MF 205-4: Massey Ferguson  -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum and Review MF 205-4: Massey Ferguson -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum

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 11-21-2001, 07:24 Post: 33306
tacoavian



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 MF 205-4

I have recently acquired a MF 205-4..I need some help with cold start troubles.This thing is a "bear" to get started.I have put in a new battery/fresh charged.Checked glow plug operation.Fresh fuel,etc. Nothing seems to help. Suggestions? THANKS,SAM






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 11-21-2001, 07:41 Post: 33307
Brent Pepper



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 MF 205-4

How did you check the glow plugs? Are you sure they are working? When you shut the engine off, is it difficult to restart? Don't use either to try to start it. I know a lot of people do use either, but it is not good for the smaller diesel engines.

Brent






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 11-21-2001, 07:43 Post: 33308
TomG

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Block heaters are good, but I don't really need mine until it gets very cold. Something I'd do is clean the battery terminals and the engine end of the ground cable, and check the starter/solenoid wiring as well. I might even buy a new ground cable in as heavy of gauge as I could get on general principal.

Diesels have to spin fast before they start very well. It doesn't take a very dirty contact to slow the starter a bit. Sometimes people replace ground cables with auto discount store types that are generally too light a gauge for diesels.






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 11-21-2001, 10:08 Post: 33311
tacoavian



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By "cold" start,I mean 1st start of the day. At normal temperatures,say 40 degrees plus.I did try the 55A setting on my charger and I did get a better start.Although I'm not sure this is a good practice...I'll buy a new ground cable and clean all connections.Any other advice?SAM






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 11-21-2001, 12:08 Post: 33313
BillBass



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 MF 205-4

Are you saying that the engine turns over ok, it just doesn't fire off?
You might check your fuel pump pressure. It sounds as though it may be having trouble getting fuel to the cylinders when cold. I have a JD 950 that fires off within 2 seconds of starting cranking, even when cold. And that is without even preheating the fuel (mine has a preheater rather than glow plugs).
It is also possible that your compression is low. Diesels work on the principle of auto ignition of the fuel caused by the high temperatures resulting from the high pressure in the cylinder. If the compression is low, it would be harder to get the temperatures high enough for ignition.






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 11-21-2001, 18:48 Post: 33320
tacoavian



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It turns over fine. Just kinda chugs blowing black smoke then dies.After a few of the glow plug/chugging episodes it will continue to chug then it accelerates and continues to run.When it runs there's minimal smoke.And then just when I increase the engine speed ,it blows black smoke breifly then clears up. After it warms up.It starts quickly each time. THANKS for HELP,SAM






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 11-22-2001, 06:48 Post: 33326
TomG

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I think of cold starts as around 0F. Stating problem around 40F probably indicate something's going on other than common temperature related problems.

Black smoke sometimes indicates restricted air intake. I'd change the air filter and check for other obstructions if there's any doubt about the filter's condition. I wouldn't trust the appearance of a filter. I changed mine after moderate service and accidentally stepped on the old filter. A bunch of sand ran out. The inner pleats were full of sand that was not visible when just looking the filter, and blowing the filter out with low air pressure didn't move it. I wondered how the sand got there, and then realized that loader buckets of sand go back and forth in front of the air intake all the time.

As mentioned, low compression could cause such problems. Several other things that are not too difficult to check but probably require a manual are the valve clearances and the injection pump timing. Several injector problems also might do it, but injector work is a little specialized.

Basically, a diesel shouldn't make black smoke either when starting or on acceleration. I'd describe mine as moderate and gray. A diesel will make black smoke if the fuel is turned up or if it's over-heated, but it doesn't sound like that what's going on here. However, I would note if the engine stays within a normal temperature range. Not hot enough is a problem as well.

Overall, there's a bunch of things to check the might be the problem, and maybe the tractor needs the equivalent of a tune-up to narrow down things a bit. You can’t really tell if the starter system is a problem until there is certainty that the engine works properly. On the other hand, the air filter is a cheap easy fix, so hope for that explanation.






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 11-22-2001, 10:40 Post: 33339
tacoavian



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I will buy a new air filter ASAP.Which manual is the best to get? I have seen several variations on the internet.I replaced the battery cables with #2 gauge and cleaned all contacts.This seems to have helped. But, I still would like to check everything out.Like the valve adjustments.Injector timing,etc. Do you you know any web site which might have the information I need??THANKS,SAM






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 11-23-2001, 06:58 Post: 33353
TomG

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I have a repair manual from New Holland. There are several sites such as yesterday's tractors and SSB that handle manuals but I haven't seen them. I do know that my factory repair manual seem to be intended for factory trained mechanics. Basic mechanical knowledge is assumed, and the manual often isn't especially useful in guiding novice mechanics through diagnostic procedures. However, somebody with a bit of background (such as myself) usually can figure it out. The manual does give specs, testing, adjustment and disassembly procedures, which is what are really needed. Some people say that having a parts manual also is good. I don't have one, and I have gotten tripped up a couple of times when trying to order specialty hardware parts by telephone. Repair manuals don't always give detailed exploded diagrams for all assemblies. Anyway, you might look around. Factory manuals are good, but some others may be better as teachers.

I guess you're pretty new to diesel tractors, so I'll note a couple of cold starting things (cold means 15F and lower). It's good to crack the hand throttle 1/2 to 3/4 and then back it off when the engine catches. That acts sort of like a diesel choke. Diesels aren't 'ground' like gas engines to start them. A diesel catches quickly if it's going to so fairly short bursts on the starter (with a bit more pre-heater in between) are better. A lot of cranking ends up diluting the engine oil with fuel. If it gets very cold, use of multi-grade or synthetic hydraulic and engine oil helps the starter spin faster and therefore start easier. Use of #1 diesel, which has a lower flash point than #2, also helps starting a bit. If it's a cold climate, either #1 fuel or an additive with an anti-gel compound should be used. Some summer blend #2 diesel may gel at temperatures just below freezing. The fuel may still flow, but the fuel filter may clog up with wax crystals and give you some of the symptoms described.

Diesels shouldn't be worked without a good warm-up so it's good to idle them until the temperature start coming up into the operating range. However, diesels don't warm up at slow idle speeds; in fact they may cool-down with prolonged idles around 800 rpm. I warm up mine at 1500 rpm and usually idle at 1000 - 1200 rpm. Especially after hard runs, I cool it down at 800 rpm for awhile.






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 11-23-2001, 07:28 Post: 33357
Art White



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I just took one of those in trade last month and he is right about the starting. The customer had this unit to the dealers every fall and to no avail was he able to help it. The glow plugs work as good as any, the engine gets fuel, but I don't believe it gets enough to have a successful cold start without excessive cranking. We have seen other engines that also have like problems or caracteristics. Unfortunately during development not all conditions are taken into consideration when building or designing equipment. This is not the first one of these I've seen like this, the three cylinder versions do start somewhat better but not a lot, it does seem lame to say it's the nature of the beast but it is.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Massey Ferguson Forum

Thread 33306 Filter by Poster:
Art White 2 | BillBass 1 | Brent Pepper 1 | Smahler 1 | tacoavian 5 | TomG 5 |




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