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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-01-17          150353

My wife drives a Toyota Highlander and in close quarters she keeps bashing it into stuff. We've had the left rear quarter panel and bumper fixed twice, and each of the other three corners fixed once. Yeesh, she just doesn't know where the corners of it are. The last straw was when she ran into the side of the garage door opening for the second time last week. (feel free to insert women driver comments here)

Anyway... we will be getting her a smaller vehicle with better visibility. Because of where we live I'd like it to be an AWD sedan. We rented a Subaru Outback once, and she didn't like it, so I'm curious as to what else is out there. I've always liked Audi Quattro's but those things are very spendy. I understand the VW Jetta/Passat with 4Motion are basically Audi technology so we will probably look there first. Toyota doesn't seem to make an AWD CAR, only SUVs. What else is out there? Whatever we get will probably be used, what's the point of getting a new one only to crash into stuff?



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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-17          150354

I'm giving the Lincoln MKZ a serious look. It's a Ford Fusion underneath, but has a lot of more sophisticated features you don't get down at entry level. One of the few vehicles in its price range that offers heated AND cooled front seats.

//greg// ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-18          150357

KW; We had the same delema just a year ago. We had a Chevy Venture AWD that almost needed a fulltime mechanic to keep it running anymore, so we got tired of fixing it. We live at the top of a steep north facing hill so you know the rest. First off I will not buy foreign built cars,(rice burners in Iowaegan), so amoung the domestics a Chevy Trailblazer gave us a flat floor, (no door ledge to get our old aching feet over when getting in or out), four wheel drive, small enough for the Mrs. to manuver, but big enough to haul four in comfort and a bit of freight in the back, with decent four corner visibility, rear wheel drive, (I've had all the front wheel drive I can stand), heated seats and all the other BS dodads. Mileage is so-so, but the LITTLE SHORT Mrs. loves it, so I guess I like it too. As to your Mrs. mashing the corners I backed into an old Lincoln at a convenience store when the Trailblazer was a couple months old, didn't put a scratch on the Lincoln but left a nasty looking dent in our rear plastic bumper. the son inlaw crawled under it put his fist against the bump and it popped out good as new. Maybe they will offer rubber fenders for folks like myself and your wife someday. Frank. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2008-01-18          150367

Have you considered a small SUV like the Saturn Vue. It will give you the smaller outer size, more road clearance than a sedan and has a Honda engine. I believe highway mileage is around 25mpg. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-01-18          150368

I know I'm going to get some steam over this, but what else is new?

Look at and DRIVE a used Mercedes Benz ML series.

They are cheap (relatively speaking) because nobody who wants a Benz wants a USED one, HAVE to have the latest greatest model. They are extremely maneuverable, handle nicely, none of that rolly-polly wallowing down the road, and will comfortably cruise down the highway at 'European speeds' with 4 full-sized adults with ease. Not bad on gas (the 320 is a 3.2 litre 6 cyl., the 420 & 500 are V8's) and VERY dependable.

I've always had several in the fleet over the years, presently we have a 1999 ML320, a 2000 ML420 and a 2002 ML500 AMG (which is a rocketship with nice upholstery).

You can pick one up for about the same as a 2 or 3 year newer, much lower quality, Japanese or N. American vehicle.

Before you say "but it's an SUV" get in one, they turn tighter than my 'other half's' Volvo sedan does!!!

A pleasure to drive & own.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2008-01-18          150374

Ken.. This sounds like one of two things to me,

1)a DESIGN issue... where the CAFE standards dictate extreme aerodynamic styling to the point where she cannot see around the body curves. If so there just aren't many "square" cars built these days.

OR

2) A perception issue. Does she wear glasses? Does she need glasses? Is there an undiagnosed astigmatism? Is there a medication involved that sez "don't operate machinery"? Do the mini-collisions always happen at the same time of day... IE blood sugar drop?

Don't know if that helps..... Mark ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2008-01-18          150379

I have driven rental Toyota Highlanders and I have found them easy to drive and maneuver. The interiors seem a little cheesey on the rental editions I had, but overall a very nice car. I have also driven the Mercedes ML320, a nice vehicle, the one I had a small amount of additonal road feel in it than a Highlander, and I believe if you had problems with the Highlander you will have the same ones with the Mercedes ;)

Maybe one of those Little Cars would fit the bill :)

When I first met my wife she would always take her turns to tight, onetime creasing the whole side of her sisters van. I warned her as she was doing it, and she even denied doing it after I showed her the crease down the whole side of the car. For years I would tell her to swing wide, I guess after years of the that she finally got it and had no problem driving a Tundra Access cab truck for couple of years.




....


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Justus
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 179 Justus, Pa.
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2008-01-18          150382

KW, Although I don't own one (The next door neighbor has owned a few) Volvo offers All Wheel Drive on it's cars, is stylish and known for safety. Check out the link.
Good luck, Steve. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-18          150384

Dennis; Is that thing for real or did somebody cut about three feet out of the middel? I happened to notice the insurance bill for our 07 Trailblazer that came the other day is the same as my 07 Silverado 415.00 each for 12 months full coverage. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-01-18          150386

Murf, I don't think those Mercedes are AWD, are they?

Mark, my wife has always been a total klutz. Eyes are good, she wears glasses but her eye-hand coordination and depth perception have always been poor. Women aren't generally as good with spacial imaging as men but she is about as bad as one can get.

The Trailblazer and Saturn VUE both look to be about the same size as a Highlander. We really want something about 1/3 smaller than that with excellent visibility.

A sedan with a big, airy greenhouse she can see out of would be best. Something not high off the ground - she had back surgery and it's more difficult for her to get in and out of taller vehicles.

Justus, I forgot about Volvo, thanks, we'll check them out. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-18          150387

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardwood | view 150384
Dennis; Is that thing for real or did somebody cut about three feet out of the middle?


Not sure about that, they do look real but I cannot imagine who would want to spend the money to build such weird toys ;)

I don't recommend roaming around that domain, it looks kinda sleazy! ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-18          150388

Acura has an RL AWD ($46 k ouch!) but it is way more expensive than I imagined, 8K more than the already out of my league Volvo which is $38 k.

I f my wife was banging up the car I would get her a econobox like a Honda Civic, the new Civics look great have best in class visibility but just FWD.

....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-18          150389

Ken, the ML series are AWD only, I don't think they make a 2WD version, and like my Land Rovers, have no 2WD on the transfer case even, only a choice of high or low range, full-time AWD only.

One of the things I really like about them is how car-like they are, but you do sit a bit higher, with god visibility.

Best of luck. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2008-01-18          150390

Ken:
The Vue is considerably smaller than the Chevy Trailblazer. I also know your distaste for Ford products. The Ford 500 came in AWD and sales were terrible and it was one of the nicest cars ever built by Ford. You may be able to pickup a used one cheap. Not all were AWD. They had a very spacious interior and were just the right height for easy entry. They rebadged it as the New Taurus. I also like the Ford Escape/Mercuy Mariner as small SUV's. They are smaller about the same size as the Saturn Vue. They do ride nice and are not hard to get in and out. I also like the visibility of the Escape. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-18          150391

Quote:
Originally Posted by yooperpete | view 150390
.....I also know your distaste for Ford products..


Ford bought Volvo Truck some years ago, I thought they bought the car line more recently, does anyone know? ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2008-01-18          150392

Dennis:
Ford purchased Volvo and is using their platform for the new Ford models like the Fusion and their new lineup. This gives them an edge for added quietness and crash tests at much less cost.

Ken:
You may also want to look at the new '09 Caddy CTS. If you look at fox.com and happen to catch their alternating ad from Car & Driver, where it won the car of the year award. Have heard they've made awesome changes. As an option it comes in AWD. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-01-18          150410

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 150389
but you do sit a bit higher, with god visibility.Best of luck.


Boy Murf, that is some visibility there. And you can get that by just the auto you drive?
(I normally am the one who gets the mispelled award.) I could not pass on it. :) kt

....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-18          150417

Ken,

I think Toyota made the Matriix in AWD last year. Its a four door hatchback nice and small, low cost high mileage too!

Its a little homely in my opinion, so I never considered it, might be perfect for your wife though, the rear window is small.
....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-18          150424

Quote:
Originally Posted by yooperpete | view 150392
You may also want to look at the new '09 Caddy CTS.
That's the other one on my own short list for an AWD mid-sized sedan. It's got direct injection over the Lincoln. But I'm still debating whether that sufficient carrot to pass up the better-looking MKZ .

//greg// ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-01-18          150425

Dennis, I looked at all the Toyota car models and as far as I can tell none of them have AWD. The closest is the RAV4 but it's SUVish. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2008-01-19          150443

The last year the Matrix had AWD was 2006, I guess most people in the AWD market want something the size of a Rav4 or a Honda CRV.

But if you are looking for used you may be in luck. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-01-19          150446

Have another look at Subaru, because almost their entire line is 4WD, and it includes sedans like the Legacy. They're relatively inexpensive, well made, and supported by a large dealer network.

You could order one with two sets of tires on rims: summer and winter. Modern summer rubber has no cold traction; winter rubber wears out in the summer, and all-seasons are just a compromise.

At an auto-supply store look for corner markers or whatever they're called: about foot-long rods that clamp vertically on a corner and serve as a placement cue.

In a few other makes there are several sophisticated new drive systems that send power increasingly to whatever wheel slips, but they are more costly. Some have a Low range on the auto trans, but mine has this and I never need it.

....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-01-19          150447

Currently at the top of our list is a Volvo S40 AWD, Subaru Impreza, VW Passat 4Motion, Lexus IS250 or Audi A4 Quattro. The Impreza could be bought new and the others would need to be used. The plan is to sell the almost paid-for Highlander and buy the next one with the sale proceeds and no loan.

The Impreza looks good but it seems underpowered in standard form (and the WRX model is ridiculously high priced for what it is).

German cars always seem fun to drive but the Volvo is looking real.

GM and Ford have lost me as a customer for life (a ding against the Volvo since they're owned by Ford). ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2008-01-19          150453

In terms of asking you a decade from now about how well the car served you, the likely order would be the Lexus, the Subaru, and then the other three way down the list. ....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-19          150458

Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 150453
In terms of asking you a decade from now about how well the car served you, the likely order would be the Lexus, the Subaru, and then the other three way down the list.


You're probably right there. My guess is that in terms of driving enjoyment it would be the Audi, VW, Lexus, Volvo and then Subaru. In terms of driving enjoyment the two VWs I've owned have been far more enjoyable than the Fords (2), GMs (3), and Toyotas (3). ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2008-01-25          150744


my wife's last two cars have been Subaru legacys the first was a 2004 and a 07 now. They aren't fancy, as she doesn't like leather seats but have good looks. the 04 was a good car with no troubles for 35,000 miles but a dog! The 07 has about 15 more horse and five more miles per gallon on the fuel and enough power over the old one to make it a nice car to drive although still not over powered. ....

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BobMeyers
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15 Southwest Pennsylvania
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2008-01-26          150772

A lot of fancy cars have been mentioned. I'll suggest you look at a Honda Element AWD. I have had many vehicles in my 60+ years and the ugly little element is a winner.
My wife drives a Honda CRV and loves it. I still have my 76 Dodge pickup...Good Luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2008-01-26          150774

I didn't know the Element was AWD. Thanks for the pointer, but I showed it to my wife and she is wanting something a little sportier. The mileage on those Elements seems less than one might expect for such a small vehicle. What kind of mileage are you getting?

Right now we're leaning toward the Subaru Impreza 5-door (it's a wagon but doesn't look like one). Haven't driven it yet and it looks like rear visibility may not be the best. The 4-door will probably have better visibility if that's a problem. The Highlander is supposed to get out of the body shop this week and then we'll give it a good wash and put it up for sale. ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2008-01-26          150775

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwschumm | view 150774
.... The Highlander is supposed to get out of the body shop this week and then we'll give it a good wash and put it up for sale.


I have driven the Highlander and it is a very nice vehicle, I am very skeptical as to whether a change of vehicles will make much if any difference in your spouses driving record :) Odds are in your favor that nothing will happen even you keep the car now ;)

At one time my wife had 3 deer accidents in less than 18 months, wheras I have driven probably 10 times the miles she has and have never hit a deer. You win some you lose some.

You might be even more unhappy having sold the Highlander only to end up with the same result, if you really have not solved the root cause.

Ah but its only a car they come and go quite easy ;)



....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-26          150776

You may be right, Dennis. She's back to driving the old 94 Taurus SHO now and she likes driving it much better than the Highlander. She drove the Taurus daily for 12 years without an accident and if it wasn't so long in the tooth she'd be happy to keep it as her primary transportation. ....

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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
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2008-01-29          150908

I don't know your taste in cars but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread: the Dodge Charger has an AWD option. I have a RWD R/T (Hemi) and like it a lot. The MDS system on the Hemi allows me to get 22-23 mpg on my daily drive. And it has plenty of power.

It was a natural for me because I'm a Dodge guy.

Good luck,
Bill ....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-29          150913

Bill, I didn't know the Charger had an AWD option, thanks. The Edmunds search didn't turn that up as an option.

How is the visibility out of one of those? ....

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BillMullens
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2008-01-29          150915

The only visibility issue I notice is upward...I've seen reviews that compare it to looking out of a slit. Sometimes you have to crane your neck to see stoplights. Not an issue in my everyday driving.

It is bigger than my wife's Grand Prix, but since I moved out of a Dodge Ram to this car I don't have any problems with it being too big.

This car shares some DNA with Mercedes, courtesy of the Daimler/Chrysler merger. To get a comparable car in room/power you'd have to spend a few thousand more. A nice Hemi stickers in the mid-30k range; when I got mine they could be bought for high 20's to low 30's, depending on options.

They are automatic only, but have the Autostick, which optionally lets you shift it yourself within certain limits (for instance it will shift for you when you approach redline; it will downshift for you when coming to a stop). Similar to Audi's Tiptronic, I suppose.

Pics in my profile. ....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-29          150932

Bill, that looks like it would be a really nice choice. Your car looks great. I'll be sure to take my wife by to check it out. ....

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BillMullens
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2008-01-30          150941

I'd be interested what you find out if you get as far as pricing one. Not to be nosy. When I bought mine, Dodge was using a program that has since been discontinued. It set a quota for the dealership; if they met the quota, salesman were paid a bonus on each car they sold. The bonus was pretty good; so much so that they would sell the cars at invoice price. So the salemen would make little or nothing on the actual sale (many sales people are paid by percentage of gross profit); but they would make out well if they sold a lot of cars and the dealership made quota.

Anyway at the time I bought my car for invoice minus the $3000 rebate.

I see on the Dodge website that the SXT model (250 hp V6) AWD is considerably less expensive than the Hemi RT.

Good luck,
Bill

....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-03-05          151929

So after my comment earlier about the Benz ML series, I called my friend, and Kubota dealer, who also happens to be a car dealer (he gets a lot of my money) and he was commenting on a unit in the upcoming dealer auction (this was last week).

I figured by now he owed me a coffee, maybe lunch. So, he &I spent a lovely afternoon (and some money) at the auction, and I came away with yet another ML. A 2002 ML 500 with about 80k miles on it. I figure I paid about 15% of what it went for new.

So I have a new runabout that is a little easier to park than the dually, and also fits in the garage, as opposed to hiking out to the shop to put the dually away every time I want to go somewhere.

Best of luck. ....

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