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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2007-10-24          147327

Hey ya'll! I got a question. I plan to use my 6ft woods brush cutter next week but I have never used it on a steep hill. What I want to do, I will try to explain. Anyone who can fill me in a real word experiance,advice, please chime in. I dont want to miss something and have this turn tradgic!
I have a horse shoe ridge surrounding a wet (future pond) area. The ridge is pretty steep. It has around a 40 deg angle and less. We are talking about a 20 foot horizontal run and it drops anywhere from 10 foot to 14 foot. What I am cutting is just briars,rasberry/blackberry bushes and long over grown, uncontrolled weeds and grass.
This being understood, I was planning on backing down and cutting on the way up. Is this feasable? How much of an angle would you back down before it gets scary/dangerous?

I figured since I never used it on a steep slope may some of you can fill me in on the real seat expeiances of this kind of work.


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crunch
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2007-10-24          147329

Can you back up from the bottom of the hill? I used to brush hog on steep hills for farmers when I was a kid. Keep looking forward and watch the nose of your tractor if you are going uphill. If you turn back to watch the chopper your front end may be airborne and you will never know it. The last thing you need is your tractor flipping over on top of you. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-10-24          147330

Brokenarrow,

You have the right idea in mind.

You will NEVER want to drive your tractor along the side slope. Backing down the bank, and then cutting the weeds on the way up, is the proper way to attack this problem.

If you have a loader on, make sure you keep your bucket as close to the ground as possible, without striking the soil, or other objects that may be in your path.

Use the lowest gear you have. If you have a hydrostatic transmission, select the lowest speed setting.

NEVER -EVER depress the clutch when going up or down the hill. ALWAYS keep it in gear. Use the brakes if you need to slow down, but DO NOT DEPRESS THE CLUTCH. Use 4-wheel drive, and always keep your front-end pointed straight uphill.

WEAR YOUR SEATBELT.

By backing down the bank, it will be all but impossible to tip over backward, as the rotary mower will stop you once it hits the upper limit of the 3-point hitch. You'll lose traction long before you tip over backward.

Worst case scenario...........

You back down the bank and the tractor doesn't have enough traction to get you back up. If this happens, DO NOT attempt to attack the bank at an angle in an attempt to get yourself out of the jam. You'll have to tow the tractor out, keeping the nose of the tractor pointed straight uphill at all times.


Your tractor may not have enough traction to get back up the slope, but you will not tip over backward.



Joel ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-10-25          147334

Put some weight in the FEL (wet dirt, rocks, etc.) and keep it low to the ground. Back down the hill cutting as you gothat way you're not getting brush stuck under the machine pulling on wires and filters or scratching the expensive parts. Keep the mower down on the way back up (doesn't matter if you keep it engaged). The mulched foliage and stubbled roots should provide traction and a bit of floatation if it's a bit wet. The reason for not lifting the cutter is that the weight will transfer better to the front where you'll need it---raising the cutter will will act like a counterweight and negate any weight in the FEL. Conversely, if you were backing up the hill front-end down, you would want the cutter raised to take advantage of the weight.

If you start to lose traction, don't try to get yourself out as you will likely bury it---try backing down the hill if you can, trun around and back up backward with the cutter raised.

I do a lot of this type of cutting and this has always worked for me, and I have no FEL. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-10-25          147336

Ok, I'm going to jump right in with both feet on this one!!!

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER try backing down a hill and driving back up!!! Did I mention NEVER do this? It's WAY TO DANGEROUS!!

You only ever want to negotiate a hill facing down-slope, this way if it loses traction and starts to slide you are at least not trying to learn how to steer in reverse at high speed at an awkward moment. Also, a nose downhill position puts the bulk of the weight where you want it, pointing downhill, not up where the difference in weight could cause you to turn halfway down, this almost always results in a barrel roll!

The only two safe ways to do it are;

1) reverse SLOWLY up the hill, stop at the top, and drive SLOWLY back down while cutting,

or (and the safest but slowest) 2) find the shallowest part of the slope, or a spot where you can easily circle around to the top, then SLOWLY drive down while cutting, and then circle back around to the top and cut the next swath.

In the second method you are limiting your work on the slope to half the time (down only) and in the safest possible direction, straight downhill, and facing downhill.

Also, if at all possible, wait until past noon to do it whenever possible, you absolutely want to be sure there is no dew or moisture left on the slope. For maximum traction you want it as dry as possible. If you cannot manage to achieve much traction, and you have them, put snow chains on the back wheels for extra grip.

Finally, pay attention to the 'seat of the pants pucker-factor' if you don't feel comfortable, don't do it!! You cannot pay full attention to something when you're that nervous.

Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-10-25          147337

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF TRACTOR SAFETY.

See the link below.

Joel ....


Link:   TRACTOR SAFETY

 
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mobilus
Join Date: Jul 2007
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2007-10-25          147342

Murf, I have to respectfully disagree. I think Joel and EW are on point here. I do a lot (I mean a lot of bush hogging) and there are times when you need to cut all the way down to the bottom of the slope, and backing down is the only way to do it. I also believe that there is a world of difference between a gear tranny and an HST in tackling slopes. I'm way more comfortable on a tractor with HST when bush-hogging. In the end, my advice is to take your time, learn to read the lay of the land and how your equipment handles it. As previously stated, if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. There have been several times that I have had to tell customers that my equipment, my real job, and my life are worth much more to me than the possibility of an accident caused by trying to do something beyond reason and capability. ....

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Murf
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2007-10-25          147343

I might point out an excerpt from "The Ten Commandments of Tractor Safety" that Joel linked to, under the section "Hillsides" they say this;

"If you have to go up a slope, it is best to back up.".

Or is Kubota wrong too?

With all due respect, you might well have some bush-hogging experience, but that doesn't mean that the way it's done is right, or the best way to do it.

If we are here to inform people, it is best they be informed the RIGHT way to do it.

Best of luck. ....

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mobilus
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2007-10-25          147345

Murf, just because I disagree doesn't mean that I want to get into any urinary jousting here.

And yes, Kubota can be wrong...so can any other brand. These guides are based on the tech writers' knowledge and varying degrees of experience, so they're not gospel.

If you cut a pond with sloping sides, how do you do it? ....

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candoarms
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2007-10-25          147347

To all,

There are many factors to consider here. I don't mean to mislead anyone, and I sure as heck don't want to be responsible for someone getting hurt due to my advice on this subject.

We're talking about a subject that is often debated, and rightly so. This is not to be taken lightly. A lot of planning and preparation should be involved. I take my hat off to those who explore the problem before getting on the tractor and tackling it.

In this case, the brush mower is mounted on the rear of the tractor. A pond is located at the bottom of the hill. driving downhill, nose-first, with the mower behind, is not going to get the job done. The mower has to be able to get to the weeds, or there's no sense in even driving down the hill to begin with. So, now we have a few limitations to consider.

Backing down this hill is the ONLY way to get the job done. Now....whether or not this is a good idea is a subject worthy of considerable debate, and I welcome feedback from all sides.

This is a dangerous undertaking. For the inexperienced first-timer, there are many factors to consider.

I suggested that the mower not be used except on the way back up the hill, for several reasons......

1. While backing down the hill, the driver's attention must remain focused on one thing......getting down the hill safely. If the mower is in operation, the operator's attention to the most important task is divided between two tasks. Not a good idea.

2. Should the mower strike something, the inexperienced operator might instinctively depress the clutch. What may have been a uneventful downhill trip to that point in time, suddenly turns into very dangerous, and possibly deadly, free-fall.

That said, the proper way to handle this situation is to disengage the PTO. DO NOT DEPRESS THE CLUTCH! This takes practice, experience, and attention to detail. Reaching for the clutch is a bad habit, and it must be overcome before tackling hillsides.

3. The tractor's front tires are generally quite a bit smaller than the rear tires. When going downhill nose-first, the smallest washout will greatly affect the front tires and the handling. Again, it takes a lot of experience and self-control to prevent a serious accident from taking place.

A front tire will drop into a washout quite a bit further than a rear wheel would. Going downhill, by backing down, will allow the rear tire to hit the washout first. This will also alert the operator to the fact that his front tire is about to hit the same washout. It's always better to have some warning before these things happen.

Nobody is wrong. We all have certain points to make. Taking part in this discussion is the most important thing, and the feedback received by everyone here is very much appreciated.

Many thanks.

Joel ....

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Murf
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2007-10-25          147349

A tractor is NOT the only way to cut grass, where it is impractical, or DANGEROUS, a string trimmer, a walk-behind or riding mower designed for slope work is a better choice.

If Kubota's tech writers, and lawyers, engineers, and other 'experts' who would have vetted ANYTHING posted publicly in the corporate name, are wrong, then they are in good company because the writers and publishers of EVERY other safety paper I've read are of the same opinion, you only negotiate a hill in a downslope facing direction.

As for striking an obstacle, or dropping a tire in a hole, that raises the a point I omitted, you must ALWAYS walk a slope before you put a machine on it.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-10-25          147355

I happen to be one of those tech writers with 10-years exp. My specialty was automotive. Writers, et al know that not every situation can be covered or addressed. And like it or not, some of the things we were required to have in the manuals were simply not always advisable or doable from a practical or practicable standpoint. And Murf you said your self that Kubota says "it's best to". That leaves a gaping loop hole in the safety net. By that I mean when someone advising you says "it's best" that implies and suggests there are other ways to do something, but we're not going to tell you because you may try it.

That said, every operator, and every machine and even a combinaion of same has its own threshold for safety or even operability. Just like anything else.

Just like the saying "guns don't don't kill people--people do"

All I know is the technique I illustrated works well and I will continue to do it that way. Regardless. ....

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kthompson
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2007-10-25          147359

Brokenarrow, ok how about goats? They can cut it down hill, up hill and sideways and if they do slide down the hill and get hurt, then not you.

We have no real hills here but we often have people hurt or killed from roll overs at ditches or ponds. All of those have been sideways rolls. kt
....

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mobilus
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2007-10-25          147360

Of course, he'd have to know which way the hill went so that he could buy goats with the longer legs on the downhill side. hehe ....

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earthwrks
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2007-10-25          147361

Kenny you say you don't have real hills. Yer sure? Me thinks their last names are all Billy ;)

And those sideways roll overs... hmmmm judging from the time I spent sout' of you me thinks there was alkyholic beverages involved, no? (you didn't mention if they were on tractors either, so that would make sense.) :) ....

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kthompson
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2007-10-25          147362

Mobilus, don't they have them now with adjustable legs? Most anything comes with adjustable legs now days.

EW, sadly the first person I know killed by a roll over probably was drinking alcohol. Never saw him when he was not or just had one or going to get one. Still he was dead. Have no idea about BILLY hills. kt ....

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earthwrks
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2007-10-25          147364

Kenny that's last name of Billy, first name of Hill--git it now? tehehehe ....

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crunch
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2007-10-25          147370

i agree with Murf. Some things are not worth the risk. If you can't back up the hill get a string trimmer. My neighbor got shovelled up after his tractor flipped and burned on him while he was spraying dandelions. He had been farming for about 20 years up until that point. ....

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mobilus
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2007-10-25          147374

crunch, I showed your avatar to the guys in my office and now everyone is thinking about taking up golf! That's a great setup...but you have to drink it all before it gets warm, right? ....

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crunch
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2007-10-25          147377

Mobilus, we may replace the batteries with dry ice to keep the beer cold :) Really - I have a kegerator and have been purchasing kegs for about 20 years. So we have some accessories that we have built up over the years like a keg blanket to keep it cold if outdoors. I have many parties in my driveway with chicken wings and beer on tap for the neighbors. I put that keg on "Bada Bing" for kicks to see if it would fit. But the concept of a roving keg of beer is not far from the truth at my house. ....

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randywatson
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2007-10-26          147401

Wow, getting in late on this one, but here is my two cents,

In most all cases I back up the hill with hog running then go straight back down, ease over and back up again.

If the hill is not to steep and it has room at bottom and top to turn safely I will drive straight up, once at top on a flat spot turn and drive straight down,

I am hesitant to back down a hill, but will if not too steep, and there's stopping room at bottom,

I never go around or at an angle up/down

If its too steep I use my DR Field and brush mower, I can get a 40 degree slope with it, again up and down hill, and it is only three feet wide so I can take it in tight spots.

If it;s to steep for the DR I use the craftsman brush cutter with the tri prong blade

....

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mobilus
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2007-10-26          147403

crunch, it sounds like too much fun around your place. I need to get to the point where my two youngest kids are out of the house and then maybe I can get the kegerator. Have you ever had a Shiner Bock? If you're ever down this way, come by and we'll hoist a few. ....

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kskwash
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2007-10-27          147425

I think that Murf hit it on the head when he said,
"if you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't do it." If you do not have the experience, then reading these post will only be a part of it. When you are on that seat, and are facing down that slope, your mind will be wondering in all directions at that moment. And as stated, your mind must be 100% on the job at hand, and feel comfortable doing it. It is very hard not to push in your clutch when you start to slide, because you will do it out of habit. Your training, or experience must kick in, and not your reactions. I have turned down jobs because I was not willing to do something that I was not comfortable with, or that I did not have the proper equipment to do. Your first job in safety should be to return home the way you left that morning. ....

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brokenarrow
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2007-10-28          147474

Sorry I have not responded yet, I was out of town working on the property and I have no internet access. To back up a bit and to say thanks to all who responded! I learned alot today reading the posts. I never knew not to use the clutch while going down hil or up. That makes 100% sense though and I would of never thought of that.
Secondly, Rest assured folks, I never do anything with out fully researching it especially when its dangerous or costly (I am half Italian ya know)That brings me to here and why I asked the question. Not only does it help me but there are many folks (I am sure) that dont want to make themselves look "un-experianced", hopefully, answers here will them some day with this same problem.
I have never had to chance or the need to cut a hill like this. I would normally use hand tools (as mentioned) but thought I would explore the possibility of using my machine since it will be there and in use for the flat grassy,briary area's. I have a "brush saw" which is the cats butt for what I need to do except that this area has too many thorny,sharp needle-ly crapy vegitation along with small sapling (tag adlers) type tree's/brush.
Lazy one may say? Yes!
Candoarms, very observant! I have a wet pond at the very bottom, preventing me from using the backing up and driving forward down method.
I have alot to think about. Considering that I will have to be here by myself, I am considering NOT cutting this area. My wife will have surgery that week and will be recouping at the cabin so she can not be at the other property to watch over me. This has crossed my mind often this week. I am on a dead end road with the closest neighbor being a 1/4 mile away and the next being much farther than that. I did not think of that when I asked this question.
Many very good comments on this topic. EW, cutting while backing in this area would definately be a must with the trees/brush the way it is. This is where a skid steer with a brush hog on front would be the ticket. Not to mention a roll cage!

Ok folks, thanks for the info, I think its best to pass on this job. The hill I decribed is steep, NOT un cuttable but it is scary. The comments about "Not feeling safe ,Not doing it" Made alot of sense. I think I will buy a tri-blade for my Efco brush cutter and give it to that young kid I have working for me. Let him make some money while I save myself from a hospital stay or worse.
Thanks again ....

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candoarms
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2007-10-28          147476

Brokenarrow,

I believe you've made the right decision not to attempt mowing the pond banks with your tractor.....especially when you're all alone.

It might be in your plans to work to reduce the steepness of the pond banks, at some point in the future. This is something you could do with your tractor making it possible for you to mow the area at some point down the road.

If possible, please post a few pictures of your pond area here, so that our members might be able to offer a few ideas on how to attack the project.

I hope all goes well with your wife's surgery. I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

Wishing you and your family all the best.

Joel ....

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brokenarrow
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2007-10-30          147562

Thanks Joel
I will do that. Next week my wife has a surgery and I am taking her out to the cabin for 5 days to recover (away from any of her usual house work that she can never seem to NOT DO) While she is laying around eating bon-bons and watching Jenny, I will be hunting the "RUT" and also working on the other property. Before I post those pics I will take next week, I should clarify this area a bit more. I call it my "pond" because it is going to be just that. Right now it is a 1/2 acre of tag alders that holds about a foot of water most all year. It is a horse shoe shaped ridge that drops as deep as I mentioned. My future house is going at the top of this area and I am clearing the brush and small trees that I dont want arouind the whole area which is about 2 acres. The rest of the 15 acres I will leave wild. I never plan to have this area grass to mow. But, I do plan on having it cleaned out and a park like look. I have a good start on it and its starting to take shape but a good brush mowing of this area would make short work or what looks to be a very long teedious job.
I will post a few pics right after we get back near the end of this month.
Thanks again every one ....

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