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Can gasoline pickup be converted to burn E-85

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-12-05          120406

E-85 outlets are becoming more common so it would be nice to be able to use it. I'm not really ready to trade pickups for an E-85 ready one so I wondered first of all what is different about the fuel system and second if there is a kit or something to convert my pickup an 04 Chevy small V8. Thanks. Frank.

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-12-07          120601

I see no one has responded yet. I've not heard of a kit to convert over to E85. E85 may require different gasket materials, etc in your engine. At the least, it probably requires different timing and possibly different fuel injectors. Have you done an internet search? Or checked out the automotive boards? ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2005-12-07          120603

What is E 85? Is that Ethanol? ....

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Can gasoline pickup be converted to burn E-85

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hardwood
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2005-12-07          120614

E85 is 85% Ethanol/15% gasoline. No I haven't checked any other boards, but I will. If it's a pricey deal to convert then I'll just wait till truck trading time. At one time there was no extra charge for E85 ready pickups from the factory, if that is still the case I'll just wait till I trade. Frank. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2005-12-07          120617

Depending on the age of the vehicle there may need to be a lot of small changes. Ethanol will have a high percentage of water and can be corrosive. I think the brass fittings can be a problem depending on the type used. ....

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Iowafun
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2005-12-08          120678

Peter's response was what I am most concerned with. The ethanol can dry out gaskets and seals that were not made of materials design to handle it. Then they dry out, crack and bad can things happen. That's one of my concerns. Another is the timing adjustments to reduce the risk of premature ignition which can cause damage depending on the severity. Ethanol also doesn't contain as much "go" power as pure gasoline so adjsutments to injectors, etc may be necessary.

Basically, I have more concerns and questions than I have answers for you. ....

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hardwood
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2005-12-08          120681

Thanks for filling me in on the problems I would have without lots of gasket and injector changes. I'll just wait till next pickup trade time. Till this past season I had grown corn all my working life and what with the huge corn piles in almpost every cornbelt town I'd like to do my part to use up the extra corn and not be quite so dependent on foreign oil sources who have mainly their wellfair in mind not ours. There are quite a number of new ethanol plants in the building or startup stage right now, so it seems to be here to stay. Frank. ....

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Iowafun
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2005-12-09          120734

I hear ya. I've considered looking into building a small bio-diesel producing unit in my shop. I've heard reports of people doing that for their personal use at reasonable expense. I run diesel so that would be an option for me. But then I lack the time to build it and operate it. But there is talk of a bio-diesel plant being built within 20 miles of me. ....

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AV8R
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2005-12-09          120735

Maybe you guys can clarify something for me.

I have been told that Ethanol (which is also used in the making of biodiesel) is a net energy loss to produce. Meaning, it takes more energy to produce than it gives off as a fuel. Is there any truth to this?
....

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Peters
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2005-12-09          120743

Look at the other thread we had on ethanol I think someone posted a link. I recall the net energy gain is not as much as you think or would like but is positive.
It is like the oils sands, as the technology improves less energy is used and the energy gain increases. ....

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yooperpete
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2005-12-09          120744

Those against ethanol say that you must include the fossil fuel required to till, plant and harvest as well as refining it.

Oil is there already in the ground. We only need to drill for it, claim it and refine it. Those people usually forget the cost of shipping it half way across the world and the potential hazards involved when tankers leak in the ocean or when sand people torch the wells. Farmers are allot easier to get along with than sand people.

Ethanol may have its limitations and quality of ignition and other downsides. I'm for it. It is renewable and within control inside our country. We still however need to deal with all the lobyists whether they are oil guys or Archer-Daniels- Midland or whatever that is controlling the ethanol.

I just wish there were corn kernel burning cars and trucks. ....

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Peters
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2005-12-09          120746

Having looked at the new pellet/corn stoves with their quick start up, I was wondering the same thing. Could we be thinking of a new Stanley Steamer? ....

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yooperpete
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2005-12-09          120749

I think it was the November 30th issue of the Wall Stree Journal that had an article exposing how worthless hybrid vehicles are. Apparently toyota is laughing at us.

I was thinking a corn burning hybrid would work that worked on a low setting recharging batteries while sitting in parking lots, etc. The corn burner could run turbines or flywheels. If it had a boiler or someother device, could it plug into your home or business and run giving an energy credit when not in driving use! ....

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Peters
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2005-12-21          121507

Pete; I did not see the post earlier. Is that the post in the WSJ by Holman W. Jenkins Jr? I think Jenkins is the one laughing at us. I have read a couple of his articles and I don't think he has the were with all, to understand the problems or the technology. As he lives in the center of the metropolis and previously in Hong Kong it is likely he doe's drive much. His BA in literature and MA in journalism does not really make him an expert in technology in my opinion.
Although I am not an expert, I am a member of SAE. I have worked on materials for NiMH batteries and have one patent in the area. I helped pull apart the first Prius to hit American shores years ago for analysis. I agree the technology used in the hybrids is not perfect, but neither is the logic used by Jenkins. I can say the technology has advanced since the first model.
Personally I think the MIT review puts a truer prospective on Hybrid technology.
They are talking about taking your fuelcell car home and pugging it into the electrical grid.
Personally I think the clean diesel makes better sense, then again clean diesel and hybrid technology may do even better. ....

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Can gasoline pickup be converted to burn E-85

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-12-22          121537

Frank, I came across this on a fabrication board I belong to.

Apparently you can buy a micro-chip thing-ama-bobble to convert almost any vehicle to run on E-85 or almost anything else now.

Have a look and see what you think.

(This is not an endorsement, I only found the site through the owner Brad Miller, I have nothing to do with it.)

Best of luck. ....


Link:   The Fuel Man

 
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Can gasoline pickup be converted to burn E-85

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2005-12-22          121538

Thanks Murf, I'll give it a look. Frank. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-12-22          121550

Murf, that was a VERY interesting link. What interested me the most was the still kits. Unless you used wood or solar power for heating the still; I just don't see how it would be economical to produce alcohol but they sure did have some nice kits! The pay back period to justify the cost of the still would probably exceed the life of the automobile unless you were making very large quantities and selling it for a profit it that were possible. On the other hand, you could really have some fun experiementing with different blends of sour mash to develop a favorite drinking whiskey! ;O) ....

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Murf
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2005-12-22          121552

Randy, I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I buy a kit, then I buy corn and propane, then all the time and effort to make it.

Unless you count alcohol production as a hobby I can't see a reason for doing it myself.

Homemade (reprocessed) bio-diesel is another story. I have a neighbour at the farm who collects and reprocessed a LOT of gallons of WVO every week. He uses it himself, in both his truck, and his 80's Mercedes car, and also blends it with convectional dino-diesel in the big trucks that his sons drive for a living.

He claims he is saving 10's of thousands a year doing so.


Best of luck. ....

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Chief
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2005-12-22          121553

I was thinking the same thing about WVO to biodiesel but even then unless you are making a LOT and I mean for a fleet. The costs of the the biodiesel processor can get into a prohibitive cost vs benefit too although it sure looks to be much more cost effective than the ethanol. I guess if you could scrounge around and find the components to make a biodiesel processor on the cheap it would be very cost effective; especially if you could find a high capacity source of WVO and make enough to sell to help recover start up costs. Sounds like it would be an interesting project to undertake. ....

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Chief
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2005-12-22          121554

I think this may be wondering a bit far off topic but another alternative fuel us tractor folks tend to ignore is the transmission/hydraulic fluid that we periodically change out. After letting it settle for a month or more, I mix it in with my diesel fuel or sometimes Kerosene when I can buy it cheaper than diesel. As long as you keep the mix to around 10% or less, it burns fine. Not only does this help extend my fuel dollars, it also is a very good method of disposing of waste oil. This can be done with waste motor oil but I would recommend filtering it good before mixing with the diesel. This might make a good subject matter for another thread for "Alternative Fuels". ....

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Murf
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2005-12-22          121555

The old guy says if it's filtered well you can run a 75% (dino-diesel) 25% straight WVO blend no problem at all.

He says in warm weather he runs (filtered) 100% WVO in his Mercedes all the time, no problem at all. All he did was make a heat exchanger to preheat the WVO using the water line that would normally run to the heater core.

I've also read in many other places of people merely giving WVO a real good filtering and pouring it straight into both diesel engines and oil furnaces as a blend with conventional fuels.

I know some of the 'diesel' fuel we have gotten in a few of the far off places we've done jobs was pretty marginal stuff. You lose horsepower, but the engine runs alright.

Might be worth an experiment in the old crane truck.

Best of luck. ....

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hardwood
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2005-12-22          121557

This man has some interesting things. I think the kit was 395.00 for my pickup. On the WVO subject, it seems there was someone not too far from here that was having a problem with the road tax issue. I never heard how it came out. Frank. ....

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Murf
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2005-12-22          121559

Frank, that's why they are blending it, especially in the commercially plated trucks.

There is an exemption that allows you to run up to a certain percentage of "additives" to the fuel. There is no road tax on 'additives' or 'fuel supplements'.

They are using the arguement that low sulphur diesel is hard on the engines, which it is, and so by running a 10% WVO 90% Dino-diesel blend it dramatically increases the lubricity of the fuel.

At least that's their story and they're sticking to it. ;->

I suspect if they were running high percentage of WVO they too would have some legal problems.

Trucking is a very slim margin industry, a fuel savings of a little more than 10% is a huge deal. They claim BTW, that the trucks actually get better mileage running a 90/10 blend.

Best of luck. ....

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hardwood
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2005-12-22          121560

My cousin burns a mix of fuel oil and waste oil in a converted oil furnace in his farm shop. I think all he did was change to a different nozzel size. There used to be a truck that came around once a year or so buying waste oil for ten cents a gallon for re refining. You had to have a minimum amount and a way to pump it on him. I haven't seen him for several years, so I don't know if they still do that or not. Lots of interesting things to discuss. Frank. ....

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