.

Oh - and to keep this post within the tractor venue - Lenar are actually made in China.

//greg// ....

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wes-oregon
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2006-03-09          125907

Im glad to see all the post's of the lenar tractor. altho it leaves me wondering if I should be in the market for this brand? I just came from a drive by of the dealer in this are and searched the web sight but can not find where the have any info on priceing. I dont like to be taken by somefast talking dealer trying to get the big bucks. I was looking at a JL254 11 w/loader. I am thinking I will look else where. thanks to all.
wes ....

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40acrenomule
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1 USA
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2006-03-28          126814

We will have to look elsewhere for a tractor also Wes.

My fiance was looking at the Lenar LE354 to work our property, but I know that he will not take a chance with bad service/warranty issues like this after I tell him what I have read. I usually do all the research on major purchases and this kind of quality and service is ridiculous.

Also, $12000 is a lot of money to spend on something that could possibly break on you within a year and you do not have any recourse to get it fixed. We do not have that kind of money to throw away after buying our land.

We wanted to buy a tractor within the year and we could with the Lenar prices, but I think we will have to put things on hold and wait until next year to get a quality "Name Brand" tractor.



....

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grmpy118
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2 pa
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2006-08-13          133255

Patrick, I am currently having the same issue with the FWD, however my lever does go in and I even opened up the case to see it engage. It doesnt just operate in 4WD, I still have to try the cleaning trick and relube. Is there a issue with one of the gears that I might be able to check.
//Mike// ....

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hick11h1369
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 52 michigan
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2006-08-20          133525

Hello Mike,
My problem with the FWD was just that little ball bearing on the shift lever. The detent was drilled too deep. I removed the ball and have not had any trouble with it going in or comming out of FWD, but without the ball, the lever will work its way out of FWD and I have to re-engage it. The other problem I have had with the trans is that sometimes when I go to put it into gear, it will act like it is in first and reverse at the same time, kinda like the PARK possition on your car, and when I let the clutch out, it will bind up and stall quickly. I normally have to put it in neutral, rock on the tractor a little and then put it into gear. In a few yrs I am sure that they will get these problems corrected and they will be just as good as a worn out John Deere. Good luck with your tractor. ....

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Moulder
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12 Aus
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2007-09-17          145805

I HAVE THE BEST TIP YOU WILL EVER GET!!!

Whether buying a Lenar or new Turkish Case or a Japanese John Deere!..... Always ask for a list of customers that own the model or series you are looking at (at least 3 People) If the dealer can not supply a list or they seem dubious, THEN DO NOT BUY THE TRACTOR!! This will achieve two things 1. confirm the quality of the tractor and 2. the quality of service you can expect from the dealer.

This small bit of research may save you a world of trouble.

Happy shopping and enjoy tractor-ing! ....

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mitchan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1 Texas
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2007-10-31          147604

I have Lenar EL254 4WD that will not go into 4WD. Can you tell me where this detent ball is? ....

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grmpy118
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2 pa
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2007-10-31          147605

The detent ball is on the left side of the machine right behind the lever, look close it is there. As mentioned in earlier posts you can loosen the lever and it will fall out, or try and clean the casing out. ....

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jasontachell
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4 oregon
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2011-03-11          177330

Did you ever get a replacement tractor? I have been looking like mad for a manual for our taskmaster sn304. it has taskmaster stickers and shenniu emblems. ....

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