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Water Filled Tires

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guest
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1998-12-11          388

I am buying a New Holland Boomer with R4 tires and would like to hear comments regarding filling the tires with water or other material. It will have a loader. And, I live in a southern climate with little chance of freezing.

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1998-12-11          389

I am not sure about pure water per se, but calcium chloride solution can add several hundred pounds of weight to your rear end, improving traction. This is especially useful for loader work, where the loader load will pull down and lessen the weight on you rear end. I don't use calcium, instead preferring wheel weights. You might also consider antifreeze instead of calcium. It is said to be a bit lighter but, especially if put in tubeless tires, will be less reactive with the metal rims. Also many brands of antifreeze will have rust inhibiters as part of their formulation. Hope this helps.

Lee ....

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guest
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1998-12-11          390

If you fill tubeless tires with a liquid, how do you get rid of the air? It seems like you would have possible wheel balance probs if the tire was partially full at certain speeds, and oxygen mixed with water or some other liquid would seem like a sure cause for corrosion. I can understand filling tubes with liquid, but not tubeless. ....

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dennis
Join Date: Mar 2004
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1998-12-11          391

Calcium Cloride is such a common use for filling tires that Dow Corning lists this use right on the bag ahead of using calcium chloride for ice removal. If you fill your tires you will have to deal with the weight in total at all times, like during repairs or maintenance, also if you mow you will have too much weight for finish mowing work. If mowing is one of your objectives you could condsider wheel weights or 3PH weight which will give you traction and counter balance for loader work, and be easy to remove when not needed. ....

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guest
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1998-12-12          393

Calicum filled rear tires (75% max) will probably give you the cheapest and most practiced alternative to rear ballast. Wheel weights tend to be more expensive, provide less ballast, but are easier to work with and adjust. Calicum filled tires normally give more weight (example- my L3600 gained 581 lbs per tire), but are more difficult to work with during removal or track adjustment. The tire dealer that filled my tires recommended the calicum alternative but only after he had installed tubes.

Your choice should be dependent on the necessity of flexibility of rear wheel maintenance, expected loader weight work, general tractor use, and cost. Good luck. ....

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Bob/NJ
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1998-12-12          394

If your going to do any kind of tillage you must have wheel weight especially with the loader up front because you will loose rear traction with a loader, the Boomer is a small machine and will knock you around alot with the hard heavy tires filled with water ballast, Ive tried it both ways and I will stick with water ballast at 75% full. ....

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Farminlady
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1998-12-13          397

Hey Tex, just have your dealer fill the tires with the calcium solution. Mine are filled, I've got plenty of traction, and I only occasionally lift the rear end off the ground :-} The TC 29 with the filled tires balances pretty well, in all seriousness. I've been carrying FULL bucket loads of a silt clay mix that is very heavy, downhill, through the mud, and no problems. It gives me better traction than the C530 with a hoe on the back and wheel weights! ....

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1998-12-14          410

Frankly, I'm not sure. I know Agco has the habit of doing it and my dealer offered to put calcium in the tractor I just bought, which has tubeless tires. My guess is that once the bead is set, the air is let out and the fluid is squirted in. The remaining air will compress at the top of the tire. That is not a problem, as no tire is completely filled with fluid. My owner manual says the fluid level should not come above 75% of the tire height. As far as stability goes (particularly at traveling speeds), I hear what you say. It doesn't appear to be a problem as I do not believe the practice, as described above, has appreciably changed over the years.

Lee

....

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guest
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1998-12-14          415

To save your rims from rusting out in the future. Fill your tires with antifreeze or windshield washer fluid. ....

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guest
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1998-12-15          428

Check out Gemplers catalog. They have a tool for injecting water into a tire. The catalog has all kinds of usef stuff.www.gemplers.com. i don't work for them, I have bought stuff from them and have been very happy

carl ....

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David
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1998-12-15          437

Ok heres the deal on getting liquid in tires. It takes pressure to put the liquid in. If you are putting in calcuim cloride solution or anti freeze your must pump it in. There are various pumps you can buy to do this(they are expensive that is why only dealers have them) The pump pumps the liquid in using a special valve that has a fitting to release air manually as the liquid is pumped in. The valve stem must be at the highest point to do this. That liquid goes down, air goes up and you only let out air. If you are adding water with a garden hose (water that is already pressurized) you can buy an adapter at NAPA auto parts (not too expensive) to do this. Again you must manually release the air as the water goes in. Calcuim Cloride is used for two reasons one it acts like anti freeze to keep the liquid from freezing. (If you drive on a frozen wheel it will cut the tube to pieces very quickly) The second reason is calcium chloride adds more weight to a gallon of water. Five pounds of calcium chloride can be dissolved in a gallon of water almost doubling the weight of a gallon of water. ....

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Lee Forbush
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1998-12-15          440

Duplicate Message Deleted ....

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Lee Forbush
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1998-12-15          441

I load my garden tractors with water in the summer with a garden hose. the pressure is enough to fill them. I release the air with my knee and with the valve core out (with the valve stem at the up with the tire standing upright). When I can get all the air out I can get, then I hook an air fitting hooked to the garden hose. This can be done with a big tractor too by the use of a jack. Let the jack down to remove the air, then hook the hose to it, and jack it up off the ground so the tire can fill with liquid. When the liquid stops entering, remove the hose and let the jack back down to remove more air. Repeat this till you get liquid coming out the valve stem. (make sure the valve stem is at the top.)

If you want to put antifreeze or windshield washer fluid in them, Take a tank with an outlet at the bottom that you can attach a hose too. Use a roller pump (like is used for field spraying) hooked to the PTO or small engine, attach it to the tank (make sure the tank is higher than the pump), attach the pressure side of the hose to an air chuck to fil the tire. ....

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hkershaw
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2002-12-14          46120

I just got through with filling my rear tires with window washer fluid. Walmart had tons of it at .75cents a gal. I pulled both tires / rims off the tractor. I laid them with the fill valve facing up. I removed the fill valve guts with the proper tool. I used a funnel and vacuume hose and basically poured it in. I added a considerable amount of weight one the back of the tractor for short money. ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
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2002-12-14          46121

Why not buy a heavier tractor and forget about filling the tires? I can see using a ballast like wheel weights. That's something you can take off if not needed but loaded tires tells me the tractor is too light to begin with.

Billy ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-14          46122

Billy,
Filling rear tires $100.
Heavier tractor Thousands of $'s.
And there is no need to ever remove the ballast. ....

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Billy
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2002-12-14          46123

Filling rear tires $100.
Heavier tractor Thousands of $'s
Satisfaction if having a bigger tractor, PRICELESS. lol

Billy ....

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marklugo
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2002-12-14          46124

Filling tractor tires has been standard practice since tractors left behind the steel wheels in favor of rubber. It has more to do with a tractor being powerful enough to spin wheels. They put water in 250hp wheels with duals and 4wd. And in a smaller tractor, It can add up to 1000 lbs. of extra weight that is not being carried on the axles. It relieves bearing loads and stress.

I do have a bit of news, I have tried the washer fluid in tractor tires before and had problems. 3 or 4 g of antifreeze prevents total freeze up. Remember, this stuff is also a solvent. How else does it remove bugs? I had problems with leaks after 6 months and the innertube looked like a slimy mess. Next time take a transmission funnel stand on the seat and pour it in a garden hose and be patient.

Calcium chloride is the best answer and for the amount of $ spent on pure winshield wiper solvent, you can happily fill your tractor tires with a more friendly substance. If your tire does develop a leak, fix it right away! It is also highly corrosive to metal rims. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-14          46126

My DK 35 is plenty of tractor for my 15 acres.
But filling the rear tires helped immensely.
Especially for doing loader work. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-15          46137

Lord knows that loaded tires are about as common as fleas in August and that there's nothing inherently wrong with the idea. Weight on the wheels doesn't load axle bearings and that's good. Wheel weights also don't load bearings. They are also detachable, non-toxic and don't have disposal problems. The cost also makes you think that they were transported from another universe.

Tubes are a good idea irrespective of the fluid type. I wouldn't think of CACL as exactly friendly, but it is cheap and heavier per volume than anti-freeze types. A beet-pulp product called Rim Guard received some pretty positive comments here.

I think there an inexpensive valve that's sold for filling tires that allows use of an electric drill motor pump. It probably also takes the fluid out of tires, which is something that might be more difficult than filling them. I hear that the valve makes filling immeasurably easier and is about the only way that a typical 70% fill can be achieved.
....

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Billy
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2002-12-15          46140

I didn't mean to get anything started. I was just wondering out loud why the tractor companys don't build heavier tractors to start with (I'm talking compact here). If the first thing a person does is add 1,000 lbs to a 2,000 lb tractor.

As far as bearing loads and stress, I don't think it's an issue. If it was, they should change bearing companys. It's not like an automobile where the bearings are spinning at a gillion miles an hour, with heat build up.

Billy ....

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JerryGoucher
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-15          46141

One of the reason that the tractor manufactures don't increase the weight of the compacts is because, If they shipped them that much heavier we wouldn't be able to use them for as many different operations. If they were all 1-2000 pounds heavier, it would change if they could be used for lawn maintenance etc. By making them light they are letting the customer set it up of their individual need. ....

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marklugo
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2002-12-15          46152

If heavier tractors are your thing go to eicherinternational.com. They tip the scales around 4000lb. for 35 hp, and are similar to TC 35 in demension.
They will pull 3 14" bottom plows with 2WD only.

Weight is not neccessarily a factor in use on turf or other tender areas. Ground pressure is. A tractor outfitted with the proper tires may have ground pressure less than a much smaller tractor with smaller tires.

The main reason there are lighter tractors these days is one simple and obvious reason: cost of manufacturing. I dare say that Kubota and Shibaura(New Holland Boomer) are making money because they are cheapening the manufacturing process. I have used most all of them. I was shocked recently to look at a Kubota 2950 with stamped steel rear axle flanges. It would be a shameful salesman who would actually call this thing a tractor. There are a few of the Indian Brands and some of the Korean who get what a tractor really is. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-12-16          46155

Billy: I asked the same question awhile back related to aluminum cases on JD 4100's. They would be lighter than comparable dimensioned cast iron. They probably are able to carry less load and may be the reason why a backhoe wasn't for the tractor wasn't recommended. It does seem silly to make a light tractor and the first thing many owners do is put weight back on.

I think Jerry's comment is the idea that prevailed when the question first came up. People who buy a tractor mostly for finish mowing tend not to load the tires. A tractor can be ballasted up, but I guess that tires are about the only way to ballast a tractor down. Tires, as a solution would have limitations. Extreme tires such as flotation types can allow a heavier tractor to work on turf and some golf courses do use them. However, flotation tires have very little traction and may have other drawbacks as well.

I have certainly noticed the declining quality in almost everything I buy. However, I'm not certain that lighter weight always equals lower quality or lower manufacturing costs. I think the original reason auto manufacturers went lighter is to meet fuel economy requirements. I don't know if lighter also was cheaper. In addition, aluminum cases on tractors may be more expensive to manufacture than cast iron ones, although the question probably takes an accountant to answer. Aluminum castings probably are more expensive than iron ones for given loads (depending on electricity costs) but machining costs on aluminum probably is less. An accountant probably would consider factors like transportation costs for heavier tractors.

Complicated questions. Most times, except early mornings like this, I'd rather be using a tractor than studying on it.
....

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marklugo
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2002-12-16          46160

I have been around many design techs and factory service schools. Usually a change in design is to fix a really bad one or reduce manufacturing costs. Sure the tractor may be a little "slicker" each time but it is because more money is being poured into the technology of "cheapening" the tractor. Have you noticed the lack of true sheet metal? All fiber or Poly. now. The fenders of most tractors are aluminum foil thin. Most weekenders and small sundowners are jamming tee limbs straght through this stuff. True farmers and landscapers don't care for it.
Fiberglass and poly molds are much less expensive than buying steel dies to stamp (excess of $750k to $1mil to make a design change). That's a lot of tractors.Not to mention the idea of planned obsolescence. A company will sell a lot more parts if they get poked through by a pine limb every once in a while.
In truth, there is basically only one reason companies make design changes and that is to make more money. Don't get me wrong, I think change can be good. Companies count on customers' lack of knowledge to sell their products. I was in a New Holland Service school when they said that they had designed the Boomer to suit a woman's appeal because their research showed that she was generally the money handler in the family and if she thought it was good looking next to her Mercedes(put your car here)in the garage she would buy it. There was no mentiton of the serviceability, cost of maintenance, longevity, feature etc. Sounds bad but the truth. I actually had the chance to drive a new tc 40 a few months ago on a test farm and it was the poorest handling bone jarring tractor I have ever been on. It was good looking though. The thing is, most people never have been on a real tractor that are buying the 3 major compacts. If they have ever had any real time on a tractor, they would look elsewhere for this horsepower class with a few notable exceptions. I would say some of the John Deere/ Yanmar compacts are close to what you should expect in weight, performance, characteristics. ....

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