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 03-31-2009, 21:22 Post: 161585
trbomax



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 tekfoil insulation

Has anyone used this stuff? Ive looked all over and cant find an r value,although farm tek says it will replace up to 2" of foam board.






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 04-01-2009, 00:01 Post: 161591
greg_g



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 tekfoil insulation

Depends upon which TekFoil. I used the foil/bubble-bubble/foil and the aluminized Kraft paper in my loft. At that time, they rated the FBBF at R14 and the Kraft was R4. Adding the air gap between them, I figure I ended up with a total ~R20.

//greg//






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 04-01-2009, 21:26 Post: 161640
trbomax



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I was thinking about it for under the slab instead of foam.The heat will be forced air wood,so slab insulation is more for comfort than anything else. For the walls and cieling I am looking at the custom cut fg batts that are faced on both sides,6" both places.






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 04-03-2009, 18:27 Post: 161698
earthwrks

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Trbo--where's Starvation Lake?

Are you planning on footers/rat walls for your barn? I've seen the 2" foam used on footers' outside, but not underneath the slab.

I have to wonder if putting anything that compresses like foam board will cause the concrete to crack easier and sooner seeing as it's not on anything that has been compressed like the underlayment base of stone or sand. Also, I know from removing concrete for a living that impact energy to the top surface of a slab poured on compacted materials transfers most of the energy to the ground and therefore doesn't crack it. If it's hit repeatedly it will however blow out a cone-shaped mass not unlike a BB-pellet hitting plate glass. However, concrete not touching anything to transfer that energy will crack easily.

From a practical standpoint, I have to think keeping the slab dry from underneath is key in not transferring cold through the moisture. We've done several barn floors and all we have been asked to use is heavy mil Visqueen as a vapor barrier






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 04-03-2009, 22:20 Post: 161702
trbomax



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I can tell you dont ride sleds,all sledders know where it is! The infaymous Hideaway bar on starvation lake!About 4 mi south and 3 east of mancelona.Starvation Lake rd runs east from cr 571 (kalkaska county).
You have some good points about the foam under. I think Im going to use the tekfoil under what will be the machine/wood shop area,and just the heavy plastic out in the vehicle part. I want the floor insulation just because my feet and legs dont like the damp anymore.I was going to rat wall the perimeter,not so much for critters as much as to keep the frost out. as long as you dont plow,you dont get any frost to speak of here.We had 3 to 4 feet of snow cover all winter,and thats average,If you dig into it,the ground is never frozen.Now where I plow is a different deal. My main water line runs under the driveway and even though its 5' down we have to start running water by the first week of feb.I should have foamed the line,but when we put it (water line) in ,it wasnt a full time driveway.Anyway,I figured an 18" deep trench a foot back would be enough except where the oh doors will be.I'm leaning to 24" square with some rod in it there.When I pull the groomer tractors in for work, I dont want to get a crack started.






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 04-04-2009, 16:06 Post: 161709
earthwrks

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Conctere gonna crack nno matter what. The key is control joints or cuts. We don't go any more than 10' sq.






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 04-04-2009, 16:22 Post: 161711
AlbertaDan



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If you re-enfoce the concrete with rebar and keep it tick enough it won't crack. I built a garage in '99. The slab is about 5" thick with 1/2' rebar aboout every foot in both directions (front to back and side to side). It is about 570 sq. ft in total. the slab haasn't cracked yet. I have hade my 3/4 ton diesel in there and up to four motorbikes and haven't had any issues. Before building I talked with a few carpenters. There suggestion was to use re-bar not the mesh. The mesh is a lot cheaper but won't hold the concrete together. the rebar should also be 1/3 to 1/2 from the bottom. Another example is the shops we build for our heavy haulers. The trucks weigh about 1,375,000 lbs. and the slabs don't break even under this amount of weight. I will say that the slabs are about 20" thick with multi layers of rebar but it is an example of what can be supported by concrete if it is built right. All of this weight is done with void-form(foam) under the slab.

Below is a link to understand where I work here in Alberta






Link:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands 

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 04-04-2009, 18:10 Post: 161716
earthwrks

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Hmmm. If all it takes to make concrete not crack is rebar, then our roads should last forever. But they don't.

Rebar helps keep it together, but once it cracks the rebar is exposed to moisture and rusts and degrades until it fails. And it depends on what type and condition of rebar too: is it rusted already, is it new and not rusted, or is it coated?






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 04-05-2009, 20:11 Post: 161752
AlbertaDan



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no the rebar has to be clean. if it has rust or dirt stuck to it the concrete won't stick. When we have rebar sit we always clean it off. If it has lot of rust and dirt build upwe haveeven gone to thelenght of sandblasting. If this for a garage floor than a 5 or six inck slab would be lots. unless your parking somthing the size of JD 9030 in it. Like I said I have my truck parked on my concrete since '99. No problems. When I had my truck weighed it was 3,100kg (6,820lbs) 10 years no cracks. The problem with roads ios that they are exposed to weather. Even a hailine crack will cause problems. Water gets into the crack and freezes over winter. It expands and makes the crack bigger. More water, more freezing, bigger yet. Soon it is pothole. Inside a garge this shouldn't be a problem.

My garage has a smooth finish, not broomed. In some light it looks almost polished. If you put a sealer over top it will last longer than you or me. sealer will keep the water from penetrating from the top. So when you park you machine after clearing snow the melt water can be pushed back out.






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 04-06-2009, 21:41 Post: 161792
trbomax



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The rebar does seem to work here as well. My carport floor and the apron in front of it is 6" with fiber and 5/8 rebar tied on 24" centers over plastic.Its been 3 yrs now,the apron part is totally exposed. I plow it with the sd and scrape it clean with the tc35da. The jd 8120t has been on it as well,summer and winter for service. Its not sawcut,only because it was oct when we poured it,so it just didnt get done(winter comes early here),and the next summer, I just never got to it.The edges are really chipped up,and the surface is scarred pretty bad from the chains on the nh (park it with the blower on it in winter) and the carbide studs on the 8120t,but no cracks yet.That slab was really overkill,and I wont go the rebar route in the shop,mostly because at 3500 sq ft,its just too much work for my 65yr old ass!But this time I will do the sawcuts!






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Barns Pole Barns Forum

Thread 161585 Filter by Poster:
AlbertaDan 2 | earthwrks 3 | greg_g 1 | trbomax 4 |




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