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AG vs Industrial Tires

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spsteve
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13 Delaware County, NY
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2010-12-27          175987

When I bought my new tractor I was given the 'choice' of either 'AG' or 'Industrial' tires.

What is the general concensus and what applications are each best suited for? (for next time)

Thanks..


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candoarms
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2010-12-27          175989

Spsteve,

Ag tires (R1) are generally used for heavy pulling in soft soil.....as when cultivating, plowing, handling manure, feed lot work, etc. They have very deep lugs and therefore don't provide a good ride on hard surfaces. Ag tires are designed to apply a great amount of pressure per square inch on the ground. They leave very deep impressions in soft soil. Ag tires will quickly wear on hard surfaces, due to the very small area making contact with the ground. They will also tear up a lawn in quick fashion. Ag tires are horrible on ice, but very good in deep snow and there's nothing better in mud.

Industrial tires are designed to provide long wear on hard surfaces. Due to the increased width of the bars, harder rubber, and a wider footprint -- industrial tires will greatly outlast ag tires when used on concrete, pavement, and gravel. Industrial tires don't provide for much traction in loose soil, and they aren't great on ice and snow. It's a good compromise for those of us who use our tractors in all conditions.

Turf tires are generally much wider than the others. They are designed for use on golf courses, finished lawns, football fields, city parks, etc. They provide little to no traction in loose soil. They're very bad in mud. However, they shine when it comes to reducing soil compaction on finished lawns. During the winter months, you won't find a better tire for use on ice.

Hope that helps.

Joel ....

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spsteve
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2010-12-29          176008

Quote:
Originally Posted by candoarms | view 175989
Spsteve,Ag tires (R1) are generally used for heavy pulling in soft soil.....as when cultivating, plowing, handling manure, feed lot work, etc.They have very deep lugs and therefore don't provide a good ride on hard surfaces. Ag tires are designed to apply a great amount of pressure per square inch on the ground.They leave very deep impressions in soft soil. Ag tires will quickly wear on hard surfaces, due to the very small area making contact with the ground.They will also tear up a lawn in quick fashion.Ag tires are horrible on ice, but very good in deep snow and there's nothing better in mud.Industrial tires are designed to provide long wear on hard surfaces.Due to the increased width of the bars, harder rubber, and a wider footprint -- industrial tires will greatly outlast ag tires when used on concrete, pavement, and gravel. Industrial tires don't provide for much traction in loose soil, and they aren't great on ice and snow.It's a good compromise for those of us who use our tractors in all conditions.Turf tires are generally much wider than the others.They are designed for use on golf courses, finished lawns, football fields, city parks, etc.They provide little to no traction in loose soil.They're very bad in mud. However, they shine when it comes to reducing soil compaction on finished lawns.During the winter months, you won't find a better tire for use on ice.Hope that helps.Joel


Thanks for the explanation. I was basically 'steered' towards the Industrial tires (I think that's how they came from CNH).

Sounds like I probably should have held out for the AG tires but time will tell.

....

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AbbasChild
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2010-12-29          176009

I have industrial tires on my tractor and in the summer/fall, working on gravel, and concrete/paved driveway, brush cutting fields I can go nearly anywhere--and we have some signif. slopes. In the snow, I feel more sure-footed with tire-chains on the rear and have had no problems so far plowing our 400 foot driveway. This winter I had thoughts about wanting the AG tires when we had a bit of a thaw and the path to the manure pile was 1-2 inches of mud on top of frozen ground beneath. I made it to the top of the hill, but the R4's really do not shed the mud well. As has been mentions on this site before--regarding tires--there is not one good tool for all jobs. Which is why we should have 3 good tractors in our shed! (Yeah, that did not fly well with my wife! :) )

I plan not to do any plowing of fields or hay making with this tractor so that was really the biggest reason I did not get the AGs.

Mike ....

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kthompson
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2010-12-29          176015

One thing Joel missed on the difference between the two is the side walls on the industrial tires are normally much stiffer. With Ag tires you often can tell by looking at them as to inflation level or not and if filled a great need to and the amount of "bag" is given in some places I have seen. The industrial tires, you best be checking with gauge as they can be low in pressure and not show until they show it creating a problem, such as tire off rim. Not good if on slope or such.

Joel, had never thought about the reason you gave why Ag tires wear out so fast on roads. Sure makes a lot of sense. Also a lot of ag tires get filled.

I have once had a Case with not sure if Firestone or Goodyear radials that to me has the best tire. They were ag tires with a broken tread looked sort of like a sheep's foot packer.

One thing to think on, many tractors with industrial tires from factory (those I have seen any way) are four wheel drive. If in dirt use of four wheel drive will help make up for tread difference. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2010-12-29          176024

AbbasChild,

I had to laugh at your comment concerning the wife's angry look when you told her that you need three tractors.

Tire selection is a major problem for us. There's no such thing as having the right tire for every job. We always end up making a tire choice that suits "most" of the chores we have planned for our tractors. Since we don't always have the best tire for every job, we go with 4x4 compact tractors to help make up the difference.

Kthompson,

Many farmers in this area have been putting triple tires on each corner of their big tractors........12 tires in all. The main reasons for this -- to reduce soil compaction, improve traction, and to reduce wheel slippage......or tire hopping. Tire hopping is very hard on equipment...twisted axles, engines rpms fluxuating badly, etc.

In an effort to solve all of these problems, most of the bigger tractors now come with tracks on all four corners. With the added traction this provides, the manufacturers are now installing engines with over 500 horsepower. The highest that I'm aware of is somewhere in the neighborhood of 535 horses.......and weighing in at over 52,000 lbs.

See the link below.

Joel ....


Link:   Case IH STX535 Quad

 
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kwschumm
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2010-12-29          176027

Different ground conditions (sand, sandy soil, clay, hard surface, mud, bog, etc) all have unique characteristics. Here the clay soil is sticky mud in winter and powdery in summer. Industrial tires don't work well in either condition so I traded my R4s in on Ag tires which work much better year-round here. The tread self cleans the mud and snow in the winter and gives better dry traction in the summer at the expense of leaving deep tracks in soft conditions. ....

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earthwrks
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2010-12-30          176042

Speaking of tracks, I have 16" wide high-floatation, light-weight over-the-tire tracks for my very heavy skid steer like the one in my avatar to the left. A foot an half of mud is no match for the machine, so long as there is a "bottom" to it.

Crazy idea here but in the same vein (or is it vain?) as over-the-tire tracks--picture if you will a tire with the bead and side walls removed leaving only the tread. (In theory) picture this the ID of tire only slightly smaller than the fully inflated tires already installed. The gutted tire tread now becomes a "skin" of sorts that would slip over an deflated tire; the tire would be reinflated thus expanding inside the "skin". Skins could be available with various tread types, even ice studs for us northerners. (Patent pending---kidding)

All joking aside, it could have real potential. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2010-12-30          176048

The tire tread thing has been bashed around quite a bit, but I think we all agree each tread has a "Best Fit" situation.
KT mentioned the stiff sidewalls of the R-4's. That feature does give me a comfort factor using a loader, sorta takes the squish factor out of the rear tires to help with a more stable feeling.
Most of the early Deere compacts came with truf treads that seemsed to be quite a negative at trade in time with a local dealer here. R-4's seem to be the most popular on all but the smaller compacts here.
Joel; Power Hop.
I had a Deere 8410 wirh front wheel assist, power hop was an issue with them. On a flat steady pull it was seldom a problem but head up a sandhill and hop hop she went. Hit the clutch, throttle back then go on over the hill. Deere came with all sorts of suggestions so far as front to rear weight ratios, lowereing the tire pressure to almost flat 6 - 7 psi pressures. All that didn't help much so I usually just throttled back when I started up a hill to prevent it.
Deere claims they have it solved using their optional independent suspension "Active" front axle. I've never driven one with the optional "Active" axle, so I can't speak with any experience there.
EW;
That don't sound like a bad idea, but there has to be a way to switch the treads from the driver's seat.
Frank. ....

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Murf
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2010-12-30          176051

Jeff, that's a very good idea except for one small problem;

It won't work. LOL

Seriously, if you look at any track, snow-mo-bubble, dozer, or even your SSL tracks they all have one thing in common, there's a way for the 'stuff' that falls in to get back out. Some have flat tracks (snow machine, dozer), some have gaps like your slip-on tracks. If not for that the debris that ends up in there more than takes up the free play and something breaks to allow some extra space. LOL

That and the inside of a tire is pretty smooth, a little water, mud or snow and the tire will spin inside the 'track' which has grip on the ground.

Now if you cut the entire sidewall out and left just the tread itself, then installed steel tangs that could hold the track in place it might work.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2010-12-30          176056

It has been a few years back but first time I asked about tractor with turf tires I was not in area that handled compact tractors, true ag country. That salesman told me not to buy with turf tires for he was not aware of a source to buy replacement tires. We were looking about a 40 some hp Case. Just wondering if that would be true today if it were then? ....

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joedirt
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2010-12-31          176084

i have a 2305 jd and the ind. tires are definately the way to go for this model at least. I mow the yard with mine and also get in the dirt, so it is nice to have the extra traction when needed. the concern was that i might tear up the yard, but that really has never been an issue. The ind. tires on this model really do well pretty much everywhere. I am actually thinking of upgrading to a 2320 or larger, and the ind. tires for the larger models are quite a bit taller and the lugs look like they are more aggressive. I have heard that they are still ok on the lawn for the most part, but i would love to hear from someone whp uses larger tractors with ind. tires on their yards. Thanks in advance ....

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lencamp
Join Date: Oct 2006
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2010-12-31          176085

Just wanted to add my .02 - have TC33D with R4s. Seems like a pretty good compromise. Doesn't tear up the yard but still gets traction in soft stuff and snow - not as good as ags for sure. I think a big deal here is CUTs are light and don't dig in like "real" tractors - make up for it with FWD. R4s are almost useless on ice and hard packed snow so am running chains in the winter - makes all the difference in the world - also rear tires are loaded.

Saw a picture of a little Deere with chains on the front. Would like to try that but am afraid they would get wrapped up in the steering linkage. ....

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candoarms
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2010-12-31          176086

Lencamp,

I have turf tires on my little 21hp Kubota. I chose the turf tires because I use my tractor for mowing and moving snow.

Turf tires aren't a good choice for snow removal work, so I opted for a very heavy duty set of 2-link, V-bar chains. With the wide turf tires, those chains make a lot of contact with the ground. I'm very happy with the chains.

I have the same problem with putting chains on the fronts. There isn't enough clearance between the inner sidewall and the steering arms. So....I did some checking around. Seems there are a few clever folks who have worked out a solution for this problem.

The answer to this problem is a spacer plate that you mount between the wheel and the hub. (be careful...some of the manufacturers warn against doing this.) The front tractor wheel then bolts to the spacer plate, rather than directly to the hub. The spacer plate is 1" thick, making plenty of clearance for the chains.

If you're interested, I'll see if I can find them again for you.

Joel ....

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lencamp
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2011-01-01          176093

Yes 2-link for sure rides amazingly well and gets good traction. I have the regular ladder chains - imagine the v-bars really dig in.

I'm going to pass on the front wheel spacers because I'm afraid offsetting the wheels might be too much for the steering knuckles - I've seen a few replaced on CUTs. Maybe not with no load up front but when I get a bucket full of dirt (or wet snow & ice) you can really feel the weight. Makes me a liitle nervous - no bouncing please.

When I first got the chains from tirechains.com I disengaged the front axle to put them on (not sure why). I went back out into several inches of heavy wet snow and didn't even realize I was in 2WD - the chains made that big a difference! Felt kinda foolish - sometimes I like to try 2WD just for comparisson. Have a steep hill to go down and noticed that 4WD also gives you 4 wheel brakes.

Did a post about chains and tensioners in the tires and wheels forum. ....

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hardwood
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2011-01-01          176094

I've never had tire chains on a CUT, I "Get By" with R-4's on the ice and snow, if I get caught I use the bucket to push myself out. I've thought about getting a set of the truck style bar chains for it but just never had enough trouble getting around to make it worth while.
If you could call it an advantage for not having chains maybe my ice clearing method would be one of them. I wouldn't recommend this on a nice concrete or asphalt drive. On our gravel drive I use the teeth of the box scraper to tear the ice loose on the drive. I drive fairly slow so when a tooth catches on something it just stops the tractor with wheel spin.
I used to have chains on my winter chore tractor to get feed wagons, a grinder mixer, manure spreader, etc., around in the snow and mud. they were the heavy "X" type bars with the big rings. They did the job but sure rode rough.
Frank. ....

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treeman
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2011-01-01          176099

I have turfs on my tc33d and am pretty happy with them. I mostly use a back blade for snow until it gets real deep then I put on the rear blower that I just bought. I'm on the flat here so it's pretty hard to get stuck. I did get stuck by dropping a wheel where the culvert is. When the rear tire dropped in, the blade was stuck in the snow and I couldn't lift the blade enough to get out. The neighbor was out plowing too so I waved him over to pull me out. He uses one of those giant end loaders to plow snow with. I think I could fit my whole tractor in his bucket. When it gets slick, his loader slides all over the place on r4's. ....

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bloggins
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2011-02-12          176843

I'm with treeman on this issue. I've added some pics in my profile, so that you can see turf tires at work in snow. The soft compound of the turf tire is an advantage in the snow and on ice. I've never gotten stuck in the snow (don't own chains either). In deep mud, yes, but not snow. These tires have 250 hrs on them and the tread pattern is nice and broad. To me they are the perfect "all-season" tractor tire for the homeowner. For farm use probably something else would be more suitable. ....

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hardwood
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2011-02-12          176846

I have no Idea if this is still true, but several years ago a salesperson at a quite high volume compact dealership said they discounted the value of a compact trade in for having turf tires. Nobody in our area other than a school or city park with a 90% mowing situation wanted them. I haven't paid much attention lately to what's on their lot.
Every tread type has it's good and bad points. I'm on my third compact with R-4's, they're not perfect in every situation but would get the same if I traded tractors.
Frank. ....

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greg_g
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2011-02-12          176848

I had turfs on my Yanmar, had to pull it out of the mud twice with my pickup. That's just wrong. Logic says it should be the other way around. Anyway, that was enough turf tire experience for me. The next four tractors all had 4wd and ag tires. No complaints, except a faster than normal front tread wear on the CUT. Little to none on the bigger UT, but it didn't spend as much time on hard surfaces. I considered R4s on my new John Deere, but I couldn't see where they were worth the extra $371. So it's being delivered Monday - yet one more tractor wearing standard equipment ag tires.

//greg// ....

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treeman
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2011-02-13          176850

Very true...turfs are not for mud. Once the tread fills up with mud, they are just slick. Ag's are best for soft soil, mud, and deep snow. They are not good on ice or your yard because they will compact the soil. If your going to do front loader work on rocky ground, the R4's are great because the sidewalls and big blocky tread is tough. Those same big, flat tread blocks will slide around on packed snow, ice, or greasy mud. The turfs are not for mud but do ok in the dirt. They are not as good in deep snow but are good enough for driveway work. I would not pick them to skid logs out of a woods in the middle of winter, although I have heard chains wook good on them because the chains don't fall between the tread like on a Ag tire.. They do ride smoother, don't tear up the yard, are great on ice and packed snow. I have spent many hours on Ag's and R4's, but for what I use my tractor for, the turfs are the best choice. Everyone's conditions are different, so chose for YOUR own uses. ....

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TC24daman
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2011-05-08          178368

One important note I did not see mentioned here but R4 are primarily industrial (Skid steer) design. With such design they are great at sliding sideways with minimal resistance/effort. That is how the skidsteer works of course. The bad side to that is wet grass or slick terrain on a side hill they are very dangerous especially on a tractor not designed or expected to slide sideways. So use extra caution with R4 in those types of situations. ....

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