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Blues1
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9 Nebraska
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2009-07-27          164396

Looking at buying a used TC34DA with Super Steer, rotary tiller, and 72" rear mount finish mower. Have a few questions:
-)Haven't seen any questions on the forum concerning this model tractor. Is that a bad sign?
-)Looking at adding a 3pt rough cut mower. Will this machine handle a 72" without undue stress or wear? Dealer says in handles the 72" finish mower OK.
-)Is a Boomer the way to go? Have read about a lot of electronic issues. Any other common problems to expect?

Please answer any or all questions as you see fit. Great forum. Glad you guy's are out there providing advice.


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kwschumm
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2009-07-27          164399

Does it have or has it ever had a loader mounted on it?

What do you plan on cutting with the 72" rough cut mower? I expect it would do OK under many circumstances but if you plan to cut 1-2" thick woody material or 6 foot dense brush you'd probably be pushing it.
....

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Blues1
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2009-07-27          164400

It does have a loader with 60" bucket.

What I have for rough cutting at this time would probably be less that 1" trees saplings and some light brush. Mostly tall grass and weeds. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-07-27          164401

I do not know about that specific model, but it seems that a small percentage of the mid-frame TC series have been known to break in half when operating with a heavy load in the bucket and a heavy load on the rear. A lot of owners have never experienced that problem but it would scare me off.

Here's a link to a recent thread on this topic for a TC33 model.
....


Link:   Broken tractor thread.

 
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Blues1
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2009-08-04          164641

Thanks for the link to the other thread. Interesting reading.

I did find out that the Clutch Housing part number for the TC34 and current 35's is different from the old TC 31-33 series.

Also noticed that the newer "LA" loader attachment is much better braced to the tractor than the old 7308 loaders.

Don't know if the above means anything or not, but I do appreciate you taking the time to make me aware of the issue. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-08-04          164642

Not sure what the answer to this is but I'd be curious to know if there is a different max load rating for the old and new loaders. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2009-08-04          164645

With enough abuse anything can be broken, but it does seem they had more than their share.
There are lots of good used green and orange tractors for sale too. Don't be afraid to shop around. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-08-04          164655

I have 2002 TC33D. I use a 5' RC and can cut down and mulch-in-place 4" caliper trees with ease (I also have a hydraulic top link which allows me to get the rear of the RC off the ground about 4' for much better attack angle). I regularly cut 6-8' weeds and saplings in 2nd range, and sometimes in 3rd. Rarely does it slow even in 3rd.

From what I understand, your machine would be the next size up from mine. I hear from the engine back it's not a a Japanese-made machine but English. That said it's a different machine than the trouble-frought TC33's and down. (It's sort of like having a '70's Jeep or AMC or British car--it goes with the territory it will have electrical problems)

The ones like yours I'm aware of love their machines and have not had any issues with them. That siad, these are not made like dedicated backoe/loaders--the loader buckets like all their distant cousins are not up to the task since they bend--and stay bent--easily.

Personally, for my needs the TC33D is the perfect size and combination of weight and power. ....

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Blues1
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2009-08-06          164723

Stumbled accross a 2006 JD 3520 at a very competitive price. Has 300C loader and 72" 7-Iron MMM. Will take a look at it this weekend and find out if it is for real.

I've heard the 7 Iron mower is good, but unsure if the MMM is the way to go. I don't plan to cut the front lawn with it, but would probably use it around the yard and out buildings where I don't have sprinklers.

Anybody have an idea of the ground clearance with the mower fully raised. Wondering if it will be a hindrance for FEL work if it is left attached.
....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-07          164728

I'm not sure about JD's but I know a TC33D I test drove and my neighbor's both only had about 5-6" of clearance raised if memory serves. The one I test drove got in the way so badly that as the owner encouraged me to dig into the pile the deck was loaded with dirt from dragging so low---not good because the ebarings and belts were covered with dirt. Not only that, but it's rare or should I say depending on what you're moving that you'll be able to make a perfect flat surface when you approach a pile. And when you dump it you'll have uneven ground too to drive over. The advantage of a NH with SupserSteer is it makes it easier to remove and install the mower since the front axle pretty much moves out of the way. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2009-08-07          164730

No, leaving the deck on while doing loader work just isn't a good idea.
Find out if the deck on the Deere is the new driveover deck. I haven't saw one used but did look one over at a dealership. Deere claims that you never get off the seat to mount or dismount the mower deck. That would be a slick deal.
Frank. ....

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Blues1
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2009-08-19          165124

Ended up buying a new Case Farmall 35 with L340 FEL. Dealer incentives made the price good and getting a warranty seemed like a good idea to me. Haven't delivered the tractor yet so can't report on performance yet.

New Holland's with Supersteer were higher priced. To me personally, the supersteer didn't seem to be worth the difference.

Test drove the John Deere with MMM and learned quickly that mower in the highest position dragged on the ground too often for my tastes. Wasn't a "drive over" style qick attach. Didn't think I could sell the mower myself and recover the cost difference.

Thanks very much for the advice. Have read through many threads and really gained a lot of info from your various discussions.
....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-22          165165

The Case lines are rebadged New Hollands (The company is called C-N-H [Case-New Holland]).

If you never test-drove a Super Steer machine you won't miss it. But if you ever did, and had the chance to mow and especially back blade or do anything in Reverse---you will miss it; it's like driving a hi-lo. When I do commercial brushhogging, I set the cruise control, and use only the right-hand cutting brake. When I get to the end of a row, I hit the brake and cut the wheel to the right and will literally spin around on a dime so to speak. If the grass is wet I actually get a negative turning circle since the momentum and centrifugal force from the brushhog spin me around. ....

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cutter
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2009-08-22          165175

I had one and really loved the ergonomics of the machine. If it were not for the mechanical issues I would have kept it, another story.

The SS is a great option, the only thing that could become a bit hairy is if I were not thinking about the fact that the front end "narrows' when that axle pivots. I never experienced a serious incident, but came close once on a hill. Going slow allows you to react, fortunately. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-23          165186

Cutter by narrowing, are you saying you lost stability?

Assuming yes, that is a perception. The reality is you have no more stability with a wide front end than you do with a side-by-side, two-tire tricycle front end. The axles' pivot point vertically are the same (horizontally the difference is the pivot point of the wide axle under the engine; the pivot point of a tricycle is the ground.) And unlike a car or truck, there are no springs, shocks, or bumpers to push back on the axle creating resistance and therefore stablility. Granted, a wide axle does have the ultimate benefit of eventually hitting built-in stops--but by then it could be too late.

To take SS one step further, stabilty is actually increased especially with a loader since the axle is forward by about 8" or more compared to non-SS. ....

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cutter
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2009-08-24          165206

I guess we will need to disagree on this one :)


http://www.public-health.uiowa.edu/face/Reports/REPORT-003.html ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-24          165221

Here's what it says:
Summary

A 75-year-old male farmer was killed while operating a tricycle type narrow-front tractor equipped with a front-end loader. He was using the tractor and front-end loader to remove manure from the cattle yard, then load it into a manure spreader which was located downhill from him. While making a turn in reverse, with the loaded bucket in the raised position, the tractor tipped over on sloped ground. Since the tractor had no ROPS, and was positioned perpendicular to the slope, the tractor rolled completely, crushing the victim. He was found dead at the scene a few hours later by his wife.

Recommendations following the FACE investigation were:

1. Tractors used with front-end loaders should be equipped with ROPS.

2. Tricycle type narrow front tractors should not be equipped with front-end loaders.

3. Loading areas should be designed to minimize the risk of tractor and loader overturns.

4. Tractor front-end loader operators should be made aware of overturn hazard and methods to reduce this hazard, including safe driving on sloping grounds, the changing center of gravity caused by a loader bucket, keeping the bucket low while driving, and using counterweights on the tractor.
__________

I firmly stand by my observations--tricycles are not any less stable than a wide front. The investigator of dubious credentials IMHO is absolutely incorrect about tricycles and loaders---there are many a loader on tractors still in use today and being used safely.

Think of this: Jack up and support at a single point near the front axle pivot of a wide-front tractor of any size with the loader raised. Remove the front axle. Rock the tractor side to side. Where does the stability come from? ONLY the rear tires. The front axle or lack of, has absolutely NO affect on stability. LOL

If you want stability, widen the rear stance and/or add weight.

Do you agree now LOL? (I'm starting to see a faint flicker of that bulb over your head LOL)

And one other thing, they recommended a ROPS--on a tractor with a loader---as if that would have saved him. Not so. That is counterintuitive for one single reason: When the tractor overturned the raised loader acted as a ROPS---there was no indication it kept rolling over and over.

What they should have said is a seat belt should have been used--that would have kept him from being crushed. A ROPS would have been a bit more protection--perhaps, but then again depending on where it's placed it could actually crush the operator if they instictively extended their arms or upper body to save themself.

European tractors have their ROPS moved toward the cowl area ahead of the steering wheel--I believe for just this same reason of operator crushing. And it may provide some protection from tree branches or give you a chance to duck.

Incidentally I have intimate knowledge of this type of roll over without a ROPS and no seat belt: my great uncle was crushed in the same way when he was back blading his mountain road. He looked back and steered up into the mountain and overturned. ....

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kwschumm
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2009-08-24          165225

I have no horse in this race but it does seem to me that an articulating front axle would narrow the width of the front track and reduce stability. Think of it this way - taken to the hypothetical extreme, with the front axle pivoted to the point where it is perpendicular to the rear axle, how stable would it be? Then as it swings further from perpendicular the track gets wider and it gets more stable.

Anyway, my brother is a mechanical engineer and happens to be visiting. So I asked him. He said that an engineer would be remiss if he did not account for the reduction in front track width as the axle articulates because stability would be reduced. FWIW ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-24          165226

KW LOL you now have TWO horses--yours and the Bro in law's.

Before I forget---if we were to dimensionally extend the track or width of ONLY the front pivoting axle to say 8', or 15' or a 1000' what then would be the affect of stability? Let me save you some time: nada! zip! zero!

Now conversely, what if we extended the axle of a tricycle tractor's front axle by the same measurements (assuming two wheels on the same plane)? Unbelievable stability--that is, until it was driven. Now you have a rigid vehicle that, unless the ground was not perfectly flat, has only THREE wheels on the ground... hmmm... sound familiar? Forget about bump steer, and being plain impractical.

I think what may be operating here is our young memories going back to pulling a little red wagon and making the front axle turn to the point the wagon tips. That's more of a function of a vry narrow rear wheel track combined with a slopppy axle pivot point, and torquing the wagon shell allowing the front axle to be effectively pushed from under the wagon upsetting the vertical centerline of the pivot.

I still feel if you give my analogy a second or third look you'll agree.

I'm so confident in this that I'll bet even ol' redneck Kenny can understand it and even agree (I hear he's a pretty fart smeller).

But I'm jis' sayin'.
....

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kwschumm
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2009-08-24          165227

I never had a little red wagon

But... are you saying that a wider front track in the straight ahead position would not increase stability? I'd have to disagree with that.

After setting the rear rims on my JD to the widest position it sure seemed to increase stability as measured by the pucker factor on hillsides.
....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-25          165239

But... are you saying that a wider front track in the straight ahead position would not increase stability? I'd have to disagree with that.

>>>>>Yes I'm saying that. Again, the only way it's going to give you any stability is if it were able to have resistance or push back between the frame and the axle. Otherwise it's just there for the ride.

After setting the rear rims on my JD to the widest position it sure seemed to increase stability as measured by the pucker factor on hillsides.

>>>>>"I see said" the blind man. But you're confusing the rear stability with the front. The rear axle is integral to the machine--sort of like solid outriggers. Yes the wider you go on the REAR of a tractor, the more stability you'll get.

(now here's another example that will either confuse you even more or shed more light: a true "front end loader"--modern articulated or old-style steerable "truck" axle--all pivot at the rear. All the stability needed for the loader to work properly--that is, for it to scoop consistently level into a pile--HAS to be at the front closest to the pile. And the way they do that is the loader arms are solidly connected to the front half of the machine and the front axle is solidly mounted to that. The rear axle is allowed to float which it has to otherwise one wheel would end up with not touching the ground. Another example is the first-ever bobcat or skid steer loader was a... tricycle. YUP! It had a big catser wheel in the rear. The up side was it was easy to steer but it only had 2wd. Skid steers today don't have articulating axles--they are solidly mounted to the "house" or frame. And just like a anything with solidly mounted wheels on uneven ground, theoryetically only 3 wheels are on the ground at any given time [in practice, dues to weight and tire compression you may get all 4 touching)
....

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hardwood
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2009-08-25          165244

I won't stir the pot any more than it alrerady has been, I'll just add a couple observations

1- No matter how safe any manufacturer builds anything from spray cans to front end loaders to automobiles, someone is still going to get hurt or killed because of the most basic safety feature being abused, COMMON SENSE.

2- The local elevator has an articulated type skid loader, I don't remember the brand, maybe I'm wrong but that thing always looked like an accident waiting to happen when the loaded bucket is up and the thing is bent to the max in the center.

3- I havent saw a recently done one but the "Fad" around here twenty years ago or so was to take an old Allis WD 45, reverse the ring gear in the differential so the foraward speeds no went backwards then mount a front end loader on the rear. the worked pretty well. They were really stable but kinda clumbsy compared to a skid steer. ....

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Blues1
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2009-08-25          165248

EW, For what it's worth, I agree with you. However, won't the front axle hit a "stop" at some point in the rollover? Instead of just being a single free pivot point, you would be at a point where it would have to lift the far wheel off the ground and raise the tractor slightly. At this point, it seems like it would contribute to some resistance to rollover. At the same time, from my distant memory of jacking up the front end of a tractor, the front axle on that tractor had so much free movement that I think you would probably be too far gone before those "stops" actually even came into play.

How's that for the NEWGUY alienating half the group.

....

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kwschumm
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2009-08-25          165250

>>But... are you saying that a wider front track in the straight ahead position
>>would not increase stability? I'd have to disagree with that.

>Yes I'm saying that. Again, the only way it's going to give you any stability is
>if it were able to have resistance or push back between the frame and the axle.
>Otherwise it's just there for the ride.

OK, I finally understand what you're saying. I was thinking of articulating axles without considering the pivot point. But I still disagree with the conclusion. Yes, the tractor in effect becomes a tricycle. But the pivot at some point "bottoms out" as the machine tilts and *at that point* lateral tilting forces are transferred through the pivot to the axle. The track width of the axle would then come into play and wider would be better. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-25          165261

blues and KW: Yes on all points--especially and particularly on the bump stop. But as I said earlier, by the time the bump stop comes into play it's too late. And personally I don't think the bump stop is there for safety; more like to keep from ripping off steering components. And from a legal standpoint, in the event of a rollover if that feature was called into question a mfg would not want to be responsible for not designing it correctly to prevent injury or death. The other problem is while the tractor is sitting on level ground the front axle has X amount or degree of travel. But this really doesn't matter because you have to add that to the amount or degrees of tilt the back of the tractor sees--and that total is what contributes to a roll over--or not.

Case in point: 25 years ago I was a product designer for a Harley-Davidson supplier. We made a product then called a "crash bar" a hoop-shaped device that afforded protection in a crash. A rider was injured, lost his leg and sued that the "crash bar" failed to protect him. From then on we had to change the blueprints and shipping labels to say "engine guard". ....

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kwschumm
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2009-08-25          165267

If SS really behaves like a tricycle on hills then it seems to be a poor option. A guy can do darned close to a zero turn radius using turning brakes with no reduction in stability or loader capacity and no extra issues when working in tight quarters.
....

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cutter
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2009-08-25          165269

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues1 | view 165248
How's that for the NEWGUY alienating half the group.


Nonsense, we all disagree at times, so welcome aboard. Bring your opinions to share anytime around here.

Now, back to my opinion :)

Even if the front axle can articulate, you still have the downhill tire planted and a solid "fulcrum" extending from the spindle a few feet to the center/bottom of the front casting. In my view, this adds resistance to the machine's tendency to travel in that downhill direction. I see it occur on my old Allis on side hills.
....

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kwschumm
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2009-08-25          165270

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter | view 165269
Nonsense, we all disagree at times, so welcome aboard. Bring your opinions to share anytime around here.Now, back to my opinion :)Even if the front axle can articulate, you still have the downhill tire planted and a solid "fulcrum" extending from the spindle a few feet to the center/bottom of the front casting. In my view, this adds resistance to the machine's tendency to travel in that downhill direction. I see it occur on my old Allis on side hills.


It seems that way but it also seems with an articulating axle the fulcrum may not be planted solidly. If it articulates "just a wee bit more" it may make the problem worse if the front tire starts rolling instead of staying planted. There are a lot of dynamic forces involved and it seems a bit hard to predict in the general sense. ....

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hardwood
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2009-08-26          165280

OK, lets muddy the waters a bit more. How about the John Deere "Roll-Omatic" tricycle front pedestal. The pivot point is at the level of the front wheel spinles instead of the ground like an ordinary tricycle front pedistal. Deere sold a zillion of them on the old two bangers and the early 4010 and 4020's. I had one on a 4010, they were meant to smooth out the ride a bit and help you steer when crossing ruts and plow furrows.
Sorry EW, just when you thought you had all this figured out, then older more experienced minds com into play. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-26          165295

Nice try Mudwood LOL

The points you bring up are about ride characteristics. Sounds to me like the front end was sprung like a fork on a motorcycle, or probably more like a front wheel of an craft. But it had nothing to do with stability, right? Admit it Mudwood LOL or prepare by putting on yer helmet!

Since you brought it up, a wide axle rides much better the wider it is. Reason being the fulcrum is halfway along the axle. That means, roughly, if the axle drops or raises you feel only one-half the depth/height of the hole or bump. You see this type of suspension on roadgraders ....

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hardwood
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2009-08-27          165299

OK, EW get your helmet on.
Yes it does have a bearing on the stability. You guys are arguing about whether a tricycle tractor has more stability with the pivot popint being at ground level instead of just below the front frame of a tractor with a wide fromt axle. The Roll-Omatic moves the pivot point up to the spindle level of the front wheels.
For those too young to remember the Rool-Omatic pedistal had the spindles mounted on a lever that was connected to a gear inside the pedistal that meshed with the gear of the opposite spindle. When one wheel went over a bump or into a dip the front of the tractor moved up or down only half the distance of the dimension of the bump or dip.
Now EW, they tell me that a lot of car crashes are caused by a distracted mind, so don't drive and think about this too much, OK. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-08-27          165319

yer right Frank--I am too young, grampa' LOL

(helmet-ON!!)

LOL u wre in sch a hirry you didn't vene have the wiif prouf read it LOL LOL

Got any pictures of of your "Rool-Omatic"

Gimme a hug Franky...errrr...grampa ....

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hardwood
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2009-08-27          165322

OK EW;
I don't have time to figure out how to put pictures on this gizme, I'm a busy man you know, so your just going to go look at an old two banger with a "Roll-Omatic" front pedistal.
Oh by the way there is no such thing as a "ROOL-OMATIC" as your not so perfect either spelling put it.
I'm just going to have to bring you out to Iowa and give you some good old out behind the barn edukashin. I think the big city smog is clouding your mind or something. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-27          165323

OH, I did say ROOL-Omatic didn't I. Well even the best of us slip now and then. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-27          165324

"the best of us" ---and you're including YOURSELF in that I see hahahaha.

Big city smog eh? I'm south west of Deeetroit so the smog we're getting must be from the an-nee-mals in I-oh-whaaa. ....

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AbbasChild
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 72 Western Pennsylvania
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-08-28          165332

For what it is worth, one of the tractors that I am looking to buy is a NH T2210 with FEL (aka 2030, TC31DA). If I am following this correctly, the dealer was right in saying the he would NOT recommend the supersteer if you have hills as the risk of rolling it over is greater. In addition, on this tractor it would only cut the radius down by 7 inches and significantly reduces the ground clearance (11.3in to 7in). ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-08-28          165336

No offense, but your dealer who told you Supersteer increases roll over doesn't have a clue.

I use mine commercially to brushhog hills and especially ditches that are so steep and deep you can't walk up them.

The beauty of SS is that if you do get in situation of too steep a side-hill all I do is cut the wheel to the up-hill side, hit the cutting brake and I can walk right out. The reason is the farthest-most front tire goes past the front bumper into solid ground for better bite.

In fact one client has my same machine without Supersteer and refuses to cut his own ditches and rather pay me. In the seven years of ownership I have never overturned it and that says a lot considering some of the stuff I willingly get myself into--and out of.

And the low clearance of SS has only caused me to get hung up ONE time and that was trying to cross a big wet log at an angle. Other than that it's not an issue. ....

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