TC33 won t start -- sometimes: New Holland Tractor Review  -- New Holland Tractors Discussion Forum and Review TC33 won t start -- sometimes: New Holland Tractor Review -- New Holland Tractors Discussion Forum

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 01-17-2006, 23:33 Post: 122925
JDLutey



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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

I have a TC33-D that won’t start / won’t crank – SOMETIMES. At times it starts perfect, but sometimes it goes CLUNK – down on the left, at the starter, at the solenoid.

What I do is I turn the key, (part way) watch and wait for the glow plug light to go out, and then turn the key to “start position”. What happens, (when it fails) is that it goes CLUNK, but won’t crank. If you forget one of the “safe switches” .. like still have the PTO engaged, or don’t have the “transfer case” in Neutral, it won’t go CLUNK at all.

If you try again (it doesn’t seem to matter whether you turn it clear off and do another glow plug cycle or not) … sometimes 4 or 5 times, it might crank and start. NOTE, the battery is fine: (1.) I replaced it a couple of months ago, and (2.) if I watch the voltage at the high side of the solenoid (from the batt.), it’s 12.4 at first, pulls down to 11.9 while the glow plugs are on, then back to 12.3 and then down to 12.1 as I try the “start position”. NOTE 2., one can hold the key in the “start position” for maybe 5 to 6 seconds at a time – long enough to take a voltage measurement – but any longer than that and it’ll cost you a #5 plug-in-type fuse on the fuse panel. There’s obviously current through the solenoid coil.

Again, what happens, is that it goes CLUNK, but won’t crank. I WAS 99% sure that the CLUNK was the solenoid being pulled in. I could measure the voltage at the bottom of the solenoid – the lug to the starter -- and there was nothing on the CLUNK / fail to start tries, and (obviously) DID have 10-12v when cranking and starting. I thought the solenoid contacts must be bad, scarred up, intermittent, so I replaced it.

She started 3 times in a row, but then … CLUNK again. It CLUNKED 3-4 times, then started – same as before. Now, (I should have before, obviously) I have put a VM (VoltMeter) on the small violet “start/crank” lead that goes to the solenoid – the one labeled “HM17 V-1.0” on the schematic. It has no voltage till you “crank” it. Then it goes only to about 6v when the CLUNK / no crank happens. It has to be pulling the plunger SOME – you hear it and feel it as well – but not enough to smash the electrical contactor part. On enough tries, it finally will hit greater than 10 (not a full 12v, and hard to tell – it “spikes” with the field in the solenoid) and the thing cranks and starts!

So what’s the deal? Do I have a bad – high resistance relay – or what? I’ve looked at the group under the right side cover – the ones that I labeled 3, 4, and 5 (from the left – nearest the steering wheel) are all the same exact (Bosch) part number. They look to include the PTO safety and the Neutral start safety relays – I swapped them around a couple of different ways and it makes no difference.

Anybody have any idea what the cause might be?

Oh .. one more point. I’ve used an ammeter as a test lead and if I put battery 12v directly on the solenoid start lead – the one labeled “HM17 V-1.0” on the schematic – it starts every single try (assuming that the key is on)! Plus I can measure the current pulled by the solenoid coil (7-9 amp fyi … it “spikes up” and is hard to read for sure)






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 01-18-2006, 08:49 Post: 122948
BillMullens

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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

I'd look for a bad wire or corroded connection on the ground side.

My next guess would have been a bad relay, but you already switched them around.

If it wasn't for the lack of voltage on the no-starts, I would have said look for a mechanical cause...mouse nest in the flywheel housing or starter bad.

Hopefully oneace will chime in.

Good luck,
Bill






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 01-18-2006, 18:50 Post: 123001
oneace

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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

You have a bad starter. The clunk is the solenoid engaging but the contacts (brushes)in the could be going bad and have to be n the sweet spot. Could also be the armature. Best way t tell will be to pull it off and do a bench test. If you have an auto electric shop near you they can rebuild it a lot cheaper than you can get one from the dealer. Usually around $100 to $150. I think that starter from the dealer will run around $250.






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 01-20-2006, 21:46 Post: 123136
agriman



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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

Your problem is related to low voltage. Some of the newer NH/CIH 33 an 29 hp Compacts seem to be having this problem.

The symptoms leads you to think it's starter related and replacing the starter will improve the problem for a short time.

The voltage drop is most likely coming from the glow plug relay.

The proper fix will be to add a circuit Breaker to the start circuit.

Contact your local dealer he should be able to provide you with additional information on the problem.

I think the parts and instructions are now available from your local dealer. It's a fairly straight forward installation or I’m sure the dealer will be glad to do it for you.

If you have any problems let me know..






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 01-20-2006, 23:19 Post: 123145
JDLutey



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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

Thanks all.

OneAce, I've read your posts, and I hoped you'd see this. I really respect your opinion, BUT it doesn't seem to be the starter.

Like I said, I bypassed the whole string of safety relays, going from raw 12v to the solenoid "pull and start" lead -- at first with an ammeter. It starts every time if I do that. Just like it does IF the HM17 lead goes to 10v or better. It's just when the HM17 lead is at 6v or so that it goes CLUNK and won't crank. (AND, I've got 3 voltmeters, and have pur one on the batt. during all this too -- the batt. stays at 12v or better during the CLUNK. It is not the batt.)

In fact, i got PO'd and put in a toggle switch (from some fuse -- i forget the # but it is ign. switched and feeds only yhe "aux light kit"Wink yeah right to the HM17-V-1.0 lead. I use the key start if it works ... if not, if i get the CLUNK, THEN I try the toggle switch abd it works every time.

I really think it's in the safety switch / relay crap. There's gotta be a high resistance point someplace -- intermittantly. It's just an SOB to find .. I hate to keep cutting into the wire harness to test, and if you hold the key too long, it pops a fuse.

JL






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 01-21-2006, 07:50 Post: 123157
oneace

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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

Pull the relays one by one and try to start.






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 01-29-2006, 17:26 Post: 123728
JDLutey



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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

and that'll tell me what? I've already swapped the 3 identical ones around. What i labeled as # 3,4 & 5 (counting from the left) look to be "neutral start" (#1 on the print), "glow plug power" (#3), and "PTO safety start" (#2)... based on the wires to them. They ARE identical, even tho "glow plug power" looks to be different on the print. That one doesn't look like it'd matter (assuming the engine was warm) ... it obviously wouldn't crank if the others were out. except that my "bypass switch" works great with ALL those 3 relays out. J






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 03-17-2006, 07:02 Post: 126211
poorfarm
2006-03-17 00:00:00
Post: 126211
 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

I had the same problem from the day I purchased my TC33D. I replaced the started yesterday - after 3 years of fiddling with everything else. I had a defective starter.

The new starter solved the problem.






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 03-23-2006, 19:29 Post: 126591
nhman
2006-03-23 00:00:00
Post: 126591
 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

the problem is usually a low voltage problem at the start wire. we at the dealership are using a relay and use voltage from the starter to excite it by a extra relay and this solves it.






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 04-20-2006, 23:46 Post: 128072
wrs01a



Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montana
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 TC33 won't start -- sometimes

My TC21 is doing exactly the same thing, except it doen't clunk it either gets a full 12vdc and starts or 0vdc and nothing happens. If I jumper 12vdc to the starter solonid it starts EVERY time. I'm waiting for a wiring diagram to get deeper into the diagnostics, meanwhile it is being started with a remote switch. It appears to me to be a faulty starter relay, which I'll try next. I'll let you know if / when I get it figured out.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > New Holland Tractor Review Forum

Thread 122925 Filter by Poster:
agriman 1 | BillMullens 1 | hankey 1 | JDLutey 6 | nhman 1 | oneace 2 | poorfarm 1 | treeman 1 | wrs01a 1 |




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