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NT304C overheating

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sjrogers1
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36 Arkansas
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2009-03-20          161274

We have a NT304C that has been overheating. We replaced the thermostat, temp guage and coolant. The tractor after a period of running starts spitting coolant out of the overflow. The temp guage reads about 170. Any ideas on what to check for the overheating problem? Is it possible to put a catch tank on the overflow? Tractor has about 100 hours.

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NT304C overheating

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2009-03-20          161275

If that's 170F, your temp gauge is almost certainly off. Even with straight water, the cap shouldn't release till 212F - higher with antifreeze. But since the OE gauges are metric, perhaps you just converted from Centigrade to Fahrenheit incorrectly.

Your replacement thermostat should have been in the 70C to 80C range. If it's the wrong fit, it could simply be blocked shut. Depending upon the metric number stamped into your cap, it should only be replaced with one in the 3psi to 7 psi range. If headbolts aren't retorqued at 50 hours, you could have a head gasket problem. One possible result is to introduce exhaust into the cooling system. That can raise the cooling system pressure high enough to burp the pressure cap. Check for oil in the radiator - or coolant in the oil pan.

Many new owners don't realize how much seeds and chaff get stuck in the radiator fins. The stuff collects in the lower 1/3, often hidden behind the battery. Left go to long, the radiator has to be removed for soaking and cleaning with compressed air. Side note; never use a pressure washer to clean these radiators - it will crush the delicate aluminum fins.

And yes, overflow tanks that are designed to accommodate closed systems work fine. The cheap $10 kits from JC Whitney work just fine on both my Chinese tractors.

//greg// ....

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NT304C overheating

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-03-20          161281

Ensure all air-cool passages are clear, the fan and belt are OK, and the antifreeze mixture is right.

If the temp gauge is accurate, the problem would seem to be the spitting, not any overheating, and a tank would fix. But if your manual said to torque the headbolts at 50 hours (which may be the case with Chinese diesels) and you didn't, could be a leaking head-gasket. ....

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sjrogers1
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36 Arkansas
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2009-03-20          161287

We ordered the new thermostat and guage from Northern Tool. We did not retorque anything at 50 hours. How can we check for a head gasket leak? If the head gasket is leaking what will we need to replace besides the head gasket? ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2009-03-20          161292

Mainly coolant in the oil and/or oil in the coolant. But a little can be hard to detect so unless it's obvious, look for an engine shop that has a Snap-On sniffer that detects oil in a sample of coolant.

Just the gasket, but you should have a service manual for the torque specs etc.

You could run it for short periods if it's a cooling system problem, but you don't want to run it at all if the gasket's going. ....

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NT304C overheating

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sjrogers1
Join Date: Aug 2007
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2009-04-13          161994

It does look like we will need to replace the head gasket. My brother-in-law ran the tractor with the radiator cap removed and saw lots of bubbles in the coolant. Hopefully Northern provides the torque specs and torque sequence in the manual. How many hours should we run it before we retorque? ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2009-04-13          162001

Well, you should have retorqued it and adjusted the valve lash at new+50 hours. So it follows, that you should perform the same maintenance at head gasket+50 hours

//greg// ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-04-14          162009

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 161275
But since the OE gauges are metric, perhaps you just converted from Centigrade to Fahrenheit incorrectly. Your replacement thermostat should have been in the 70C to 80C range.


Greg, are you sure you didn't slip on the conversion yourself?

70° Celsius equals 158° Fahrenheit.

80° Celsius equals 176° Fahrenheit.

That's a big spread in the temperature range, most small diesels I've come across want no less than about a 180° thermostat since they don't make much heat till you work them.


Best of luck. ....

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greg_g
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Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2009-04-14          162017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 162009
Greg, are you sure you didn't slip on the conversion yourself?70° Celsius equals 158° Fahrenheit.80° Celsius equals 176° Fahrenheit.That's a big spread in the temperature range, most small diesels I've come across want no less than about a 180° thermostat since they don't make much heat till you work them.Best of luck.
Guess you haven't run across many Chinese tractors then Murf. First off, they're all metric - to include the temp and pressure gauges (centigrade and pascals). The vast majority run 80C thermostats, the gauges reflect 80C as green - 100C as red. A few come across the Pacific spec'd at 70C. I used both numbers just to get the OP into the right range, because others have screwed up thinking it couldn't hurt to put a Chevy 195F thermostat in them. The cooling systems are simply not engineered for that kind of heat and pressure.

Now that I reflect on it, my Mercedes turbo-diesel also uses an 80C thermostat. There was an 85C option for places that have no winter weather.

//greg// ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-04-14          162022

Greg: "There was an 85C option for places that have no winter."

LOL
Maaaan! And to think all these years I've been told every place has a winter. Lied to again!
....

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greg_g
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Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2009-04-14          162034

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 162022
And to think all these years I've been told every place has a winter. Lied to again!
Winter weather. Has to do with how the Mercedes automatic climate control regulates the heater. In Minnesota, this car would have the 85C thermostat. In Florida, it would have the 80C. Since Chinese compact and utility tractors don't have heaters - much less climate control computers - they pretty much go with the 80C thermostat (with those very few 70C exceptions I mentioned).

//greg// ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-04-15          162052

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 162017
Guess you haven't run across many Chinese tractors then Murf.


I certainly haven't.

All of ours are 85° C. thermostats, even the bigger diesels. They do however have much larger by-pass holes than the average gas engine thermostat does.

Mind you I suspect a lot of those Chinese engines were originally designed to run without a water pump too. That would make a difference.


Best of luck.

....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2009-04-15          162068

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf | view 162052
I suspect a lot of those Chinese engines were originally designed to run without a water pump too.
Well, that's wrong too Murf. The most common of the Chinese CUT engines are multi-purpose. That is, the same engine has variants for tractor, marine, and stationary use (generators, pumps). Marine engines are typically water cooled, and I seriously doubt the stationary variants are air cooled. So it would be economically foolish not to construct all variants with water jackets and pumps. To underscore that, the 2006 EPA mandates require anti-pollution measures that necessarily increase engine temp (EGR for example) which absolutely necessitate liquid cooling.

When you get into the larger engines, they're manufactured under license. My 454 for example has an Isuzu based engine. A lot of the 60hp and up have Perkins type engines. All water cooled from the drawing board.

//greg// ....

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