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 09-26-2002, 15:00 Post: 42938
Matt W>
2002-09-26 15:00:09
Post: 42938
 HELP !!!!

Have Ford 1310 w/ FEL, was back blading today and the front end FELL OFF !!! The only thing holding the front axle on is the steering linkage. I'm no mechanic but I can turn a wrench. It appears that the spindle for the front drive pulled right out of the linkage. Is this common ??, Has anyone exprienced this themselves ?? Any advice or suggestions ?? I really do not know what to do next. Appreciate any words of wisdom.






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 09-26-2002, 23:22 Post: 42972
JonB



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 HELP !!!!

Hopefully someone with experience can offer a solution, but if I was in your spot, since I'm no mechanic, I'd get someone out there that knows Ford tractors. Doing it myself would probably cost more in aggravation and lost time than hiring experience--which is what I tell people about my day job. Good luck with it, and let us know how it turns out.

BTW, when I first got my JD4100, a massive bolt running through the frame and the front end had a nut totally loose. Fortunately I found it before the front end fell off, and tightened it before doing any work. I check that bolt regularly now.






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 09-27-2002, 07:32 Post: 42982
TomG

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 HELP !!!!

Matt: That's a real unfortunate thing to happen. I pretty much agree with Jon that the repair is likely to go beyond what many owners can do themselves. It's not so much that it's all that complicated, but some tools, jacks etc. that most people don't have are needed.

To illustrate, the link I included gives a parts diagram of the 1310 front differential gears. The front axle mounts to the frame by a stub that is part of the differential case and goes in the axle pivot. Additional support comes from a rear mount that the pinion shaft goes through. The diagram does not contain the drive shaft tube.

From your description, it's not clear what is disconnected. But the axle can't actually disconnect from the tractor unless the pivot is broken or if the pinion shaft/tube assembly failed and allowed the differential case to move backward and pull the pivot apart.

However, the exact reason may not be too important, because as you can see there are a lot of parts involved if the pinion shaft/tube has to be disassembled. That job would be fairly daunting to many owners. A broken pivot mount might be easier, but there's a pretty good chance that a broken mount would also have broken something else. A simple looking job could turn into a major disassembly, so I wouldn't start unless I was confident I could tear down and reassemble the entire front end. I also wouldn't work from a parts diagram alone. Repair manuals that give procedures, specs and adjustments are needed. For example, a disassembled differential needs to have the pinion pre-load set.

From all this, I hope you conclude that it's a very good idea to have manuals if contemplating even fairly simple repairs. NH sells both repair and parts manuals. I don't think after-market manuals are as detailed. There! Thatís my compromise for posting a piece of a manual. I'm actually trying to boost manual sales.







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 09-27-2002, 16:54 Post: 43011
Matt W>
2002-09-27 00:00:00
Post: 43011
 HELP !!!!

Update. My patience being restored I got at the tractor this am. Took tire off and was able to see what happened. Ready for this?? The weld broke that the front end bolts to the frame with. On the diagram from Tom G. it is the corresponding part on the frame where part #5 bolt to the frame. I feel better know knowing what caused the problem I don't know exactly what to do with this knowledge yet. Have friend come over and re-weld/resupport and then bolt it all back together or hire the entire job out. Probably the latter. Tom G., where did you get that exploded diagram of the front end?? I'ld be interested in similar sketches for the rest of the tractor. Thank all, I keep you updated. Matt






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 09-27-2002, 18:08 Post: 43013
Peters

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 HELP !!!!

Matt;
I wanted to post something but could not remember whether the 1310 was a center mount or not. I suspected the center pivot pin as it always seemed like a high stress point on the tractor. Have you had excessive down load or lifting of the front wheels? I guess I would look closely at the front axle housing to make sure it is not bent.
Alignment for the rewelding will be critical.
The JD 750 I had was damage by the previous owner by dropping the front end into a trench. He bent the front axle housing and not the mounts. He was not happy with the cost of this repair.






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 09-27-2002, 19:52 Post: 43020
TomG

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 HELP !!!!

The diagram came from a NH parts manual. The main purpose of parts manuals is to supply parts numbers for ordering, although I imagine most dealers now have some sort of computerized manual. I got both manuals from my NH dealer. the repair manual covers 1310's to 1710's. The parts manual is a bit pricy and covers 1110's to 2110's. I think they are very worthwhile things to have.

I don't think I'd heard of the pivot point support breaking before but somebody who knows what comes into dealer shops sure would know. There were some comments awhile back, and at least one person with an engineering background considers the 4wd coupling to the front diff on 1710's to be an inadequate design. Failures do happen there but that's on the other side of the diff. You do hear about pivot point bushings going bad on various tractors. Peters gave a good summary of front axle stresses. I'll add that heavy bucket loads on bumpy roads and fast ground speeds probably create a bunch of heavy shocks on the pivot mount. What ever the cause, itís too bad it happened.

I'd take the comments from Peters about repair seriously. It sounds like fairly specialized work. If something ends up out of alignment, it can go through bearings in a hurry, break shafts etc., and create even more expensive repairs.






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 09-28-2002, 06:40 Post: 43040
TomG

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 HELP !!!!

A couple of after-thoughts:

The first is that I seem to recall that the tractor was doing heavy loader work recently. I also recall a discussion from awhile back about ballasting. One idea that came out was that rear ballasting increases front-end stress. R4 tires also might increase stress. I don't know how the tractor was ballasted but maybe heavy buckets, a lot of rear ballast and bumpy raods was too much for the design. If that's the explanation, it's little help now of course but maybe the explanation will help somebody else.

The second is that maybe the repair will be about the least expensive of what might have happened. With some luck, maybe the support can be welded and no drive train parts are damaged. I wouldn't want to over-state the complexity of the repair, since '50's hot-rod mechanics did relocate frame cross-members motor-mounts etc without a lot of sophisticated training or equipment such as jigs to hold frame members in place while welding. Still, it would be good to have work done by somebody with experience doing this kind of work. Iíve had axles break and converted shocks break the professionally done conversion.

I hope the diagram served its purpose since I'm going to delete the post.






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 09-29-2002, 19:16 Post: 43088
Matt W>
2002-09-29 00:00:00
Post: 43088
 HELP !!!!

Upon real close inspection of the frame/weld area it appears that the right hand weld has been broken for a while. The reason I say this is there rust on the broken weld/metal on that side. The other side the metal is bright, shiny metal. Is it possible that only half the pivot area was holding the entire front end on for who knows how long? There has been this creeking sound in the front end only when the wheels are fully turned hard in either direction and I'm on bumpy terrain. I wonder if this has been building for some time. (I've only had the tractor since April)
Second thought: Tom G. I recently made my own rear ballast weight. I figure it is about 425-450 lbs. Does this seem reasonable for weight?
Thanks all for the help. I think I'll let a pro do the work. The $$$ spent might be well worth the hassle today and tomorrow.






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 09-29-2002, 19:56 Post: 43090
TomG

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 HELP !!!!

Matt: I really hope this ends up being a fairly easy welding job and that an inspection doesn't reveal anything else broken or bent.

It's a little hard to say regarding the rear ballast weight. I'm not sure my own rule of thumb is entirely a sound idea, but I ballast the 3ph so the steering feels normal. If the required ballast starts getting near to the 3ph capacity, then I figure I've got too much weight in the loader. I do shave my own rule of thumb sometimes, but then I go very slow and very low.

My impression is that if the rear end is held down by very heavy 3ph ballast, it can't bounce much if a bump is hit and the front axle absorbs a greater shock. R4 tires are stiffer and also probably create greater shocks to the tractor frame. In such a case, Id expect the steering to be abnormally light. I think that wheel ballast would affect shock differently than 3ph ballast but I haven't thought it through. I know that wheel ballast will hold down the rear but without affecting a tractor's balance.

Of course most of this is impression, speculation and probably irrelevant. It'd be nice if you just get the tractor back and it's not too painful.






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 11-19-2002, 19:42 Post: 45190
Matt W>
2002-11-19 00:00:00
Post: 45190
 HELP !!!!

Update: Just thought you all might want to know the fix was real easy (after I got the tractor to the dealer). It was just a easy welding job, a few seals, a gasket, and a nut or two. Total parts= $40-Good news. Total Labor=$550-Bad news, ouch. I really think I could have a buddy do the welding and reassembled myself and saved money. Oh well, life is a learning lesson, next time I'll know.
As an additional note I was talking w/ a buddy the other day about the conclusion of the problem. One of his employees (who is now a welder/mechanic) overheard the story and told me that his parent had a mid 80's ford and they had the same problem then. That being the point where the front assembly welds to the frame let go. I forgot to ask what model it was but I thought it interesting. They ended up trading it for new tractor to there dealer. Thanks to all who gave imput. As always very helpful and appreciative.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > New Holland Tractor Review Forum

Thread 42938 Filter by Poster:
JonB 1 | Matt W> 4 | Peters 1 | TomG 5 |




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