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I hate my R4s part II

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-10-27          67251

Some of you may remember that I complained about R4 tires in a previous post where I couldn't get adequate traction in dry clay soil.

Well, today I found that R4 tires really suck in semi-wet clay soil too. It hasn't rained in a week and the soil around here is kind of damp but not mucky. I was out box blading an area that we cleared and found myself about 18" from a slight downhill slope. I made the mistake of stopping there to drink some water and when I tried to restart no matter what I did the tractor slid toward the slope. I was in 4WD, the diff lock didn't help much, and the direction of the steering wheels made no difference at all. Apparently the tire lugs were plugged and were incapable of gaining traction. I ended up sliding down the slope sideways and getting stuck.

See my pics 4-6.

Attempts to pull it out with my truck in 4WD failed - the M&S tires on the truck got about as much traction as the R4s on the tractor but at least the truck didn't get stuck.

I guess I'll go winch shopping tomorrow. And I'll be looking for some R1s ASAP.


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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2003-10-27          67253

Good thing you were smart enough to stop while you were still ahead of the game.

I guess R-4's are like most compromises in life.

....

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Murf
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2003-10-27          67254

Ken, I can tell you for MUCH experience, in the situation you described, the R!'s wouldn't have been any different.

The clay is the problem, NOT the tires.

The winch is some assistance, but a LONG cable is even better, and less money. We use a 250' cable at the farm, it is about 1.5" diameter, maybe even a little larger, I can't recall, but it's BIG, and very heavy, we drag it out into place with an ATV or horse. Hooked to the stuck machine and away from the stickiness to the 'rescue' machine, a little patience and pulling and hopefully voila.

The other invaluable tool is a pull frame. Never try to use a winch or cable without one. It is basically a big triangular frame, about 15' high in our case, the bottom flat has teeth which dig in to the ground for traction. The top has a stout ring to which the cable is attached. It is used by placing the flat 'toothed' side on the ground about 25' away from the stuck machine, inline with, and perpendicular, to the direction of pull, the cable is attached to the ring with the frame standing up at about 45 degrees. a strong chain is then run from the ring to the stuck machine. When you pull on the cable the fram tilts upwards translating the lateral motion into an upward pull LIFTING the machine up out of the hole, and NOT trying to drag it straight forward into the earth.

Best of luck. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2003-10-27          67261

Sorry Ken, I often see farmers looking for new farms. I tell them to buy the land and not the buildings. You can build a new building in a year or less with ease and to improve the land it will take a life time. Ken, you are just stuck in a greasy, wet, gooie, clay hole thats all!!!!just remember if you can't dig down chances are you can slide off. ....

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DRankin
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2003-10-27          67262

This might be a circumstance where a set of diamond pattern chains could help you out. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2003-10-27          67264

I made some progress getting off the precarious position. I just drove forward and knocked down a few trees in the process. All four wheels are on fairly level ground now BUT I can't get back up the hill and I can't turn around. If I try to get out by going forward a LOT of trees will get knocked down in the process.

Tomorrow I'll try a combination strategy to back up the hill. Install some chains (thanks, Mark!), use a shovel to try to smooth out the approach up the hill, and put down a couple of pieces of plywood as a ramp. Right now there's a hole near the top of the hill it just can't get out of. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-27          67265

Thanks for the info, Murf, but you're interfering with my worldview. I want to blame the R4s and have R1s make it all better :)

The pull frame makes a lot of sense but I don't have the equipment here to make one. If there were some big trees between the tractor and the pull vehicle a pulley could probably be rigged but, unfortunately, that's not the case. ....

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DRankin
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2003-10-27          67266

The fronts would be the easiest to chain, assuming the loader is on the tractor. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-27          67267

I got stuck last week going to get hay in a similar position. This time it was with my truck. I couldn't go foward w/o taking out a cattle pen, couldn't get the truck to go backwards up the hill and it wouldn't slide sideways to help me avoid the slope. I got out by using a large ammount of hay underneath my 4 wheels .

I think if you get your TRUCK traction it will pull the "relatively" lighter tractor out. I also have the junky M&S rated tires so I know what you are dealing with. The hay does help give it some bite.

Don't feel bad ojn Friday I also saw a huge cement truck get into trouble on clay at my buddies last week. SO bad thta it slid sideways to the point of falling into the forms it had just filled. Even with an excavator trying to ull it it still almost flipped into my buddies soon to be living room. Whatever side they pulled on the other would just slide out making the angle very precarious indeed! The guys were trying not to look nervous in front of the customer but afterwards they wer hooping and hollering like THEY won the World Series.

Good luck ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-10-27          67271

In muck, no tire is going to much better. Once the tire tread lugs are full of it they just spin as you have first hand experience with now. Sometimes you can push yourself backwards with the loader bucket before you get in beyond the point of no return. Aggrivating isn't it? ;-) Glad you were able to get it out without any damage. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2003-10-27          67277

Well I read right to the end of the posts and checked the pictures again. Then Chief added his two cents. I have pulled my tractor a long way out of the mud with the loader. As long as you can hold the tractor with the brakes you can even inch up hills.
In the rain forest that was the only way they moved the backhoes loader or hoe. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-27          67281

Chief, if you're congratulating me for getting unstuck it hasn't happened yet :( If you're congratulating F350 I'll join you in saying it.

F350, the hay idea is good but I don't keep any here. I've used fir branches for that purpose before, and they generally work, but this hole I have to climb out of is too much for that technique - tried it and lost already!

I had another idea which will be my first attempt tomorrow. I forgot that I have a couple of those heavy duty ramps used to drive ATVs into truck beds. I may be able to lay those on the incline and climb right up them. It's worth a try anyway. The incline is only about 5 feet high. ....

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Chief
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2003-10-27          67283

Sorry Ken, I was nursing a horrible migraine headache when I replied. For some reason I was thinking you got it pulled out. Have you tried dumping some coarse gravel in the tire path of the tractor and pulling it with your truck while at the same time the wife or a friend trys to back it out over the gravel? Sometimes some planking, plywood, or even some coarse wood chips/mulch layed out helps too. Don't mind me, I am going through a "bad patch" the last few days. ....

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Chief
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2003-10-27          67284

Ken, I was trying to remember what else I was going to suggest and the light bulb just came on. (CRS is a cruel ailment) ;-) If you have any old chain link fence try layinght that down for the tractor to get a bite on. Try if possible to stake the fence the ground good so it won't slip. Anyhow, short of getting a neighbor who has a tractor to come and help pull you out. That is about all that comes to my mind. I have had to do that once in a situation similar to yours except I got stuck of a VERY steep slope. To steep to turn around and drive up, tried to back up and couldn't, and it was too steep to go all the way down. This was one another tractor. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-27          67287

Thanks, Chief. I'm finding that I just don't have enough junk laying around. No chain link fence, no angle iron or pipe for making a pull frame. The only thing I have is some barbed wire and I'm not about to try that.

Peters, I don't think the loader will help, at least not with my current skill level. The rear tires are already in a hole and the loader only pushes the rear tires into the back of the hole instead of UP the side of it. I may end up digging by hand anyway, and if so the loader may help if it won't make it up without. ....

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JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2003-10-27          67288

My uncle once buried a 4 wheel loader while building a pond.

He got out a few feet at a time by using a cable attached to the bucked and a tree. Full bucket travel gave him a few feet of forward movement. I don't know if that would work in reverse somehow, or if the 3 point could do something similar.

This assumes you can get a long cable and find something to anchor it to.

If your terrain has a lot of this, maybe your winch idea is best.

From the looks of your soil, I may have a similar problem. How would a winch best be hooked to a small tractor with FEL? ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-27          67289

I would use the hay or whatever you had on the TOW vehicle not the tractor. I agree the tractor may be too stuck to help itself out. I think the key is getting good footing for your truck to get some bite. The truck isn't in a rut or on such a slope so with some lenghty straps/chains or a combo you hopefully can give the tractor a good tug.

If you get the truck rolling foward with a little slack in the strap it SHOULD be able to put some pull on the lighter tractor. The straps will have enough give so you don't break anything as long as you're reasonable.

You can do it! W e're all pulling for you! Well maybe not literally but you get the point :)

P.S. I am an expert on getting unstuck..... unfortunately you know how I learned :(


Oh, thanks anyway Chief ;), it helps when you get stuck next to the farmers hay barn, with several thousand bales at my disposal I could have built a bridge!
....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-27          67295

JParker, I was thinking of getting a winch that would go into a receiver hitch. Both tractor and truck have hitches (I have a 3-point receiver hitch for the tractor), so it could be used either by pulling from the truck or the tractor.

F350, I tried fir boughs on both the tractor and truck but it wasn't enough. My tow chain is only 20 feet long which leaves the truck on a grassy area. If I end up trying to tow again I'll have to get a longer chain so the truck can pull from the gravel road.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement! I'll keep you posted on my progress. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-27          67297

When I bought my 35'- 30,000 lb straps I only ordered one. The first one arrived and they sent me a second one a week later and I kept it and paid again.

As luck would have it I have needed about every inch of the 70' the 2 combine to make. Guess I was lucky they screwed up the order. Now with the tractor chain I am close to 100' of length.

It is always the case of you need 22' you have a 20' chain :(

Keep us posted ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2003-10-28          67303


I thought you had a farmer neighbor real close by???

Get yourself some good tire chains on all 4 for working in slimmy clay.

Good luck ....

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Art White
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2003-10-28          67312

Okay Ken I haven't been here before but here withj you guys but here we go! The best tractor tire for you and your clay would be one with bars at about 35 degree's for cleaning. Many today including your industrials are only in the low 20 degree's area. The 20degree bar will give you better traction on firmer ground, but a loss for your ground. On the firm ground that 23degree or there abouts will give you roughly seven percent more traction then a 35 degree bar. They are doing a lot with varieable bars where they have sections at 23degrees but they also run into 30 degrees in spots. So it looks better right, in your conditions not so as when the clay gets to the bend in the bar it won't and so there you area again sitting on the top and no way to go anywheres. If you are to make it work buy as steep of a bar tire as you can and that will be the best. To have a wide bar is not to your advantage as you are not able to reach into the soil and grab it with the bar like your industrials. Remember, skinny, steep bars 35dgegree and nothing less. They are everything you don't want on a lawn unless, is your lawn made of clay,? maybe they would work there too! ....

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blizzard
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2003-10-28          67317

This is a little scarey, but it has worked many times for me:

Get a long length of 3/8 or 1/2 nylon rope, at least twice as long as the distance from firm ground to the stuck vehicle plus some slack. Attach to drawbar and car or truck and leave 15-20 ft of slack. Drive foward 10-15 mph and pull till you get a good 'stretch' but don't break the rope as it will snap like an elastic band! Set brake and put pulling vehicle in gear (or Park). Start stuck vehicle and slowly try to back out; using the 200-1000 lbs of force from the stretched rope will often enable a Ford Escort to pull a stuck F250 4WD from a snow packed borrow pit (Don't ask me how I know this! )

You gotta use some common sense about this. Don't walk over or close to the rope. Use safety gear! Don't attempt to put MORE tension on the rope with the stuck vehicle. Most nylon rope has a colored strand that pops up if you over stress it. Don't over-stress the rope. Use bowline and shackles attach rope. Start gently and work tension up. Realize if the rope breaks it may snap back towards YOU. I find going about 15MPH with my Escort and 50FT of doubled 3/8 nylon (getting 10-15% stretch) works pretty good. With bigger vehicles use 1/2 or 5/8 rope doubled, some trial and error and horse sense and you should be O.K.

Once you get out, see if your budget will allow traction chain purchase (;>

bliz ....

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Murf
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2003-10-28          67319

I was speaking to a friend last night who offered thier family secret methods for getting unstuck, they live in an area notorious for it's clay.

First method which is apparently the easiest, is to take some scraps of 2" x4" the same length as the tire is wide, and a pair of canvas binder straps. Place the 2" x $4's around the wheel like paddles then put the strap around the center line of each tire to hold the wood in place, it's not graceful but apparently it will give you enough grip to climb out of anything.

The second method is a last shot only, you lower the rear tire pressure to the lowest possible point then tie a stout rope around the center line of each tire and tie the other end off to some form of anchor. When you put the tractor in gear the rope winfds around the tire and acts like a massive winch.

Of course there is always the local tow truck, but that's not as much fun.

Best of luck. ....

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TomG
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2003-10-28          67320

I can't judge how precarious the tractor's situation is from the pics. I wonder if you've tried pushing it back up the hill with the loader bucket. It'd be easy enough to end up with a worse situation by thrashing around. You might extend the bucket to max, dig in the blade, put the tractor in gear and let the tires spin with the diff lock engaged; and then curl the bucket. That works for me from time to time but I haven't has to push myself up a hill either.

If a backhoe were mounted, the boom and stabilizers can help lift the rear wheels to get something under them as the loader can for the front. Getting things under the tires really helps and trying to tow vehicles with the tires mired in has the potential of breaking things--especially on cars. People sometimes use lumber or plywood to hold tires out of a mire and build miniature roads to firm ground. Just don't be downhill of the tractor or get your hands under anything.
....

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Art White
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2003-10-28          67322

Murf, anothere variation of that is to cut the wood or use a bar so you can chain from one side of the tire over the rim to the other side. Logs, 2x4's or anything will work for this. Another thing might be to just get a set of chains like double rings. ....

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boatman
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2003-10-28          67332

Call a tow truck and have them pull you out with a cable and winch(this is a simple task for a competent tow operator). Once the tractor is back in the barn you will have time to go through all of these suggestions and decide what to do before operating in the slop again. I agree with using tire chains. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-28          67343

harvey, our farmer neighbor is more a hobby farmer - he is a full time realtor and is not usually around on weekdays. He has lots of equipment though and could probably pull me out if I wait till the weekend. One problem I have is that nobody is home around here during daylight hours, including my wife, so I'm on my own until the weekend.

Art, thanks for the good tire info. The dealer said that R1s tend to be self-cleaning and that the R4s should work in our clay. From what some have said here there are no guarantees that R1s would be any better. I may bite the bullet and get a spare set of 35 degree R1s and wheels. Problem is I'm out of places to store all this stuff - I need to build a barn.

blizzard, I can only say the idea of straps or ropes snapping scares the heck out of me. I like chains for their low-snap characteristics. Maybe if the tractor had a full cage...

Murf, that paddle idea would probably work but would take awhile to build and install. The axle wind-up idea would probably work but that scares me too.

TomG, the tractors initial position was fairly precarious but it's on level ground now. It's now just a matter of getting it back up the hill. The loader doesn't seem to help much because the tough part is getting the rear tires to climb out of the hole and the geometry is such that extending the loader and curling the bucket actually pushes the rear tires harder INTO the hole instead of UP THE SIDE of the hole. I will be hand filling the hole with a shovel this afternoon.

boatman, your tow truck idea is probably the easiest and safest bet. If I can't get it out today by filling the hole and using my aluminum ramps I'll have a tow truck pull it out tomorrow.

I can't try anything until this afternoon since I have an appointment in town late this morning.

Thanks everyone for your ideas! You folks are indeed a most helpful group of people. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-28          67344

Yes, the straps are scary. I keep the truck tailgate up and the bed toolbox lid up when using. That provides good protection for me.

The straps I use are 30,000lb straps, our tractors have no chance of snapping them and the truck won't snap them pulling something as light as your tractor. I have maxed out my truck pulling some trees with them and so far so good. I did however pull the center 5'" section of an 8" tree out, the tree fell straight down and the section came whipping back at the truck end over end while I accelerated away hoping it wouldn't catch up. LUCKILY IT DIDN'T!

Pulling with the tractor I use the 30' chain almost exclusively. The straps are used for pulling other people out with the truck mostly. The nice thing is when people don't have tow hooks you can wrap the strap around some other part without damaging it or ripping it off due to the give it has.

I guess they are both useful in different cases. But I agree the chains are safer. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-28          67376

Well, here are the results. I managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Using a shovel I filled all the holes that I kept getting stuck in and roughed in a dirt ramp up the side of the hill. Then I cut down a bunch of fir branches and layed them on the ramp to increase traction.

I climbed on the tractor, and in 4wd with the diff lock held down I started backing up. Up, up, up, slowly I backed up the hill. I managed to get to the top of the hill when.... the left side of the hill gave way and I slowly rolled over to the left. It happened so slowly I never worried and the ROPS did it's job.

See pic #7.

A call to a tow truck and $128 later and the tractor was up the hill and back on all fours. I could find no damage at all - these are tough little tractors. A little battery acid leaked out the holes in the caps but not enough to worry about. All fluids look fine. I washed off the acid and it started right up and sounded fine.

I think the entire hill was man-made out of the soil excavated from our house, which is why it is so soft over there. The shovel went right in with no effort while digging. I will have to avoid that entire area until next summer, at which time I will have a dozer come out and level it all out. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-10-28          67379

That looks ugly seeing a new machine on its side...I'm glad you werent hurt...do you think the tow truck could have got you out from the bottom prior to your last solo attempt out?

Ducati996 ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-28          67381

Yeah, I'm sure he could have pulled me out - in fact he did pull me out from pretty much the same position. First he tied on the high side and pulled it upright on the side of the hill. Then, while his line held the tractor on all four tires on the incline I drove it slowly forward while he slowly played the line out. This left the tractor in the same position as I started the day. He then hooked on the back of the tractor and pulled me out in a different direction away from the collapsed earth. ....

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Chief
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2003-10-28          67382

Ken, I am really sorry the tractor rolled on you. Very glad you were not hurt.(aside from a strained sphinkter muscle, a ruined pair of underwear, and your heart having to endure a huge addrenalin dump) ;-) The biggest thing to be aware of in a rolling incident besides wearing the seat belt and keeping arms, legs and head in the ROPs protection area is to get the engine shut off IMMEDIATELY to prevent oil starvation. All the oil runs away from the sump pickup and it is not pretty if the engine keeps running. Looks like you were on top of that. Glad there was no damage to your tractor and everything turned out alright. I can imagine the stress factor as all of this took place. Sounds like you handled it very well. ;-) ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-28          67386

I don't actually remember shutting off the engine. I hope I did it in time to prevent damage. It still sounds fine so hopefully all is well. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-28          67397

Darn that stinks. At least your fine and now you have another tractor "war story" Very glad your tractor is well also.

I will make a mental not to tie the top of the ROPS to something next time I am stuck in a similar situation. This way I have a safety net while I try to free my stuck machine Don't feel bad I have been close to the same end result :D

....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-29          67402

I am glad that everything seems OK. This is not exactly the end of the story that anyone expected, but at least you are OK. ....

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blizzard
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2003-10-29          67403

Sorry to hear of your unsettling experience, but glad you are O.K. and no damage to your machine.

bliz ....

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TomG
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2003-10-29          67414

Sorry to hear it but glad the results were little damage. I sort of expected to hear that you were able to get dug out and the tractor back up the hill under it's own power. It's a good reminder for everybody that hills themselves can be untrustworthy.

I expect that I would have ended up in the same situation if I had decided to spread the fill for an old cellar with my tractor rather than letting the guy with the dozer do it. I suspect that hills are like people--they have to stand awhile before they can be trusted. ....

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Chief
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2003-10-29          67439

Ken, the more I thought about it last night the more I thought it would be a good idea (at least prudent ;-) ) to contact your local John Deere dealer and talk to the service guys in the back and ask them if there are any areas or special inspection you should look at or do after rolling a tractor. It is probably nothing, but it sure would not hurt to ask. After my many years in aviation in the military, I found out there was almost always a "special inspection" required after any type of incident or unusual occurance with the helicopters. Best to check and be sure than to find out later that some type of inspection was required. ....

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Art White
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2003-10-29          67443

Ken, sorry to see what happened to your and your pride and joy. After looking at your tractor I will only tell you from my experiences, not counting on hill sides giving away the ag tires with the steep bars will give you a lot more traction. The tires you have are not very aggressive at all as far as the tread on the tire and I mean even for depth. The difference just from one manufacturer to the next is often very notice able and in your case it would be. We often joke that with much of the land not to far from here that you could sit in place and never dig down or bury yourself as you could sit and spin on the clay and just never move. Even with the ag tires a customer bought a 180 horsepower tractor with 23.5-32 on the rear and his 145 horsepower would out plow it all day long. the help all joked that it never went down and for the most part there F-250 pick-up could pull more as it did pull it out several times. Do not buy the widest tire as you will need to have ground pressure to get into the clay to have traction.
....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-29          67447

Chief, that's a good idea. Due to rain I won't be out on it for a few days so it's a good thing to check on.

Art, that's exactly what it was like. When it lost traction I could sit in one place and spin the tires and the tractor neither moved nor dug itself in deeper. It was like the tires were an inner bearing race and the soil was the outer race and the two surfaces just moved against each other without much friction.

Skinny wide-set deep lug high angle R1s are looking better all the time. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-29          67449

"Skinny wide-set deep lug high angle R1s are looking better all the time.
'
How are those sharp edged "rice paddy" tires I see on grey Yanmars?

They look like they would be great mud tires??? probbaly would wear fast on hard stuff though?? I am sure some of our members have them.

....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-29          67452

Those rice paddy tires would have got me out of the hole allright. A set of those would be safer all around since I'd probably be in the hospital with back troubles due to the r-r-o-o-u-u-g-g-h-h r-r-r-r-i-d-e LOL ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-29          67453

Yeah, they might be a tad bumbpy but they rule in mud bog races!

Guess they only really are good in mud or soft, freshly tilled fields. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-29          67454

I have only seen those rice tires used in flooded and muddy river bottom areas. They work very well in that type of field, but they aren't much use on normal or hard ground.

Nothing will work when the ground gives away. ....

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F350Lawman
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2003-10-29          67455

Nothing will work when the ground gives away

Uh, yeah that doesn't make tire selection all that important :( ....

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Murf
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2003-10-29          67456

Tracks, they work whether the soil is sticky stiff clay or soggy peat bogs, floation with grip, ya' gotta love tracks, short of a propeller they are best think for crossing bad ground.

Best of luck. ....

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DennisCTB
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2003-10-29          67458

Chief,

Just curious, before Ken goes down to his dealership about the roll over, what does your Deere warranty say about your coverage after an accident?

Dennis ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-29          67460

Murf, when you get a tracked vehicle stuck you have a whole new perspective on the word "stuck." ;-) ....

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Art White
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2003-10-29          67463

Rice tires are not the answer to the problem as you can't get penetration to make them work in the clay the rice tires need loose soil that is easily fractured and the bars height helps to grab more. There is a new style radial which has a higher bar on the ag tires and they are great for loose soil too but not the best for this.. I've worked in the same stuff east coast west coast clay is clay might just be a different color. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-10-29          67465

Art, does anyone make a more flexible sidewall R4 or are they all pretty stiff? ....

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harvey
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2003-10-29          67468

Chief you asked a VERY important question about post rollover inspections.

Any time someting has been on its side the posibility of oil leaking past the rings and filling the top of cylinder is there.

With a gas engine you simply pull the plugs and roll it over. Diesel is a whole different ball game. You pull injectors or with the older engines you can use the fuel throttle in the off position to keep it from starting and bump the engine over slowly. On the newer engines you need to disconnect the electric valve so the engine will not start and bump it over slowly. Once you are VERY satisfied the the engine will turn over VERY FREELY. You can "probably" (used very loosely) be safe starting it with out blowing a head off or breaking a connecting rod etc...

If it has oil above the piston the oil is not going to compress and something will usually break.

Hope no one ever has a need to have to use this info. Harvey ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-29          67469

Harvey, that's a good point but I didn't think about it before starting it. The tow driver asked me to start it up and I just did it without thinking. The good news is it started right up, didn't smoke, and sounds fine so I don't think there's a problem. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-10-29          67470

Dennis, the warranty has a general disclaimer that says John Deere may deny warranty coverage if the part has failed due to abuse, neglect, etc. I suppose rolling it would fall into that category :) But I wouldn't be dumb enough to go into the dealership and say, "Hey! I rolled my tractor! Please fix under warranty."

Anyway, the only damage I can see is that some battery electrolyte leaked and one cell is pretty low. I won't even try to claim that under warranty - it gives me a good reason to buy a sealed AGM battery for it. I ran it around for an hour and everything seems just fine. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-01          67694

I have Ford 1910 with R1s on it and have been told that R4s will stand up better to the rough rocks here in the Ozarks. Which tires are better for clay, rocks, black dirt, etc.? The tractor is used for general duties on a 100 acres of Ozark hillsides. From landscaping a new house on a hilltop to pulling a hayride for a church group.

The rears are in great shape, and while the fronts are still servicable, the show signs of having been used a lot, decent anount of tread, but torn with small chunks out. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-01          67698

I posted this message before reading through all the posts. I see that my question has been partially answered. Which tread should wear the best on jagged, rocky ground?

Art, or others, would you be willing to share which brands of tires you have better history with regarding steep bars, sharply angled bars, R1 vs R4s? ....

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harvey
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2003-11-01          67713

Greenhornet My little 1500 ford had r1s on it. They had several cuts a sign of spinning on rocks etc. I never had any problem using r1 on my lawn, woods or where ever EXCEPT on hard packed snow driveway. I never felt the bumpty-bump the others talk about with r1s.

If you have a 1910 and I suspect you probably have original rubber. I would just replace the fronts when they need it.

My 4400 I ordered with turfs. I like them for everything I do except wet soil in the woods or mud. Then I have to use chains and the problem is solved. In the heavy wet snow I also use chains. I think the next tractor I get I'll go back to the r1s.

I have operated a lot of equipment off the hard surfaces and have NEVER been impressed with the r4 (industrial) tires. IMO they are only good on hard gravel or paved surfaces. I have spent a lot of time pushing hoes with the back hoe.

If you are operating in a quarry environment or lots of road travel r4 would be an excellent choice.

Harvey ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-11-01          67720

Greenhornet,
I live in rocky desert. R4 tires do well over sharp rocks, cactus, and ride smoothly over hard ground. They have worked well on wet sandy soil. But we occasionally get a condition that would be difficult for any tire.

We only get a few inches of rain per year, but when it rains, it can get slick on the surface as the rain does not sink into the ground very well. I have trouble walking on this slick ground and the tractor does not do well on that stuff either. The ground stays hard a couple of inches below the surface and the top can get slick like grease. Fortunately, there are only a few slick spots like that.

So, in general, I like my R4s and cannot think of a tire that would better suit my purposes. Radial construction might be a plus, but I have never checked to see if they make radial R4s. I have calcium ballast and it would probably be better to not use fluid in the tires if you can avoid it.

....

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Art White
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2003-11-01          67723

Greenhornet, you are between a rock and a hard place! Clay tells me you need the steep bars! Stones tell me you need to have R-4's. The plies in a tire will help you get to a tougher tire. I don't always go per brand as the types and styles keep changing. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-01          67740

Ken, I was out mowing yesterday evening on some pretty steep slopes and I got to thinkin' about your incident. As upsetting as it must have been for you (as I am sure I would have been as much or more) I think we could all could definitely benefit from your experience as far as the behavior of the tractor leading up to and during the roll over. Can you post how far the tractor went over before your sphinkter alarm went off and what you did. (I would think it would be instinctive and almost involuntary response to put your hands out the break the fall at first) As I was cutting on the slopes I guess I was wondering exactly how much of a slope and how far over my 4410 could safely and reasonabley lean before going over.

In my days for flying helipcopters, our slope limits were 15 degrees maximum and then limited even more by weight and external loads and orientation on the slope. It would be very valuable to have a good idea as to where and what the limits of our tractors are so we can stay WELL away from it.

Again, VERY sorry that happened to you and even more so that you or the tractor were not hurry or damaged. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-01          67741

Well, it's sort of funny. My sphincter alarm never did go off! I think that's because things happened so slowly and I had time to work through the whole thing in my mind. It probably took 5 seconds to tip all the way over, so I had time to think about hanging onto the wheel and riding it out. First the ground started sliding to the left, taking the tractor with it. At that point I was thinking how to get out of the situation without making it worse. As the tractor started tipping the loader arms contacted a small tree which slowed the rollover considerably. The tree slowly got pushed over and the tractor never was completely on it's side - maybe it was 10-15 degrees tilted up when it finally came to rest. I was lucky not to be pinched between the tractor and a tree, but because that was not the case I just hung onto the wheel and went with the flow. My instincts never told me to reach out and stop the fall.

How far can it go without tilting? I dunno - I think when the ground gives way you are SOL no matter what. I generally try to go straight up and down the hills anyway. In fact the tractor never would have gotten stuck in the first place except for the fact that I found myself sideways while sliding slightly downhill and to correct the situation I turned the front wheels downhill and went forward to straighten out. ....

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WillieH
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2003-11-05          68042

Ken -
I was intersested in your disgust with your R4's...so I just had to read on and see your pics. I change from turfs to R4's, for the slimy seasons, as you see in my pics #2 & #4. If I did not have them, pic #4 would definitely not be a gag pic. I have to ask though, your #7 pic shows what seems to be a reasonably flat area...how did it roll?

-Willie H. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-05          68044

Willie, I LOVE your weather channel service features! I gotta get me one of those. It is able to be mounted on the tractor so you can get the most current weather temp. updates? Might be some problems with it while traversing over rough, bumpy terrain. ;-) ....

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Murf
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2003-11-05          68045

Willie, pictures being two dimensional are poor at relating slope unless the picture takes in enough area to be able to compare one area to another. If you look closely you will see that the 'flat area' is actually quite a downhill slope.

We have to deal with hills a LOT in our business. I always thought it was curious that the same golfers who complain about have to hike up & down endless hills also don't want to play flat courses because they're not interesting or challenging enough.

This unfortunate incedent of Ken's, luckily he was OK, serves to illustrate very well why we always traverse hills at as close to 90 degrees as possible and with two machines in tandem if the hill is very large or steep, the difference in stability is unbelievable.

Best of luck ....

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WillieH
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2003-11-05          68047

Murf -

I did not pick up on the slope in that particular pic. You are very correct when you talk about the two dimensional aspect of a photo - a wider comparison is definitely beneficial; it looked to me as if they were two different areas in which the tractor was experiencing problems, once on the slope, then a second against the trees on its side. I've been told that I need new glasses, again. I guess they're right ! LOL

-Willie H. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-05          68048

WillieH, I noticed too that my rollover pic looked like a fairly flat area. A trick of the camera I think - it drops about about 6 feet in height at a fairly steep angle. I'll try to take a picture of the slope from the downhill side later today and post it.
....

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WillieH
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2003-11-05          68049

Chief -
I believe it does come in a dash mounted virgin...ah - version! lol I eventually had to take it off...after riding over the bumps and the like, everytime I got off the tractor and came indoors, the better half would wonder why I had two black eyes! LOL
-Willie H. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-05          68052

Willie, bet you can save big bucks on glow plugs and electric use on the block heat with the dash mounted unit. ;-) ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-05          68054

OK, I've posted a couple of new pictures that should give a better perspective of the slope I rolled on. See pics 8 and 9. These were taken from the downslope side.

As far as the weather channel goes, if that picture is representative of all weather channel programming I'm gonna cancel all the other channels! ....

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WillieH
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2003-11-05          68055

Ken -

Certainly adds a different perspective to the slope. WOW!
I think I would still be changing my shorts!
(glad you enjoyed the "weather channel" pic)

-Willie H. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-05          68059

Harvey, AC5ZO, Art, Thanks for the input. I guess there isn't a one best tire for me. I'll just stay with what have now. However, I wonder if R4s on the front and R1s on the rear would be a workable configuration. At first blush it sounds like a dumb thing to do, but I think the R4s would be helpful with the loader. Would this combination give me the best of both or the worst of both? The R1s on the front now will wear out before the rears will. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-11-05          68065

I assume that you must have a 4WD tractor.

Drive ratios are critical on tractors and are not easily adjustable. You need to balance the groundspeed between the fronts and rears. So mixing types and sizes is difficult and could put a lot of strain on the drivetrain.

I would recommend sticking with a setup used by the manufacturer. ....

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harvey
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2003-11-05          68075

How often do you wear out a set of tires? My little ford 1500 I had for 13 years put about 500 or so hours on it a year had original tires on it when I bought it (It was 5 years old then) and I used it 5-6 years before I replaced those, front only and the replaceme were 6+ when I traded it and the fronts were just starting to show wear.

One thing crosses my mind as we talk about tires someone, me thinks, may have posted the thought also, (TomG?). but if you are doing lots of loader work and are having trouble backing up slipery slopes or away from piles you may wanna reverse your front tires so they are on backwards. Lots of farmers do this that have bunks on softer ground.

....

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TomG
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2003-11-06          68111

A former regular here or another board said he ran a mixed set of R4's front and R1's rear for years. Apparently worked fine. The R4's have less traction and ride rougher than R1's but they have high load ratings for heavy loader work. The lower traction might reduce front drive train stress compared to R1's for heavy loader work. I don't know if there's such a thing as radial R4's but if so they might ride easier.

The trick is finding a set of R1's and R4's that have rolling circumferences close enough to a factory set to put front axle lead within tolerance. Some tractors have quite a bit of tolerance to leads higher than factory spec--especially if not operated on high traction surfaces.

I think I did mention turning the tires around awhile back. The context was a comparison between turning them around and switching sides. Each would widen the stance for most wheels but turning them around reverses the tread for directional tires such as R1's--may not make much difference with R4's. As Harvey mentioned having more traction on the front in reverse can be an advantage. By the same token, not having high traction going into a pile also may be good. Traction shifts from the rear to front drive as the bucket takes on load. Turfs that flatten a lot under load gain a lot of traction.
....

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AC5ZO
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2003-11-06          68130

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the fronts should be set to roll a few % slower than the rears to allow for rear tire slippage. This may be best for a typical draft load. But, I agree with Tom that there is some play on lower traction surfaces.

Smoothness of ride may depend on the application. Where I live, R4s are much smoother to ride on than R1s. This is because the ground is so hard that it places it is like pavement. Certainly the R4s have a stiffer sidewall, but with R1s you get bounced with the movement of every tall lug. The first time that I drove a tractor out here with R1 tires, it was like driving down railroad tracks over the wood ties.

I know Mark uses turfs in similar terrain to mine. ....

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Art White
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2003-11-06          68171

Gosh, you made the hair stand right up on my back! 2 to 5% lead for the front. You need that to turn the tractor. To be of any help at all you need to lead. To go faster and you will just spin them off quickly when you get to 7% it means two sets of fronts for every set of rears. How confusing for your drive train, every 500 to 1000 hours having that quick of wear. To go slower and you are also into wear but from scuffing or sliding,and more punctures. This is often found in auto engaging axles that don't get started till they are about 4% behind the game. This is the worst but not quite as bad as two wheel drive. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-07          68177

It sounds like I might as well continue to live with the short comings of the R1s I have as compared to the R4s that I don't have. Thanks for the perspectives. ....

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greenhornet
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2003-11-07          68178

It sounds like I might as well continue to live with the short comings of the R1s I have as compared to the R4s that I don't have. Thanks for the perspectives. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-10          68418

An update. My dealer offered to take my R4 tires and wheels in on trade for a set of brand new R1 tires and wheels for $300, which includes travel time and having the service truck come out and do the swap. The R4s are loaded so they weigh a ton. $300 is less than the price of a set of chains for the R4s, so I'm going for it! Of course in our soil I may end up having to buy chains for the R1's anyway, but I won't know for sure until I try 'em. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-10          68427

You better jump on that deal Ken! He who hesitates has lost. ;-) ....

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Art White
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2003-11-10          68429

Ken, if you go to the JD web site you can see how much you paid for the industrials vs the ag tires if you want. Then again maybe not. ....

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blizzard
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2003-11-10          68435

Ken,
I run unloaded R1's on my Kubota L3130 and have been very happy with their performance this summer/fall. Now that the ground is starting to freeze, traction may suffer. Rear are Firestone 'Traction Field and Road', a 23-degree lug. Front are Goodyear, 'POWER TORQUE', 35-degree I guess. I haven't had any issues with rough ride, even on my driveway at speeds from creep to 12MPH. They won't make a tractor into an ATV though, and they will mark up the ground, especially in FWD. Being narrower than R4's, the front wheels sink in easily with a full bucket. At 225 hours I have yet to be 'pull me out' stuck, but have had to drop the load and use bucket assist sometimes. I keep off the septic field always, and avoid the 'lawn' whenever I can, especially if it has rained recently. I did buy chains for the winter, as my drive has some steep shoulders I wouldn't want to be sliding(rolling) down. You might want to check the maximum recommended mounting width, as I think R1's may not give you the same stability as your R4's. You already have some pretty expensive tires, and may have to buy chains anyway....I'd tend to keep the R4's and try chains, but the decision is yours.
Good luck with your tires/chains/tractor, keep the shiny side up. bliz ....

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Art White
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2003-11-10          68438

I think at the right time you might be able to have the ag's for double the price to trade or less. Check the factory bolt patern,call some bone yards. They mightr be the same as some other tractors. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-10          68439

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about regarding cost. The standard tires on the 4WD 4310 are 7-14 6pr R1s front and 11.2-24 4pr R1s rear. The R4s I have now are 6pr, 25x8.5-14 front and 15-19.5 rear, a $200 option. The R1s I'm trading for are 6pr, 7-16 front and 12.4-24 rear, and are a $220 option - a little more than the R4s I already paid for.

As far as stability, I'll have them set the R1s for the widest setting at 54.7 inches which is better than the widest 43.6 R4 setting. But the tractor is a little taller with the R1s so I'm not sure, but I would guess the R1s at their widest would be a little more stable.

bliz, in my soil using chains with the R4s would seemingly be a year-round requirement. I've gotten stuck in bone dry soil here in a near-level field, and can't tell you how many times I've gone a-sliding down small hills due to poor traction. ....

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Art White
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2003-11-10          68442

Ken, sorry but when you go to replace the r-4's in every other price book I've seen you pay more for industrial tires. I didn't even check to see. ....

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blizzard
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2003-11-10          68444

Ken,
R4's for my L3130 were a $875 option. I think you got a good deal.
bliz
....

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blizzard
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2003-11-10          68447

Ken,
I had forgotten you also had problems with dry soil. Here, it seldom gets really dry, and when it does traction with R1's is still acceptable. Using mid-range 4WD when on my pit-run driveway minimizes rutting while raking, back dragging and stump/log pulling.
The ideal tractor for this land would:
1) Be small enough to fit in the garage.
2) Fit my budget.
3) Have 28" ground clearance, because under the sod and
'clay loam' there's pretty firm clay/gravel.
( I can dream, can't I ? )
bliz ....

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TomG
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2003-11-11          68461

Blizzard's comment about the garage reminded me that I have very little overhead clearance to get my tractor into the shed. In my situation I wouldn't be able to change to R1's without building another shed. Well, it's really an arctic shelter tent and needs to be replaced. Anyway the clearance thing is one of those details that's easy to forget about. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-11          68471

Thanks for the reminder, Tom, but for a change my CRS didn't fail me this time. When I was at the dealer I remembered the height issue, borrowed a tape measure, and measured the height of a 4310 with the R1s I'm getting. 92 inches, which leaves me 4 inches of clearance getting in the garage. I'm sure glad I specified big garage openings when this house was built. If I had to rely on my memory to fold down the ROPS I know my garage wouldn't be intact for long. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-13          68688

I posted this on another thread but thought I'd copy it here in case anyone doing tire research is interested in the information.

My Titan HI-TRACTION R1s 12.4-24 rear and 7-16 front were installed late this afternoon, too late to try 'em out. These are an upgrade from the 11.2-24/7-14 R1s that are standard on the 4310/4410 tractors. I had them set to the widest setting. The extra 5" diameter and extra foot or so of width really makes it look like a bigger tractor. With the new tires ground clearance is increased by 2.5" and the ROPS now clears my garage door by only an inch.

If I ever have to install chains on these puppies I'll have to have the rear fenders trimmed. There's only about 1.5" of clearance between the tread and the fenders.
....

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TomG
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2003-11-14          68710

Ken: Take care with the clearance if you get an ice buildup in front of the shed door. I get that detail too although I have about 6" of soft flap as a reminder that I need to cut down the ice. I'm full of small details lately. Hope you like the tires and don't go for more wild rides. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-14          68727

I hadn't thought of that Tom. Thanks for pointing it out. Ice isn't usually much of a problem here, but I have heard that once in awhile it can be. Like the time in 1919 (?) when the Columbia river froze over. ....

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Chief
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2003-11-14          68728

Ken, be sure to post your observations on the new R-1 tires. I am curious as to how they will perform. Can you also take note and see how much they leave tracks or imprints on the lawn. I have to drive my tractor across the yard to get to where I do a lot of work. I like the fact that you can adjust the width of these tires too. That should make a world of difference on slopes. I will have to take a look at my tractor's fenders and see if it is possible to "shim up" the fenders to make clearance for chains. I hate the idea of cutting on the fenders. I would think that something along the lines of a piece of metal or phenolic block could be used to raise the height of the fender in relation to the tire. Don't forget the pictures!!! ;-) ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-14          68763

OK, I've posted a couple of pics of the tractor with the new tires. See pics 10 and 11. If you compare pic 10 to pic 1 you can get some idea of how they compare to the old R4s. Unfortunately I won't get to use them until (maybe) Sunday. The only impression I have so far is they give a bumpy ride on the driveway slab but I don't have much work to do there :) ....

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Chief
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2003-11-15          68824

Ken, I LOVE the extra width those tires give you. Wish I could get that with my R-4's. In any case, if you do decide to look at chains again; I found an old bookmark on tire chains: ....


Link:   Tractor Tire Chains

 
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kwschumm
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2003-11-15          68862

Another good thing about the 12.4-24 R1's is that there are a LOT more chain varieties available and they are all 30% cheaper than for the R4s. ....

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JParker
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2003-11-24          69538

Any more on the R1's?

My B7800 just came in with the R4's. Playing with stumps, I dug a lot of holes very fast with them, one/tire. Hate to think about what R1's would have done. But I was in an old pasture, I haven't ventured out onto the clay / rocky logging roads yet. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-11-24          69541

I used the R1's today to do a little work. Thumbs up so far! These have the aggressive bar angle that Art recommended. Went up and down a few sticky clay hills with no troubles at all. The bar lugs sure don't plug up as badly as the R4s but, as expected, they leave DEEP tracks. It seems like we've had 40 days and 40 nights of rain and snow recently and the ground is so soft that any wind in the 20mph range is blowing down trees. ....

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Chief
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2003-12-14          71186

Ken, I got a first hand experience of what you were talking about with the R-4's earlier this week after I tried to go across a section of plowed field after a lot of rain. I tried to stay on solid ground with grass, but this last corner of the field I had no choice. I got through it but those R-4's slipped and slided and loaded up fast. The R-1's would be nice in this instance but I can imagine what they would do to my yard if the soil is wet. The R-4's are already making a big enough mess. I may have a set of chains in my future as well but when the wallet can handle it. How are the R-1's working for you? Have you had the weather to try them out any more? ....

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kwschumm
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2003-12-14          71188

We've had a lot of rain and I've had no pressing work (other than box-scraping, which doesn't work so well on soupy clay) so other than going up and down a hill a couple of times when moving stuff to the basement I haven't used the R1s much. However, the hill was sticky wet clay and the R1s worked MUCH better than the R4s under the same circumstances. Since it rains here a lot and since I don't finish mow I'm sure the R1s will be the right tires for me. ....

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shortmagnum
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2003-12-15          71209

It sounds like other than looking cool, the R4s can be pretty useless. ....

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kubotaguy
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2003-12-15          71214

Short, I'd have to disagree that R-4's are useless. They are a nice happy medium between turf's and R-1's. They are also stiffer which is helpful doing loader work. I am very happy with my R-4's as they provide excellent traction and do not rip up the yard. We just had 8 inches of snow and then 1/4 inch of freezing rain on top of that. The R-4's went right up through there just fine and didn't spin at all. I guess it depends on your use and your ground type as well as the lay of your land.
Chief, I bought a set of chains for my R-4's but it has been too cold and I've been too lazy to put them on yet. Not only will they give me more traction but extra weight as well. They weigh at least 75 pounds each. ....

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shortmagnum
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2003-12-15          71225

Kubotaguy, As soon as I wrote that I realized it was a foolish thing to say. Of course it depends on the situation or you wouldn't see them used on construction equipment. Anyway, it's probably not the last foolish thing you'll see me post. :-) ....

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kwschumm
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2003-12-15          71226

I got a lot of good work done on the R4s but had to curse them a few times. If you have sandy soil they may be fine and I'm sure they'd be great on hardpan or any hard surface.
Both R1s and R4s would tear up mushy turf here in western Oregon where it rains 200-250 days/year. ....

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Murf
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2003-12-15          71239

Shortmagnum, don't feel bad, it's one of those diseases which gets us all as we age, this particular one is called "foot-in-mouth" disease.

It is a terrible thing, but luckily like other age-related ailments can be managed effectively, just like CRS and that nasty Hawaiian disease ...... LOL

Don't feel bad, it affects us all at one time or another.

Best of luck. ....

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shortmagnum
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2003-12-15          71244

Yup, growing older. I said this in a previous post. I think I'm turning into my old man. If the 9N didn't have it, you didn't need it.

Dave ....

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JParker
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2003-12-15          71264

OK, I give up.

CRS??? ....

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kwschumm
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2003-12-15          71266

Can't Remember Sh.. ....

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JParker
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2003-12-15          71267

10-4 ....

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Chief
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2003-12-15          71269

JParker, kinda off topic for a second but did you get the 3 pt. trailer hitch from Jim yet? If so, how do you like it?
....

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LPL11
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2004-04-22          83922

Did you sell the R4's, I have a L2900 Kubota with turf tires and would like to install R4's. If you still have thes, what size are they?
Thanks, Larry ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-22          83928

The dealer took the R4s in a straight across trade for the R1s so I no longer have them. ....

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shortmagnum
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2004-04-22          83962

Ken, my post makes #112 for this thread. For you guys who have been around awhile, is this anywhere near a record?
Dave ....

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Murf
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2004-04-22          83963

I seem to remember one about dealing with beavers that seemed to stay around for a while, another about homemade implements and a couple of others that got pretty good mileage, but I don't recall the number of posts of any of them.

Maybe our tractor techno-meister Dennis can tell us using some high tech blabber counter he has hidden away from public view.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-22          83965

Dave, it's certainly the longest thread that I know of. I'm proud to have started it :), but it may not be a record. There was one on beaver dams that sort of got out of control and Dennis had to delete it. ....

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yooperpete
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2004-04-22          83967

Most of the longer threads get way out of control long before this. I think Ken was the only one enraged about his tires while the rest of us just have minor opions in this case. Ken seems to have a cool temperament. ....

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shortmagnum
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2004-04-22          83968

Beaver Dams!! That reminds me, I have to talk to my dealer about routing hydraulics to the back of my tractor so I can hook up my BH to dig them out. My brother trapped a bunch of beaver out for me this winter so there should be fewer of them to rebuild this summer. ....

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Chief
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2004-04-22          83969

You gotta watch those dock & boat beavers! They can really be dangerous and stir up lots of trouble. ....

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Murf
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2004-04-22          83971

Chief, I got some flack over those pesky critters myself when I built my new boat.

I was accused of going with a snappy graphics package just to catch the attention of the 'dock fluff' as the head of doemstic affairs calls them. I responded by saying that if the stereo and a pair of big blocks barking into water cooled headers and thru-hull exhaust dumps didn't get enough attention, the graphics weren't going to do much more.

The issue came to head when my father saw the new tub for the first time, he said "That's not a boat, that's BIKINI BAIT!", the name stuck.

I regularly get asked if the name really does apply, I look around REALLY carefully before answering.......

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-04-22          83979

I generally try to stay cool, but get wound up from time to time like most folks. However, I don't think the R4 issue enraged me - maybe disappointment is the right word. The whole thing is sort of funny in retrospect, especially since it didn't cost a lot for the education :) ....

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DennoAce
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2004-04-22          83984

...funny I remember a similar discussion a while back while I was purchasing my new 4110 in which R4s were bascially said by most to be the cat's meow. I insisted that R1s were the only tire for "real" tractor work and I stand by that statement...

In fact it took some effort for my dealer to even FIND R1s for me since he also said R4s were by far the most popular tire for these size machines and I considered taking the wider, cool looking R4s (which are useful sometimes) but I'm glad I didn't since I knew they were sub-par to an aggresive Ag tread in real off-road work which not only includes mud but woods work, ripping hard soil, etc.

Ag tires will rarely cake up with mud and become slicks like R4s will, of course when you are buried to the axles you are done no matter what tire you have!

...as Rodney Dangerfield would say..."no respect!"

:) :)
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I hate my R4s part II

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-04-22          83987

I'm a convert. Of course I don't have to mow turf grass :) ....

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I hate my R4s part II

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texbaylea
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 51 Brazos County, Texas
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2004-04-22          84012

Here is a note for anyone that gets into a similar situation. I keep a pair of high lift jacks in my pickup - have done for years. They will lift about 7000 lbs about 42". You can push and move about anything with them as long as you have something to push against. I once move a 4wd pickup about 100' to where I could drive it out. Very slowly I grant you but I had a couple of lengths of 2 x 12's to put under them. very tired and muddy when I finished but I would have to have walked a couple of miles or more to get help. I was pretty far out in the boonies. ....

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I hate my R4s part II

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lbrown59
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Posts: 1
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2004-10-05          97728

The second method is a last shot only, you lower the rear tire pressure to the lowest possible point then tie a stout rope around the center line of each tire and tie the other end off to some form of anchor. When you put the tractor in gear the rope winds around the tire and acts like a massive winch.
Murf
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I have a 1966 BOLENS garden tractor with rear tire chains that I never remove.
I have 2 8' or 10' chains with hooks on each end.
When I get stuck I drive 2 2x2 4 foot stakes about a foot or 2 into the ground behind the rear tractor tires and at an angle away from the tractor.
I hook one end of the chains to the stakes at ground level.
The other end of the chains are hooked to the center of one of the cross chains closest to the ground of the tire chains on each rear wheel.
Then I simply get on the tractor, put it reverse and back right out on the chains as they wrap around the center of the back tires.
Only had to use this method one time but it worked slick as a whistle.

The nice part about this system is you don't have to jack the tractor up to get the chains around the tires and you don't have to let air out of the tires.
Also the tires won't spin inside the pull chains because the ends of them are hooked to the cross link of the tire chains.

It's Quick Simple & Easy.


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JoeinTX
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1 Arlingotn, Tx
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2005-04-27          110396

Like many of the others, I agree that the tire is not the only issue. I've had R-1s allow me to slip down wet, grassy embankments not much steeper that yours under the right conditions. ....

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