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T-BoneWalker
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3 upstate ny
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2003-09-12          63735

I have gravel driveways that have a good bit of slope up from the house and barn to the road. Last winter, after the huge amount of snow we had, I started thinking about setting myself up with a garden tractor and snowblower, with a soft cab. I've looked at a 10 year old, 25hp, shaft drive, Troy-Bilt, with 400 hrs with this set up, that the dealer is asking $3,000 We've had someone plow us out for the last 7 years, but the snowbanks filled with my gravel, and the wear and tear on a retaining wall have made me rethink the problem. Can this combo handle the job? Any suggestions? I'm new at this. Thanks.

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Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 347 New York
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2003-09-12          63736

T-Bone,

You have a lot of options for your target price of $3000.
I know you can find a used garden tractor with a thrower
for most likely a lot less. There are better brands than Troy built that sell for less, and since the Troy is 10 years already. Look on ebay for either Cub or John deere or Kubota and you see it all the time especially now that winter is near. In general garden tractors handle throwers very well, once set up correctly (chains, weights)
The achilies heel with a thrower is of course gravel. The trick is either have a base over the gravel of snow. Or to have the shoes high enough to miss digging up the gravel.
Others will add to this with advice, since I dont have gravel to contend with

Hope this helps
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-09-13          63748

I have several concerns that came to mind. You say it is up hill, how much? The other thing that came to mind was the word driveways, how much driveway do you have? ....

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mainiak1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 22 Maine
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2003-09-13          63779

I live in Maine we have our share of snow. I have a 330'
drive way with turn around with moderate slope. I use a 520H Wheel Horse 46" blower wheel weights and 90lbs of weights on back. I also have a paved drive and it works great. I would be concerned if you had to leave more than 3" of snow on driveway because of the small tires on the front. I have a cab for this also very pleased with this setup.

Mainiak1 ....

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2003-09-13          63781

Using a two wheel drive garden tractor with a blade on a sloped driveway is tough, a blower works much much better as it requires much less traction.

Also important is whether your equipment is starting at the top or the bottom of the hill, with starting at the top being the preferable approach.

One our neighbors lives on a hill with a 1/4 mile drive with three or 4 switch backs. He has a two whl drive gas powered Tractor, it is a weird looking very big Garden tractor kind of the size of a Kubota BX but without the quality. He had a real problem with the front blower until he had a welding shop make a steel plate on the back that he attaches a sand spreader and also stacks four bags of sand + 2 bags in the sander for about 300 pounds on the rear.

With that added weight he has no problems.

I am sure there will be times when you say "hmm so how much is a 4WD tractor?"

Dennis
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boerence
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1 Wyoming, Minnesota
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2003-11-05          68058

T-bone: I used to have a wheelhorse 516H (hydro) with a front blower, wheel weights and chains. I have a flat 700 foot long driveway and snow as much as 2 feet deep was no problem. I think any good hydrostatic garden tractor appropriately outfitted with chains and wheel weights should do the job.
My blower was a single stage, which really moved the deep snow and threw it 30 feet or so, but light snow was really a pain in the butt because it would shoot quite a bit of fine powder out the front. I would get a two-stage blower. ....

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chuckles
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 88 Eastern PA
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2003-11-05          68064

boerence,

I have a Wheelhorse C125 with the gear trans and the single stage Wheelhorse Front blower. I have been using this set up for 6 years on 16000 sq feet of drive (1000 feet long plus 75 x 100 parking lot).

It has done it but it ain't easy or fun. Yes it will chuck snow 30 feet if it is powder, and NO it will not do 24 inches of snow in one pass. It will take many hours at 3 to 5 inches max at a time to clear it with this set up.

And there are many occasions where I get stuck with the two wheel drive, and or the blower gets clogged from slush.

I highy recommend someone try a TWO stage blower never buy a one stage. I have wheel weights and chains, and I think 4wd has got to be the way to go.

If you want or only can spend $3K I would look at the Honda that is for sale and is pictured at the right side bar on this page, but I think a BX or 2210 deere would be the ticket.

boerence, take look at my pix number 6 and let me know if they make another single stage than I have, or if you have the same one. The screw is about 10" high on mine.

....

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Ducati996
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 347 New York
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2003-11-05          68067

chuckles,

Some older machines just do a better job than others. My Older Cub 125 has a 42" , with chains and wheel weights. For 34 years it has handled every type of snow imaginable.
The larger extreme snow fall amounts required multiple passes of course. But it never failed overall...2 ft heights
were not a problem as well. Yes the snow came over the top of the blower, but that wasnt a problem...I expect the same performance from my new Cub 3204..well actually better!!

Duc
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-11-05          68086

Duc, watch that you don't hit your neighbors house with the 3204 and blower. Hope you got the rear counter weight with it. It does make a difference on traction. ....

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Ducati996
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Posts: 347 New York
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2003-11-05          68095

Hi Art,

hehehe.. I will most likely be doing their driveway as well, I'm a nice neighbor!! I have the wheel weights (75lbs each)and chains..do I need more? I do have suit case weights available (from my JD4100) so I just need the rear mount bracket...but my smaller 125 didnt need anymore than wheel weights & chains...which is more ideal wheel weights or rear suitcase? ...will try for pictures soon !! thanks again Art ....

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Art White
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2003-11-06          68119

There is a big difference in the weight between the single stage 42" and the two stage 45". One I know I still can pick up and put on a truck and the other I need help!!! If you can put the rear weights on it would help the tractor a lot not that the wheel weights aren't good but we are talking about a slippery time of the year. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-11-06          68125

Chuckles, are you sure you have a single stage blower, i zoomed in on your picture # 6 and it sure looks like theres an auger going aside to side cross the opening.

That and square cased single stage blowers are VERY rare, most of them are V-shaped since there is no cross-feed auger to deliver snow to the impeller.

A single stage blower has only a fan, or a crosswise spindle with a (usually) rubber paddle which just flips the snow out of the way, like the little Honda blowers do.

Best of luck. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-06          68158

Hi Art,

I finally got everything together and attached regarding Blower, Hydro lift, weights (wheel and suitcase),and chains...and good news on the chains they fit with the 4 ply tires I got earlier. Its a tight fit no doubt but the chains wont hit. They even have the extra spike for ice and still clear (goodbye blacktop however) The spike chains werent my first choice, but I will be careful with them, otherwise I will see China !! Will post pictures over the weekend...

Duc ....

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Art White
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2003-11-06          68163

Spinning doesn't count as you aren't supposed to. Power and control, right on the edge and you will go farther, cost less doing it, and not be broke down. ....

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Ducati996
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Posts: 347 New York
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2003-11-07          68190

Your right Art, I will probably have more traction because of the weights(wheel & Suitcase) and the chains (with the spikes) than my JD 4100 in 4wd. It looks that good!!
I'm really impressed on the size and build of the system.
It surpassed all my expectations, because I never saw this setup upclose before until it was on my machine...

Ducati996 ....

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Art White
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2003-11-07          68191

I do like to boast of things I've seen in the past but I won't count on it out pulling the 4100. If on Blacktop you might find it better to not run the chains for traction. Make sure you pick up a couple of extra shear pins for the augers just in case. They are a special bolt. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-07          68242

Your right it was an overstatement!! the 4100 is in a different league..forgot the shear pins...

Thanks !!

Ducati ....

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chuckles
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Posts: 88 Eastern PA
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2003-11-08          68255

Duc,

I looked at your pix and bio, your property looks like the Utah salt flats, when I had property that even came close to that yes a garden tractor with even a blade was fine.

And from the looks of your pix you have a drive that 's pretty short, at least short compared to what I have.

That's why this site is so great with pix and bios you can see the perspective of the advisor, and we are better able to judge if the advisor's perspective matchs ours, before we take that advice and apply it.


....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-08          68259

Hi Chuckles,

No Doubt your driveway is longer, but I wouldnt come to any conclusions based on my experience related to driveway length..Your driveway with the right machine is not that difficult.

I have no doubt my 125 or 3204 Cub would not have an issue with it (no doubt it would take a few hours, but either machine will remove up to 2 feet at a time). The larger picture for me is relatives & neighbors (all very close by-driving distance on either tractor)..obligations with relatives, barter systems with neighbors..a few have driveways steeper than yours..

The reason I picked up my JD 4100 was because out the outstanding price I paid for it with only 6.5 hours on it.

The amount of work I have accomplished with it for me is incredible. I have 2 acres, and one acres was barely mowable. I almost removed every tree, and re-graded..I have a lot more to do, just to finish clearing before spring and re-planting. It paid for itself 10 fold already. I also have commerical intentions for it very soon...

Yes Long Island is a relative flat island but on the North shore(I'm located) its a little hilly. Yes PA is more hilly & more snow fall? for sure, and based on your property size, you have been undermachined for sometime. You should be using a CUT (Bx22,4110 or something similar) if not for the driveway, but your lawn at least...

If you have questions or need advice I would be happy to give it freely...dont fall into this trap "you dont know what your talking about, I have more property syndrome"

I dont give advice out in the areas I dont know anything about. Larger parcels bring bigger needs, and when it gets to those areas, I'm silent and learning.


Good Luck either way,

Ducati996 ....

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chuckles
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Posts: 88 Eastern PA
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2003-11-08          68273

Hi Ducati,

I am sorry if you took my comment about the "Salt flats" the wrong way, I did not mean disrespect to your knowledge. I was merely pointing out that the "perpective" that one is coming from is very relevant when listening to what someone is saying. Not as a disqualification, but rather as an enhancement so if my perspective is a match I may be more likely to be happy if I follow the same course.

I am sure you Cub does a great job.

When I was a teenager I lived in a small house on a half acre lot. After college I dated a girl who had a house on over an acre of grass, that at the time I viewed as a farm. I saw her house again after twenty years, and it blew my mind as to how small the yard and house looked to me now. I had spent many an hour bragging about how big her place was twenty years before. So over time, my perspective had changed radically.

When I had a small house and a 75 foot drive wow that was big.

Then when I had two acres and a 225 ft drive I talked about that alot.

Now I have this 4000 sq ft house and 5 acres and 16000 sq feet of driveway over 1000 feet long. And I say, is that really that big ? hmmmmh.... with 3 acres of lawn to mow... I seem much more uncertain now than I have ever been.

I am still asking questions, still trying to decide...

And still very appreciative of any and all assistance I have gotten from TractorPoint....

Thanks Ducati



....

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chuckles
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2003-11-08          68276

Murf,

I am glad it is not just me who doubts my perceptions!

I now have pix seven to confirm I am not losing my mind and do in fact have a Single stage blower, Wheelhorse makes both a single and a double, the single is the only one that fits mine.

The flattened section of the auger in the middle throws the snow out the shoot, the auger spins much faster than a 2 stage blower so that it can make up for not having fan.

This blower is happiest when the snow depth only comes up to the center of the auger. I can push it into greater depths so that it is well above auger. I can even do 24 inches of snow with this blower by using the manaul lift to hit the top 12 inches then back up and hit the bottom 12 inches but only doing one foot at a time. However, with a parking area about 75 feet wide and 100 feet long, I am still blowing snow onto driveway that I have to blow again so process lends itself to the "Not enough Hours in the Day" syndrome with 16000 sq feet to do.

So with the current configiuration I have to battle it 3 inches at a time if I can, and this takes about 1.5 to 2 hours per 3-4 inches of snowfall.
....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-08          68291

Hi Chuckles,
Thanks for clearing that up, wasnt a problem really...You do have a real large driveway however, and a huge parcel of land (very nice by the way)..a CUT would do wonders for you
overall. I would be curious as to why you machine is not performing better. It should handle more snow, so maybe something is slipping, not enough traction, engine losing power, wrong belt or pulley. Have you had it checked out??
Are you still looking at a new machine and which type?

Ducati996 ....

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chuckles
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2003-11-08          68295

Ducati,

I have had this Tractor for 20 years, I used a Blade on the tractor for 12 years. You are right to suggest looking into operating issues. But in this case everything is working perfectly, it is just simply to small for the job.

Your tip would have helped me this summer though, I was convinced that my mower deck blades were dull, or something was binding because the deck seemed to bog down, but what was causing it? I checked spindles, sharpened blades, changed belts, only to discover that one of the pully bearings was shot, I only discovered it when it finally failed.

Just to put it in perspective how big a driveway I have, if you have ever sealed a driveway by the bucket. I sealed part of my driveway and parking area this fall for the second time. I coverd less than a 1/4 of it and I used 26 5 gallon buckets, I still have the entire hill that I have a picture of in my album.

Eight years ago, using the blade was giving me too much whiplash from having to push back the snow banks on my then 225 foot relatively flat gravel drive. So I got a blower for the wheelhorse.

The dealer ordered a two stage that weighed a ton and as it turns out 5 hours and bruised knuckles and sore back later it "don't fit".

So back it goes, and he orders me the only one that fits, it is half the height of the two stage blower. Take a look a my PIC 7. The center of the auger is only 6" off the ground or less.

When I built my current "Mansion" I rented a house while it was built. The rental house was in one of those new developments where the houses are right on top of each other, and the lots are about ten feet wider than the house.

I felt pretty embarassed pulling a full size Garden Tractor out of the two car garage to do the 30 feet to the side walk but it sure beat shoveling. I also felt silly using it on the tiny lawn, but it took me 20 minutes while the guy across the street on the same size lot spent all day with a tiny electric push mower.

Once again a matter of perpective of what is within ones expectations.

My brother lives on one acre and I spoke to him about my buying a compact tractor, he is very direct and thinks that I am completely NUTS to even think of buying a compact Tractor, he has about a 125 foot drive 1/15 the size of mine. Just his perspective, he simply cannot see mine at all.
....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-08          68296

Chuckles,

Well dont listen to your brother !! (just kidding) people who are not really familiar with a CUT capabilites often say that. You have a real big piece of property and I cant imagine how long it takes you to mow it as well. Your driveway is a monster, and your machine is letting you down.
Does your brother want you to suffer? Does he have a solution? winters coming fast, I'm sure you dont want to deal with that driveway in snow country!! you can get one machine to do it all, with less money than you think. I posted new pictures of my 3204 (#14-17), a machine like this will do your driveway no problem ( It could be a Cub,Deere or Kubota Garden tractor)..5 acres of steep hilly lawn is where you have to double check if 4wd is needed..
What did you use on the lawn all this time? My driveway is 150 ft long, and I feel real good about myself not having to shovel it!! You might be too concerned about what others think you need, and its holding you back from fixing the problem with your machine...do whats best for you first :) now I sound like Dr Phil ( I cant stand him -)

Ducati996 ....

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chuckles
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2003-11-08          68299

Dr. Phil,

Nice pix of your Cub! Now that looks like a Nice Blower at least twice the height of my Wheelhorse single stage. Are those 2 or 4 chains looks like 2 link. I told a friend of mine to get the 4link on turf tires for his paved drive. What have you heard about the 2 links if that 's what they are?

When I had the house with only 2 acres and the 225 foot drive I had been cutting the lawn with a push mower and it took me up to five hours to do it.

It wasn't until co worker -- who grew up on a farm with tractors -- whom I had pummeled with my obsessive tractor questions over a Garden Tractor purchase, made me an offer.

He said, watch my dog while I am on vacation and I will loan you my JC Penny 42 inch garden tractor. Well one week I was sold, and I got the WheelHorse in 2 weeks.

I notice that you seem to like to collect stuff like bikes and tractors. I am somewhat the opposite. At one time or another I have done just about every conceivable automotive repair at least once. Yet I don't really have many tools, only the bare minimum!

I think this is what makes it so hard to go ahead with this.

I got a pretty good price on the B7510 and I may well just go with that. I posted the price on the Kubota Price board:

9,200 B7510 HSD
2,865 LA302 Loader
2,195 60" Mower
2,500 B2750A 50" blower

16,760

Maybe I will take the 60 month 3.99 finance option its only money. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-08          68301

You have chosen a machine that will handle everything with ease!! just wait until you use a FEL, and what can be done with it - its a different world after that!!

The diffrence between 2 & 4 link is spacing between links. 2 is closer together, so less spaces between chain links. The tire isnt contacting the ground, and its a smoother ride (less bumpy)...4 link is more bumpy!!

I hope things work out for you and Kubota offers 0% ( i hope its still avail) you will not regret the purchase- trust me no one does!!

Ducati999 ....

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DRankin
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2003-11-09          68318

I predict that when you tractor arrives, your brother will be over to borrow it before the month is out. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-11-10          68408

Mark is so right on this one...your biggest critic turns into your biggest cheerleader (when they need something done, that is)..

Duc ....

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Murf
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2003-11-10          68412

Especially when they are married to you .......


Enjoy, enjoy.

Best of luck. ....

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Murf
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2003-11-12          68552

Chuckles, somewhere along the way I missed your reply and picture regarding your existing blower.

I had completely forgotten about those little units. The performance of them can be dramatically improved very easily and with little expense, certainly a lot less than a new tractor.

Basically the problem is that the cross-feed auger brings snow into the impeller faster than those two little paddles can blow it away. The solution is to add two more paddles to the fan section in the center.

Make (or have made) two paddles the same size and shape as what is already there now and weld them in place 90 degrees away from the existing ones. I don't know why the manufacturers don't do this in the first place, the cost at the manufacturing stage would be peanuts and the difference in performance is night & day. The same thing applies to all blowers, a lot of two-stage units have only two or three fan blades instead of four.

Best of luck. ....

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chuckles
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2003-11-12          68556

Murf,

I think maybe that photo is tricking you.

The way that auger works is it draws the snow to the center and the surface in the photo acts like a snow scope and throws it out the shoot.

The surface in the photo you can see is damaged by gravel pummeling it. The other flat surface hits nothing because the screw only brings snow to the pummeled surface.

Welding anything to the center of the shaft will not increase output because it will decrease the volume that the shovel is handling, causing the auger to clog sooner.

This little blower is a champ at blowing snow it really heaves it 35 feet easily. However, as you can see in the picture the auger is very short so deep snow is an issue, most manufactureres indicaten that this blower is for light snows only. Certainly not good for really large drives like I have, unless you enjoy making clearing snow as your lifes work, and battling it during the storm as I have to now inch by inch.

....

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Murf
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2003-11-12          68577

Let me try this from a different angle.

You have two 'scoops' as you call them throwing snow up the chute. In your pic. # 7 the front of one is visible at the top, and the BACK of the other one is visible near the floor.

Your comment "Welding anything to the center of the shaft will not increase output because it will decrease the volume that the shovel is handling, causing the auger to clog sooner." is an error, IMO and based on all my experience.

Let me explain. The ENTIRE height of the cross-feed auger is able to bring snow into the center and to the 'scoops', but each scoop is only HALF the height of the auger feeding it, THAT is the problem.

By doubling the capacity of the 'scoops', to match the capacity of the cross-feed auger will INCREASE the efficiency not decrease it. This means it will clog LESS OFTEN not more.

Let me try an analogy to see if it makes it clearer, if you have water coming into a boat twice as fast as you can bail, you're in trouble, if you can pump it out twice as fast the problem is not nearly so bad.....

Best of luck. ....

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chuckles
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2003-11-12          68583

ummmmmmh sorry bout the one paddle, on further inspection of course you are correct! Sorry.

But I still think it won't make any difference to what I was saying.

I still do not see how adding another blade would make any difference. The paddles are at the terminus of the screw. It seems fairly obvious when you look at it that placing a steel plate infront of the place where the snow is brought by the screw would create a void that would simply be empty.

The auger and the paddle are one thing! On one axle rotating together at the same speed getting the snow from the screw channel. ....

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Murf
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2003-11-12          68584

It's an difficult concept to get your mind around I know.

Basically what I'm trying to say, based on lots of experience at this stuff, is the cross-feed auger on your blower is, and does I'm sure, feed snow into the 'scoops' faster than the 'scoops' can fire it up the chute and get rid of it.

In a perfectly balanced design, the snow should NEVER 'bunch up' in the center of the blower as you move forward. If it is then the situation I described above is happening, the snow is not being 'thrown' as fast as it is being 'collected'

Your comment about it being mounted on a single axle and everything moving together at the same speed is a fundemantal part of what I'm trying to explain.

In a two stage blower there is a big difference in the speed at which the cross-feed auger and the fan (or scoops as you called them) turn. The fan runs MUCH faster than the auger, you don't have this luxury. This leaves you with just one option to improve your blowers performance.

If you can't speed up the rate at which two 'scoops' throw the snow, then double the number of 'scoops' you have, this should, in theory at least, move twice as much snow.

If one scoop can throw say one cu. ft. / second of snow, then two will do two cu. ft. / second, and 4 will do 4 cu. ft. / second.

We add blades to regular two-stage units all the time, the difference in performance is unbelievable, adding little rubber 'wipers' to seal the gap between the impeller ('scoops') and the housing add that much more again to the performance, especially when you are dealing with heavy, wet, sloppy snow and slush.

Best of luck. ....

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Wildman1
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2003-12-11          70788

My wife almost passed out when I drove up with the 2210. A month later she wondered why we didn't buy it 20 years sooner. I think the best wedding gift anyone could give would be a tractor. Sooner or later they will bless the giver. (am I nutz?) ....

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Ducati996
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2003-12-11          70797

I was curious what the outcome was with Chuckles dilemia, especially with last weeks big snow fall....

Duc ....

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Ducati996
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2004-01-29          75421

Just thought i would bring this thread back to life!
Yesterdays 13.5 dusting on Long Island...no work and all play makes for a very nice day...




....

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JDLOVER
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-02-06          76113

T-Bone: Whatever you end up with, make sure it is something with enough power to do the job. Snowblowers take alot of power. I have been using a JD 445 with 47" two stage blower, chains, plenty of rear weights, and a cab. We have 7" of snow last night and just finished 250' of driveway and 1000 SF of parking area. Works like a champ. Don't even think about a single stage blower spend the extra money for a two stage.

Anyway, that's my experience for what it is worth. Good luck.

JDLOVER

....

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Ducati996
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Posts: 347 New York
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2004-02-06          76145

Hi Mark,

I'm not sure Dennis will allow it, so I dont do it anymore.
I can tell you off line if you give me an email address, since we cant PM here?

It will work on any board for the most part...a simple HTML command..

Ducati ....

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