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Need help with my Mt 372

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2008-11-04          157668

I just bought a Mitsubishi MT 372. It wasn't running, so I went through the motions to try and get it to start. It had not fuel so I bled the system and I'm 99% sure its getting fuel now, because I get a rich diesel smelling whit smoke out of the exhaust pipe. However I can't get it to fire. I pull the glow plugs out of the block and run 12 volts (from a battery charger) to them and they light, but when I put them back into the block they don't seem to to get hot. I would love to get this thing running without going to a dealer, does anyone have any ideas. It might crank a little slow, but I put Jumper cables from my truck on it so I'm pretty sure that should be enough juice. Any suggestions????

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-11-06          157702

Without the jumper battery will it turn over? If so does the second battery speed it up? Just trying to be sure the battery in it is not so dead it is still hurting you.

Do you have any way to test if current is getting to the glow plugs? Are you sure you are engaging the glow plugs?

Any reason given to you or history on why it was not running?

Have you checked to be sure the air intake is open, no insect or rodent nests?

Not a question you asked but have you checked the fluids for water? Engine oil and transmission? It probably would be good to replace them to begin with along with filters. You don't want to pump trash.

Glow plus and starting fluid are not good combos. If all else fails, I still find a good pull works. There are those who will say should never be needed or used. If you do, you be sure you have two drivers who know what to expect and are very careful. kt
....

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2008-11-06          157719

got a new battery today will hook it up tomorrow and try it. The glow plugs were working, but I had to by pass the switch, which unfortunately was not working. Still no fire though. I'm going to check the fluids this weekend and see what they look like. I feel like the engine isn't turning fast enough, so hopefully a new battery will help.
The person I bought it from said it ran, but sat for 2-3 years and then wouldn't start. I'm going to really give it a good once over for fluids this weekend. I'll let you know what I find, but let me know if you have any more advice. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-11-06          157721

If I read it correctly it was out of fuel and your put NEW fuel in it. Have you check to be sure there is no water in the fuel? No gelled fuel either? It would still be smart to replace fuel filter.

Hope you well. There are much better minds on this than mind, sure they will chime in. kt ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-11-06          157722

The safety switches I have seen don't let the engine turn over. Guess it is possible you could have one that cuts off the fuel. But you are getting fuel into the cylinder it sounds like.

Some one may holler safety and ok, if I was able to do so safely, I would give it a slow pull. It seems an engine that sits for a while can just be a pain to fire the first time. kt ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-11-07          157731

Kkocher13,

As Kthompson pointed out, I believe you'll need to go through your tractor from top to bottom.

If the tractor was out of fuel before it went into long-term storage, look for "gunk-n-stuff" in the fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel filter, injectors, and injector pump. Also, be sure to inspect the air intake system from one end to the other. Lastly, take a good look at the exhaust system to be sure you don't have a blockage in there somewhere. All of these things can foul up the diesel combustion process.

A thorough cleaning of the fuel system is certainly called for here. Look for rust in the fuel tank while you're at it. (The fuel tank was empty....this is very bad news.)

If you haven't yet tried running a bottle of Sea Foam through the fuel system, that might be a good idea. Sea Foam is a very good product. It will dissolve any solids left behind from the dried diesel fuel.......but it may also plug your fuel filter, and even the injectors, when the gunk finally lets loose. (See the link below.)

You could have quite a project on your hands, but with a little determination and elbow grease, you might have yourself a real good machine when you're done.

Joel ....


Link:   Sea Foam - Diesel Treatment

 
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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
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2008-11-07          157734

I've got fuel all the way up to the injectors, however I don't know if the injectors are dirty. Are they easy to clean and what should i use to clean them. I'm probably just going to take off all the lines and clean everything. I have a rich white smoke coming out of the exhaust. So it leads me to believe fuel is getting into the system, but I don't know if its dripping in because of a sticky injector or being sprayed. I only removed the air cleaner so far I need to take off the whole plenum and check for blockages. Same with the exhaust pipe. Hopefully If I put some good time into it, I can have it running by the end of this weekend.
Also, If I would try to pull start, what gear should I use, Hi or low, and do I need to use the glow plugs at all. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2008-11-07          157735

Kkocher13,

Try using a product like Sea Foam (there are many others to choose from) to clean the injectors. Just follow the instructions at the link I posted earlier.

You may have to physically remove the injectors if you find that the fuel tank is full of gunk-n-stuff.

If you attempt to pull-start the tractor, put it in 4th gear and be ready to depress both the clutch and the brakes as soon as it fires. If you attempt to pull-start it in any lower gear, the rear wheels will just slide.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-11-07          157736

I wouldn't suggest touching the injectors, they're not really a "user serviceable" part.

You are correct, if you have white smoke coming from the exhaust when you crank it over you have fuel in the cylinders. The white smoke is indicative of fuel that is burning, but just barely, sort of the equivalent of smoldering.

This means the engine is not achieving a "stoichiometric" mixture (a big word meaning the right ratio of fuel to air to support combustion).

This is caused by one (or more) of three things, a) you aren't getting enough fuel, or as you touched on, it's coming in one big spurt instead of a fine spray, or b) the engine is not enough air, likely from cranking too slow, or c) the engine is not achieving enough compression cause proper ignition.

Start with the easiest, cranking speed, not necessarily caused by just a weak battery either, a starter on the way out can crank too slow but still appear to be working, this though will cause the starter to draw too many amps, a multi-meter will easily diagnose this.

Next try to bypass the tractors fuel system, spray WD-40 (and lots of it) straight down the intake while cranking it over, if it lights up on that and continues to run, the problem is cranking speed. If it starts on WD-40 but dies when you stop spraying, the problem is in the fuel system.

Best of luck. ....

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2008-11-07          157737

As far as starters go, how many amps should they draw? And if it is drawing to many amps whats my next course of action. New or rebuilt? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-11-07          157738

There's no set rule, in fact, there's enough variance that some good starters actually draw more unloaded, than other ones do loaded. Never mind when they go south.

The easiest way in my experience is to watch the voltage, not the amps. When you crank an engine with a good battery (not boosted, just it's own fully-charged battery) for 15 seconds, the voltage should drop no more than to about 10 volts while cranking, and almost immediately come back to 12.5 volts.

If the voltage while cranking drops below 10 volts, or takes more than about 5 seconds to come back, or does not come fully back, the starter is drawing too much.

If there is a good starter/alternator rebuilder near you, most reasonable size towns have one, just take it in and ask then to "bench test" it for you. It's only a couple of bucks usually. Let the pro's tell you if it's good or not.

New or rebuilt depends on what is the matter with it. Prices have changed in the past few years to, there's lots of big reman outfits now. With some of our turf equipment, particularly the stuff with Kubota or Kohler engines, a re-manufactured exchange starter is cheaper than the typical repair or overhaul used to be.

Best of luck. ....

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2008-11-10          157778

Progress made.......I guess. I took the starter out and got it tested, it was good. I got a new battery, so cranking system should be good. Yet I still think it turns to slow. I sprayed WD-40 down the intake and tried to start it, I got nothing. I'm starting to check things off the list, but does anyone have any more suggestions... ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-11-10          157791

As has already been mentioned, if a diesel has 3 things; fuel, air, and compression, it will start.

Assuming there is nothing serious like a valve stuck open, if you are getting white smoke you are getting 'some' fuel, we don't yet know if it's the right amount.

Since the air is not likely to be the issue, look at the compression. You say the starter checked out ok, so crank speed (which is also related to compression) can be eliminated for now. That leaves the rings as Frank mentioned letting air past and into the crankcase instead of building pressure in the cylinders.

The simplest solution to this is to crank the engine over with the fuel shut off while spraying an oil mist/diesel mixture from something like an undercoating spray gun. After the engine is well oiled down the throat, let it sit for a little while for the diesel / oil combination to soak down in around the rings and hopefully loosen them up.

After the engine has sat this way for something more a few hours, try starting it again.

Bear in mind, it's nearly impossible to flood a diesel the way you can with a gas engine. Don't be afraid to give it LOTS of fuel, straight diesel from an undercoating spray gun or WD-40.

Slowly (~walking speed) dragging the machine in gear will make it crank over a LOT faster than the starter can spin the engine and will be more likely to get it to fire up.

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-11-10          157799

Taking Murf's push- pull-starting theme one step further...you might find the one rear wheel will skid or slip. If it does, I would put it in a high gear and use the clutch until it gets up to speed then let it out. A low gear will really cause the rear wheel(s) to skid due to engine compression.. ....

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eveready299
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3 New Kensington, PA
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2008-11-12          157846

I have a 372 and so does 2 of my neighbors by my camp. I have had a hard time starting since the cold weather set in below 30. I have to hold my glow plugs on for 45 to 60 seconds and give it a little more fuel than usual to get it to start and most of the time it quits and I hold them for another 20 to 30 seconds and then it fires and I slow the throttle down. Both of my neighbors 372's do the same. I used the 200 amp boost on my battery charger before to get it to go but now this works for me.I know a guy that used a die grinder to open up the freeze plug hole to accept a block heater but i'm not willing to try that yet. LOL. No luck here. Maybe i'll try a magnetic one if I need to. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-11-13          157849

everyready, as his has not been run for not sure how long it be more than just the temp, but it probably is not helping him.

Thankfully we don't have your lows so engine heaters here are rare but you may find the link below has one to fit your tractor. There are many others on the web. I think you are wise to stay away from the grinder. :) ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-11-13          157852

I agree with Kenneth's opinion, stay away from the die grinder.

Besides, it takes nothing more than a good knife and a screwdriver to install a heater inline with your rad hose.

Best of luck. ....

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PGBiodiesel
Join Date: Nov 2008
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2008-11-14          157867

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkocher13 | view 157778
Progress made.......Yet I still think it turns too slow.... does anyone have any more suggestions...


I just got my D1850fd, had to pull it(4th gear) to check it out. Seller thought the solenoid was bad. We made the deal, I took it home and started working on fixing the problem.

Had juice everywhere, but when turn the key to start-nothing.
Tapped starter & solenoid-nothing.
Took starter in, they said it was like a new one.
Battery charger on boost-no good. Battery fully charged.
Cleaned battery posts-nothing.
12.5 volts at the starter.
By-passed the ignition switch with a push button - nothing.
By-passed the clutch switch - nothing.
Used screwdriver to activate the solenoid-nothing.
Took starter off again, wire brushed the contact surfaces and bolted it back on - click, click but starter didn't even begin to spin.

Found an old negative battery cable long enough and still in good shape, unhooked the positive cable(battery & starter), connected the replacement hanging out around everything.

EUREKA!! It fired right up.

I bought a new one the right size, snaked it around and in where it was supposed to be, heat shrink tubing at the rub points, new corrosion pads and petroleum jelly on the battery and I won't have to worry about it now for years.

The old one had so much corrosion on the copper wire inside the factory lead clamp and on down into the insulation that it couldn't carry enough amps to do the job. Yet it didn't really look too bad.

Goodluck with yours, it will really feel good when you get it going. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-11-14          157870

PG, sounds like you did a good detective job there. Hope you enjoy your tractor. ....

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2008-11-14          157877

I looked at my battery cables and the negative one looks pretty beat up. When I tell everybody what the tractor is doing and how its turning slow, they all swear its a ground or cable problem. I'm going to run some auxillaries this weekend and see if I get any more turning speed out of the starter. I also haven't tried pull starting it yet. I planned on it last weekend, but the clutch was frozen. I fixed that, so I plan on giving it a pull this weekend. If I can get it to fire I'm 90% sure that I can get the electrical system fixed. I am having a problem with the glow plugs. I have to bypass the switch with 12 volts straight from the battery. I don't think the colder weather is working in my favor either. Hopefully I will have success one way or another this weekend. Thanks for all the tips and advice. I will keep you posted.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2008-11-14          157880

There's a simple way to tell if it's a case of poor connections or bad cables.

Put a known good battery on a set of large gauge booster cables and go straight to the starter itself.

If it cranks faster then start looking at, or replacing, cables to the starter.

Best of luck. ....

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2008-11-15          157896

SUCCESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However I went through hell and High water to get there. I started off this morning with a plan that it must be somewhere in the electrical system. Here is what I did...
Replaced battery cables....nothing
Cleaned all connections.....nothing
Checked voltage to starter...nothing
Checked voltage to ignition switch...nothing
Put it on a 200 amp charger......nothing

At this point I was getting fairly agitated. In desperation or Frustration ( I don't know witch) I slammed the key to the start position. I'm not condoning taking your frustration out on your machines, because 99% of the time it will get you into trouble. I could've snapped the key off and then I would really have been mad. This time I was in the 1%. All the sudden the starter kicked into another gear and turned the engine over fast enough to fire. It died right after that of course. So I slammed the key into the start position and again the starter turned fast enough to start the engine. This time I was able to keep it running.
So it appears after all that work looking at the fuel, air, and electrical system its just a bad ignition switch.

I checked out the rest of the tractor and everything seems to be in working order. I have a little smoke, but the more I ran it the better it got.

My wife the eternal doubter said I was grinning from ear to ear as I was doing donuts in the front yard.

Now for my next question, anybody selling a tiller, brush hog and mower deck for this thing. :)
....

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bigdan120
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3 Yukon Pa
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2009-12-07          167311

Have a mower deck 400.00 ....

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kkocher13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 20 PA
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2009-12-08          167316

What kind of shape is it in? Could you send pictures? send them to kkocher13@hotmail.com ....

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