What is Position Control?: Tractor Implements  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review What is Position Control?: Tractor Implements -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 03-22-2002, 09:08 Post: 36605
NHnewt
2002-03-22 09:08:00
Post: 36605
 What is Position Control?

Can someone help me out with this. I saw a post that made reference to the B2410 having position control while the B7500 does not. What is position control and how is it usefull?

Thanks.






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 03-22-2002, 10:09 Post: 36608
Bird Senter

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 What is Position Control?

Position control? I'll see if I can give you an explanation that makes sense (I've had a B7100 without it and a B2710 with it).

Without position control, the lever is centered and when you raise or lower the 3-point by moving the lever forward or backwards, it continues in an up or down movement until you center the lever again. The distance you move the lever may affect the speed with which it raises or lowers, but not where it stops. So you have to just go by visually watching to stop it where you want it.

With position control, the slot for the lever is usually numbered (1 to 8 in my case), with 1 being all the way down and 8 being all the way up. If you want to lower it to 4, move the lever there, the hitch stops at that point and the lever stays where you left it. It's much easier to make small adjustments in the height of the hitch, and if you raise it, it's much easier to lower it back to the same height again.

In other words, position control is a VERY NICE feature and I really like it, but it's not absolutely necessary.






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 03-22-2002, 10:30 Post: 36609
NHnewt
2002-03-22 00:00:00
Post: 36609
 What is Position Control?

thanks Bird, I can see why it would be a nice feature. This is one more reason why I may go with the B2410 over the B7500!






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 03-22-2002, 12:23 Post: 36611
Dan Bessette



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 What is Position Control?

In regards to position control, Bird you mentioned that the 3ph should stay where you leave the lever. I have a JD 4600 with position control. The other day I had a post hole digger on the machine. I had raised it and was off the tractor cleaning out one of my newly created holes when I noticed the hitch reposition itself. I watched more closely and every few minutes the weight of the digger was making the hitch drop far enough to engage the positioner. Is this a problem or normal operation? The tractor was running by the way.






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 03-22-2002, 12:52 Post: 36613
Bird Senter

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 What is Position Control?

Dan, I might ought to leave this question to a better mechanic than I am, but for a personal opinion, sounds to me like something (3-point hitch cylinder)is slowly leaking down OR the valve is letting it leak down. Won't it do the same thing with other implements (at least those of comparable weight) left raised on the 3-point?






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 03-22-2002, 13:08 Post: 36617
Dan Bessette



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 What is Position Control?

I'm not sure about other implements as the only thing I have is the digger. The only other rear attachment I have is a frame mount backhoe.






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 03-22-2002, 13:29 Post: 36618
Rubintropfen
2002-03-22 00:00:00
Post: 36618
 What is Position Control?

Some lift adjustment is normal with position control. There is a feedback mechanism that tries to bleed and/or add fluid as required to hold the set position. Excessive adjustment means something is leaking down too much. The old rule of thumb is that if it takes more than 10-15 minutes for a raised implement to reach the ground when you shut off the engine then the lift is working "well enough".






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 03-22-2002, 16:03 Post: 36621
Stan



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 What is Position Control?

I'll ask the next logical question in the series - what is DRAFT CONTROL. I assume it is the next step up, but what is it and how does it work?






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 03-22-2002, 17:12 Post: 36627
Bird Senter

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 What is Position Control?

Stan, I've never even used a tractor with draft control, but have a farmer neighbor who has it on his big John Deere tractors. It "senses" when the load gets hard to pull (pulling plows through the ground) and raises the implement to lighten the load. If the load gets too easy to pull, then it lowers the implement deeper into the ground. From what I hear, it's great for serious tillage, although it seems to me that you'd be plowing some parts of a field more deeply than other parts, and that doesn't sound all that great to me. I've also heard that some "sense" the load through pressure on the top link and that some sense it through a loss of rpm. So now, someone who knows more tell me and Stan both more about it.






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 03-22-2002, 21:15 Post: 36631
ROB IN MASS.
2002-03-22 00:00:00
Post: 36631
 What is Position Control?

Guys I have been reading the posts & hope I can help.I have a 1988 John Deer 1050 with 36 hp. considered a compact by all standards. Maybe at the higher end but a compact.The machine does have draft sensing. I will give you the verbage as it reads out of my owners manual. JD can word it better than me anyways, so here goes!

USING DRAFT CONTROL
Rockshaft is equipted with a draft control system. rockshaft raises automatically as load increases. Draft control lever regulates amount of load required before hitch responds. With lever placed fully down there is no draftsensing.

(A). USING POSITION CONTROL
When draftsensing lever is pushed back, rockshaft "holds" a constant position regardless of load. Use "position contol" when you do not want rock shft to to adjust automatically to draft load; as for implements operating on guage wheels.


(B). USING DRAFT CONTROL
When draft sensing lever is pulled forward Rockshaft senses draft load and automatically raises and lowers to maintain a "constant" depth. Use "draft control" in tillage work to keep depth of implement fairly constant: It transfers weight to rear wheels for improved traction.

POSITIONING CENTER LINK

For light draft loads, install center link in lower hole of center link bracket. In this position, less draft load change is required for automatic sensing.

for heavy draft loads, install center link in upper hole. In this position, more change in draft load is required for aotomatic sencing.
__________________________________________________________
Ok thats the way JD printed it in my manual. please note that this draft lever they spoke of is seperate from the
other two controls that operate the rockshaft, that operates the three point hitch. The other two controls on the machine is a valve that regulates the speed or rate of drop for the rockshaft/3ph. And obviously the last contol is the rock shaft lever itself. so, this may help clear the air a bit I hope! now mabey I will throw in my own verbage.
The way I see it is, in addition to what the manual says there is a semi crude but visually good way of showing what the tractor does going over uneven ground pictured in the manual. The picture shows the tractor using draft control both over even and uneven ground. The picture showing the tractor going over uneven ground in posion control mode, depicts the tractor implement not removing enough material as the tractor just starts to go down grade. And just the oposite, too much material removed just as the tactor start to go up hill. Keep in mind it would eventually go to correct depth if the up hiil / down hill grade continued long enough because both tractor and implemnt would be folliwing the same straight line up or down hill. It is these more abrupt quick changes in grade ie: smaller irregularities that if it is in between the tractor and the implement, if you could picture a tractor with implement attatched, ballanced on a mound of dirt, the tractor pointing downward on the left of the mound. and the attatched implement travelling up hill on the right, with the peak of the mound in between the tractor and implement you can see that the mound of dirt will be torn off on one side and the other side will be under cut. sooooo! after all this,you can see that in a sense no pun intended, the draft contol works much like a cars shock absorber. Wheels of good luxery car bouncing up an down over railroad tracks but car and ocupants staying at same level. this is much like our situation, but in our case we want our hydrolic rockshaft to go up and down with the ground changes and dial that change into the height of the implement vrs: height/angle of the tactor. now as if we all are not totaly confused including myself just kidding, all this daft sensig is not needed if you are using gauge wheels because there is another sense point being used to sort of do what the draft sensing is doing I hope that I did not confuse any one. in short draft sensing can be very usefull but not absolutely needed.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Tractor Implements Forum

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Bird Senter 3 | Dan Bessette 2 | JimTN 1 | NHnewt 2 | Rob in Mass 1 | ROB IN MASS. 1 | Rubintropfen 1 | Stan 1 | TomG 3 |




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