Go Bottom Go Bottom

Ever use urea

View my Photos
SOB1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 15 New Jersey
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-14          37416

I just applied some urea to my fields. The week before, I overseeded them with a pasture mix. Any idea how long it should take to see some lil green things?? Does urea really help make the stuff grow better???

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-15          37427

Guess I'll stick my neck out about something most people know more about than I do. Maybe I'll learn something.

I think urea is a nitrogen source. I remember that higher priced fertilizers often were advertised as 'urea based.' I think urea breaks down into usable nitrogen more slowly than ammonia sources, which is often desirable.

Whether urea on its own is good for over-seeding or not depends on soil conditions and the particular crop. Sources of other elements in addition to nitrogen are desirable for balanced growth. Excessive nitrogen promotes excess top-growth and may produce inadequate root development. I'm guessing that grass seedlings can use a lot of nitrogen, so straight urea might be pretty good.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-15          37438

I want to personally thank you for putting the urea on your fields and not in your tires as ballast. When I saw the heading I thought.. Here we go again. Tom is right. Urea is a complex form of nitrogen. When you are feeling bad on of the test the doctors will do is called BUN. It stands for blood urea nitrogen, a byproduct of protein metabolization. A low number means your kidneys are working well. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-17          37556

Notes from Penn State Univ:
"A dry material in granularly or prilled form, urea-N rapidly hydrolyzes to NH4+. Used for direct application,in mixed fertilizers,and in liquid nitrogen. N at application is present as urea-N. Within 1 day after application, about 66% of urea-N is hydrolyzed to ammonia-N; all within 1 week.
When not incorporated, significant N loss by volatilization can occur until approximately 0.5 inch of rain has fallen. Not recommended for starter use.
Broadcast (incorporated) or sidedress."

So basically my understanding of urea is: organic compound
that is the principal end product of nitrogen metabolism in most mammals ... -- does this mean we're talking about crystallized urine ????

Anyway, my guess is that urea is too "hot" for most grass fertilizing applications. Commercial grass fertilizers even the cheap junk will dissolve over a period of time to prevent burning the grass. I've burned enough dead spots in my fields by excess application (i.e. spills) to understand that grass can't take a heavy infusion of nitrogen.
jim ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-18          37593

Crystallized urine is uncommon in humans but common in male house cats. In small felines the tolerance stack consisting of tiny urinary openings, high Ph, low urine volume and high protein diet can combine to plug them up and kill them.
If your question is “Do I have nitrogen compounds in my blood and urine?” then the answer is yes, but a healthy set of kidneys will hold the BUN, creatinine and uric acid levels to very low numbers, and if we drink lots of water these materials will not precipitate into crystalline form in our bladders.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-19          37652

Mark, i was attempting humor in my comment about crystallized urine...
jim ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-20          37659

Tag, I'm it.
Even my wife sez i should relax more. But don't feed your cats too much protein anyway. Mark ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-21          37683

I think it is a case of what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.
Urea application is common for corn where high nitrogen levels are needed. I have not heard about urea application on grass. In general, most grasses will burn with the application of urea (established grass). The urea will do 2 things add nitrogen good and make the soil more basic, good or bad depending on the soils original condition.
Did you get the soil tested before you added the urea?
Most commercial fertilizers contain some urea but are slower release than straight urea or liquid urea. Even with slower release fertilizer you can burn grass. Even animal base urea will burn the grass if applied to heavily. (Less beer and use different trees) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-21          37684

Hey. I got that one right away. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-21          37685

Glad you caught that one. I still had to explain it to my wife.
We all gain trivial knowledge from the discussin even when we miss the point.
For instance I now know why the male cat urine smells so bad, when the neighbours cats pee on the welcome mat and all I need to get rid of them is to feed them a high protein diet. Does force feeding soy products work? Or am I missing the point also? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
NHnewt
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-22          37695

The cat thing is true. One day I noticed our male cat had peed all over the house. Just littel dribbles here and there. My first thought was to feed him to my neighbor's dog, but instead I brought him down to the vet, who gave me some expensive medicine, and some even more expensive prescription cat food. I had been feeding him Imes (sp?), which I thought was the good stuff, but apparently it was only cloging him up. So end result is a happy healthy but very expensive cat, and monthly trips to the vet to buy this expensive food.

I still drink beer and pee on the trees.... ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-04-22          37700

You got away pretty cheap. Our Siamese required surgery, basically the feline version of a sex change operation. He had been around just long enough to be part of the household but he wasn't so old that we felt right about putting him down. When it was all said and done we got nearly 18 years out of the knothead, and got to watch him kick butt on a couple of neighborhood dogs along the way.
If memory serves one of the critical components is not just the protein but also the ash content. We found a brand of cat food with lower numbers at the feed store that was cheaper than the prescription diet. Check the labels for the numbers.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
mikeB
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 37 CT
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-22          37703

sob1
Depending on conditions, I would say you should see some kind of growth in about two weeks. all the comments in the repies were true. But my expeirience has taught me a few things.

Urea will burn grass if applied too heavily. It will also volitolize if not incorporated into the soil, (rain, tiilage). Urea spread on top is a gamble. I have used urea on my lawn for several years, at low rates, and I always watch the weather. I spread as close to a rain as I can get, and I have had no trouble. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
SOB1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 15 New Jersey
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-22          37712

Well boys... as luck would have it, right after I finished applying the urea, we had some great rainstorms, which dissolved the pellets. I had spoken to several different people with regard to urea. Ready??? the county extension guy who said to apply 100lbs/acre to the guy where i bought it who said apply 125/ acre, to the gal I'm gettin my steers from who said 50lbs/ acre, to the old farmer who I'm buyin my grain from who said 200lbs/acre.

So.... I wound up applying 1- 80lb bag/ acre or so.. Anyway's .. it looks very green! I'm just hoping that the $400 bucks I spent on pasture mix comes up. Some of it got into the soil for sure, but some was still on top. Expensive birdseed? or will it settle in also?
BTW, my soil sample came in at 6.4.

SOB ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
mikeB
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 37 CT
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-04-23          37740

Thats a good start, the ph is almost perfect, sounds good so far. the 80lbs is fine. one thing about fertilizer, if you need more you can put it on...if you have applied too much you cant get rid of it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
turfman02
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1 midwest
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-10-30          44440

Straight urea has a count of 46-0-0. This means that 46% of the material is nitrogen. In most cases you should not apply more than 1lbs. of nitrogen per 1000 sq. ft.. This is especially true with straight urea. There are other drawbacks to using this product in grass. If you have any wetlands or waterways this product leachs very easily as it is very soluable. It also will not last very long. one other drawback is it will cause a great deal of topgrowth without much root developement. I think you would be better served if you were to use something else. I know that it is cheap but you pay for it in the long run.

The proper amount per acre if you are still going to use this is somewhere around 90#'s per acre. Hope this helps this late!! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-06          56990

I agree, some 12-24-24 or 20-20-20 is a pretty strong mix for grass but would give you an all round better uniform growth of vegetation. Is use the 12-24-24 and put down about 500 lbs. per acre as far as grass, it is also very reasonably priced at the COOP. Last I bought was around $5.50 a 40 lb. bag. They will give a discount if you buy a ton or more. Lots of fun to spread with a push spreader if you don't have a big spreader. You also may want to test the soil to see if you need lime. Usually a ton to the acre. Don't forget to airate too! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
homedad5acre
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 103 N.E. PA.
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-06          56994

I was on the snow removal team at the local hospital and we used it to melt ice & snow in sensative areas where salt would kill everything. Come spring the grass grew like crazy. That was about all us city boys new about it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-08          57111

The problem with urea or any other high ammoniacal fertilizer is that NH4 is largely not used by plants. Only the NH3 is rapidly used and absorbed by the plants system. A bacterial conversion of the NH4 to NH3 is required. A rudimentary chmeical equation shows that it leaves a H atom free in the process, which bond to Carbon in the soil which every one knows forms acids. Acidic soil is not nice to root systems. They tend to destroy and maim other wise health-destined plants. Volitization occurs in these high ammonia fertilizers. Also N leaches readily from the soil because of its negative charge, which means much of the "HIGH" N content is lost and never recovered in the first rain storm. These fertilizers tend to quite working in cool temperatures as well due to the fact that the converting bacteria slow down around 60 degrees F. Examples of High NH4 fertilizers: Urea,DAP, Ammonia Nitrate.

Look for HIGH NH3 fertilizers. These fertilizers will not contribute to soil acidity. They also will work in cooler weather because the form of N is readily absorbed by the plant. Products they do not leach and usually have other valuable minerals attatched to nourish the plants. Examples: Calcium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrate (aka soda, bulldog soda). Especially in the use of calcium nitrate, it improves sturdiness of plants because calcium is used in cell wall construction. Plants will be sturdy and green. Ammoniacal fertilizers can lead plants weak and leggy although they will be green. Calcium nitrate typically is around 16% nitrogen, but is as effective as ammonia nitrate at growing green plants. Especially effective for calcium consuming plants such as collards, turnips, peppers, mustard, spinach, brocolli, tobacco, and yes, grass. Remember, much of the ammonia is leached any way before it can be converted to NH3. Although not as easy to be found, most feed and seed stores can order calcium nitrate and have within a week. Sodium nitrate is similar in greenability but not quite as desirable because plants typically consume only small amounts of sodium and leave left over salt in the soil. Works great on corn!

Grass typically consumes fertilizer in a 4-1-2 (N,P,K) ratio. This makes a 16-4-8 fertilizer great for grass for starter and spring green up. A 1-2-3 (5-10-15) ratio is best however for root growth in the late summer and early fall(pre frost). Other ratio fertilizers on grass are pretty much wasted and may promote rapid growth of undesirable weeds because other plants use different ratios of fertiliizers. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-08          57115

Great post Mark! I definitely learned a thing or 3. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 875 Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-19          58017

In regards to all the different numbers you have received as far as amounts to apply you might consider a soil test. Theese are isually pretty cheap ($10 ish) at your local soil conservation district office or the appropriate branch of a State University. Here Michigan State does it. You get back a pretty slick print out telling you what to use in what amounts. Fall as well as spring. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58085

With due respect to Doc, soil testing for nitrogen content is not recommended because the results will be irrevelent, mainly for two reasons: Nitrogen leaches quickly, varying in amount available from week to week, depending on rain, weather, temperature and various other complicated factors. The second reason is that all plants consume nitrogen in different ratios from species to species and family to family. The only way to "know" exactly is to do tissue analysis of plant tissue. This tests exactly what levels are present in the plant. These levels have been quantified and are as detailed as complete blood work on a human. However, why waste $30 on tissue sampling when a good eye, common sense and a little research will give you a satisfactory result. Over fertilization is rarely a problem, especially in backfilled or longterm bare soil areas. Unless the grass is for a turf farm or some critical other area, sampling doesn't pay. But if course, if the Einstein side of you can't resist the accumalation of undigestible facts, go for it. But unless you have acquired extensive training in the basics of plant science, it would be hard to put into application the facts that are spewed forth by any type of scientific sampling. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58089

Well Mark L, you finally said something I disagree with. Soil sampling is important and can save you money, in the long run. You sure don't need to over fertilize. Besides wasting money on nutrients you don't need and are paying for, the excess runs off into streams. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58090

I think that we may still be on the same page. In large, commercial production areas whether it be hay, turf, row crop, or commodity production on many acres, definately it helps and is required. However, I was referring to a small area that is non commercial in nature making no economic sense to soil test. There are general guidelines for fertization and establishment of grass that are published by many cooperative extension offices throughout the country. In fact I live in the town that is responsible for developing 90% of all bermuda and southern turf grasses in the US. As a student studying plant science here, I worked for the experiment station here, learning much from the gurus and futher developing my knowledge in agronomy classes. I have soil tested hundreds of times in my experience. I use it and have profitted from it. Tissue sampling as well. However, Billy, standard soil tests do not provide N information because as you said, it washes away. A soil test cannot accurately assess Nitrogen levels in the soil because it is so highly mobile. The reasons for soil testing have nothing to do with monitoring for overfertilization but for just the opposite, monitoring defeciencies. In fact the truth is that the nutrients that can be monitored accurately by soil testing are relatively stable and immobile in the soil, able to build up without significant leaching. The only time P and K move significantly through the soil is if the soil washes with it. This is largely true for the secondary and micronutrients in the majority of the soil classifications found in North America. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58092

Nitrogen enters the ground from rain and is naturally produced from NO2 in the air during a thunder storm. Organic material from plants also contains nitrogen and it is slow released as the material decays in the soil. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 875 Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58099

Mark L, I believe what I said was that a soil test might be beneficial. Not test the soil for nitrogen. Clearly you have a bit more experience with soil than the average bear, although I would dissagree with you on the value of a $9.00 soil test from the state University. True enough you do get a lot of unneeded info but if you let them know what you want to plant they send out a program or recommended fertilizers for both spring and fall. This can be very helpfull to someone new especially as the fellow above was told several different amounts to apply. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58104

Well, I think I understand your point Doc. But I have seen people get these tests back and freak because all of their readings don't peg the scale. The truth is in this case a little knowledge puffs up. Interpreting scientific data in these cases is not absolute. There are recommendations that are made in the reports that must be applied sometimes in various ways not up to a new comer.

Also, lets just think about the inexperience of someone pulling soil samples. Many people pull a plug of soil from one problem spot and put it in a bag. NOT a good thing to do for good results. The correct method assumes that one sample bag is representative of several acres. This means that a sample must be random and in several locations per acre. Then samples must be mixed thoroughly in a bucket and then and only then should the representative sample be drawn for the bucket and placed in a bag. OH, lets not forget the possibility of cross contamination of a sample by using a galvanized container(ZN and Fe) or one possibly that previously held fertilizer or in some cases manure. Think about it. Small timers would benefit from advice and gentle experience than face the challenge of performing a test like this and then be left to figure out its practical applications. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Misenplace
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 875 Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-21          58107

I do see your point yet I do not completely agree. It seems 6 0f one 1/2 dozen the other. The fellow above was haveing difficulty getting good advice or it varied so much the cost of fertilizer out weighs the cost of a test, easily. I guess I just dont know too many people who can look at the soil and just instantly tell me what I need. I'm sure there are those who can. I just dont know them. The soil conservation districts here give out base hand books with directions and sample bags. I would think that most would be able to handle such a simple task but your point is certainly valid and there certainly are those who do not take the time to find out how to take the test properly or fail to understand the results, but then there are those who just use the wrong products or none at all. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Ever use urea

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-22          58122

Sorry Mark L. I thought we were talking about fertilizer in general. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


  Go Top Go Top

Share This
Share This







Member Login