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 03-07-2001, 21:33 Post: 25179
Jim Youtz



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

I'm going to fire up my welder this weekend and build a 3 point hitch mount carryall. I'd like to design it to also serve as a light duty forklift also to lift pallets and such occasionally. I measured a King Kutter brand carryall and the forks are made out of angle iron and set 26" apart. I am thinking that 1/4" thick-walled tubing would work better for the fork use. I'm planning to make the hitch portion the standard 26" between pins, but for forklift use that seems too narrow to me. Would 36" between forks work okay for wood pallets? Does anyone have one of these who can measure it? I would greatly appreciate this.






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 03-08-2001, 07:04 Post: 25186
TomG

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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

Jim: Dang, my 3ph forks are tarped and buried under 2' of snow or I'd take a picture. However, from memory, the carriage on mine is built from box beam. The carriage is two telescoping rectangular sections. The stationary section has the top and lower link mounts and is as wide as possible. The lower link arms have to be spread almost to their limits to mount the forks. I think it's good for the carriage to be as wide as possible. The lifting section of the carriage rides on rubber rollers on the front of the stationary section. The forks mount on the backrest portion of the lifting carriage. The backrest is wider than the carriage and contains a heavy round bar at the bottom. The round bar is much longer than the carriage width, which allows the fork width to be adjusted. The fork width almost has to be adjustable if the forks are to be used for pallets, since the notches aren't standard widths. I'm not sure, but I think the forks can be adjusted at least 4' apart. The forks themselves are hinged, which is really handy for sliding them on the ground to get under pallets. Carriage tilt is provided by a hydraulic top-link. Well, I guess this isn't 1000 words, so I guess a picture would 10 times as good, but I hope the words help some.






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 03-08-2001, 08:31 Post: 25193
Murf

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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

Jim the short answer is economics, King Kutter are trying to build something to be retailed at a very low price, therefore manufacturing costs must be rock bottom also. This is not necessarily a bad thing, I know of many people who have and regularly use a similar light duty thing, they work very well, for the purpose intended, over-load them and forget it. The angle iron is for two reasons, weight and cost, steel is priced by the pound, 1/4" (0.250" to us engineer types) wall square tubing that is say 2" x 2" has exactly twice as much material as a similar sized peice of angle, therefor it will be twice the price also. Again, in trying to minimize cost, they make the entire unit only the width of the 3pth, thereby minimizing the amount of steel and cost. No doubt the tubing version will be much stronger, it will also be much heavier so do your self a favour, before you shut off the welder, make some 'landing legs' for this beast so you won't have to pick it up to mount it on the 3pth. Generally speaking I think you will find that a 'standard' pallet will be about 36" x 48" with the forks going in on the 48" side, so that 2 across fill a trailer of 8' in (inside) width. And of course the wider you make it the more stable it will be. Best of luck.






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 03-08-2001, 11:01 Post: 25204
kay



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

TomG Your 3 pt forks sound great and very handy. Worth a wait for the spring thaw for a picture or two. Are they custom made or commercially available? I thought about asking you to go out with a shovel and remove the 2 feet of snow, but had secondary, more humane, thoughts. Anxious to hear more about it.






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 03-08-2001, 11:32 Post: 25206
Ted Kennedy



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

Jim, Murph has provided you with some food for thought and I would like to expand upon this. I'm a manufacturing engineer in the aerospace industry, we don't use steel much in airframes, but we use it in our tooling and fixtures. I looked at the King Kutter design and it gives me pause for thought. Their design is a deceptively simple design that could get someone into danger if they are inexperienced and try to depart from it. As an engineer, I would never have done it that way, nor would Mil-Spec's, FAA, or OSHA allowed me to. Not for our industry and probably not for my own use. The use of simple angle iron (in this case of unknown, to us, ASTM/ASE strength) as a cantilevered beam may/may not have a uniformly supported load rating of 1 kip (1000lbs to a kip) for the exact length of the beam (also unknown to me), when unbraced and welded to a vertical member. Your design had better be at least as good as King Kutter's. The point at which the beam is welded (pivot point in this case), and what kind of weld and weldable area that your beam offers, is also as critical as the moment (length) and material that you'll be using for the beam. You mentioned using rectangular tubing so I looked up the uniformly loaded rating for laterally supported beams of ASTM A36 steel (a good baseline), of various size rectangular structural tubing, of various wall thicknesses, of lenngths in excess of four feet, plugged the figure(s) into my computer using aircraft welding standards, and came up with a disaster waiting to happen. With the area available for welding the tube (beam) to your carriage, there exists a probability of failure with tip supported (non-uniformly supported)loads in excess of 1600lbs. I caution you, if you aren't capable of doing your own structural analysis, please have someone do it for you before you procede, and never, ever, stick something valuable under any suspended load. I'm not saying your idea is dumb or without merit, you've got a nice project, you can probably do it, and it should turn out well. Just check things out well in advance if you haven't already. Good Luck.






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 03-08-2001, 12:47 Post: 25213
Bruce Carlston



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

I had a carryall made locally for my Yanmar 1610D and use it on my Yanmar 2620D also. I had it made 26" wide and 30" high. The guy used 2"x3" angle iron. I have minor problems with it, when the 3 pt is lifted all the way up the carryall strikes the fenders. Another issue I have is that the nature of the 3 pt hitch is such that the higher you lift something the larger the angle it's forks tip, that makes stuff you have on a pallet roll/slide toward the tractor. On my smaller tractor I also had trouble with the carryall frame rubbing on the tires, so measure the distance between your tires before making it much wider. The only problem with making the forks from pipe is that it might be a little trickier to get into a pallet. It is a handy device, but it isn't a forklift.






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 03-08-2001, 13:59 Post: 25214
Dave M



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

FYI - Even King Kutter says their carry-all is not for pallets. You are expected to deck the carry-all with a lumber platform. They make a pallet mover from rectangular steel tubing that they claim will support 2000 lbs. 24" out from the 3 point frame.






Link:   King Kutter Pallet Mover 

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 03-08-2001, 18:05 Post: 25224
Roger L.



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

I go along with Dave on this. If it is the same rear mount that I am thinking of, it never was intended to work as a fork lift, only as a lightweight platform to be covered with plywood. Forklift blades are entirely different....super high strength steel....very expensive. I made sort of a light duty device like you are thinking of by finding an old "hand truck" -used for moving pallets around a warehouse- and welding a three point hitch to the front of it. The blades on it are high strength roll-formed steel, 2" deep and six inches wide. I still don't trust it too far, as it was never intended to support a cantilevered load. OK, I just measured it. The blades are 20 1/2 inches from center to center and 4 feet long. Shaky darn thing when loaded....
Still, making things with the welder is half the fun of tractors. If you are going to give it a shot just be careful. Or drop me a sketch and I'll run the numbers and give you some ballpark figures.






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 03-08-2001, 23:54 Post: 25236
Jim Youtz



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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

Wow, lots of good responses and info. Thanks alot for the engineering tips. Now I have more thinking to do. Tomorrow, I'll take a trip to a local steel fabrication shop to get the steel and talk with the shop people. What I'm trying to build is really more of a carryall than a forklift, but I would like to ocassionally use it for light-duty pallet lifting (500-750 lbs. of bricks, hay, ect...). My tractor's 3 point lift capacity is only 930 pounds, so I can't really overdo it with this thing anyway. Loads will be carried close to the ground, so any failures should not be too much of a disaster. But I will keep these points in mind, and if we can't come up with anything at the fabrication shop, I will take you up on your offer of design help Roger. I'll keep you all posted on this. What a really want is a detachable forklift for my loader, but I can't afford this right now. I'll build this thing for say $60 worth of material, use it to get this summer's chores done, and then get that loader mounted unit someday.






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 03-09-2001, 06:04 Post: 25239
TomG

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 making a 3 point carryall/fork, need help

Kay: The forks are made by WIFO. My dealer came up with them, and they came with no literature, so WIFO is probably a large welding shop. They are a full-fledged forklift type (with a side-shift option available that I didn't get). The lift is chain driven from a long cylinder and has a max height of 5.5', not including any lift from the 3ph. I didn't describe the telescoping carriage quite right, and it probably isn't wise for my to try. It is two rectangular sections--a stationary and a lifting section that telescope. It's worth noting that the bottom of the lifting section is free to swing out when the carriage is tilted forward (or when trying to disengage dragging forks from under a pallet). In addition, the forks are hinged so they can swing up. The combination of the swing carriage and hinged forks makes the unit sort of 'self-leveling' when taking pallets on and off the forks. Actually, it's a little tricky getting a pallet on and off when the tractor and the pallet are on uneven ground. The whole unit is heavy duty and weights over 600 lbs. I realize that Jim's interests are more modest, but I think this type of unit is what is actually needed for fairly serious pallet and other lifting work. I don't think I'd ever contemplate trying to lift a load that would break it, and I know that's a good idea to pay attention to the engineering issues raised here. On the other hand, the forks weren't cheap ($2000+ CAN), but they were just a little more than a loader forklift attachment. The advantage is that they work like a true forklift (lift in a true vertical). It is just about my favourite implement, and the only bad thing I can say is that it's difficult and somewhat dangerous to mount--they fold flat and are probably worse than post-hole augers to mount. It pretty much lives on my 3ph. Maybe because it's a pain to take on and off, but also because it's very useful. I can plan my other work, but I never know when I'm going to deal with something big and heavy. I didnít like all the shaky lifting things I was doing with my loader bucket. Happy you didnít ask for a picture Ďcause Iím just getting over the flu.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Tractor Implements Forum

Thread 25179 Filter by Poster:
Bird Senter 4 | Bruce Carlston 1 | Bruce Pirger 1 | Craig Dashner 1 | Dave M 1 | JeffM 2 | Jim Youtz 3 | kay 1 | Murf 1 | Roger L. 1 | Ted Kennedy 2 | TomG 5 |




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