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mathewb
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6 La Crosse, WI. USA
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2008-12-31          158965

New Holland 1530 - I noticed that my temperature guage wasn't registering any normal temps. Barely moved off the bottom. So I checked everything out. All fluids at the correct levels - radiator cap looked normal. Called the dealer and asked their opinion.

They stated that I probably had a stuck thermostat which is what I figured too. So I replaced it with a new one. Drained and changed the coolant in this operation.

Now the guage will run up to the bottom of the green, then apparently the thermostat opens and it drops back to nothing.

Now what? I've never ran into anything like this before.


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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-12-31          158966

MathewB,

It's not uncommon for a smaller tractor to have engine heating and cooling issues during the winter months.

Way up here in the frozen north, many of us place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator during the winter months.

Remember that your tractor is designed to allow the radiator to cool your engine during even the hottest summer weather. During the winter months it is not necessary to allow for such extreme cooling efficiency.

You can either place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator, or make a cold weather canvas cover front for your tractor. A canvas cover should have a flap with either snaps, or a zipper, allowing you to adjust it for proper air flow.

Insert a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator, and then KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON THE TEMP until you are sure you have it adjusted properly. If it gets hot, cut a hole in the cardboard. If it's still on the hot side, make the hole just a bit bigger.

I have two pieces of cardboard for my tractor. One has no openings cut in it at all. I use that one when the outdoor temps are in the -10 to -30 degree range. The other has a hole about the size of a softball cut out in the center. I use that one when the temps are anywhere from 0 - 25 above zero.

Works great. Just don't forget to watch the temperature gauge. It's a habit that takes a little getting used to.

Good luck.

Joel ....

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mathewb
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6 La Crosse, WI. USA
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2008-12-31          158967

Thanks for the response. I've tried the cardboard and it's still not registering any heat. I'm wondering about the temp sensor now.

I would understand if it was just running cool, but the guage is going up to green and then dropping back to almost nothing.

But you're right, I haven't had a chance to run it in anything above 15 degrees for the past couple of weeks. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-31          158968

Get the engine thoroughly warm with the rad cap loose. Shut off the engine, open the rad cap and stick in a kitchen thermometer.

You should get a reading of about boiling point ideally, but realistically in this weather you will probably not get much more than 150° to 175°.

If it is colder than 150° you need to do something to raise the temperature. The cardboard will work, but if it is not centered on the rad it can cause the fan to cavitate and flex to much. I prefer to see you just close off the front of the tractor grille, this will do a lot to limit the air through the rad, you want to reduce it, not stop it totally.

You may want to ask the parts guys at the dealer if there is a hotter thermostat you can get for that unit. Just don't forget to switch it back come summer time.A lot of the Japanese based units have such an efficient cooling system that you really have to work to warm them up.

Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-12-31          158969

Mathewb,

I'll try to explain things a bit better.

Your temperature gauge is fluctuating due to the thermostat opening and closing frequently. When the engine gets warm the thermostat opens, allowing coolant to flow through the radiator. The coolant then quickly cools off, causing the thermostat to close again.

Your temperature sensor is located beyond the thermostat. In other words, it won't read coolant temperatures when the thermostat is closed. You'll get a reading only when the thermostat opens again, because the thermostat is located in the cooling circuit, rather than in the engine block.

My little Kubota has a debris screen located just ahead of the radiator. It slips right out through the top allowing for easy removal of grass clippings, etc. I completely remove the debris screen during the winter, as there's no chance of anything of the sort plugging up my radiator during the winter months. I used the debris screen as a template to cut out a piece of cardboard that will slip right into the debris screen's channel.

Try it. I think you'll see a noticeable improvement.

One more thing..........

Diesel engines like to run a bit on the warm side. They don't operate efficiently in cold weather. Blocking off the air flow through the radiator is actually good for your diesel engine, provided you don't get it TOO hot.

Best of luck. Let us know how this works out for you.

Joel ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-12-31          158970

Murf,

Thank you, Sir.

I didn't see your message before posting my last one.

It is very important to cut the hole (if there is one) directly over the center of the fan hub. This will prevent any fan flexing problems.

My little Kubota has a nylon fan blade. There's little chance of it breaking due to metal working fatigue, as would be the case with a steel fan blade.......even so, the hole in the cardboard is cut directly over the center of the fan hub.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-12-31          158971

Joel, I'd be even more cautious of a nylon fan than steel, when the temperature drops a material that is very pliable at 70° F. can turn into an amazingly brittle product at sub-zero temps. In your area this may be a bigger issue than for most people.

I'd also be cautious about stopping air flow across the rad for another reason, clearing snow can be hard work, that hard work will make heat, and it needs to be dissipated, quickly, if you block off the grille rather than the radiator it will still allow cooling, but will keep the engine warmer.

Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-12-31          158972

Murf,

You're right about snow removal being hard work. It is very important to keep an eye on the temperature gauge when working the tractor hard in these temps.

Joel ....

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mathewb
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6 La Crosse, WI. USA
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2009-01-02          159001

Thanks for the response guys. I'll give these ideas a try and see what happens. With these outside temps in years past, it would always run in the green on the guage, so since it won't this year, I'm still guessing that I've got something mechanically wrong.

Bruce ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-01-02          159007

I agree there's something wrong, likely the thermostat (wrong opening-temp or poor design). The cardboard-cover solution dates from the time before there were proper thermostats. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2009-01-02          159008

Auerbach,

I disagree, Sir. Winter fronts are common in my area. They aren't truly necessary for gas engines, but my gas truck has one.

When it comes to diesel engines, a winter front is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Diesel engines don't produce much power when they operate below the recommended temperatures. Diesel engines also get poor fuel mileage when they run cold.

See the link below.

Joel ....


Link:   Winter Fronts for trucks, cars, and heavy equipment

 
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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-01-03          159034

Not to argue, Joel, just to understand better before I put one on mine. I wonder why I've never seen a diesel tractor with a factory-supplied rad cover. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2009-01-03          159035

Auerbach,

To be quite honest, very few people live in climates as cold as it gets here in North Dakota. The great majority of vehicle owners live in places FAR warmer than here.

Cold weather operation is something that the operator is 100% responsible for. Block heaters don't come as standard equipment, nor do electric battery blankets. (See the link below) The owner/operator is responsible for ordering these things and having them installed. Cold weather fronts aren't provided by the manufacturers......not even as options. With regard to fuel gelling up, most manuals don't even mention this.

Cold weather operation is something that comes from the school of hard knocks.

If you visit with your local ag dealer, he'll probably know of a few companies who make canvas cold weather fronts for tractors. I've seen a few of them, but I have no idea how much they cost. Most people around here simply sew up their own, or place a piece of free cardboard ahead of the radiator. I find that the cardboard works perfectly. I have no desire to spend a few hundred bucks on a canvas cover, when free cardboard works just as well.

There are many other things to consider when operating ANY vehicle in extremely cold weather.

Joel ....


Link:   Electric Battery Blanket / Heater

 
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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-01-03          159037

Good point about the heater and warmer. I'm so concerned about keeping my rad clear that it never occured to me to block it, but I'll give it a try, at least until global warming becomes a reality. ....

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mathewb
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6 La Crosse, WI. USA
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2009-01-04          159057

Thanks again Guys. :)

I've talked to the dealer / service rep a few times. I've replaced the thermostat and they had me ground the temp sender and the guage would peg to the hot. So the guage is working and the sender is not.

I've ordered a new sender and also added a piece of card board to the front of the radiator with a hole in the center of it.

I must say, I'm getting very good at draining the radiator... ;)

Bruce ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2009-01-07          159180

You can tell if the engine is truly getting to temperature by squeezing the radiator hoses when the engine should be up to temperature. If they are hot and have pressure, they will feel hard. If the engine is running way too cold, they cooling system will never develop enough pressure to make the hoses stiff. If the hoses are soft, it might not be a bad sender either.

The thermostat provides a resistance to fluid flow, even when it is open. Remove the thermostat and it is hard for most engines to reach operating temperature. On race engines, we often replace a thermostat with a metal orfice to restrict the flow and provide proper cooling with no reliability problems.

Here in NM, it takes forever for my diesel truck or tractor to warm up. Cutting down the airflow through the radiator helps this time of year. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2009-01-08          159197

Realize over the road trucks and farm tractors have different budgets but still gets my attention to be meeting a rig and the grill pops closed or open.

....

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