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What is the law what is safe

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DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2006-02-16          124657


I have been working my butt off the last couple weeks moving crap up and down the state to my little price of paradise in NorCal....I need to rent a small backhoe (ie kubota) to do some trneching and excavate for my foundations....I have no vehicle with a trailer hitch....I have a 85 F350 Stakebed with a lift gate..it's the kind that fold underneath the rear deck of the stakebed...There is a stop plate where the gate folds in half, that holds the gate flat when unfolded......It is very heavy duty (3/8" steel), and everything is is attached to is very heavy duty as this is the attachment point for the lift cylinder.....It would be a perfect place to attach a hitch to IMO as it stays perpendicular to the ground as the gate is raised/lowered...I could build a bracket out of 1/4" steel for the ball and bolt the bracket to the left gate plate with 1/2" or 5/8" bolts....then I could lower the gate to the exact height I want and tow away....

but is this legal/safe attaching a hitch to a lift gate? If not, would installing (via bolts) another bracket from the hitch to the 1/4" stakebed deck to lock the gate in place make it legal? I had worked out another method, but this method would be much cheaper and easier to instal/uninstall....

Anyone ever done anything like this?




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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 579 g
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2006-02-16          124669


In Ga. there wont be any problem as long as the trailor stays attached to the truck. You are laible for anything that happens associated with the trailor. I would load test the fix you are perposing to a least 200% of the WLL (working load Limit)Ex- 5000lb WLL 10,000 test this would cominstate for any shock load you may experence on the road such as curbs, bumps etc. A trailor comming loose from a jury rig would be a hell of a law suit. I you had a load test you may beat the negligent part of the suit. ....


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DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2006-02-16          124671


How do I have it load tested? I can;t imagine the thing coming loose...This hitch would be 5 times as heavy duty as the hitches I see hooked up to most pickups/cars.....That lift gate is made of some pretty heavy duty steel.....The worst thing that I could see happening would be the gate lowering down somehow...which I'd think wouldn't cause detachment, but would cause the tounge/hitch to drag on the ground...I'd probably know about that pretty quick..LOL ....


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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 579 g
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2006-02-16          124675


That is the trick with trailors, as long as they stay attached you are good to go. Several ways to test, wire rope the hitch off to a tree, or other expendable item and jack up on the hitch use a dyno for a read out. Any kind of pull test (with tractor) that would give you a warm fuzzy feeling about pulling the trailor. I have pulled trailors for 1000s of miles always factory installed sleeve hitches, chains, locks and what ever else I could attach to help in case of loss. The U-Hauls have strap on hitches. What you have in mind seems to be above average for any tow rig. It just when you are tooling down the road at 70+ that peice of mind is worth alot. ....


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DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2006-02-16          124676


My big concern is that I show up at the rental yard to rent the hoe, and they say, "you can't tow our hoe with that!"....or would they even blink? ....


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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 579 g
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2006-02-16          124678


OK I see now that is the $64 question. Maybe a phone call to see if there is any restrictions? I am with you I dont think they would even look. I am sure they have Insurance. That might be another good question. I have rented equipment an loaded on my trailor but they never questioned the hitch. I guess after they saw all the crap I had it attached with it did not concern them. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-02-17          124701


I suspect you'll have more problems than you know what to do with if, God forbid, you have an accident or run into a CHiPy in need of some Preparation H.

It's my understanding that the highway traffic / safety laws are pretty much uniform across NA. Ours here specifically states something to the effect of a hitch must be rigidly, permanently and securely attached to the frame of the towing vehicle.

It was worded such for two reasons, to stop those chain on U-haul type temporary hitches, and to stop tow trucks from making up a sandwich affair that clamped onto the stinger to pull a trailer from.

BTW, for what it's worth, if you are renting for 1+ days the rental yards usually move the hoe for you free. Up here they carry mini excavators in the back of the truck, not on a trailer.

Best of luck. ....


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-02-17          124707


Save yourself some time and trouble. If Northern CA is anything like Northern NV the rental yards are governed by their insurance regulations.

Here in NV you cannot rent any trailer with two axles unless there are 8 bolts on the rear rims of your towing vehicle. You can show them the owners manual with the manufacturers towing stats, but it is a huge waste of time.

I would bet that your ad hoc trailer rig would not pass their smell test. ....


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DeTwang
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 268 Shingletown, Ca. (Near Redding)
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2006-02-17          124737


My stakebed is a 1 tom dually. with 8 botl rims....It's just the attachment point....I'm wanting to attach it to the lift gate which is definitely attached to the frame (does a 4' diameter pipe with 1/4" walls solidly welded to the frame qualify as rigid?)...the entire framework of the lift gate is minimum 3/8" steel..(some of it 1/2"), and the stakebed truck is a 8' wide x 12' long stakebed with a 460 engine and a 10,000 lb rated GVW....

No doubt this is enough truck to tow a small backhoe on a trailer...the rental yard does not deliver, they have the thing on a trailer...my only question is the 'legal requirements' of a trailer hitch...I have no doubt that this setup would be five times a strong as anything youd find in a U-Haul setup bolted to the frame of a 3/4 tom pickup, but will it pass the insurance/lawsuit wary renta yard smell test? If not, what do I do, having a lift gate in the way of traditional tow hitch attachements? ....


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2006-02-17          124739


If all you need is the thing pulled to your place, why not hire some one to do this (if your going to have a problem).
I first would take your rig to the rental yard and show them what you have. If they give you the AX, then I would ask them if anyone there wanted to make a few extra bucks after work and haul it to your place. If still there is no answer you want to hear, maybe asking around town would do the trick. I got one last (and real low life) solution. Look in the paper for a rig set up to haul. Tell em you want to see if it would pull a trailer with this on it. NAAAAAHHHH Forget it, that is too low life to do.
(I say that cause I had sold a boat one weekend (when I was young and dumb) After the weekend the check came back "stopped" and the boat was in my driveway. Turns out they only wanted to use it for the weekend.
Try asking the rental if anyone they know would want to haul it for you for a couple of few bucks a mile. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2006-02-18          124748


DeTwang If you are welding the hitch directly to the frame leave the lift gate out of the question.

If you are welding the hitch to the lift gate frame that is attached to the frame then its anybodies guess.

If you get pulled into a state DOT inspection you need to be able to show them all of the engineered rating of each component where the hitch is attached and the certifications of the welds.

If you do not give a rats butt about the DOT weld the hitch on buy, rent or borrow a trailer and go for it. Just keep in mind:

"IT DOES NOT MATTER IN AN ACCIDENT (especially if someone gets seriously hurt) NO MATTER WHOS AT FAULT IF YOU HAVE A TRUCK OR ARE TOWING SOMETHING. YOU ARE GOING TO GET A VERY COMPRENSIVE INSPECTION BY SOME ONE WHO WANTS TO SEE RATING NUMBERS. ALSO YOU BETTER HAVE THE WEIGHTS CORRECT AND REGISTRATIONS TO SUPPORT.

Are ya gonna have a accident? No probably not! BUT how much risk are you willing to accept? Especially from some moron who rear ends or "T" bones you running a stop sign with no seat belt and gets a broken neck. Here you are with this, home made non rated, rig asking for a major lawsuit. As I said it does not matter who is at fault here. Its not fair but you are gonna take the heat.

I am invloved with lots of trucks and have been there and done that! All that said I still do lots of stuff that is nowhere near the letter of the law. So I say go for it!
....


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jimbrown
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 56 Cochise cnty Az
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2006-02-18          124755


You might want to check the trailer. My experience that the rental trailers for tractors ect have pintal hooks rather than balls. They usually just loan you a receiver with a pintal on it. so you would need a way to awap the recivers. ....


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bnrhuffman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 107 Falling Waters WV
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2006-02-21          124875


If your truck isnt DOT registered, I would say that legally speaking, you would be fine because the DOT doesnt generally concern themselves with non DOT registered vehicles (unless something is obviously amiss). If your truck is registered with the DOT, then its a crap shoot. Im sure that they could interprep your liftgate as not being firmly fixed to the frame because it is either hydraulically or electrically movable. I know we had a Mack semi tractor that had a hydraulic fifth wheel lift. To legally take it on the highway, it had to have a hydaulic lockout switch that would lock it in the lowered position so it couldnt be raised.
As far as what would happen in an accident. For you to be found liable, I would think that it would have to be proven that you or your tow setup caused or somehow made the accident worse. Beware though that YOU will probably have to pay for your defense because your insurance co will probably wash their hands of you when they find out what youve done.
Is your set up safe? I cant say.
Will the rental yard let you tow their trailer? Maybe, maybe not, they're a fickle bunch. They would certainly have cause and right not to. I probably wouldnt rental a trailer and equipment to you with that setup.
I hope you are planning on wiring up some trailer brakes.
Be careful turning and backing. If Im imagining correctly what your plan is, it wont take a very tight turn to mash the corner of your liftgate its the trailer.
....


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