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wigglybridge
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2004-02-14          76854

"There is no joy in Mudville..." I wasn't expecting my first time with the chains to be easy, but I just spent an hour and a half discovering:

(1) they seem way too big -- after I tighten them as far as they can physically go without skipping cross-bars, I've got 6 extra links hanging. Does this seem right? I probably couldn't get them any tighter anyway, but I might be able to pull one more link if the next cross bar weren't there. If it is right, what do I do with this slack?
(2) more seriously, I don't see how they're ever going to clear my draft links. I must admit that I've had trouble with these draft links clearing the tires since I got the machine, and spent over 2 hours adjusting the sway bars to maximize clearance. But even after that, the 3pt blower can still pull to either side to about 1" from the tires on turns on a slope. The chains are smacking one side or the other about 25% of the time, and it falls right on a link, looks like if I drive at all it will cause big damage.

Anybody got any hints? Right now, they're worse than useless.


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wigglybridge
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2004-02-14          76858

Clarification: when I said the chains hit "right on a link" I meant that they strike the draft link where the pin attaching the draft link to the link body comes through.

Here's a probably stupid question: is it possible to attach the draft links to the attachment pins from the INSIDE? That would pick me up 2" on each side and give me plenty of clearance. Not that I have wrenches big enough to reverse the pins on these attachments! ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-14          76870

WigglyB,
You will have to shorten the chains, the cross chains are hopefully the correct size for the tire, but there could be quite a bit of extra length in the side chains, as they will fit a range of tire diameters.
Now for the clearance, I don't have a Deere, but it seems your rear tread may be set to the minimum. Hopefully your Owner's Manual will give you the information to increase the rear tread dimension. If, not I'm sure one of the other members will share their experiences. On my Kubota, I increased the rear tread 11" by reversing the rims.
Hang in there,
bliz ....

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DRankin
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2004-02-14          76871

I have turned pins inward several times and it works fine as long as you make sure the holes for the lynch pins are accessible. ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-14          76876

Bliz, how do I "shorten the chains"? This is big metal. On the plus side, I'm impressed that I pick up another 100 lbs. of wheel weights!

On the link pins, I can also pick up about 1/2" on each side by moving the nuts, so I'll try that first, it will be much easier, although I'll still need to hop down to the hardware tomorrow to big up a wrench big enough to grab those suckers! ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-14          76881

WB,
CRS strikes again, I didn't answer some of your questions.

If your tires are not worn, you could cut off 4 or 5 of the extra links, or leave them on but securely wire them to the side chain. Probably should wire even one extra link if you have very limited clearance. You can get rubber tire chain tensioners anywhere that sells chains, Tirechains has both rubber and metal spring types. They keep things snug even if the chains are a little big. Drive for a while and check the tension again. If they are very loose you could move the cross chains back a link or two, but opening the side link is difficult.

If you're having clearance problems with attachments as well as chains, I assume you could reverse the wheels/rims or both to solve this. Hope a 4110 owner will respond if this is possible or not. You might be able to get the nuts off the hitch pins with pipe wrenches and a piece of pipe to slide over the handle, but proper wrenches (and a 5 pound hammer) make things easier.

Look at the 'Tire clearance with chains' thread for incentive to 'get them damn chains on'.
Good Luck.
bliz

....

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blizzard
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2004-02-14          76886

I cut the extra links off with a hacksaw. Cut through one side (away from the weld) and spread with a pry bar, or cut both sides. You could also use a bolt-cutter, file, grinder, or a big chisel and hammer. Much easier and safer to cut the links with the chains in a vise or on the floor, rather than on the tire, though bolt-cutters would be easy to use with the chains mounted.
Work & Play Safely,
bliz ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-14          76887

WB,
Be prepared for 'sticker shock' for wrenches 1-1/4" and larger (;>
bliz ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-14          76888

Hey Bliz, thanks for keeping me going -- I'm feeling like a high-maintenance item lately!

The wheels are reversible, but I'd only pick up 1/3 inch on the centerline according to the manual; don't know whether that translates to anything more on the inside or not.

I'm gonna try moving the hitch pins in the remaining 1/2 inch on each side instead, and hope that gets me just enough. If not, I'll take off the blower and flip the pins, unless somebody pipes up that it's a bad idea.

I'll take your suggestion and wire the excess chain up for now -- who knows, once I figure out the real situation here I might even have enough to make up a couple of cross bars!

I gotta say, they really are more chain than I was expecting, and I mean that in a positive way. Man, these things are industrial strength. ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-15          76897

WigglyB,
I'm having a hard time visualising your 7/8" pin setup.

1) There is a single projection near each side of the implement, about 1/2" thick. Each pin is attached to this with 2 nuts, one heavy and one thinner 'jam' nut, and a lock washer.
1a) Same as (1) except the pin has a shoulder and nut(s) and washer.

2) The tapered end of the pin points towards the tire, which is where you are getting interference.

If the above is correct, I see no reason you can't reverse the pins so the lower lift arms are closer together. you can also trim the threaded end flush. As DRankin mentioned, make sure you can get the clevis pins in the holes easily. Attaching the blower may be a little more tedious, but I assume you put it on once for the winter.
While your're at the hardware store, iron 'tie wire' used for fastening rebar is my favorite for the extra links and about 1000 other things.
Hope this helps,
bliz ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-15          76903

Bliz, you've actually got it visualized pretty close. But the attachment pins themselves are not hitting -- the pin tieing the link lift body to the draft links is what's closest to the chain. So the chain either hits the draft link or clips the stubby end of the link lift body pin. Ugly either way, it's just the worst spot it could hit.

But if I:
(1) move the nuts on the attachment pins a little, I'll pick up an extra 1/2" on each one. Might be enough to clear.
(2) switch the attachment pins around so the tapered (clip) end faces in, I'll get about 2" each side. Certainly enough.

Thanks for the tip on the tie wire -- I'm going to see if my neighborhood tool junkie has a wrench I can borrow, since I can't see ever needing this item again other than for the blower. ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-15          76904

What I *can't* figure out from all this is why the draft links are so close to the tires in the first place. It almost seems like the whole thing is designed wrong, or possibly put together wrong.

When it warms up a bit (currently 4F) I 'm going to spend some time comparing it to the (inadequate) picture of the hitch in the 4110 manual and see if anything looks out of place. I've already noticed several minor things that were installed wrong on this tractor, such as the drawbar pin in upside down.

At any rate, I'm a little annoyed at the dealer sending both the rear blade and the blower out such that they would not work correctly on the hitch as it stands. ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-15          76908

It warmed up to 10F, and I studied the links. The sway bars are put on wrong, apparently, at least they differ from the manual pictures. Where the sway bars attach to the tractor, there's a spacer that should be in a different place, makes it look like the way mine is set up is all wrong, probably the root of the problems. ....

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DRankin
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2004-02-15          76909

The lower arms attach with a long 3/4 inch pin.

The pin spans about 9 inches or so between a flange on the planetary gear housing and a bolstered area on the frame surrounding the PTO shaft.

There are three pieces on the shaft. Starting from the center and working outward toward the axle, first in line should be your lift arm, followed by a tube that has your sway chain attached, followed by a one inch spacer.

It sounds like your sway chain and lift link are in the right spots on the lower arm (the first two of three holes).

If I swing mine toward the tire the pin for the lift link hits right about where the side chain on a set of snow chains would be.

Sounds like the implement pin reversal would help. If that proves insufficient, (assuming the chains are non-returnable) I can steer you toward a couple places where you might get rims with more offset.



....

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blizzard
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2004-02-15          76910

WigglyB,
I can't seem to find a clear picture of the 4110 3PH, but if you can get 2" more by reversing the attachment pins, without any other interference, I'd go that route. That 2" would be less at the problem point, but may get you operational. R4's are wider than R1's and rims are different so clearances get tighter. Post your interference problem to the John Deere Owners Forum, maybe someone there has a solution or some pics of their 3PH setup you can compare to yours. I had to remove my drawbar to mount my blower, almost cut the plastic guard on the dirveshaft in half going up and down dips!
A balmy +2F here, up from -8,
bliz ....

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DRankin
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2004-02-15          76911

We were posting at the same time..... sounds like you are tracking it down.

Those pins are real easy to pull.... no tools necessary..... I do it every time I switch over to the backhoe. ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-15          76912

WB,
DRankin posted while I was 'composing' If your spacer is wrong you are probably right about the 'root cause'
Good description DR, I hope WB buys you a beer with his 'wrench money'!

Keep warm,
bliz ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-15          76916

DRankin, thanks for the detailed description of the sway bars and lift arms, and for giving me proper language to describe the parts! Do you have a 4110?

It sounds from your description that my sway bar tube and spacer ARE correct. The way I would describe it is that the 1" spacer tube is closer to the wheel than is the sway bar tube.

That appears incorrect to me compared with the fuzzy grainy pictures in the manual. It also appears that the sway bars would be more effective in the other position and push the lower draft links inward away from the tires. Am I incorrect?

You mention the pin being easy to pull with no tools, and that is what I see, just a clip holding it, and I would pull it toward the wheel rim. But can I safely do that with the blower mounted? If it's grounded? Or do I need to remove everything?
....

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blizzard
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2004-02-15          76921

WigglyB,
Chief has some pics of his 4110 (pic #15 especially) posted.
I'd certainly lower and block the blower at a minimum, they can roll. Take some pics of the setup. If its not right maybe you can get a hat or whatever from your dealer. As long as the arms are attached where DR indicated I don't think you will gain a lot my swapping the other parts. Reverse the pins on the blower, and see if everything works.
Luckily there is no snow in the forecast!
bliz ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-15          76923

Chief has a 4410, not a 4110. Not sure how similar they are. ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-15          76936

Oops... Sorry for the wrong info.
bliz ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-15          76941

OK, I just got back from my neighbor's and his 790 sway bars are set up the way I think mine should be.

I posted a pic of the existing situation as my pic #1 (oooops, replaced my original pic #1).

Bliz, you're right that the change will be subtle, but it may change the angle of the draft links enough to be useful for a wider range of implements, as well as making the sway bar work better -- right now it doesn't do a heckuva lot. ....

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harvey
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2004-02-16          76993

WB if your picture is correct your draft link/ arms are either on the wrong side or upside down. Your arms should come back reasonable straight then curve to the outside. ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-16          76998

Harvey,
Glad you spoke up, I'm fresh out of new suggestions.
-12F outside, my brain is froze...
bliz

Found this info, though. ....


Link:   Specs

 
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wigglybridge
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2004-02-16          76999

Whoa, Harvey, thanks for taking a look! It hadn't occurred to me in my wildest dreams that things might be THAT far off!

It's a bit nippy out there right now (well below 0) to wanna grab cold metal, but I'll take a fresh look with that in mind after another cuppa.

THANKS. ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-16          77000

Bliz, just took a look at your link -- looks extraorinarily NOT like my tractor's linkage. I'm going to check that hitch width measurement for sure, but the whole thing looks more like what Harvey's saying may be true. These draft arms leave the tractor already headed for trouble... ....

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wigglybridge
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2004-02-16          77044

Finally, success!

I first swapped the spacer link with the sway bar tube -- that bought me about an inch on each side, which was enough 95% of the time... but that other 5% could get really ugly. But it also makes the sway bars work properly for the first time since I got the machine and will make my rear blade work better, too, so that's peachy.

So then I flipped the pins on the attachment around to face inwards, and that makes the draft arms look the way I think they really should and gives complete clearance, at least 4 inches on either side. YAY!

I then went tooling around in our meadow, about 15" snow with ice crust on top. No problem! Ride's a bit, uh, bracing, but hey, I'll take it!

Thanks again to everybody who helped out -- you all are the greatest! ....

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DRankin
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2004-02-16          77058

If the sway chain tube is all the way to the outside.... next to the axle.... make sure the welded chain link on the tube is NOT hitting the planetary gear housing when you raise the hitch to it full extension. ....

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blizzard
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2004-02-16          77081

WigglyBridge,
Ditto on checking interference, you dont want to solve one problem and create another. Happy to hear you are able to maneuver through the snow O.K. Run your setup by the dealer, and try to negotiate something to compensate for the poor preparation.
The chains can pick up debris, snow can hide hazards, use caution in the woods.
Play safe,
bliz ....

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