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Kubota loader installation

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cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2001-11-08          33035

I am new to the Kubota loader installation and have a question that perhaps someone here can answer. I have removed and installed the loader on my 2910 only twice. Both times I have had difficulty removing and inserting the left side locking pin. It seems to go smoothly through the outside of the upright, through the loader mounting assembly and then hangs up on the inside of the fixed upright attached to the machine. By eye, it is slightly mis-aligned when seated into the upright cradle, but only on the inside. By rolling the mounting mechanism slightly foreward from the cradle perhaps an eigth of an inch using the curl function, it lines up perfectly. The right side is perfect when seated in the cradle and I have no problem. Is this normal? I don't see a way to adjust this to eliminate the problem. I know what to do now to get around it, but I wouldn't think that should be necessary.

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Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2001-11-08          33037

Cutter, it's NOT normal. It should fit tightly against the back and the holes should be aligned for the pin. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-08          33039

I didn't think it was normal Bird man, but I know sometimes I am too particular. I like to adjust things like that myself rather than bother with a service call, but I'm not sure there is an adjustment. I'll take a look at it in the daylight Saturday and see what I can do, if anything. If all else fails, I'll call the dealer. After all, it has only ten hours on it. Thanks. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-11-09          33048

I believe that Bird knows very well what is normal and abnormal for this loader, so my comment is about lining things up in general. When I've got things apart on the loader, I move them around a bit with a hydraulic bottle jack and pry bar rather than running the tractor to use the loader hydraulics. Pins that fit through three bushings with small clearances (such as loader arm pins) are often difficult to line up. The right sized drift punch is useful. A tapered drift can go through one bushing to the misaligned bushing. The taper gets the punch into the misaligned bushing enough so a slight whack on the punch will align the parts. If the punch is the right size, it won't go completely through the centre bushing. The pin can be inserted from the other side and partially into the centre bushing. The punch then can be removed and the pin fully made. In my case, I removed an upper arm pin to replace a grease fitting and had a rough time trying to line the thing back up. I didn't have the right sized drift. Fortunately, I discovered that a 3ph-link pin (I don't remember if it was upper or lower) makes the perfect drift for my loader pins. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2001-11-09          33052

Cutter it is not right. Let your dealer know so he can get the parts in to straighten it out. Don't know your background but if you could tell him how much it is off then he can deal with it better. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-09          33070

I have delt with mechanical things my whole life Art. I was raised in the car business and have worked in the utility business almost exclusively. I like to make things perfect and that is why sometimes I would rather fix a problem myself than have a dealer do it, even under warranty (you being the exception). In 1987 I purchased a new speedboat with a Ford big block, I did the setup and the cleaning myself. Just couldn't bear someone slopping oil on my new engine. I did call him today however, after reading the comments here. He wants me to try the pin without the loader just to check the hole alignment (I don't think that will show anything, it goes in ok when the loader is moved forward slightly). From there, I don't know the answer. Is something misaligned due to poor setup techniques? Probably. We shall see. ....

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Bird Senter
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2001-11-09          33071

Cutter, I'm no expert on these things, but looking at my manual, and from your description, it sounds as if the pin hole in the left side of the main frame is in the wrong place, and of course the main frame is one piece so that would require replacing a rather large component. However, if it works by letting go forward a tiny bit, I suppose some sort of shim or a weld bead could be applied that would hold it forward just a tiny bit. I generally do my own service and maintenance work, too, but on a new one it should line up right. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-10          33083

Yes Bird, I too had thought of that. However after further contempletion, I decided to have the dealer replace what is wrong. I am going out with my vernier calipers this morning to check the distances on each side to see if that tells the story. Have to go to the barber shop first and pick up my Pennsylvania breakfast sausage he runs down every month or so to get. The best I have ever tasted. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-11-10          33086

I think that fixing this sort of thing in the automotive world is part of 'detailing'--more than just fancy cleaning. I think that design and production standards used to detail things for consumers. I suppose that's a piece of history now days. People (and I'm one of them) who simply want to use things without fighting with them seem to be fated to live in states of minor to serious frustration. Good luck with this one, but you might keep in mind that your dealer probably is in a similar situation. Dealers have to work with the stuff as comes off the assembly line and try to keep reasonably happy customers. However, I guess a main difference is that customers pay their money but dealers derive their income from the product. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-10          33089

I found the problem today. There is a stop in the shape of a half moon on each side of the loader frame, on the inside of the upright support. The one I am struggling with calipers at .050 back further than the three others on the uprights. That would cause the loader to travel back too far in the cradle at that point. Now I'm not sure if I want the upright replaced or will be satisfied to let the dealer break the spot weld and re-position the stop (or if I will have a choice). Find out Monday I guess. ....

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Bird Senter
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2001-11-10          33090

Just a tiny error in manufacturing that can be a major pain in the rear if it isn't fixed. I wouldn't mind them just fixing it if it were me and they can get it right. ....

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Roy Jackson
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2001-11-10          33091

.050" isn't a minor out od spec condition.
Precision holes should be match drill (within .010"). If this loader is off as much as .05", it may be that the loader or tractor are slightiy twisted.
Rework, in my experience, has been to use an eccentric bushing or weld a redrill. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-10          33096

I believe the bores are accurate Roy. The stop is what is positioned incorrectly, allowing the loader frame to travel back on that one side preventing pin installation. I qualified the holes by inserting the pins sans loader and taking readings from the back of each shaft to the face of the steel uprights. All four holes are within .005. What is even more convincing is that the movement forward when the loader is seated in the mounting frame is all that is required to line everything up. In my mind, this supports my theory. The problem I have with repairing the unit is that the paint job will be screwed up by the grinding and welding process. Like I said, I am fussy. ....

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Bird Senter
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2001-11-11          33098

Roy, when I said a "tiny" error, I didn't mean to imply that it was a "minor" error; it certainly should be fixed. And Cutter, I think even in shipping some paint sometimes gets a little damaged. When I bought my tractor, the dealer didn't have a loader and had to order it, so I had to wait on the loader to arrive and be installed. I didn't go back to the dealer during that time, but my brother called me one morning to say he had just left the dealership, that they had the loader installed, and were "touching up the paint." I don't know how much touching up they did, but when it was delivered, I didn't see where anything had been damaged and "touched up." ....

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cutter
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2001-11-11          33107

Well Bird, here I go again. I still think folks that work on new equipment ought to be carefull enough to protect the appearance at least until after there is some use on it. Since I am the one paying, I like to be the first person to destroy the finish, not give the mechanic the pleasure. My machine had two areas on the mower that the paint was down to bare metal after they mounted it in the shop. All that is, is carelessness. When I saw the damage, along with a couple other areas on the loader frame, I asked them if touch up paint was available. Apparently the only thing available from these tractor manufacturers is spray paint. I requested they send it as is, I plan on doing the detail work this fall in my heated garage. The reason for this attitude? I have purchased four new units over the last several years. Each time except the last, moving up in size (similar to boating). Each tractor had either over-spray all over it from some want-to-be body man going crazy with a spray can or globs of thick paint plastered in damaged areas. One of the major problems with the N/H was dealer prep...not only was the thing rusty, but the blue part was COVERED with over-spray from "touching up" the loader and mower. Wouldn't you think they would have at least covered the tractor before painting? None of the implements were tested either. I won't go there now, but it was in need of constant repair, much of which should have been caught at the dealer before delivery. I would say this is one of those things. The loader should have been tested to see that it functioned properly before it left the store. I know the mower was QC'd, the mechanic mentioned it, so what about the other implements. This is the type of thing that becomes very frustrating to consumers. This dealer has one mechanic that is always in over his head with workload, so in my mind the owner should be the man checking this stuff out before delivery. I know he was in a hurry to get my N/H trade as it was already sold, so the Kubota was delivered without even so much as a wash job. On the other hand, he could have prepped the N/H with a dust rag. The consumer base buying tractors has changed in the last twenty years and SOME of the older, established dealers still do not understand that. The days of selling strictly to farmers that send their machines to an orchard or muck field the next day and don't care what they look like are over (if they want to stay in business). Market demographics has presented a huge customer base wanting small tractors for "home" use. But these people expect something newly delivered to look new, much like their new one ton Dodge Ram diesel used to tow the fifth wheel, something twenty or so years ago only a farmer or contractor would own. ....

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Bird Senter
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2001-11-11          33108

I don't disagree at all, Cutter, and in spite of the "touch up" that was done on mine, it was delivered clean and shiny, and no one would have ever known it was touched up a bit. Whoever touched up the paint was obviously good at it. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-11          33113

I know we are on the same page Bird Man. You are lucky yours came out as nice as it did. I'll bet that if the dealer had tried mine before delivery (I know he didn't, I asked the mechanic) the problem would have been rectified and I would not have known the difference. It all boils down to the three things Lee said must be done to save Chrysler Corp; "satisfy the customer, satisfy the coutomer, satisfy the customer. I love my new machine but this is the third item on it that was not QC'd by the dealer that I have had to deal with. Something someone described in earlier posts as a "teething period". Fortunately in this case, the tractor has been perfect, the problems were and are implement related due to improper preperation before delivery. Whew.....going to the barn now to power wash my Kubota and remove the mower for storage. Finished my last mowing yesterday. Enjoy the rest of your weekend Bird. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-24          33383

Went out to the barn this morning to check my tractor. It appears the dealer was here and had worked on the loader while I was away. I could tell by the paint that was knocked off the frame and the grease all over it. They are not open today, so asking them what they did is not an option. What I believe happened is that the mechanic loosened bolts with the loader in the down position until the left side pin went in and out easily, unfortunately that did not correct the problem. As soon as the front of the tractor is lifted per the instruction manual for removal of the loader arms, the loader rests in the improperly welded cradle and creates the same situation as before. It is apparent they did not listen to me when I explained the problem and that they are not familiar with the removal procedure for a Kubota loader. I am becoming very frustrated. I just knew I should have fixed the thing myself. I'll spend more time just cleaning and touching up what they damaged. Just another disappointment in customer service. Now I have to try and hold my tongue when I call Monday, I do like the owner and don't want a bad relationship with him. ....

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JerryG
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2001-11-24          33392

Cutter,
I would not like it that paint had been knocked of either. But I don't think that I would repaint it quite yet. Perhaps the mechanic tried to ajust the housing and then saw that it didn't fix the problem. If this is right you may find out monday that a new housing has been ordered. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-25          33403

You are correct Jerry. I was upset at what I saw and have to realize most people aren't fussy. I spent an hour waxing the machine and frame to remove soil and will wait on the touch up. I planned on doing a total touch up this winter anyhow, the mower deck was knocked up pretty badly when they delivered it due to carelessness. Just another blow for customer service as far as I am concerned. ....

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Art White
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2001-11-26          33424

Cutter I as a dealer feel bad for you. I have different people who work for me that work on different type jobs. They are very good in there areas. Unfortunately they don't always get scheduled to the right jobs. I have had the same type problem you have discussed here and it is an imbarrassment for me. But we do correct the problem as soon as we become aware of it. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-26          33446

Art you wouldn't believe what I was told today. My assumption was correct, the mechanic loosened the loader frame bolts and tried to align the holes in that fashion, per the factory rep...Mind you I love this tractor and this is really the only fly in the oinkment. The dealer is doing the best he can, his only fault is being unfamiliar with a new product line. According to him, the Kubota rep. said they have had this problem before and it is caused by loader frame adjustment, the welds are done in a jig so nothing could be wrong. I explained that the dog cradle next to the pin hole on one side is VISIBLY out of alignment and that the pin will not go in the hole when the loader is seated against it, as per the Kubota user's manual. I explained this happens when installing or removing the loader with the front wheels slightly lifted to apply pressure to the frame, allowing removal or placement of the pins per the Kubota manual's instructions. He claims the rep. says to toss the manual, the wheels are not to be lifted when performing this task. Just lower the bucket to the floor and try and work the pins out, that is as good as it gets (factory rep speaking) . I know I can fix this problem with a chisel and my own welder in an hour, but now I have a bone to pick with this rep. I can't believe someone representing a major company can be so ignorant of his own products. An appointment has been made to meet with me at my home next month, so I will live with it in the mean time. Sometimes it's the principle of the thing! One question Art, will the loader come off with my Curtis Plow blade mounted or should I leave the bucket on until after the demonstration? I'm a bit nervous with snow around the corner not to have it ready to go. Thanks Art. ....

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Art White
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2001-11-27          33459

How does your Curtis blade mount? If it's to the tractor frame don't worry about it. My first choice would be to try another frame piece from a Kubota loader. I just delvered one myself on Wednesday of last week, it included a loader and front snowblower and broom package. When dimounting the loader with the customer we removed all pins without the front of the tractor being off the ground and without any tools. To install the the subframe for the snowblower/broom we didn't have it supported as in the manual and I did use a block of wood to drive the main pin in but we knew we were not following the manual and it still went together quickly. Less than 5 minutes from loader to snowblower. I don't care what your rep from Kubota says, people make mistakes, it is tough when dealers take on new lines or are just not used to working with them. Our Kubota rep is light and full of jokes and we are old freinds from 20 plus years back, but every now and then we have to bring it back to the basic's. If something isn't right fix the problem, it might not be biting your nose but find it and deal with it as fast as you can and move on to a positive day. ....

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cutter
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2001-11-27          33470

Art it is a Curtis Loader Blade. It mounts directly on the Kubota arms and I don't think it will interfere with loader removal. The only difference is that the bucket will not be in place. The problem I am having is the mating of the loader arms with the tractor frame uprights, the pin on one side will not line up due to an incorrectly positioned stop on the top of the frame. It will be fixed, if the factory won't recognize the problem, I can do it myself. Like I said before it is now more of the principle than the actual repair. Thanks Art. ....

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Art White
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2001-11-27          33475

Ah, Cutter, have you tried removing the loader with the bucket on? I have doubts as to the height that the blade mountings are at on the blade versus the bucket. This might be causing the trouble? It could definitely be the problem if the blade was angled when you went to remove or install the loader this way. I know that your frustrations are high, I'm not there looking at the situation I'm just looking for reasons. We have had a couple of bad frame pieces but they never made it out of the shop. The frustration you are having with this is what we go thru with many after-market loaders which is why I perfer to sell the same make as the tractor. For the troubles we run into like this it sure does make our world get busy! ....

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cutter
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2001-11-27          33477

Everything on my machine is Kubota, front back and belly. The Curtis plow was new last year and I had it re-welded to fit the Kubota when I traded. The blade has not been mounted on the tractor's loader frame except when it was being welded up. The bucket is still in place and I was curious as to the effect of removing the loader arms with the Curtis Blade in place as opposed to the Kubota bucket. I really don't think it will matter. I know where the problem lies, it is plainly visible and easily fixed. The loader mounting upright has an improperly positioned stop welded behind the left side upper pin holes. It is the one where the dogs or "busses" rest during installation or removal of the loader. The pins slide through the uprights, into the loader mounts and secure the loader to the tractor. In this case, the left side is welded too far to the rear by .050, allowing the loader to travel to the rear of the support beyond the mating holes for the pin. Hence, the pin will not pass through the holes without first securing the right side with the loader seated per owners manual, then reaching across from the left side, you must manipulate the loader control while trying to line up the holes for insertion or removal. A very cumbersome and potententially dangerous operation. ....

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