Loader for digging?: Loaders  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review Loader for digging?: Loaders -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 11-26-2003, 05:58 Post: 69660
imtools



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 Loader for digging?

I have been under the assumption that a FEL is not really meant for digging (penetrating un-tilled ground). Is this so? Unlike a skid steer where the arms rest against the frame of the machine when they are in the lowest position, a FEL has no support like that and the typical arm is "bent" over the front wheel which is a weak point when trying to push forward.

After loosing out on a Kubota loader attachment last nite on eBay, I am determined to design and build my own loader (I am a mechancial engineer with an extensive home machine shop so there's not much problem here other than time). I don't see why I couldn't have the bucket rest against the frame when down. I am also thinking of putting a quick attach plate on it so it can take skid steer attachments. Just think of it-all the 3-point attachments for the back AND all the skid steer attachments for the front---my back yard will be covered by attachments.






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 11-26-2003, 06:56 Post: 69667
TomG

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 Loader for digging?

Your screen name does forecast your inclinations, or maybe imtoys would work too. In either case the idea sounds pretty good.

My tractor is fairly traditional and it doesn't have a frame per se. There are side rails on the engine but the structure really is the cases. My loader frame does a decent job of distributing load but I suppose there could be better designs and it would be interesting to think about.

Here are some random thoughts. One of the problems on a tractor is that long arms are needed so the bucket clears the front tires and hood and also so the bucket can be lifted fairly high without it coming back over the tractor hood. Can't dump a load if the bucket's over the hood. Anything that the bucket rested against when down likely would have to be a structure that extended distance forward. That might interfere with some loading dock sorts of operations. You sort of have to kiss the dock with the rad guard to get the bucket high enough to clear and still be over the dock or flat-bed. There may be some drawbacks but anything that stabilized the bucket against off-center shocks (there are buried rocks and they get hit) would be good.






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 11-26-2003, 07:11 Post: 69668
TomG

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 Loader for digging?

Guess I never commented on the main question--typical I think. I never though of loaders as very good for digging although they are used. Tractors were originally called 'mechanical mules' and that sort of sums up their design for me. As a mule replacement, they were designed to deliver draft and that's still what they do best. Anytime I can get work done with draft that's what I choose.

Somewhere along the line marketers seems to get the idea that a tractor could be turned into a general mobile power source and one machine could be everything. Even with modern design any use other than draft can still be thought of as compromising basic design. Draft is still what they deliver best and features such as loaders to some extent can be thought of as 'cludged together add ons' that detract from basic function. On the other hand, I wouldn't have a tractor if all I could do with it is pull things so the marketers were successful in my case.






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 11-27-2003, 06:24 Post: 69759
imtools



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 Loader for digging?

TomG
Your points are well taken

My intent was to have nothing stick forward of the foremost point of the tractor itself. I could either put the 'brace to the frame' on the loader or another thought I had was to put another hydraulic cylinder on the tractor that could used as an adjustable stop, allowing me to fine tune the digging depth.

As far as reaching to dump at higher levels than ground, it is largely a function of how high the rear pivot point for the arms are.

I also intend to make it a self leveling bucket and reverse the linkage so that tilting the bucket back uses the push action of the cylinder rather than the pull action.

Finally, while I'm going to all this trouble, I'm going to design a clamshell bucket.

Don't hold your breath for pictures-it'll take a couple of months.






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 11-27-2003, 06:26 Post: 69760
imtools



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 Loader for digging?

P.S.
IMTOOLS is my eBay ID.






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 11-27-2003, 09:10 Post: 69780
shortmagnum

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 Loader for digging?

IM, I like the idea of the push action of the ram on the bucket curl. There is alot more surface area on the end of the piston for greater force. In another thread there is discussion of using the bucket curl to rip out stumps after you push the tree over. I've been doing quite a bit of this lately and it's been my experience that this operation is the one that could use plenty of force.






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 11-28-2003, 03:15 Post: 69816
osheen



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 Loader for digging?

I'm going to build a clam shell bucket too. Or rig up some sort of thumb on the bucket actuated by another cylinder. Similar to the thumb on an excavator bucket. I want to be able to grab brush and stumps.






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 11-28-2003, 04:58 Post: 69821
grinder

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 Loader for digging?

Your right, the Front End Loader it not meant to dig, it's
for Loading. Back hoes are for digging.
You should spend some time in the seat,since you are new to tractors,before you redesign it.






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 11-28-2003, 07:17 Post: 69830
TomG

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 Loader for digging?

I recall seeing pictures of old style loaders on old farm tractors. Some of the designs seem a little bizarre with frames built over the hood. I think the loader arm pivots were quite high and maybe even above the hood. I imagine these were trip loaders. I don't know how down-pressure would affect the design or if stability would be a problem. They probably do have shorter arms than lower pivots. A thought I had is that if the pivots were high it probably would bring the bucket closer to the tractor at ground level but then it wouldn't go much below ground level. I have seen some loaders on big tractors that seem to be intended for excavating and the buckets go quite a ways below the surface.

I'm for playing around with design possibilities but the idea is what is reasonable to do with the basic tractor structure. I sure agree that loaders aren't the best for grading let alone excavating. From my perspective (which isn't engineering so I can't actually design things), backhoes too are 'cludged together' add-ons that just don't compare to the structures of dedicated hoes but some types of work ets done just fine. If I understand why the basic cast-case tractor design is so persistent, it's that more strength can be gotten from less weight. That creates less soil compacting problems for ag work and still allows ballast to be piled on when more traction is needed. However, the cast structure is less tolerant to 'jack-knifing' stress than other designs.






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 11-28-2003, 07:52 Post: 69833
Art White



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 Loader for digging?

First line of caution is to try and keep some forward visibility. All to often the strongest design lends to other complications of the operation.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Loaders Forum

Thread 69660 Filter by Poster:
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