JUMP-STARTING: Yanmar Tractors  -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum and Review JUMP-STARTING: Yanmar Tractors -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum

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 10-08-2008, 12:44 Post: 157113
auerbach



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 JUMP-STARTING

I earlier posted the question of whether jump-starting hurts the voltage regulator. Many helpful comments, but non definitive. Maybe I can narrow the issue to this:

Could jumping the wrong terminals be harmful whereas using the right ones would be safe?

On my machine, facing the end of the solenoid on top of the starter, you see two large copper bolts with nuts holding connectors. The manual calls the inside one the Battery Terminal, the outside one the Motor Terminal. Since those two are conspicuous, and look like what I see farmers shorting with their screwdriver blade, those are what I would jump. There's a third one, the Switch Terminal, which is smaller, different, and above them.

"When all else fails, read the manual." Turns out the Service Manual does have jumping instructions: connect the battery positive to the Switch Terminal. Oh! I made up a cable to do this, and that works too.

So do you think that jumping the WRONG terminals is damaging whereas the right ones are OK?






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 10-08-2008, 13:14 Post: 157116
earthwrks

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 JUMP-STARTING

I read a few words then stopped---YES! It is bad--not for the regulator of the tractor--but the BATTERY! By reversing the polarity you will blow apart--read: nasty, acid-laden EXPLOSION!! In fact, some of the even low priced jumper cables and chargers are reverse-polarity protected to keep this from happening.

I have witnessed 2 batteries blow up. One was in a company car I was driving which was a result of the regulator was allowing 15 volts and overcharged it. This was a full-size Pontiac. At 35 MPH it felt and sounded like a gun shot that hit the car--it dented the hood! The second time was just last weekend when I was burning some construction debris that had a car battery at the bottom of the heap mistakenly placed there. It sounded like a cannon went off.

(IMHO a lot depends on the existing charge of the jumped battery, whether or not either vehicle is running and charging, the available amps flowing through the jumper cable connections, "wellness" or "fitness" or "health" of the battery cells, acid level, battery temperature, etc.---this applies to the "jumpee" battery too below.)

That was the jumped vehicle--the jumpee.

The donor jumping vehicle--the jumper, could also risk damage such as the its battery blowing, the regulator blowing and possibly damaging the electronics depending on how sophisticated or not the system is.






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 10-09-2008, 06:51 Post: 157132
auerbach



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 JUMP-STARTING

Appreciate your trying to help, but it's probably better to read the entire question first.






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 10-09-2008, 15:33 Post: 157141
kthompson



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Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 157132
Appreciate your trying to help, but it's probably better to read the entire question first.



So is EW a jumper, jumpee or just jumped? Smile kt






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 10-09-2008, 15:47 Post: 157143
kthompson



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 JUMP-STARTING

OK, I read your post carefully Auerbach and not being smart at all now. I thought that switch terminal or post was the power coming from the key switch to engage the solenoid to complete the path. If that is correct, then putting power to that would not supply any power to the starter other than what the batter connected to the battery side was able to. It would seem that would only by pass the key switch and that circuit.

If you use a screw driver to lay across the two large terminals that is by passing the soleniod also again if my understanding is correct.

If by chance you were to connected to the "motor" terminal the batter should turn at once and by safety switchs and can cause a tractor to start in gear or with PTO engage.

It has been a while thankfully since I have had any reason to play with a solenoid so may be off a little. kt






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 10-09-2008, 21:07 Post: 157150
auerbach



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 JUMP-STARTING

Let me back up a bit. (And apologize for the double posting.)

The key won't start it and I can't troubleshoot the starting circuit just now. Because I need the tractor, I have to start it by jumping. (Yes, in neutral, brake on.)

If I connect the Motor and Battery terminals, it starts fine. If I connect the battery positive to the Switch terminal (as the manual says), it starts fine.

My question is: when my regulator failed some years ago when I had the same problem and was jumping the Motor/Battery terminals, might that have caused the regulator failure?






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 10-09-2008, 22:58 Post: 157155
kwschumm



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 JUMP-STARTING

I will say this - if it's a solid state regulator and arcing occurs when jumping the solenoid terminals all bets are off.






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 10-10-2008, 07:56 Post: 157159
kthompson



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I have jumped a few systems over the years. Even 12 starting a 6 volt (fun) and in all of those not aware of a voltage regulator failure, even with arching. Even with no failure that I am aware of in the last 30 years of a voltage regulator no doubt in right situtation it could. Then it could have just be timing and had nothing to do with it. kt






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 10-10-2008, 10:37 Post: 157163
Murf

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 JUMP-STARTING

Quote:
Originally Posted by auerbach | view 157113
Appreciate your trying to help, but it's probably better to read the entire question first.

[QUOTE=auerbach;157113] The manual calls the inside one the Battery Terminal, the outside one the Motor Terminal.
There's a third one, the Switch Terminal, which is smaller, different, and above them."When all else fails, read the manual." Turns out the Service Manual does have jumping instructions: connect the battery positive to the Switch Terminal. [/QUOTE]

Are you sure you're reading that right?

The solenoid is nothing more than a remote control switch. When a LOW current 12 volt source is applied to that smaller terminal it closes the 'switch' between the 'battery' & 'motor' terminals.

Putting jumpers to that smaller terminal doesn't make sense. I does the same as taking a little piece of speaker wire and connecting the 'battery' and 'switch' terminals would.

If your method works then all it needs is the switch by-passed. If that's the case, then at least you know where the problem is.

And to answer your question, putting a booster cable between either the positive battery terminal itself or the 'battery' terminal of the solenoid and the 'motor' terminal will not hurt anything.

BTW, there is a good reason they tell you not to short across the two terminals, although I must admit, id it myself now & then, but it's only because doing so causes the arcing to deform the threads. Ultimately this would cause the solenoid terminals to strip or cross thread, meaning it must then be replaced.

If however, you put the conductor on the 'switch' terminal, and then touch the 'battery' terminal the load is so small it shouldn't happen.

Best of luck.






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 10-10-2008, 12:06 Post: 157164
auerbach



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 JUMP-STARTING

Murf, my esteemed colleague, I carefully quote (including the odd capitalization) from Yanmar's Service Manual for my model:

"When Key Switch is Turned to Start Position, Nothing Happens. Solenoid Does Not Click.

1. Connect a jumper wire to positive terminal of battery. Briefly touch jumper wire to switch terminal (S, Fig. 2) of solenoid. If starter operates, problem is in wiring or switches."
___

Yes, jumping the battery and motor terminals does create a spark, which could cause several problems. (I wondered why the instructions were not to connect one end to the switch terminal and to touch the other end to the battery positive. That way, you don't have to thread a live wire from the battery to the solenoid without touching anything on the way. Might there be a spark at the battery?)






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Yanmar Tractors Forum

Thread 157113 Filter by Poster:
auerbach 4 | earthwrks 1 | kthompson 3 | kwschumm 1 | Murf 2 |




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