RE: Wont Start: Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild  -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum and Review RE: Wont Start: Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild -- Tractor Maintenance Discussion Forum

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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild Forum

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 07-03-2001, 05:49 Post: 29781
TomG

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 RE: Wont Start

RE: Wonít start. There is some trouble with posts that contain single quotes ( Ď ) in the subject line. Iím unable to post a response, so Iíll reply as a new post.Diesels have to spin fast in order to start. A battery in poor condition or corroded terminals and ground cable terminals may not allow the starter to spin the starter motor fast enough. I'd get a battery hydrometer and check the battery capacity and also clean the battery and starter terminals. The engine end of the ground cable shouldn't be neglected. Occasionally you hear of somebody replacing a ground cable with an automotive 'cheapie' from a box store. Many aren't heavy enough gauge for diesels and will give starting problems. The decompression lever lets the starter spin the engine faster. However, the lower compression doesn't produce as much heat. One technique is to pre-heat with glow plugs. Turn over the starter with the decompression pulled and then push it in after a moment. The idea is to get the engine turning fast and then use the engine inertia to keep it spinning after the compression is back on.






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 07-03-2001, 06:35 Post: 29782
BillBass



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 RE: Wont Start

How old is your battery? Most likely it is either a weak battery or a bad connection. If you have checked all your battery cable connections (not just the battery end, but the other ends also) and it still does not turn over well, take your battery in to a parts store and have it checked. You do not have to go to a tractor store. Auto parts stores such as NAPA have replacement batterys and can check your old one. If the battery checks good, then it may be a starter problem.






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 07-03-2001, 10:13 Post: 29789
FarmerWannabe



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 RE: Wont Start

Thank you for the information. Dont know the age of the battery since it is used (although it doesnt look too old). I did clean off the posts this winter which did seem to help for colder weather starts. Since I am thinking about a new battery anyway it makes sense to take the old one in to get tested. Its ironic that my car battery has decided to act up as well!
Does the low water signal any problem?
I will let you know what I find out. Great tractor otherwise.






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 07-03-2001, 11:31 Post: 29792
mlmartin



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 RE: Wont Start

Low water in a battery can indicate overcharging. That doesn't seem to be the problem you are experiencing. -- Matthew






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 07-03-2001, 12:31 Post: 29795
Peters

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 RE: Wont Start

Low water can indicate a problem if it is only in one cell. If all are down it may ony indicate the age or maintenance of the battery. We now have mantainance free batteries but the only lead acid batteries that do not require water are value regulated batteries. Normal seal batteries actually only reduce the rate of evaporation. A normal battery with low acid indicates age or abuse.
Valve regulated batteries are sold as car batteries primarily for restorations that do not get started very often. I do not know how they would fair in a tractor except that they would be less likely to short out (no mud)and would probably take more abuse.
The hardest thing on a battery is a complete discharge. This will reduce battery life. The valve regulated batteries have lower self discharge rates and better resistance to low charge levels.
Peters






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 07-04-2001, 07:43 Post: 29816
TomG

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 RE: Wont Start

I replaced my battery last fall with an automotive type. The old battery was dead, I charged it for about an hour @ 30 amps (It took about 15 minutes to show any charge rate, which is normal for many fully-discharged batteries). I then switched to a 1-amp charger for 48 hours (A battery won't fully charge if the charge rate remains high). After charging, I checked battery capacity with a cheap hydrometer. The first three cells were shot and I didn't bother checking the rest. In selecting a battery that isn't a factory replacement, both the amp-hour and the cold-cranking amp (CCA) ratings are important. Diesel starters pull draw a lot of current, and battery has to be able to deliver adequate amps (that's the CCA rating). A repair manual should give starter motor amps specs. I believe that some maintenance-free batteries have relatively low CCA's for their size. It may take some looking to find a maintenance free battery the right size for the battery compartment that has a high enough CCA rating. Batteries with terminals in the centre of the case, rather than on an edge, probably work best for most tractors, and that could take some more looking, There was a discussion about batteries here awhile back. Among other things, the location of the vents is important. It's possible for acid fumes or leakage to ruin the radiator on many tractors. A marine or aircraft type battery is probably best. However, I selected a battery with centre terminals and fill caps. The vents are in the fills caps and face away from the radiator. The NH battery I removed also had vents in the fill-caps, so I don't believe I'm taking much of a risk in using this particular automotive battery.






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 07-04-2001, 12:04 Post: 29819
Peters

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 RE: Wont Start

Many aircraft have gone to value regulated Pb acid batteries to reduce the risk of acid leakage.
At present there are very few Pb acid battery manufactures in the US. Johnson Control, Dekka (Penn Manufacturing), Johnson controls, Exide, Delco and GNB produce 99% of the batteries. Batteries are branded with the numberous names that distribute batteries. Some like Sears or Interstate switch manufactures to achieve the better price, for them.
The price of a battery has stayed constant since the 70's. Some of this is due to the automation, recycling and new battery separators with has reduce costs, but some is due to the reduction in thickness of the Pb plates, the thickness of the battery separator and the reduction in the amount of acid.
One needs a battery that has high cold cranking amps, is build to be low discharged (thicker separators) and is built to be bounce around.
On the short side, Dekka is the OEM battery for 90% the large equipment manufactures and road trucks. They tend to be conservative in their manufacturing and use thicker battery separators.
The other suggestion is the use of a valve regulated Pb acid (VRLA) battery. These are better for all these application and have no acid leakage. The rolled batteries have high CCAs, these are the batteries used in the small portable jump start packs. They are also used on the electric wheel chairs. On the down side the VLRA batteries are expensive.
As many of the tractors are not used too often the low discharge rate maybe something that would appeal to the average compact tractor owner.
Peters






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 07-05-2001, 06:03 Post: 29823
TomG

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 RE: Wont Start

Peters: Good info--I didn't know the details of battery manufacturing. I suspect that many batteries available from 'box stores' are designed 'down' since most people drive only on pavement. It might be good if some manufacturer made an off-road battery. However for all I know, more expensive batteries may tend be more rugged in addition to what ever else they do. I do know that ruggedness is an issue. A locally famous road, which is about 25 miles of severe washboard, finished off the battery in my 1/2 ton. My wife wasn't happy about me going fast enough to smooth out the washboard so I just took the pounding. A couple of days later, I tried to start the truck. The battery was dead and wouldn't charge. The new battery didn't come from a box store. Next time I make the trip, I'll use of bunch of old logging roads that get most of the way there. The unmaintained logging roads are better than the township road, which takes a direct, but unfortunate, route.






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 07-05-2001, 10:54 Post: 29833
Peters

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 RE: Wont Start

Glad the info is of use. I worked for a battery separator manufacturer, one of two in the world and have a couple of patents on separator tech.
In general the automotive OEM batteries ie. Delco, Ford, Chrysler tend to be better constructed than the Walmart special. They must make it through the first 36 months. The after market batteries tend to reduce the quality, separator thickness and plate weight.
The VRLA battery would be better for the rough road. I have seen the after market avertised as a truck battery. Probably just the same quality as a regular OEM battery.






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 07-05-2001, 12:57 Post: 29838
Rob Munach



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 RE: Wont Start

I recently purchased a Champion Vortex battery for my 790. It is my understanding that it contains 6 cells of fiberglass mats rolled into cylinders that act as a sponge to keep the acid absorbed. As such, it can be used in any position or dropped and broken without the acid leaking out. It was expensive ($120), but it seems to have fixed my failing battery problem.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild Forum

Thread 29781 Filter by Poster:
BillBass 1 | FarmerWannabe 2 | keoke 2 | mlmartin 1 | Murf 1 | Peters 4 | Rob Munach 1 | TomG 6 |




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